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SAB-CA

Member
Nov 30, 2017
1,159
Remember years back, when Xbox had the "Bringing It Home" iniative with E3? That was how we got the Too Human demo, even. And maybe something Lost Planet?

At that time, I thought that'd be the future of these events. TOTALLY WRONG! Best we get now are releases of full products, which is good too. But many modern games ignore the work of so many products, and act as if these things are just wished into existance. An embarassing viewpoint.
 

Stiler

Avenger
Oct 29, 2017
6,659
People really saying because consumers can't handle it?

Cause many games come out from E3 with obvious "differences" from the E3 trailer and go on to both sell just fine and review fine, see Witcheir 3, Far Cry, AC, heck just about any big AAA game.
 

Edgar

User requested ban
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
7,180
People really saying because consumers can't handle it?

Cause many games come out from E3 with obvious "differences" from the E3 trailer and go on to both sell just fine and review fine, see Witcheir 3, Far Cry, AC, heck just about any big AAA game.
Did you forget about the shitstorm when it came to witcher and watch dogs downgrades? in 2015/2014 you could not have a month without a thread about it
 

Qudi

Member
Jul 26, 2018
5,318
Because people will always compare the demo with the final product. During production many things change over time, whether for artistic or technical reasons.
 

Messofanego

Member
Oct 25, 2017
26,131
UK
I remember a few years after the 360 was released that there was an initiative to release E3 demos of games that were on the show floor publicly on Xbox Live.

Why wasn't this continued? It would bring a whole new excitement to E3 if a demo like the one for Final Fantasy VII Remake was released for everyone to try.
Here's the thing about vertical slices, they break if you don't follow the very scripted path of the conference demo. They're not actually games yet. Watch PTOPOnline's runthrough of Ghost Recon Future Soldier E3 2010 that wasn't meant to be played by journalists. It's very enlightening in general about E3 demos:
 

Dussck

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,136
The Netherlands
Because when you play the Cyberpunk 2077 2019 E3 demo, if you go through door number 2 instead of 1, you'll fall through the world and the whole game crashes.

Probably.
 
Jun 1, 2018
4,523
Times have changed.

iu
is this true? the suit looks so much more realistic in the e3 demo?
 

Death Penalty

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
3,291
People really saying because consumers can't handle it?

Cause many games come out from E3 with obvious "differences" from the E3 trailer and go on to both sell just fine and review fine, see Witcheir 3, Far Cry, AC, heck just about any big AAA game.
An unstable E3 style demo is more likely to give consumers a poor impression of your product, and yes the public would tear it apart. Showing it to press who are more likely to understand the process and be forgiving makes way more sense. The press is basically a collection of advertisers when it comes to gaming.
 

modiz

Member
Oct 8, 2018
17,831
There are multiple reasons.
E3 demos are not as polished as public demos
Avoiding data mining
If the developers are not confident enough in the current state of your game, demos might end up deterring a lot of potential buyers.

is this true? the suit looks so much more realistic in the e3 demo?
Oh shit here we go again . Gif
 

EarthPainting

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,875
Town adjacent to Silent Hill
People sometimes have trouble grasping the concept of a WIP build, and that can give a project negative momentum. But even for perfectly polished vertical slices, you also run the risk of datamining. Maybe the streaming future will open up some possibilities on this front though.
 

Oregano

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,878
Look up the Treehouse demo of the new Yooka Laylee. It straight up didn't work in a way good enough for consumers.
 

KORNdog

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
8,001

i was just about to use this example. people go off the rails when a puddle moves. i can't even imagine how much shit would be flung at developers if they had access to unfinished alpha code. i mean, if a fully polished demo has been proven to put more people off a purchase than convince them of one, then i dread to think what an unpolished early version would do.
 

snausages

Member
Feb 12, 2018
10,337
When I hear 'behind closed doors demo' I take it to mean that the game's still looking (and running) rough and isn't ready for primetime. Game journalists understand the process and know that what is being shown is in an early state and isn't necessarily indicative of the final product, but if you release that footage online it's going to find its way to a more casual audience that won't understand and will just think the game looks like garbage. You don't want to advertise your game until it's looking its best.
Yes, I remember seeing off screen footage of "behind closed doors" of BloodBorne and it looked really bad.
 

Elven_Star

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,958
Because concentrating on the negatives rather than the positives is the new cool. Just look at Era (look at this very post).
 

Theorry

Member
Oct 27, 2017
60,973
Its the same with showing gameplay. Gamers will pick everything apart like the full game is released already.
 

Green Yoshi

Attempted to circumvent ban with an alt account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,597
Cologne (Germany)
I hope Nintendo will release a Luigi's Mansion 3 demo before release.

Xbox 360 was a great console. Every Xbox Live game needed to have a demo.
 

Messofanego

Member
Oct 25, 2017
26,131
UK
is this true? the suit looks so much more realistic in the e3 demo?
Yes, but that's just a vertical slice made specifically for E3 so they can afford to give it a lot of polish because they're not building a whole world and its intricacies, just a short demo that will only be played by the company so not to show behind the curtains of how broken it all is off the beaten path. If they were to maintain the level of quality in the E3 demo, the framerate would tank most likely.
 

desu

Member
Oct 27, 2017
539
Lots of reasons:
- (public) demo costs development time that could be spent somewhere else (due to data mining/hacking)
- the version has to be in a playable state for more configurations that the single dev system you are working on
- the current demo might not be representative of what the game will be in 6-12 months and it might backfire on you

The average joe has no clue of how game development works. So an "early" demo of a title that is still 6-12 months away makes a lot of work and you might get nothing in return (or even bad news about how much your game sucks).
 

Platy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
27,644
Brazil
Released demos need to go though a lot of certifications and q&a that the final game also need to go through. It is not only insanely more work but also costs more.

And all that to give a 15fps avengers gameplay that the average Joe will complain it is not rock solid 60 fps
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,308
United States
My bad. Regardless, same logic could apply to whatever event. Demos are a great way to supplement an event.

Agreed! I have faith that Nintendo's E3 demos (The Legend of Zelda: Link's Awakening, Luigi's Mansion 3, and Marvel Ultimate Alliance 3: The Black Order) were stable builds that could receive an eShop release. After all, anybody was invited to go hands-on with those games that week at the flagship Nintendo NY store and select Best Buy locations.
 

Japanmanx3

One Winged Slayer
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
5,908
Atlanta, GA
If you were a chef and made up a new recipe but hadn't quite finalized the one and outs of it, would you want to have taste testing session with just a few patrons? Or would you want to let everyone and their mom try the dish, without being finalized? What if your dish sucks atm? Would you be cool with letting everyone form an opinion on it, even though it wasn't being presented in its final form? Not all critics would be fair in their judgement. And everyone else who was hype about your food from a distance, might feel completely different if Jimmy from next door tells them it's gutter trash...

Probably not worth the risk. On the converse though, everyone at E3 should be doing a Treehouse styled showing of their games. Bringing the E3 feels right into the crib is such an amazing experience. Nintendo has set that standard heavily!
 
Nov 23, 2017
4,992
The E3 demos were meant for industry folks to get their hands on a sample so that they can talk about them. Gamers being allowed to go to E3 changed that a bit but E3 itself is still tailored to industry people so the messaging is uneven. Honestly, we shouldn't expect these demos. Their just showcase pieces for an industry expo.
 

mclem

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,449
With a select group of carefully selected demos that probably isn't the reflective of the state of most pre-release games?

It's the reason you don't see demos as much anymore period. Those things take time and money to put together in a state fit for mass consumption and simply aren't worth the effort.

Thinking about it, the most prerelease demos I've seen of late have been on Switch. Daemon X Machina, Splatoon 1 and 2, Kirby Star Allies, Yoshi's Crafted World, Arms, DQ Builders, Snipperclips, Octopath... and I'm sure I've missed some on top of that.
 

EvilBoris

Prophet of Truth - HDTVtest
Verified
Oct 29, 2017
16,680
Because they don't have a rep standing next to you at home to remind you that framerate is not final, that big won't happen in the final game and anything else that is not quite right or maybe negative will be fixed.

Also presumably there is a certification/testing and rating process that has to be gone through even for demos.

Imagine the outrage when Demo build 0.10.60234 bricks your PS4
 

Deleted member 1635

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,800
Can't do that, especially in the current climate where the build will be broken down and analyzed and every single thing about it will be scrutinized and criticized to hell and back.

No point in risking some kind of massive PR disaster or hashtag campaign to have something about your game changed.
 

Conal

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
2,868
Someone will extract all the files and post the ending of the unannounced sequel on Youtube.
 

elenarie

Game Developer
Verified
Jun 10, 2018
9,799
Having participated in and organised 5 EA Play, E3 and Gamescom events now, you really don't want to be playing most games at home, based on what is shown at the events and the work that goes into those.

Speaking only for Battlefield, progression, online services and any sort of persistence is removed as the backend services are usually neither ready nor up to scale, if we were to somehow get them ready on time. So our events are done on local servers running very specialised event-only software with no UI, no FrontEnd, and clients connect directly on the server via direct IP and port usage.
Games have tendencies to crash or hang or whatever. In the Gamescom demo last year where we were showing off RTX, we had a nasty crash where if a grenade is thrown through a very specific window, everyone on the server would crash. Only happened a few times, but that meant that we had to reboot 64 clients in matter of seconds so that people don't get angry that their play session just ended.

While we ourselves do not do any special hacks and fake things, and I am super proud of what we've done over the years with how we've improved our event management and setup, where last year we likely had the biggest ever single game setup at a conference like the above with 256 PC and 40 Xbox clients and got several thousands of people to play the game, I really wouldn't give that experience to folks at home, as simply it is not reliable. :)

Not to mention, how many games actually fake things, including creating whole levels or experiences literally to just show the game (a complete throwaway work in terms of time and costs) at an event in the best possible light. :)
 

horkrux

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,715
It would be nice to have access to them at some point, if only for preservation. I'm not sure whether publishers/devs consider them worth preserving...
 

HotSauceMaven

Member
Oct 9, 2018
237
A majority of the time, those demos are on PC Dev Kits and not yet tuned for the console they're supposed to be released on anyways, correct?
 

Lethologica

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,178
I miss Microsoft's E3@Home they used to do. Playng the Lost Planet Demo at the same time the press was playing it was kind of neat.
 

Fredrik

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,003
Todays gamers don't get excited to play a game after trying a rushed and broken demo of a game. They go to the internet boards and tell everybody how bad it is and how unlikely it is that the faults ever get fixed.

It would be much better if games simply weren't shown until just before the release. Then we would get excited to see a fully funtional and polished game and get to preorder it directly after and get it before the excitement has decreased. The norm of showing a mostly fake target version or even just a logo 5 years before a game comes out needs to stop.

Best scenario is the Apple style: "It's available... Today.".

Worst case scenario should be : "It's available... Next month.".

The current scenario when we're not even sure that we'll get the game before we need to buy new hardware is just dumb.