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Why are third-party wireless Xbox Series & PS5 controllers so rare?

Jawmuncher

Jawmuncher

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Oct 25, 2017
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Just something I noticed the other day while browsing for no particular reason. On the Xbox side there seem to be very few wireless options (The majority are wired such as the Xbox Dukes). On the PS5 there seem to be no third-party controller options at all (Barring Arcade Sticks)?

Is the wireless licensing from Sony/MS just that much of a hassle for third-party manufacturers? A recent example that was absolutely ludicrous was the Xbox Branded 8bitdo controller that only works wirelessly with multiple platforms EXCEPT for Xbox. Like what happened there?

Maybe it doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things as controller stock is going back to normal but it would be nice to have more options if the situation ever did arise.
 
Het_Nkik

Het_Nkik

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Oct 27, 2017
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It's funny this thread was made as I was literally just now looking to buy Hori's newest fighting game controller for PS5 only to find out they only made one for Xbox Series. And that thing is wired. I can't even find wired third party controllers for PS5 that I want lol.
 
zombiejames

zombiejames

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Oct 25, 2017
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Licensing fees and costs of making something that has feature parity plus extra features on top.
 
OmegaDL50

OmegaDL50

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Oct 25, 2017
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VoltySquirrel said:
For Xbox, it's because they use proprietary wireless tech. For PS5 idk, maybe Sony licensing costs.
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From what I understand Sony uses special security chips that authenticate with the console. At least that what Brook explained for the PS5 add-on for the UFB for custom arcade sticks.

I still need to buy the add-on board so I can actually use my stick when the list of PS5 native fighting games sizable beyond the 3 or so games available now.

With Sony owning EVO they would probably incentivize the use of Arcade sticks for tournament settings since they'll likely promoting PS5 for it and this becomes a problem when there aren't actually any native PS5 arcade sticks to use at said tournament setting. It's by some small grace that the current few PS5 native fighting games actually have compatibility with PS4 sticks.
 
OmegaDL50

OmegaDL50

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Typhon said:
They're still using that crap? Thought they gave it up after the 360 and switched to BT.
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They do use BT, it's just a matter of reliability in terms of connectivity. In fact the XBO / Series X controllers in BT mode aren't actually great without using the adapter on a PC without encountering latency related issues. No such problems on Series X though probably because the communication alternative to BT is likely built into the console. Not entirely sure what the differences are but I do notice a difference in this case when using the adapter on my PC as opposed to not using it in this case.
 
Pheonix

Pheonix

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Patented tech in the controllers means they have to license the tech from Sony/MS. And getting the license is just one thing unless Sony/MS are also directly selling the tech (which they are not) to these third parties, then the third parties would have to do a decent amount of R&D to make their own (licensed) version of those features. Eg, Sixaxis, haptic feedback, and adaptive triggers.

And there is no point making the controllers without them having feature parity with the standard controllers.

The best we probably will see outside 3rd party licensed controllers... are modified, first-party controllers. And we are already seeing kits for those popup for the PS5 DS controllers at least.
 
Grifter

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Oct 26, 2017
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I've been wondering why Hori isn't crushing this space instead of letting 8BitDo eat their lunch
 
Ashes of Dreams

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Huh? There's a lot of third party options for Xbox controllers. Since the Series X controller is interchangeable with the Xbox One controller. There's a bunch of wired and wireless options. PowerA, PDP, Afterglow, etc. They all usually offer wired and wireless options.

Playstation, though, yeah. I remember reading that the touchpad kept third party away, and I imagine all the Dualsense features aren't any more enticing. It's probably just a lot more expensive to make those controllers and thus not worth the hit in cost it'd take for them to sell them cheaper than Sony's.
 
Ascenion

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I mean I imagine dualsense features will be hard to replicate. I don't think the SCUF controller releasing this year is gonna be fully featured. At the very least it can't have adaptive triggers.
 
Edward850

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OmegaDL50 said:
They do use BT, it's just a matter of reliability in terms of connectivity. In fact the XBO / Series X controllers in BT mode aren't actually great without using the adapter on a PC without encountering latency related issues. No such problems on Series X though probably because the communication alternative to BT is likely built into the console. Not entirely sure what the differences are but I do notice a difference in this case when using the adapter on my PC as opposed to not using it in this case.
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Not exactly, they have bluetooth but they don't use it at all when connecting to the Xbox, it's a dual radio setup. They have their own communication protocol for the adapter and Xbox itself, allegedly based on WiFi Direct though I have no solid confirmation on that. It seems to be an evolution of what they had for the 360, so they likely just stuck with what they knew worked. The bluetooth radio is only used on PC as a compatibility fallback if you don't have an adapter and aren't using a wired connection.

Because of this, they have the only protocol that supports 8 controllers at once without having to drop the sampling resolution. The Switch has to drop the resolution to handle 8 joycons at once, and the PS4/5 doesn't even do more than 4 controllers.
 
Pyro

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It's been less than year since the new consoles came out and there's a strain on the global supply of electronics supplies for manufacturing.
 
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Jawmuncher

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Pyro said:
It's been less than year since the new consoles came out and there's a strain on the global supply of electronics supplies for manufacturing.
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For Xbox, the wireless protocol hasn't changed since the X1 so that's what, 8 years of telling people no for using their wireless tech?

For PS5 I can understand that reasoning though.
 
Pyro

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Jawmuncher said:
For Xbox, the wireless protocol hasn't changed since the X1 so that's what, 8 years of telling people no for using their wireless tech?

For PS5 I can understand that reasoning though.
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Yeah I didn't realize how bad third party Xbox controllers had been until folks started saying it has proprietary tech since I feel like I always saw PS4 & Switch third-party controllers throughout the years (didn't have an X1). Guess MS doesn't want them to have a cut or something by not allowing people to use their tech? After all they have the Design Lab/Elite controllers, which is through them exclusively.
 
The Turbanator

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Why would you buy a $50 off-brand controller when the official controller is right there? Wouldn't be surprised if MS and Sony refused to license fully-featured controllers that undercut FP stuff too.
 
DetectiveKenobi

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Scuff is coming out wiht a PS5 conroller but you better believe it's not gonna cost 70 bucks. And the only reason I'd entertain it is for the paddles because sony's PS4 adapter doesn't work on the PS5.
 
VoltySquirrel

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Oct 25, 2017
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Edward850 said:
Not exactly, they have bluetooth but they don't use it at all when connecting to the Xbox, it's a dual radio setup. They have their own communication protocol for the adapter and Xbox itself, allegedly based on WiFi Direct though I have no solid confirmation on that. It seems to be an evolution of what they had for the 360, so they likely just stuck with what they knew worked. The bluetooth radio is only used on PC as a compatibility fallback if you don't have an adapter and aren't using a wired connection.

Because of this, they have the only protocol that supports 8 controllers at once without having to drop the sampling resolution. The Switch has to drop the resolution to handle 8 joycons at once, and the PS4/5 doesn't even do more than 4 controllers.
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I remember the first time I noticed that the Xbox could do so many controllers at once was when that game Screencheat was ported to Xbox with a 6 player splitscreen mode.
 
Vincent Grayson

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Maybe I'm just stuck still with the mindset from generations ago, but I just never trusted 3rd party controllers and felt like they were always prone to issues and/or felt cheaply built. I'm speaking of "traditional" 3rd party controllers mind, not specialized things.
 
VoltySquirrel

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Oct 25, 2017
490
Vincent Grayson said:
Maybe I'm just stuck still with the mindset from generations ago, but I just never trusted 3rd party controllers and felt like they were always prone to issues and/or felt cheaply built. I'm speaking of "traditional" 3rd party controllers mind, not specialized things.
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When it comes to wired controllers, I always thought there were good options for 3rd party pads, and still do. Like if I were to buy a wired Xbox pad right now, I'd buy the 8bitdo controller they announced recently, easily. However wireless has such a chance for issues that I simply wouldn't trust companies that aren't making the console to make a wireless controller that is worth getting for less money than an official controller. The exception to this is the Switch, where the market is so blown open that this is actually possible (also since I think Nintendo is literally just using Bluetooth with not many modications).
 
PJTierney

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OmegaDL50 said:
From what I understand Sony uses special security chips that authenticate with the console. At least that what Brook explained for the PS5 add-on for the UFB for custom arcade sticks.
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Speaking as somebody with steering wheel experience, both platforms have security mechanisms.

Fanatec get around this by putting the PlayStation chip in the wheel base (on specific models, which tend to be more expensive than the non-compatible versions) and the Xbox chip (or whatever makes a wheel Xbox compatible) in the steering wheel itself. That way you can buy a PlayStation base and use it on Xbox (like I do), or use an Xbox wheel on PlayStation.
 
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Jawmuncher

Jawmuncher

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bonesawisready5 said:
I believe SCUF has released some for ps5, tho they are pricey. Others have released some but big ones like razer haven't yet .

Since Xbox one controllers work just the same on series isn't there a ton of options from Power A, etc?
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Razor has expensive wireless controllers now too. Not quite sure the appeal of them though. They're regular controllers but have a Star Wars license through razer I guess?
 
Will Law

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Feb 5, 2021
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Yeah I wish there were more options. I would have been interested in the re-released Duke controller if it was wireless, but it's stuck wired with a freagin LCD screen in the center for some reason.

I did recently pull out the Hyperkin S Wheel, which is actually a wireless racing wheel for Xbox One and Series consoles. It works terrible with the latest Forza games, but was okay with Forza Horizon 1 and Joy Ride Turbo. I wanted to see if my toddler would have fun spinning the wheel around in some driving games.
 
riotous

riotous

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Oct 25, 2017
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Sony clearly wants to monopolize controller sales.

Only can buy from Sony, and they block any PS4 (and third party) controllers from working on PS5 games arbitrarily (while pretending it isn't arbitrary). I don't think they've even offered a licensing program yet, and if they do it'll probably not come cheap (to the companies wanting to license it) so Sony's profit is equal to if they just sold you a 1st party one.

I'm not sure about XBox, I don't pay as much attention.. Sony's strategy is highly aggravating.
 
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