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NTGYK

Attempted to circumvent ban with an alt-account
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
3,470
I know that these attitudes exist in every country (hell, sometimes you wanna knock out an Albertan for spewing stuff about the rest of the country), but it feels that in America, there is a strain of just hatred that has persisted for decades and centuries. Donald Trump gave a voice to this breed of American hater but that fact that he'll retain something like 40% of the country's support regardless of what he does says too much about how America is so weirdly disparate and cobbled together. I've read a bit about the Southern Strategy, and these divisions have existed since the Civil War, and it continues to survive and thrive to this day, but what exactly is this animosity that was once veiled under the name "economic anxiety" stem from? Why do Republicans have such widespread support? Where are American attitudes bred from? Now I'm not referring to all Americans, but there is a sizable contingent of Americans, large enough that it's difficult to discuss them as a fringe movement that support isolationist/bigoted positions pretty much from the outset without wanting to debate or listen. Is it a broken education system? Essentially, why would you rather vote for someone that in the long run is gonna harm you and yours, but you'll vote them in because their positions are that they'll block people different than you from achieving the same or better than you? Jealousy? Is Manifest Destiny such a strong belief that certain Americans genuinely believe it's a real creed to live by?

The reason I'm asking is I read that story about the Florida governor blaming the New York governor and New York residents for spreading the virus. Like... bitch, it's a virus. It doesn't look at borders or your political stance. It just wants to spread and spread and probably kill people. You're better off working with your fellow Americans than playing this divisive shit in the face of a literal existential threat. How can people's hatred be that strong that they're happy New York or California or whatever is suffering, even if you know that same suffering is coming for you?
 

ILikeFeet

DF Deet Master
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
61,987
old white people want to go back to a time where they can own black people and call them niggers. simple as that. anyone who doesn't support that notion of supremacy is the enemy. capitalism was propped up by similar racist rhetoric so any notion of socialism is also branded as bad
 

Shake Appeal

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,883
Toxic brew of slavery, failure of Reconstruction, radical individualism, "exceptionalist" myth-making, religious zealotry, false consciousness, and economic precarity.
 

nsilvias

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,701
age old rivalires vs the south and north, rural and urban
racism
america being brainwashed into thinking its the greatest in the world and shitting on anyone who says otherwise
people thinking america is on the cutting edge of everything and thinking anyone who is a minority comes from a third world country
etc
 

Maccix

Member
Jan 10, 2018
1,250
From the outside it looks like america is an occupied country after a war. Like if germany would have stayed in france for 80 years. I try to understand the endgame here, cause the political split and hate doesn't seem to get better over time. But maybe I'm getting this wrong.
 
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NTGYK

NTGYK

Attempted to circumvent ban with an alt-account
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
3,470
I've visited a lot of places in the world, rich places and poor places, and tbh... no one had a positive impression of Americans. Actually looking at America, huge portions of the country are not much better than the actual third world.

I'm glad I'm Canadian, cause even tho we have plenty of divides and problems here, I very rarely see just the level of anger and vitriol towards our own people as I see Americans do to other Americans.
 
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NTGYK

NTGYK

Attempted to circumvent ban with an alt-account
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
3,470
Toxic brew of slavery, failure of Reconstruction, radical individualism, "exceptionalist" myth-making, religious zealotry, false consciousness, and economic precarity.

Oh man, these American myths of 'exceptionalism' are crazy. The individual over the collective at all times is just bonkers to me.

What do you mean by economic precarity and failure of Reconstruction tho?
 

AlexBasch

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,307
Maybe I have been overreacting for the last 15 years (ever since I started using the internet) but I do my best to avoid direct interaction with Americans. I feel that the second they know I'm mexican, I'll be called "beaner", "taco eater", "wetback" and other lovely terms, which has happened over the years. It's just not worth it and it's the main reason I never feel like playing any kind of videogames with any american players. They seem so overly aggresive and hurtful just for the sake of pride or God knows why.
 

Speevy

Member
Oct 26, 2017
19,321
We are taught from a young age that everyone is lucky to live here, so we go around discriminating against everyone who doesn't feel lucky at all.
 

ryseing

Bought courtside tickets just to read a book.
Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,546
For lovers
What do you mean by economic precarity and failure of Reconstruction tho?

I can't speak expertly on the economic precarity, but as for Reconstruction, basically for political reasons the federal government restored full rights to the former Confederate states way sooner than they should have, leading to among other things almost a century of Jim Crow laws.
 

grand

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,895
America has always been too big for it's own good and slavery created deep divides the country never recovered from. Income inequality and the nationalism of politics have only made it worse. You're basically watching a drawn out duel to the death between rural and urban America that's been going on since the late 1800s/early 1900s.
 
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NTGYK

NTGYK

Attempted to circumvent ban with an alt-account
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
3,470
after the civil war we didnt do shit to punish the confederacy, we let alot of them stay in power.
I can't speak expertly on the economic precarity, but as for Reconstruction, basically for political reasons the fderal government restored full rights to the former Confederate states way sooner than they should have, leading to among other things almost a century of Jim Crow laws.
Oh, so that explains why no one ever punishes racist or bigoted Republicans or shirks their policies? It's business as usual?
 
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NTGYK

NTGYK

Attempted to circumvent ban with an alt-account
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
3,470
America has always been too big for it's own good and slavery created deep divides the country never recovered from. Income inequality and the nationalism of politics have only made it worse. You're basically watching a drawn out duel to the death between rural and urban America that's been going on since the late 1800s/early 1900s.
Won't rural America eventually die out? I find it hard to imagine a scenario where tons of Millenials and the next two generations wanna keep living in dying/small towns or places that don't have much of a future. Maybe I'm wrong on my perception of the American rural life tho.
 

TheMadTitan

Member
Oct 27, 2017
27,190
Oh man, these American myths of 'exceptionalism' are crazy. The individual over the collective at all times is just bonkers to me.

What do you mean by economic precarity and failure of Reconstruction tho?
Everyone is living paycheck to paycheck, so they do nothing but strive to stretch that paycheck as long as possible, even though shorting it slightly in the short term would benefit them more in the long term. For example, tax increases involved in universal healthcare. They'd rather risk harm than "give their money to someone who doesn't deserve it" even though giving more would help them out in case of emergencies. You know, like the one we're in now.
 

DukeBlueBall

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
9,059
Seattle, WA
Large republic with diverse people, geography, politics, economy, society. It's human nature.

Also people vs land. American democracy has the unique aspect where land itself has too much power.
 

ryseing

Bought courtside tickets just to read a book.
Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,546
For lovers
Oh, so that explains why no one ever punishes racist or bigoted Republicans or shirks their policies? It's business as usual?

The South was basically left to its own devices from the end of Reconstruction to the Civil Rights Era, leading to some fucked up attitudes that are dug in deep to this day, and yes, the bigoted Republicans definitely stem from this.
 

Voytek

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,800
Lot of people can't break away from how/where they were raised. You grow up learning and thinking a certain way it can be hard to see things differently and if someone tries to make you to see differently you either be opened minded about it and admit much of what you've been taught might be wrong or you fight against it. It's way easier to be stubborn and fight against things than it is to admit you've been taught or raised wrong.
 

thewienke

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,928
Lots of white people grew up during a time when 90%+ of the population of a lot of major cities were white and nearly everyone in media was white except for things like music. They remember what their cities looked and felt like before waves of immigration changed a lot of the identity of those communities.

So I think a lot of it is rooted in a nostalgia for the old days of the white monoculture and before multiculturalism. When they hear "Make America Great Again" those old images of a nearly entirely white America is what gets conjured up.
 

grand

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,895
Won't rural America eventually die out? I find it hard to imagine a scenario where tons of Millenials and the next two generations wanna keep living in dying/small towns or places that don't have much of a future. Maybe I'm wrong on my perception of the American rural life tho.
Yes. And that's the problem. Everyone knows it a losing battle, which is why everyone doubles down. If you're 60, spent your enitire life watching the romanticism of rural America life, only to now have social security running out, everything changing socially and rural America dying... You're gonna get more stubborn. The inevitably of decay has never made people more agreeable. Humanity only responds to hope or at least the potential of such.

Hence why the Liar in Chief took off. He's telling them everything they want to hear, even if it's false. The only way forward is to reach out and present actual hope or to wait out the inevitably of death*



*Yes, it's hard to reach out when so many have reverted to racism & hatred. But that isn't everyone, though it's certainly the vocal majority
 

samoyed

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
15,191
We determined preserving the Union was more important than committing to justice and we're still paying the price incurred from that decision. A lot of potential progress was given up to keep the country from falling apart.
 

collige

Member
Oct 31, 2017
12,772
Our country was founded by the people who were too crazy religious for Britain. I blame the puritans.

And racism ofc, but they amped that shit up too.
 

Deleted member 6230

User-requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,118
Oh man, these American myths of 'exceptionalism' are crazy. The individual over the collective at all times is just bonkers to me.

What do you mean by economic precarity and failure of Reconstruction tho?
Basically and to put it succinctly, free slaves didn't get their 40 acres and a mile instead they got terrorized and apartheid
 

Typhonsentra

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,947
Desantis and Trump both know they are fucked for how they handled this. Their strategy from here on is to just blame "Foreigners", even when just talking about people from other states. If I were Xi, I'd go overboard right now offering aid to New York for dirt cheap.
 
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NTGYK

NTGYK

Attempted to circumvent ban with an alt-account
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
3,470
Desantis and Trump both know they are fucked for how they handled this. Their strategy from here on is to just blame "Foreigners", even when just talking about people from other states. If I were Xi, I'd go overboard right now offering aid to New York for dirt cheap.
I wonder if Canada will also lend American states a hand during this, tho Xi might do it for the PR boost.
 
Mar 7, 2020
2,959
USA
mix of american exceptionalism, and racism. Just look at the current pandemic situation, in Asia, the general public are putting on mask to protect each other, but US, or heck even this board you have people constantly parroting the "THE MASK WON"T PROTECT YOU FROM CORONAVIRUS" when the whole point is to protect others. It' not about Me me me.
 
Jun 10, 2018
8,813
Eugenics based ideologies have long fueled the racial caste system set up in Western and Western-influenced societies. The grander populace that believes it in, even if members of a "lower" designation, will thus react in opposition to any deviance to this racial caste structure.
 

Powdered Egg

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
17,070
Oh man, these American myths of 'exceptionalism' are crazy. The individual over the collective at all times is just bonkers to me.

What do you mean by economic precarity and failure of Reconstruction tho?
Check out The Compromise of 1877. Black people got fucked, the Army pulled out of occupying the South and the KKK got nearly a century of impunity.
 

Pandora012

Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
5,495
I'm glad I'm Canadian, cause even tho we have plenty of divides and problems here, I very rarely see just the level of anger and vitriol towards our own people as I see Americans do to other Americans.

I'm gonna go out on a limb an say that there are probably some people in your country that don't feel that way.
 

Titik

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,490
Reconstructions pretty much failed so you still have traitors running around even after 120 years.
 

krazen

Member
Oct 27, 2017
13,117
Gentrified Brooklyn
A fucked up brainwashing that makes an inherently evil and self serving republic believe we we are the good guys in everything we do to a large amount of the populace. All countries do this to a certain extent but wow, we take the fucking cake.


Slavery = Fight for Southern rights.
Bombing Middle East and Africa = Setting people free
Funding tyrannical dictators to fuel genocide= Protecting democracy

We've spent so much time selling evil acts as inherently good acts that the moral compass is all fucked up (add self righteous Christianity in the mix and the cognitive dissonance is off the fucking scale).

My turning point was arguing the Iraq war with a bunch of school friends and have them insist America's was doing good in the middle east and not only that, we were the only country that understood and pushed the concept 'good' in the world (and it would be an easy explanation if these were radical Christians, but ya avg just nyers with a blue collar family background) and I knew it was only a matter of time until this house of cards folded.
 
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Khanimus

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
40,141
Greater Vancouver
America is built on grand notions of self-importance at the dismissal or outright subjugation of those they deem lesser. It also just so happens that America's internalized lore, celebrating its own imperialistic atrocities, is easily weaponized as pride and justification these atrocities. To continue the contradiction of peoples' own hardship by targeting pointless scapegoats as threats to that internalized identity.

Nothing like turning the poor against eachother to distract from their rage pointing towards those actually inflicting damage.
 

Eeyore

User requested ban
Banned
Dec 13, 2019
9,029
The divide is urban and rural which is a divide that's present in many other countries as far as culture and politics go. It's no surprise that cities are where more younger people flock to and more job centers are located. The bitterness in folks in rural areas is two fold. With the advent of the Internet, they have access to see this more and more and two and more importantly that they have been left behind. There is less investment in these communities. These towns have industries move on to places like China and Mexico. If you visit some of these 'backwaters' you'll see poverty that is similar to many third world countries. Infrastructure has largely not been invested heavily since Eisenhower's administration post WW2 in these communities.

Now they're still racist shitbags, but I can't blame them for being mad at the government, I just think they're mad for the wrong reasons.
 

Deleted member 8861

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
10,564
America is fundamentally broken as a society because it consists of people who realize and dedicate themselves to making American society reckon with the fact that it is an inherently self-contradictory, farcical culture, those who will fight tooth and nail to sustain their delusion of a proud and free America, and those who are stuck in between.
 

thediamondage

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,229
don't mistake what you see on TV and what you read online with what really happens. era is very lopsided in making snap judgements and in reality most people get along just fine and will help out those who need help around them. Americans tend to be tribal, cynical, skeptical, etc but honestly not much different than many other countries especially when you look at Asia, South America, Africa, etc.

The truth is America is not really very different than anywhere else, Americans just tend to be a bit more open and loud and arguementative about their prejudices and fears. As the world grapples with more immigration refugee crisis, climate change effects on food and water, and of course everything we are seeing about covid19 now, you'll see a lot more racism, xenophobia, tribalism, etc pop up.
 
Mar 18, 2020
2,434
It's a country founded by sociopathic rejects from England with white superiority and hatred baked in, and corruption keeps it going. What do you expect?

Also feel free to ignore the apologists.
 

Dalek

Member
Oct 25, 2017
38,893
My mother grew up in the Deep South and was born in 1956. To this day she is still ranting and raving about how unfair the North treats the South and how the Civil War was misinterpreted and how her parents worked hard but welfare queens take their money, etc etc etc. She had nothing to do with that Civil War but her parents raised her and her siblings in that rhetoric-and they were brainwashed into always having a victim mentality. Everything with her is an Us vs Them issue. And if everyone would just vote Republican and let them fix everything we would all live in peace for ever and ever.
 

Mekanos

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 17, 2018
44,106
Racism, misogyny (second wave feminism might as well have not even happened here), neoliberalism + red scare propaganda, evangelicalism, colonialism. We just got it all, baby!

I guess we're okay on gay rights? We were one of the first countries to legalize same sex marriage, I think?

But mostly it sucks.

My turning point was arguing the Iraq war with a bunch of school friends and have them insist America's was doing good in the middle east and not only that, we were the only country that understood and pushed the concept 'good' in the world (and it would be an easy explanation if these were radical Christians, but ya avg just nyers with a blue collar family background) and I knew it was only a matter of time until this house of cards folded.

I had a similar awakening. I argued with friends in middle school about how there were not WMDs in Iraq and we had no reason to be there. It really sowed my distaste for how we operate as a military-based nation-state where we just plunder as we please.
 

S-Wind

Member
Nov 4, 2017
2,174
Racism, misogyny (second wave feminism might as well have not even happened here), neoliberalism + red scare propaganda, evangelicalism, colonialism. We just got it all, baby!

I guess we're okay on gay rights? We were one of the first countries to legalize same sex marriage, I think?

You guys were 23rd.

1 The Netherlands
2 Belgium
3 Canada
4 Spain
5 South Africa
6 Norway
7 Sweden
8 Argentina
9 Iceland
10 Portugal
11 Denmark
12 Brazil
13 England
14 Wales
15 France
16 Uruguay
17 New Zealand
18 Luxembourg
19 Scotland
20 Finland
21 Greenland
22 Ireland
23 United States
24 Colombia
25 Australia

Fifteen years after the Netherlands, and a full decade after Canada.
 

Mekanos

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 17, 2018
44,106
You guys were 23rd.

1 The Netherlands
2 Belgium
3 Canada
4 Spain
5 South Africa
6 Norway
7 Sweden
8 Argentina
9 Iceland
10 Portugal
11 Denmark
12 Brazil
13 England
14 Wales
15 France
16 Uruguay
17 New Zealand
18 Luxembourg
19 Scotland
20 Finland
21 Greenland
22 Ireland
23 United States
24 Colombia
25 Australia

Fifteen years after the Netherlands, and a full decade after Canada.

Hmmmmm, damn, I take it back. We suck!
 

Illusion

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,407
People feel out of control with the world where they have no control.

So they belittle, call names and try to make you lose your cool so they feel powerful. All different types and reason why.
 

ABIC

Banned
Nov 19, 2017
1,170
Hard to talk about; would take a huge study and lots of data for it to be a comprehensive answer.

I don't think it's a coincidence that coastal states are in general a lot more liberal than inland states. That position means a lot more inflow of international traffic and over the long term, a diverse population. You get to know other races, cultures and food.

There is also a huge difference between urban and rural life and needs. It's also no coincidence that rural life tends to be much less diverse, because few foreign immigrant would plant themselves in an area without support (hence the enclaves like China Towns in every major city). But outside of diversity there's also real different needs, like the means of self defence when your nearest neighbor can be 20 minutes drive away.

There really isn't a one-policy-fits-all politics for the United States. It has so many different needs and different levels of progression. That divide can cause hate.

Lastly I always wonder if the early settlers composed of the expulsed zealots from the UK retains a strong influence. There's a deep fervor here, where that tribalism reserved for sports has uniquely spilled out into other areas; namely nationalism. There are a ton of American flags everywhere. That fervor is easily twisted into hate.
 
Oct 26, 2017
17,358
Hate makers people feel powerful and superior, and when wielded well can make people feel like they're a part of something, have some role and purpose in life