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CGiRanger

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,517
Even though I've been playing XB2 and mostly enjoying it, the whole "Gacha" gameplay feature of the RARE Blades is by far the worst aspect of the gameplay. Not only does it "lock" skills you need to use in order to access game content behind a random number generator when you "pull" the cores and hope you get lucky, but it makes it all but impossible to be able to easily do anything with ease, since a lot of the time when you start on the sidequest you'll run into these gates of Field Skills which are tied to the rare blades, or needing to complete a Merc Mission which is also tied to skills. And if you have neither then you're blocked from progression.

In the few Gacha games that I've tried and hated on mobile devices, this is pretty much the norm for these kinds of games, though instead of course in those cases you pay actual money to get the content and then spend a ton of time "grinding" with these characters hoping to again access those parts of the "gameplay" and progression of the story. It's all incredibly tedious and the whole concept of Gacha just seems antithetical to respecting a players time.

And yet, these games are just so popular, especially in Japan where so many RPG's are now going the "Gacha" route, in spite of how it makes worse gameplay and worse stories because they are locked and segmented with all this "live service content" that is doled out in droves but has no cohesion or narrative flow to it.

And then of course, one day, the servers will go down, and all the money and time invested in purchasing all that content will be completely erased. That in and of itself just rubs me the wrong way.

Heck, just imagine what if Nintendo had implemented a microtransaction element to the XB2 Rare blade system? You basically would be even more screwed if you wanted to experience the game's full content unless you paid more.
 

Abriael

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,605
Milano - Italy
Gacha games are normally low-effort, which are good to do on the side of other activities to avoid boredom, and the collecting aspect is fun.
 
Oct 25, 2017
13,016
Because Waifus, and in some cases Husbandos too.

I was almost sucked into the craziness that is Fate/Grand Order, played it for months, but then noticed how addictive and stupid it was, so I deleted it and never saw back.

Friends don't let friends play Gacha games. These games are DESIGNED to suck as much money as they can from you, you want the cute girl/dude and some are not as strong and will WHALE and spend hundreds of dollars for a single character.
 

Kyari

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,849
Because psychologists have spent a long time honing that perfect blend of responses and dopamine kicks into video game form, and that's how gacha works
 

Deleted member 11413

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
22,961
They are psychologically manipulative. Same reason gambling is popular.

Edit: And given the more racy nature of most Gacha games, porn as well. Psychologically manipulative in more ways than one
 

BasedKiliK

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
106
Low-effort overstimulating rewards, no barrier to entry (usually), waifus and big numbers. People love big numbers.
 

GaimeGuy

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,092
Imagine if casinos were free from regulations and could interface with you directly via your phone, bombarding you with flash content 24/7/365, always tempting you, with an army of psychologists on the payroll using every trick in the book to manipulate you into parting with your money.


That's gacha.
 

KZXcellent

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,969
It feels good to collect the characters you think are cool. Personally I play the Kingdom Hearts gatcha game and I enjoy get the various characters. The game also does an okay job of giving out freebees so I don't feel hard-pressed to shell out money.

XB2 on the other hand doesn't charge anything for it's gatcha system and it's terrible. All the common blades look absolutely boring and you can get them in Common, Rare AND Legendary Core Crystals. The fact that there is no guarantee even on something called "Legendary Core Crystal" is laughable.
 

Raysoul

Fat4All Ruined My Rug
Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,016
The main reason is it being free to play. The gacha aspect makes it addicting, and the monetization of the gacha is how they are earning.
 

Zukkoyaki

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
11,286
They're free and accessible and easy to understand.

Rewards are addicting.

They can also be enjoyed in 2 minute sessions or 2 hour sessions.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,293
We're easily manipulated and can be made to become addicted to even the most mundane things through our love of instant gratification.
 

sfortunato

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,740
Italy
They are designed to create addiction. People get suck into those systems and when they realize they are spending money on goods that do not even own, cannot be resold and have little personal value in the long-run, it's too late.
 

_zoipi

One Winged Slayer
Member
Nov 23, 2017
2,377
Madrid
The power of waifus. I grinded a lot in Destiny of Spirits to get Tsukiyomi and Miyokutsu. Worth it.
 

Gold Arsene

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
30,757
Do to a series of eff ups on my part I've actually locked out of my apple account, and I've never bothered fixing it because I play these games and know I would probably waste money on them.

It's basically like trading cards, just keep trying till you get the one you like.
Everyone has a smartphone these days and these gacha games are free.
This is another one. You can basically try any of them for free.
 

Lemstar

Member
Oct 25, 2017
738
Because psychologists have spent a long time honing that perfect blend of responses and dopamine kicks into video game form, and that's how gacha works
Because of the feeling of the chemicals in your brain.
I'm not disputing this, but everyone's aware that this is literally how anything fun operates, right? I get the impression from these discussions that the couple of articles published about lootbox design and psychology caused a moral panic because people didn't know that the same techniques have been around for ages.



Again, Japan already does this.

I think it's a good policy, but I'm also curious as to how this affects people's perceptions of people who buy into randomized microtransactions. It's pretty common knowledge that buying a lottery ticket is negative EV, and consequentially it's not really uncommon to deride people who do (which may or may not also have to do with demographic reasons, but that's a discussion for OT), but if people know that something specific they're rolling for has a pitifully low rate, does that make them idiots or gambling-addicted loser cats?
 

Araujo

Banned
Dec 5, 2017
2,196
People feel special when they are quickly rewards for a simple action. Specially when "Luck" seems to be on their side.

It's just manipulative adiction. Mind you there is a slice of online communities where people will donate to Streamers ONLY to have those streams use those donations to buy and open loot boxes/card packs. Be it Heartstone, Overwatch.... whatever. People will actually pay to watch and obverse someone ELSE gambling for rewards. That's how addictive it can get.
 

Drax

Oregon tag
Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,081
Good gacha games continuously update with content. Stuff like Granblue where they continuously push out events can be seen as a positive to more static games.
 
Nov 2, 2017
6,811
Shibuya
I'm not disputing this, but everyone's aware that this is literally how anything fun operates, right? I get the impression from these discussions that the couple of articles published about lootbox design and psychology caused a moral panic because people didn't know that the same techniques have been around for ages.
Of course, just when it's a games developed so brazenly around a business model I do feel like my cynicism levels get higher. At least games developed with intent to be a game first and foremost have integrity.
 

broflap

Member
Oct 25, 2017
511
Nostalgia. Captian Tsubasa was my childhood and I just want to collect all the characters lol
 

Hentailover

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,417
Moscow
Gacha is actually super addictive. SOmetimes I would download a new gacha game cuz I know that on launch theyoften give freebies to early adopters, so I get to roll a few times, even though I have no desire to bother with the game beyond that. It's why I am sometimes I am broke. Otherwise, I'd probably broken my f2p sometime ago and paid for some pulls or even a bunch ofpulls in these games
 

TheZodiacAge

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
1,068
Collecting stuff is addicting

I don't pay for these things but back then i bought a shit ton of stickerpacks to get that one Dragonball/Digimon/Pokemon or Football Player to complete the collectionbook

In these games many play and pay to get that specific card and max it out etc
 

Syril

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,895
The thing I was always most taken aback by in them were all the "for the limited time the odds of certain results are slightly better!" events. Is that a thing that happens with actual gachapon machines?

The worst system I've ever heard of was "complete gacha", where you would get a special bonus reward for collecting everything from a set, but it was actually outlawed in 2012.
 

SephLuis

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,343
Most gatchas are about collecting chracters/stuff and then using those in-game. A good one won't force you to have the best units and it's actually cool to see how your account grows after a while. I play some gatcha games and never had to spend a cent.

It isn't any different from any loot based game really. Getting that character/item you wanted because it is useful or because you think it's cool is a good feeling.
 

Buckle

Member
Oct 27, 2017
41,112
Its gambling that preys on certain aspects of potential game addiction by adding a random chance for maximum profit. I enjoy some like FFRK but almost never spend money on it.

Because psychologists have spent a long time honing that perfect blend of responses and dopamine kicks into video game form, and that's how gacha works
You really have to admire how big of a piece of shit those people are.

"Hey, can you help us turn people into addicts for our product?"

"Absolutely. Thats why I got into psychology, so I could just fucking ruin people."
 

Pimienta

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,837
They have the same draws from gambling. I get sad when I see someone on Twitter posting from Fire Emblem Heroes to Granblue Fantasy, wasting shit ton of money.

"I spent 3K usd on games xD"
 

Mechanized

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,442
It's gambling. With all the psychological manipulation that involves. And I think it is very simply that. People spin the slot machine for a chance at something "rare", which has false/preset value associated with it "this is good because it's rare, nobody else has it, you'll be better if you have it, you need it". Then you have all the pleasure centers of your brain going off from flashing lights, explosions, confetti, grand opening animations. So even when you lose your brain thinks it has won. That's how they grab you and keep you addicted, for the sparse times you do get something percieved as good you are forever chasing that high.
 

SephLuis

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,343
It's gambling. With all the psychological manipulation that involves. And I think it is very simply that. People spin the slot machine for a chance at something "rare", which has false/preset value associated with it "this is good because it's rare, nobody else has it, you'll be better if you have it, you need it". Then you have all the pleasure centers of your brain going off from flashing lights, explosions, confetti, grand opening animations. So even when you lose your brain thinks it has won. That's how they grab you and keep you addicted, for the sparse times you do get something percieved as good you are forever chasing that high.

I'm going to suppose you don't play any Gatchas right ? While the feeling to collect new things is real, it isn't the end game by any means.
You're not just pulling things just for the sake of pulling.

For example, Tales uses a gatcha system in it's weapon system. Characters are free. The rare weapons make the characters stronger, however, you can get very far just by using the lower rarity wepons. The game has a good story and a lot of fan service for series fans which is why I am playing it.

Gatcha is a mechanic. Not every game that has it has to be compared to a casino.
 

TheYanger

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
10,153
Because gambling is addicting.
Simple as that.

That said, yeah, gacha isn't a genre, it's a mechanic ^

I don't love opening lots of common blades in XB2, but I sure as fuck do love opening the rare ones, and I think the game would probably be fine wihtout that mechanic, but the stuff that annoys me with it is more to do with some of the usability surrounding it (How long it takes to open them, how long it takes to dismiss the shitty ones, etc).
 

Deleted member 5535

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
13,656
I'm not disputing this, but everyone's aware that this is literally how anything fun operates, right? I get the impression from these discussions that the couple of articles published about lootbox design and psychology caused a moral panic because people didn't know that the same techniques have been around for ages.




Again, Japan already does this.

I think it's a good policy, but I'm also curious as to how this affects people's perceptions of people who buy into randomized microtransactions. It's pretty common knowledge that buying a lottery ticket is negative EV, and consequentially it's not really uncommon to deride people who do (which may or may not also have to do with demographic reasons, but that's a discussion for OT), but if people know that something specific they're rolling for has a pitifully low rate, does that make them idiots or gambling-addicted loser cats?

That first part is totally true. If people think that companies didn't that even before lootboxes and MTX, they are blind. These people are being paid for it for more ages and not only in the video game industry.
 

Vadara

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,565
This forum really doesn't want to admit that random chances/pseudo-gambling is inherently fun (if a silly waste of money in the end) and insists that these games are only popular because manipulation or some other canard like that.

Like no, people just like to gamble lol
 

saenima

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
11,892
This gacha shit is probably the worst 'mechanic' i ever encountered in any game. Ever.
And apart from being pretty much gambling i see no other reason whatsoever why people would enjoy it.
 

Yunyo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,824
I'm going to suppose you don't play any Gatchas right ? While the feeling to collect new things is real, it isn't the end game by any means.
You're not just pulling things just for the sake of pulling.

For example, Tales uses a gatcha system in it's weapon system. Characters are free. The rare weapons make the characters stronger, however, you can get very far just by using the lower rarity wepons. The game has a good story and a lot of fan service for series fans which is why I am playing it.

Gatcha is a mechanic. Not every game that has it has to be compared to a casino.

While I'd like to believe this is the case, whenever I see people discuss mobile games like Fate/GO or the Tales mobile games, literally all they talk about and discuss are the rolls.

Roll this, roll that; they don't care about the game, they want the rush of gacha. Twitter posts about rolls, facebook posts about rolls, even here on Reset the mobile conversation is dominated by how good or bad your rolls are. If an outside observer who didn't know anything about this games looked in, they would have no idea people were actually talking about games that had plots or stories.

In the end I think we have to admit that gambling is what by mass majority fuels the popularity, just like that poster described.