Why aren't devs laughed out of the room when they suggest incorporating old-timey ads in their game?

[Clay]

I've been playing the Outer Worlds for the past few days and while I've been loving it, I'm surprised to see all the ads and loading screens in an art style I feel like I've seen dozens of times before. Did BioShock use up the industry's collective creativity? Maybe someone with a better understanding of art history would point out how the art styles used for posters in BioShock and Prey and Fallout are actually from completely different schools of design, but to me they all have the same vintage feel.

It blows me away that games are still being made with this played out aesthetic. So much of the Outer Worlds IS really creative. I love the dialogue, characters, and art design outside of the cliched posters and load screens. Which makes those tired aspect all the more bewildering. Why incorporate a visual design that's been used to death?

 

[ProstatePuncher]

I honestly thought the title was about actual IRL ads getting put in games, like between respawns and shit.

For what its worth, Shadowbane, an MMO, actually had ads play during your respawn after death when it went F2P. Community fucking hated it and went mental over it.

 

[Blackage]

People like them.

The developers like them.

Therefore they make it into games.

 

[5taquitos]

I feel you OP, I saw those Outer Worlds loading screens and immediately rolled my eyes that we were doing that retrofuturism thing again.

 

[ILikeFeet]

because they're thematically fitting?

 

[GalvoAg]

I like them and it tends to make the worlds more believable for me.

 

[Qwark]

Do you have examples? I haven't played Outer Worlds, but I generally like old-timey style.

 

[finalflame]

People generally like it. It probably tests well. Someone in charge of those decisions (producers, likely) think they're cool. Whatever the reason, their tastes differ from yours and that explains why they are still in games despite the fact that you do not personally like them.

 

[Mobu]

boomer producers like them

 

[YaBish]

The art nouveau style present in Bioshock and other games is meant to convey a sense of wealth. In shorthand it means an abundance of capitalism.

It's a quick and dirty way in those games to communicate the inherent greed and corruption of their oligarchical societies.

 

[Seda]

For what it's worth, these sorts of pseudo-ads were how the game was teased before it was even announced. It probably wasn't a suggested incorporation and more a conceptual aesthetic choice made early on.

 

[Clay]

I honestly thought the title was about actual IRL ads getting put in games, like between respawns and shit.

For what its worth, Shadowbane, an MMO, actually had ads play during your respawn after death when it went F2P. Community fucking hated it and went mental over it.

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Should have been more clear but I didn't want to make the thread title too long. But yeah, I'm not talking about actual ads for real-world products, but in-game, in-universe ads. Like this:

People like them.

The developers like them.

Therefore they make it into games.

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I guess. I don't like them personally. They were cool the first few times. BioShock still looks incredible. But I don't get the appeal of shoving them in a game seemingly for the sake of it.

And what a weird thing to catch on. Imagine someone who doesn't play games seeing how many games use that art style. "Huh, guess gamers really love '50s style advertisements."

People generally like it. It probably tests well. Someone in charge of those decisions (producers, likely) think they're cool. Whatever the reason, their tastes differ from yours and that explains why they are still in games despite the fact that you do not personally like them.

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Again, it's not that I don't like them, just that they've been used to death. Including them just feels creatively bankrupt at this point.

 

[inpHilltr8r]

STOP MAKING ART I DONT LIKE

 

[Teeth]

Should have been more clear but I didn't want to make the thread title too long. But yeah, I'm not talking about actual ads for real-world products, but in-game, in-universe ads. Like this:



I guess. I don't like them personally. They were cool the first few times. BioShock still looks incredible. But I don't get the appeal of shoving them in a game seemingly for the sake of it.

And what a weird thing to catch on. Imagine someone who doesn't play games seeing how many games use that art style. "Huh, guess gamers really love '50s style advertisements"

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They are used because they are the only type of ads that can act both as jokes and as diagetic material.

If they used more modern style ads, they wouldn't be funny, or if they were, they wouldn't be believably diagetic because they would come off more like GTA hamfisted satire.

That style of implausible positivity and corporate trust was presented barefaced in ads of that vintage. Displaced, all audiences can easily read them as "wrong", but be okay with the in-universe characters not having problems with them because they worked on real people in our own history.

 

[Aurc]

People like them. They're pretty to look at, and usually make good use of irony (a happy housewife smiling while holding a laser rifle).

 

[Joe Shlabotnik]

Most or all of the games you are talking about are satirizing mid-20th century America in one way or another.

 

[Vulcano's Assistant]

It's short hand for late 19th century and early 20th century World's Fairs.

A real time in history in which corporations invested into convincing the public that scientific progress and capitalism were one and the same.

Very fitting.

 

[NickatNite]

Haven't played Outer Worlds. But isn't that apart of the games aesthetic?

 

[mbpm]

Aren't they part of the setting?

It's like...I dunno, horror movies and being alone. They're part of the package.

 

[Kthulhu]

Haven't played Outer Worlds. But isn't that apart of the games aesthetic?

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The game has elements of retro futurism so I'd say so.

 

[QuixoticNeutral]

Retrofuturism was innately appealing long before BioShock and Fallout ever got into the mix, not least because present-day tropes in science fiction have so many roots that can be traced directly to early-twentieth-century print design and architecture. Visit a streamliner locomotive in a museum sometime and you'll see what I mean. The 1939 World's Fair in New York was a particularly foundational moment for what we consider modern SF.

I'll never get enough of this and can only hope we see more.

 

[Deleted member 49535]

Because they're great.

 

[Javier23]

I haven't played the game yet, but I assume it's because Fallout has always gone for the same thing. The original Fallout began with TV ads too.

 

[Clay]

I like them and it tends to make the worlds more believable for me.

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Ah yes, because flying around the universe or battling your way through post-apocalypse Boston, fighting aliens, mutants, and robots with an array of sci-fi weaponry is a little hard to swallow unless the experience is grounded by a bunch of in-universe posters using a very specific art style popular in the US in the 1950s.

They are used because they are the only type of ads that can act both as jokes and as diagetic material.

If they used more modern style ads, they wouldn't be funny, or if they were, they wouldn't be believably diagetic because they would come off more like GTA hamfisted satire.

That style of implausible positivity and corporate trust was presented barefaced in ads of that vintage. Displaced, all audiences can easily read them as "wrong", but be okay with the in-universe characters having problems with them because they worked on real people in our own history.

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That first sentence just seems laughable. I'd hire new writers if they're only capable of being funny if they're writing copy for ads with a specific aesthetic. This art style is the very definition of ham-fisted. BioShock felt original, and it makes sense to some degree in Fallout since the bombs were dropped when these and were popular (why society hasn't produced anything new since this is a mystery, clearly we've moved past it in the real world and I'm not sure why Fallout's would be any different), but how exactly does this style feel natural in Outer Worlds? I see it and immediately think "Oh, they used that style because you apparently have to in this genre."

There's also plenty of games that don't use this style for humor. Dead Space strikes me as on of the more ridiculous examples of artists just shoe-horning this style into their game because... I'm not sure, I don't want to be mean but it sorta feels like they just can't come up with anything new.

Hard disagree on this assessment.

I haven't played the game yet, but I assume it's because Fallout has always gone for the same thing. The original Fallout began with TV ads too.

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This is what I mean by the thread title. Outer Worlds does have some unique stuff going on. I'm surprised that with this one aspect of the game's design they seemingly went "Welp, the game we're basing our off of had some posters in it with this really distinct style, so guess we better have some of them too."

Seems like ridiculous decision making to me.

 

[Luminish]

They're also pretty easy forms of environmental storytelling, and I love environmental storytelling.

 

[Leo-Tyrant]

Should have been more clear but I didn't want to make the thread title too long. But yeah, I'm not talking about actual ads for real-world products, but in-game, in-universe ads. Like this:

Again, it's not that I don't like them, just that they've been used to death. Including them just feels creatively bankrupt at this point.

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What if the final end user (gamer) actually likes it? I see your "why this again" point, but the actual art looks good, and is in tune with the rest of the progress = capitalism setting.

Edit: Are you just annoyed that they are using a 50s art style? Would it "fit in" better if they selected a different advertising standard (modern perhaps?). Or is the advertisement mimic what bothers you?

 

[abellwillring]

Gotta be honest, I didn't even remember what they looked like in part because this was my first game on an SSD and the load times were so short. I'm sure I must have appreciated them in some respect since I obviously didn't have an issue with them. As far as reasons why.. I think they like to juxtapose the old with the new.

 

[Clay]

They're also pretty easy forms of environmental storytelling, and I love environmental storytelling.

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That's what I'm getting at. It's easy. There's no though put into it. It's included because a bunch of other games had it, so what are we going to do, NOT copy them? I can understand if bigger AAA games do it, but personally I feel disappointed when smaller studios don't take the opportunity to do something more unique and interesting.

 

[Deleted member 33120]

We have to stop publishers from doing stuff that I think is played out.

 

[KarmaCow]

Prey's 70s era futurism is great.

 

[inpHilltr8r]

It's included because a bunch of other games had it

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objection, presumes motive

 

[Fadewise]

I guess. I don't like them personally. They were cool the first few times. BioShock still looks incredible. But I don't get the appeal of shoving them in a game seemingly for the sake of it.

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Given the lineal and thematic connections between Fallout and The Outer World'd the latter's inclusino of a mid-century retro-future aesthetic doesn't seem arbitrary at all.

 

[Duffking]

yeah because 2 games doing the same thing in like a decade means all the devs have run out of ideas

 

[Chocobo Blade]

A game features art that fits its aesthetic, how awful. We need to rise up against this.

 

[Vulcano's Assistant]

These games don't exist in a vacuum. While there is a strong argument that the Outer Worlds tries to evoke Fallout, and the "vintage feel" as you call it; using 20th century art goes beyond vintage. There are very especific feelings to each period. Fallout's 1950s are very much about evoking the Red Scare. The Outer Worlds 1900s are about making you think about Oil Barons.

 

[demondance]

If anybody should be allowed to do it, Tim Cain and Leonard Boyarsky of all people should be? This is kind of their thing that they've been doing since the original Fallout and again in Arcanum, well before Bioshock went to that well to separate itself from System Shock.

These games don't exist in a vacuum. While there is a strong argument that the Outer Worlds tries to evoke Fallout, and the "vintage feel" as you call it; using 20th century art goes beyond vintage. There are very especific feelings to each period. Fallout's 1950s are very much about evoking the Red Scare. The Outer Worlds 1900s are about making you think about Oil Barons.

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The OP kind of handwaves this off but this is crucial as well. This particular creative team are the guys who really made this a thing in gaming, and it's not like they're haphazard about it. They're evoking very particular vibes by choosing different periods to call back to.

 

[Deleted member 31817]

I liked them when Obsidian used them in New Vegas and I like them here

 

[Clay]

Given the lineal and thematic connections between Fallout and The Outer World'd the latter's inclusino of a mid-century retro-future aesthetic doesn't seem arbitrary at all.

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"This other game with a similar theme and setting to ours had this particular feature, let's go ahead and include it" is completely arbitrary.

It makes it feel like Obsidian wishes they were still working on Fallout, and not excited to do their own thing.

 

[Lowrys]

They are used because they are the only type of ads that can act both as jokes and as diagetic material.

If they used more modern style ads, they wouldn't be funny, or if they were, they wouldn't be believably diagetic because they would come off more like GTA hamfisted satire.

That style of implausible positivity and corporate trust was presented barefaced in ads of that vintage. Displaced, all audiences can easily read them as "wrong", but be okay with the in-universe characters not having problems with them because they worked on real people in our own history.

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Great post.

 

[XDevil666]

It's fine and gives the team to put in something meaningful to them

 

[Deleted member 31817]

If anybody should be allowed to do it, Tim Cain and Leonard Boyarsky of all people should be? This is kind of their thing that they've been doing since the original Fallout and again in Arcanum, well before Bioshock went to that well to separate itself from System Shock.



The OP kind of handwaves this off but this is crucial as well. This particular creative team are the guys who really made this a thing in gaming, and it's not like they're haphazard about it. They're evoking very particular vibes by choosing different periods to call back to.

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Yeah it's funny that OP is claiming they're ripping off Bioshock lol

 

[demondance]

Yeah it's funny that OP is claiming they're ripping off Bioshock lol

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And Bioshock was indeed a bit less careful about this stuff than Fallout, Arcanum and now Outer Worlds are. They leaned in hard on a 1920's aesthetic while the themes of the game were a treatise on a book published in 1957.

 

[Clay]

Yeah it's funny that OP is claiming they're ripping off Bioshock lol

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I understand BioShock wasn't the first game (or media in general) to use that style, but it certainly popularized it. BioShock's art is far, far more recognizable than the PC games that preceded it, and I don't see how you could argue it hasn't done more to popularize that style.

 

[Sotha_Sil]

I love them, but I'm also a fan of the style. It's not like that many games use them.

And ripping off Bioshock is a pretty hilarious comment. Cain and Boyarsky were doing this in a decade before Bioshock.

 

[Servbot24]

Wouldn't it be a novelty if I added background music from the 50s to my game?

 

[demondance]

I understand BioShock wasn't the first game (or media in general) to use that style, but it certainly popularized it. BioShock's art is far, far more recognizable than the PC games that preceded it.

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I dunno, I hear Fallout is a pretty popular IP and probably half the reason you posted this thread in the first place

 

[Strangelove_77]

There's still a lot of people that like that particular theme.

 

[carlsojo]

They've kinda worn out their welcome for me personally.

Part of Outer Worlds is the whole corporatization thing so it makes sense that there are ads everywhere but it's (one of the many) things that felt stale about the game.

 

[hydruxo]

What an odd thing to complain about. The old timey ads were neat. I like the art and Outer Worlds is all about the corporations working everyone to death so it makes sense having ads everywhere.

 

[Veelk]

To be honest, I think that developers DO use more modern style ads when they are worldbuilding, but ads aren't a key focus of to it.

I think it's about identifiability. Ads like the 1950's style of Outer Worlds stand out, whereas modern type of ads would kind of be invisible to us because how modern ads are invisible now, I guess?