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Lobster Roll

signature-less, now and forever
Member
Sep 24, 2019
34,369
Imagine playing The Outer Worlds and completely missing the subtle-as-a-brick-to-the-face, bleak, post-capitalistic world where everybody and everything is owned by corporations, and then complaining that the loading screens are also owned by in-universe corporations.
 
Oct 25, 2017
341
My main takeaway from this thread is that a surprising number of people don't know the difference between the 1890s and the 1950s. Spoiler: a lot of things happened between those two decades.
 
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andresmoros

Member
Oct 29, 2017
2,468
Houston
Should have been more clear but I didn't want to make the thread title too long. But yeah, I'm not talking about actual ads for real-world products, but in-game, in-universe ads. Like this:

N3qCy9Y.jpg




I guess. I don't like them personally. They were cool the first few times. BioShock still looks incredible. But I don't get the appeal of shoving them in a game seemingly for the sake of it.

And what a weird thing to catch on. Imagine someone who doesn't play games seeing how many games use that art style. "Huh, guess gamers really love '50s style advertisements."



Again, it's not that I don't like them, just that they've been used to death. Including them just feels creatively bankrupt at this point.
If this is an example of the posters in the Outer World, then its very different from what you see in Bioshock. Different art styles, Typography and design.
 

Governergrimm

Member
Jun 25, 2019
6,550
It sounds l
I like Retro-futurism.

That said, the ads in The Outer Worlds are fairly generic or low quality. Maybe that was intentional on some level, but it meant they were pretty uninteresting.

There's no reason the aesthetic can't be done well.
I think the "low quality" is them trying to adhere as close as possible to the style used by the posters they aped. It was a decision to replicate not reimagine.
 

Governergrimm

Member
Jun 25, 2019
6,550
Using that time frame as a backdrop is a perfect juxtaposition of unbridled consumerism with WW level of propaganda. As others have said there really aren't that many games that use that art style. One thing they do all have in common is that they are propaganda posters, which is very fitting for a game set in a repressive bureaucracy.
 

megalowho

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,562
New York, NY
The Outer Worlds tying its aesthetic design so closely to Fallout was a disappointment and doesn't feel fresh anymore, even if there's thematic justifications that can be made for why it was chosen.

On the other hand, a game like Tacoma could have easily used this visual style as a crutch given their dev history and hyper-corporate sci-fi setting, but what they came up with felt much more original and organic to the world while still paying homage and nailing the themes they were going for.
 
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CHC

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,246
It's a tired aesthetic sure. I think juxtaposition is often used in an amateurish way. Like "oh look a horribly violent massacre with happy music playing! iSnT tHaT pSyChO XD ?!"

Didn't really bother me too much in Outer Worlds though because it was so aggressively cartoony and did not take itself seriously at all. They didn't act like they were being super original or high brow, it was just campy goofiness.

Also I think Prey was quite different too. I never felt like they were using the ads or corporatism in a way that felt "old timey," more just like a visual callback to the space race era.
 

MrNewVegas

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,718
Fuck. I was a big fan of the aesthetics in Tomorrowland. I had no idea they ripped off Bioshock. Even my fave game too? Fallout New Vegas? Here I was thinking these were actual stylized takes from the 1900s but they all are just stolen tales from Bioshock. Mind is blown.
 

Dogui

Member
Oct 28, 2017
8,809
Brazil
I wouldn't count 3 video game series as used to death.

This thread looks like those "When devs will stop doing this Souls like stuff?" of aesthetics.
 

Infcabbage

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,578
Portland, Oregon
I don't think they fit very well in The Outer Worlds, but I don't mind it. Its just weird. At least with fallout it sort of makes sense, even though not really they do give a justification.
 

Andalusia

Alt Account
Member
Sep 26, 2019
620
Why do some people have a hard time accepting that sometimes people like things they don't like?
 

Jebusman

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,086
Halifax, NS
Bioshock is mostly Art Deco, incorporating some H.G.Wells and Jules Verne esque machinery. A bit of a mishmash of late 19th century and early 20th century design.

Fallout is more Googie/Populuxe, the space inspired, neon colored look of the 50s and 60s, and starting from Fallout 3 a more heavy lean into the pop elements of that era. Fallout feels like a world that was "stuck in time", and whose plot insures they are "stuck in time" when nuclear war essentially hard stops human progress.

Outer Worlds definitely takes its inspiration from the same era but maybe not as heavily on the pop elements. A little more industrial, which given it's plot justification of "capitalism gone amok", fits compared to the artist inspired designs of Populuxe. It also feels like a universe that at the very least is "progressing", as the colonies themselves aren't terribly old.

I get why it's easy to look at it all in a similar fashion as "retrofuturism", but they all pull from various and different sources.
 

Ehoavash

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 28, 2017
7,238
yeah i'm sick of this retro future shit too.

its everywhere....pls stop
 

Prine

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
15,724
Tongue in cheek, self-deprecating ads are part of game design and can be used to enrich the universe your engaged in, I get that If they're not done in a clever or nuanced way it can have the opposite effect, but if done right I think they add alot to the game.
 

Slayven

Never read a comic in his life
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
93,109
The retro future 50s stuff is played out. I would to see a game take on a different decade like the 70s and 80s. By 80s I don't mean synch pop and neon colors., other shit was going on
 

LavaBadger

Member
Nov 14, 2017
4,988
It sounds l
I think the "low quality" is them trying to adhere as close as possible to the style used by the posters they aped. It was a decision to replicate not reimagine.

I agree, there's intention there.

But whenever an attempt is made to copy or emulate something that wasn't very good in the first place, I think you have to recognize when what you've made ends up being similarly uninteresting.

Someone earlier posted a side-by-side of the inspiration for one poster with the in game poster, and when you see that you can say, "Oh, they copied it accurately", but does that make it interesting when you're looking at it by itself in game? Does the alien monster carrying the guy remain interesting when you're seeing it for the dozenth time? I don't think it does. Much as many of the propoganda posters of that era end up looking bland and one-note, so too does much of the art in the game.

Intentional as it might be, I think it wasn't a decision that pays off in the scope of the game (Especially when the game doesn't effectively deliver many if any of it's potential messages around these ideas).
 

night814

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 29, 2017
15,040
Pennsylvania
I honestly thought the title was about actual IRL ads getting put in games, like between respawns and shit.

For what its worth, Shadowbane, an MMO, actually had ads play during your respawn after death when it went F2P. Community fucking hated it and went mental over it.
Yeah I though this might be about SFV or something that has actual real ads.
 

Governergrimm

Member
Jun 25, 2019
6,550
I agree, there's intention there.

But whenever an attempt is made to copy or emulate something that wasn't very good in the first place, I think you have to recognize when what you've made ends up being similarly uninteresting.

Someone earlier posted a side-by-side of the inspiration for one poster with the in game poster, and when you see that you can say, "Oh, they copied it accurately", but does that make it interesting when you're looking at it by itself in game? Does the alien monster carrying the guy remain interesting when you're seeing it for the dozenth time? I don't think it does. Much as many of the propoganda posters of that era end up looking bland and one-note, so too does much of the art in the game.

Intentional as it might be, I think it wasn't a decision that pays off in the scope of the game (Especially when the game doesn't effectively deliver many if any of it's potential messages around these ideas).
That, I will agree to disagree with you on. The game most certainly delivers on the corporate overlords ideas. So far as it failing to be interesting that is entirely dependant upon the person. So what can I say but opinions vary.
 

EJS

The Fallen
The Fallen
Oct 31, 2017
9,186
Honestly, I would be surprised if developers are the ones making the call on that. I am sure a requirement was written that directly speaks to that.
 

Imran

Member
Oct 24, 2017
6,585
I assume Outer Worlds specifically is a reaction to Fallout changing Pip Boy from "This represents how corporations see you as disposable but put a cartoon face on it" to "This is just a mascot character yaaaay!"
 

Pancracio17

â–˛ Legend â–˛
Avenger
Oct 29, 2017
18,771
I wish these games would actually parody modern advertisement instead of these old timey ads. Would be more fitting, especially for a futuristic game like outer worlds.
 
Dec 31, 2017
1,727
It would be nice if late 80's and early 90's imagery started getting leaned into a little more.

The worn out VHS look. The unironic, earnest jingles everywhere.






All the bangers that came from cartoon intros.
90's videogame & mens magazines.
 

Wamb0wneD

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
18,735
Ah yes, because flying around the universe or battling your way through post-apocalypse Boston, fighting aliens, mutants, and robots with an array of sci-fi weaponry is a little hard to swallow unless the experience is grounded by a bunch of in-universe posters using a very specific art style popular in the US in the 1950s.
One of the main narrative themes of the game is rampant capitalism. These posters invoke a setting where everything was prospering, ads that sell the inhabitants of that world the capitalistic dream.

You act like they are there for no reason lol.
 

Linde

Banned
Sep 2, 2018
3,983
i personally dont like the style and think it's super overplayed
but they can do what they want

i thought this would be about something more significant lol
 

Basileus777

Member
Oct 26, 2017
9,202
New Jersey
Outer Worlds did it because the entire marketing push of the game was centered on trying to lull in Fallout fans. They were successful in doing so despite making a game that is neither especially good nor all that much like Fallout.
 

Valcrist

Tic-Tac-Toe Champion
Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,703
OP, do you not know what the game is about? Those loading screens are directly related to the overall narrative...
 

Van Bur3n

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
26,089
Maybe someone with a better understanding of art history would point out how the art styles used for posters in BioShock and Prey and Fallout are actually from completely different schools of design

They are. Albeit, The Outer Worlds has a good mix of periods in its artwork. The same can actually be said of BioShock as well. Fallout is probably the only one that is the most consistent with the styles for which the franchise replicates. Prey I have not played.

But generalizing it all as "1950s retro" would be incorrect, which is simply a result of pure ignorance on the subject, as you pointed out.

yeah i'm sick of this retro future shit too.

its everywhere....pls stop

Just TOW, BioShock, Prey and Fallout. A whopping four franchises, which all have different styles to begin with. Yes, indeed, it is everywhere. We cannot escape it.
 
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Niosai

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,925
Keep in mind that The Outer Worlds was clearly Obsidian making something that would connect with the Fallout audience. The retro future 50s ads make sense in that context, and I don't see why people would argue against it as it fit in with the whole evil corporation theme. As far as it being used more widely, it depends on the game.
Fallout executed the whole "ironic dystopia" thing really well with the ads. I think it's just games trying to capture that. It's a hell of a lot more interesting than bland minimal futuristic ads.
 

XaviConcept

Art Director for Videogames
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
4,907
Who is laughing who out of which room? Devs are kicking other devs out of rooms? This is very confusing
 

King_Moc

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,126
The game is a parody of unchecked capitalism, and you think there shouldn't be adverts in it?
 

Titanpaul

Member
Jan 2, 2019
5,008
They match the tone of the gamevery well. I don't understand the issue here. They did a good job.
 

The Adder

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,107
because they're thematically fitting?
They don't fit Outer Worlds thematically, though. The colonies were founded in our future, which means culture should be a futuristic version of a futuristic version of modern times. Or at least a futuristic version of modern culture. Not the future of the 1950s. It makes sense in Fallout (the bombs dropped in the 50s and culture was cobbled together from 50s era culture) and in Bioshock. Outer Worlds it's just a choice the devs made for their world (because they're Obsidian and it's just a clear spiritual successor to Fallout) but it isn't really justified in universe beyond "that's the way it is".
 
OP
OP
Clay

Clay

Member
Oct 29, 2017
8,113
One of the main narrative themes of the game is rampant capitalism. These posters invoke a setting where everything was prospering, ads that sell the inhabitants of that world the capitalistic dream.

You act like they are there for no reason lol.

For like the third or fourth time, Outer Worlds just made me think about this. I don't have a huge issue with that game in particular, though I do think it's a little odd they brought this one thing over from Fallout when the rest of the game's aesthetic is really different.

What's weirder to me is games like Dead Space that don't have the same thematic reasons for including the style.

The game is a parody of unchecked capitalism, and you think there shouldn't be adverts in it?

That's not what I'm saying at all.
 

ILikeFeet

DF Deet Master
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
61,987
They don't fit Outer Worlds thematically, though. The colonies were founded in our future, which means culture should be a futuristic version of a futuristic version of modern times. Or at least a futuristic version of modern culture. Not the future of the 1950s. It makes sense in Fallout (the bombs dropped in the 50s and culture was cobbled together from 50s era culture) and in Bioshock. Outer Worlds it's just a choice the devs made for their world (because they're Obsidian and it's just a clear spiritual successor to Fallout) but it isn't really justified in universe beyond "that's the way it is".
it's fitting because the rest of the world is styled in the same 1950's aesthetic. consistency is all that's necessary
 

The Adder

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,107
My main takeaway from this thread is that a surprising number of people don't know the difference between the 1890s and the 1950s. Spoiler: a lot of things happened between those two decades.
This is both accurate and ehhh... In terms of advertising aesthetics there are a ton of similarities. The 50s were very much applying tried and true advertising tactics and aesthetics to modern technology. There were certainly differences, but not as stark as, say, the 50s and only 20 years later in the 70s.

But you're still correct. Though that is beside the main point.
 

The Adder

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,107
it's fitting because the rest of the world is styled in the same 1950's aesthetic. consistency is all that's necessary
I repeat:
but it isn't really justified in universe beyond "that's the way it is".
It's not consistent. That the setting looks this way is inconsistent with the background of the game. It's just an aesthetic choice the developers made regardless of how it squared with the narrative. Which is fine, but you can't wave away criticism of that choice with "it fits the theme."

EDIT: Shoot. Thought someone else had posted between mine.
 

QuinchoOsito

Member
Oct 10, 2018
545
Other people have pointed this out here, but the Outer Worlds isn't even doing the 1950s like Fallout, it's doing the turn of the century robber baron era. In the alternate timeline of The Outer Worlds, McKinley was never assassinated, so Teddy Roosevelt never came to power and never enacted any antitrust legislation. Therefore the rampant capitalism in The Outer Worlds is explicitly referring to that turn of the century era.
 

Neiteio

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,130
I'm replaying Alien Isolation (it looks incredible on Switch), and these sort of ads are in that game too.
 
Oct 25, 2017
341
They don't fit Outer Worlds thematically, though. The colonies were founded in our future, which means culture should be a futuristic version of a futuristic version of modern times. Or at least a futuristic version of modern culture. Not the future of the 1950s. It makes sense in Fallout (the bombs dropped in the 50s and culture was cobbled together from 50s era culture) and in Bioshock. Outer Worlds it's just a choice the devs made for their world (because they're Obsidian and it's just a clear spiritual successor to Fallout) but it isn't really justified in universe beyond "that's the way it is".

Fallout and The Outer Worlds are actually using retro-futurism in the exact same way (given that the same people are responsible for both games, this is arguably a failure of creativity): to evoke a historical era that's relevant to the theme of the game. Fallout evokes the 50s because the game is about the ramifications of nuclear war, the failure of states to avert it, and the dangers of scientific paternalism. In the Fallout universe the bombs didn't drop in the 50s, they dropped in 2077. There is no good justification in the setting for why things are so 50sish, it's just a creative choice.

Similarly, The Outer Worlds evokes the US Gilded Age, which ended more or less around the turn of the century. It does so because the game is about inequality and corporatism run amok, which were also defining features of the Gilded Age. Just like in Fallout, there's no good justification in the setting for why things are so 1890sish, it's just a thing they're doing to re-enforce the themes of the game.

I think the reason that the use of retro-futurism in The Outer Worlds arguably fails where Fallout succeeds is that in order to evoke an era in people minds, people have to have at least some knowledge about that era. People generally get the 50s, so referring back to the 50s works. Just from this thread alone, it's clear that people don't get (or are even aware of) the Gilded Age. They don't even recognize the design elements that The Outer Worlds is using to evoke it as being from that era, never mind what drawing a comparison to the Gilded Age might mean. I'm not sure what the takeaway is here, except maybe don't overestimate your audience.
 

Strings

Member
Oct 27, 2017
31,413
Have you ever tried to laugh someone out of a room? It's a lot harder than it sounds.
 

Pyro

God help us the mods are making weekend threads
Member
Jul 30, 2018
14,505
United States
The whole retro-futurist stuff is getting old, it's why I don't plan on playing The Outer Worlds.