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Why are Ted Woosley's changes celebrated instead of bashed?
- Thread starter Uzumaki Goku
- Start date
I think that was the "honeymoon period" where Internet folk was at awe with being able to finally see translations that keep true to the original games. But from what I've heard, a lot of earlier Japanese RPGs were pretty basic as far as story and dialog went. I think it should be a give to spruce up dialog during localization if it makes everything flow better. I feel the same regarding anime dubbing. Sometimes a literal translation doesn't "translate" well to English. Sometimes Japanese style of humor or in-jokes doesn't carry over to Western taste. Instead of just going a literally translated route, for the sake of it, it's no crime to chang a bit of it as long as the main ideas and gist are kept intact.
Duly noted.
I'm still waiting to know if the comments on Byuu's ass on Bahamut Lagoon are actually true.
Ugh speaking of which, I just finished playing Torneko The Last Hope on PS1 and the dialog is dryer than the Sahara! There's zero charm to it. Afterward I restarted Dragon Quest Heroes 2, and it was an oasis. I know not everyone is crazy about modern Dragon Quest localizations but Torneko is definitely NOT an example that works in their favor.
It's what people grew up with.
That said, I think he did a bang up job considering the limitations at the time.
That said, I think he did a bang up job considering the limitations at the time.
I haven't played it in Japanese but the JP wiki Game Catalog makes specific mention of it so it appears to be accurate.
バハムート ラグーン - ゲームカタログ@Wiki ～名作からクソゲーまで～
バハムート ラグーン 【ばはむーと らぐーん】 ジャンル シミュレーションRPG 対応機種 スーパーファミコン 発売・開発元 スクウェア 発売日 1996年2月9日 定価 11,400円(税抜) プレ...
w.atwiki.jp
All of this. Glad to see this thread. Big turnaround from previous threads I've seen over the past 10 years (here and elsewhere, iirc) that shit on him.
Also, OP mentions Celes' name has a connection to space. How so?
All things considered, it's a fine translation. It's nowhere near the worst. All the mature themes are there and whatnot. I don't like it because all the name changes to all the spells are super annoying to me. And the monsters too. I prefer the uniformity that FF8 and up established with translation overseas.
Woosley produced far better work than his immediate contemporaries, and he did it while dealing with severe character limits in the text, tight deadlines, and Nintendo of America's restrictive censorship policy. I doubt many (or any) translators today could do a better job than him if they had to work under similar restrictions (take a look at the original Ys VIII translation for a recent example of what happens when translators have to work under an oppressive deadline). Honestly, I find his scripts a bit more lively than the newer Final Fantasy VI and Chrono Trigger translations, although the newer ones are more faithful.
yup, you can admire the work and the time of the work, and some of the charm of it too, while recognizing that with more time and effort a better and more faithful translation was possible.
and in fact, even when translating faithfully, the GBA version still retained some of Woosley's stuff because it was so good.
Woolsey was/is the man! He did amazing work given the time/limitations he had.
He made the games charming and added some of the most memorable lines from that era.
He made the games charming and added some of the most memorable lines from that era.
He kept the tone playful while keeping each character's personality distinct.
"Run, run; or you will be well-done!" conveys Kefka's malicious glee, "I work for the Empire now, but don't worry; I won't gorrote you!" is a joke that could only work with Shadow's sketchy reputation, and "Not a word of this o shrouded one." Is one of my favorites.
"Run, run; or you will be well-done!" conveys Kefka's malicious glee, "I work for the Empire now, but don't worry; I won't gorrote you!" is a joke that could only work with Shadow's sketchy reputation, and "Not a word of this o shrouded one." Is one of my favorites.
That's like saying "why are the wright brothers so celebrated for a rickety wooden plane, instead of bashed for not making a carbon fiber jet?"
His translation is so full of personality and even today, even manages to stand head and shoulders above a lot of contemporary work.
His translation is so full of personality and even today, even manages to stand head and shoulders above a lot of contemporary work.
His localization work is spotty but really fun. If he was given more time he would have aced it all considering what he did do under those shit conditions.
lmao right?
I worked with / for Woolsey for years. He's a great guy. He's got a quiet sense of humor that I think served him so well in his translations.
Curaga FTW
Curaga FTW
That wasn't him. That was a "modern" addition that started with FFVIII.
He was great at localizing intent without being beholden by the literal translation. I feel like that's why a lot of contemporary JRPGs creep me out today, they are translated way more literally.
Been ages since i played ffv on ps1...is it butz or bartz there?
Wasn't Macek responsible for Macross' localization into Robotech and subsequently Harmony Gold squatting on the former franchise? If so, that sounds like an insult.
Odd. According to him, those came out of a hard character limit in the older games that forced the naming to change for english release.
That's what's it's always been in Japanese but back then they used numbers like Cure 3 and Fire 2.
Woolsey text: "That's Shadow. He's slit his momma's throat for a nickel."
Faithful Japanese Translation: "That's Shadow. He'd do anything for the right price."
It just doesn't have the same "oomph" as the Woolsey translation. There's just something more ruthless about it.
Faithful Japanese Translation: "That's Shadow. He'd do anything for the right price."
It just doesn't have the same "oomph" as the Woolsey translation. There's just something more ruthless about it.
I haven't paid attention to the scene since the early 2000s so until I read this thread I never knew it had turned a corner.
Would probably be better without referencing US currency, but yes.
Not being a Star Wars dork isn't a crime
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the GBA translation actually got this one better
"He'd kill his best friend for the right price"
give shadow's storyline a little bit of foreshadowing in that regard. the original translation makes him sound like a sociopath instead of just a mercenary
Could've used him for a few modern FF games...
Cocoon uses US English??
That's bollocks, mate!!!!
Woolsey did an amazing job considering the time and limitations that he had at the time. Not only was he able to manage an insanely tight schedule and adapt to local content & marketing considerations, he also injected tons of personality onto the characters. He did what good professional translators do: He adapted the game, gave it local flavor, and made it appeal to the target audience.
Most of the fan-translation patches proclaiming to have "more accurate" translations are usually awful, completely devoid of any flavor or personality. They read like what you would expect a machine translating Japanese text to output, not like what you would expect a native English-speaker to sound like. Playing the FFV SNES English patch made me realize just how dry, unnatural, and boring a translation can be. And I was completely appalled that the characters referred to the flying dragon-type creature as "Hiryuu", instead of converting that name to something more English-sounding. Pro translators would never do something like that, even if it's not pristinely 100% faithful. This is why this creature is known as a "Wind drake" or "Wyvern" in the official releases. See how more natural that sounds?
Most of the fan-translation patches proclaiming to have "more accurate" translations are usually awful, completely devoid of any flavor or personality. They read like what you would expect a machine translating Japanese text to output, not like what you would expect a native English-speaker to sound like. Playing the FFV SNES English patch made me realize just how dry, unnatural, and boring a translation can be. And I was completely appalled that the characters referred to the flying dragon-type creature as "Hiryuu", instead of converting that name to something more English-sounding. Pro translators would never do something like that, even if it's not pristinely 100% faithful. This is why this creature is known as a "Wind drake" or "Wyvern" in the official releases. See how more natural that sounds?
Woolsey was the first translator at Square that made translations feel natural and alive instead of the translation you might find in a foreign appliance's manual. His contribution to translating is not in specific changes, but simply the quality of the translation itself. You only have to play the games he translated (like FFVI and Secret of Mana) versus the ones he didn't (like FFIV or FFVII) to realize the huge disparity in care and quality.
I'm afraid Woolsey didn't translate FFIV. :)
I'm afraid Woolsey didn't translate FFIV. :)
Localization can be hit and miss, love or hate. Personally, FF6 just *worked*. And so did a lot of Working Design titles. Others less so.
On the plus side, it's also the one where Faris speaks like this the entire game:
Shame about the rest of it.
People seem to assume localization = 1:1 translation or how closely the translation matches source material.
While it is important in some cases, I'd argue Woolsey's work on the SNES era FF's and other games popularized the genre in the west by not doing 1-1 out of (cultural) context translations. Since the 32 bit era and memory not being an issue, we've had a lot of 1-1 terrible/mediocre/forgettation translations of Japanese JRPGs that no one remembers, yet somehow people still remember Woolsey's whimsical translations and 'adapations' of the source material for the SNES games.
I also recall memory restrictions put a lot of limitations towards a straight 1-1, including foricng him to shorten some text passages, and names like Ultima became Atma.
While it is important in some cases, I'd argue Woolsey's work on the SNES era FF's and other games popularized the genre in the west by not doing 1-1 out of (cultural) context translations. Since the 32 bit era and memory not being an issue, we've had a lot of 1-1 terrible/mediocre/forgettation translations of Japanese JRPGs that no one remembers, yet somehow people still remember Woolsey's whimsical translations and 'adapations' of the source material for the SNES games.
I also recall memory restrictions put a lot of limitations towards a straight 1-1, including foricng him to shorten some text passages, and names like Ultima became Atma.
lmao, I've never seen this before.On the plus side, it's also the one where Faris speaks like this the entire game:
Shame about the rest of it.
I was referring to Macek's localizations for a variety of films- most of which have a ton of charm (and certain creative liberties) that I like a great deal. I've never waded into the whole Macross/Robotech/Harmony Gold mess.
Well, a Japanese speaker would read Celes as Ceres, which is a dwarf planet. Either that or celestial, as mentioned.
At the time, you couldn't really be picky. Working Designs did good work, Nintendo (Earthbound) & Sega (Phantasy Star IV) had their moments, and Ted Woolsey's scripts were fun. But then you had stuff like Breath of Fire 2 which is scarcely intelligible at times. I really liked a lot of Enix SNES JRPGs, but their translations weren't the best (Robotrek was dreadful IIRC).
Yup, I worked on the same floor as him at Microsoft for a while. Never met him but saw he had a nice big FF6 poster hanging in his office.