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James or Sirius?

  • James was kind of a jerk

    Votes: 618 62.0%
  • Snape WAS a loser

    Votes: 379 38.0%

  • Total voters
    997

sirap

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,232
South East Asia
Tbf to Harry, I don't blame him for not wanting to go back to Hogwarts and teach. Outside of Sirius PTSD isn't something that's touched on a lot in the books but I imagine it's something Harry struggles with after the final battle.

Hell if I experienced the same thing he did, I would've tapped out by book 3 and fucked off to Asia.

Plus teaching could always be something he can come back to once he's done with his auror career.
 

callamp

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,489
James was a flawed individual and Snape was an incel whose friendship group included mass murders.

There is just no way that the stuff Snape was doing at school wasn't morally worse than James bullying Snape.

That one joined The Order as soon as they left school and the other joined the Death Eater speaks volumes.
 

Capra

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,702
Yo what are these poll results

Don't stan for the teenage incel wizard nazi guys what the fuck
 

Thequietone

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,052
Asshole tier is Dumbledore > Snape > James

I'd actually put a few people in between Snape and James but I'd be here awhile. I like Snape's character especially portrayed by Alan Rickman but he was definitely an asshole. A complex one but an asshole nonetheless.

If people are wondering why I put Dumbledore over Snape its because he could have put an end to Voldemort and Grindlewald a lot sooner than he did. Plus some things he said and did. Again I'd be here awhile listing.
 

Titik

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,490
The only reason why Snape even started helping the good guys was because he couldn't let go of his obsession with Lily.

and yeah Dumbledore is the biggest asshole in all of this. He could have prevented many things if he wasn't obsessed with Grindlewald's cock.
 

BossAttack

Member
Oct 27, 2017
43,191
I think the poll result is really a useful statement about how platforming can engender empathy and sympathy

Snape gets so much more platform in the book series so people are inclined to empathize with him more even if it's so blatantly obvious the odious shit he did and believed in

Agreed.

Like, I recognize that James was a bully, but Snape was a goddamn racist who joined the Nazis. That is defacto worse. Also makes me wonder if this is an example of nonsensical civility at work. Where the greatest crime in a battle against literal evil is straying from civility.
 

N64Controller

Member
Nov 2, 2017
8,402
James was a bad person at heart during those times. He enjoyed bullying, and did it while laughing. Enjoyed mentally torturing people. But he eventually grew and some time after school, he became a decent person. Snape was also a bad person, and never became a good person. He overall did a lot worse than James in their future lives. This is not even a contest.

However, the poll answers suck. The problem with Snape isn't that he's a LOSER, it's that he's a wizard nazi. These poll answers alone will skew people towards voting for James.

To answer the question, in overall school years, Snape was the worst because he became an actual nazi. Same for their future lives. But in the context of their interactions, it was James. He didn't bully Snape BECAUSE he's a nazi, he bullied him because he looked weird, smelled weird, acted weird and liked the same girl he did. He wanted to show his power, like any stereotypical bully.
 

Capra

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,702
Did we ever actually see James bullying people outside that scene where he literally uses Snape's own spell against him?

Like what I'm seeing is a nazi telling people about the time the so-called tolerant left punched him in the face and people falling over themselves to feel bad for the literal wizard nazi
 

Ithil

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,436
Probably the racist guy that invented spells for slashing people to death then joined the Wizard Nazis after graduating.
 

Tavernade

Tavernade
Moderator
Sep 18, 2018
8,735
I imagine Snape winning is somewhat due to a lot of us (like myself) forgetting he joined the Death Eaters before he graduated, and his sympathetic ending made me forget how racist he was earlier. We know less about James so the first thought is he was a bully, whereas Snape got more rounded.
 

Xenoblade 3

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,965
New York City
I didn't know all of this about Snape wow. All I remembered was him picking on Harry, his crush on Harry's mom, betraying Dumbledore, and getting bullied lol.
My memories of the movies past the first 3 or 4 are vague.
All I remembered about James was the bullying.
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,483
Of course when you see Snape's memories he sees himself as the victim, and that his lifelong love for Lily was some pure thing. Typical possessive 'friendzoned' incel behaviour. He called Lily a racial epithet. He joined the wizard Nazis. He told Voldemort about the prophecy that lead to Neville's parents being tortured and Harry's being killed. When he found out that Harry was the prophecy child he didn't care about him or James being killed, only Lily. Then as a teacher he abused and terrorised children for years because he's a cunt. Don't believe his shitty internal narrative and justification for his actions.
 
Oct 27, 2017
15,121
If it's true that Snape joined the super wizard Nazi death cult before he even left school then there's really no contest here.
 

Vonocourt

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,647
Already been said but it's a Nazi incel versus a guy who bullied the Nazi incel for being a Nazi incel.
 

Brandino

Avenger
Jan 9, 2018
2,104
Movie Snape is a lot less of a dick than book Snape. I wonder how many people voting have only seen the movies?
 

Ryan.

Prophet of Truth
The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
12,934
What are these poll results? Some of y'all need to read/reread the books.
 

cartographer

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,026
I blame Rowling for going for the redeemed angle with Snape instead of the "accepting that he was a monster but sometimes monsters help you" angle.
 

Common Knowledge

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,309
Alan Rickman's Snape I think is what many people shape their perception of the character on. He played the character fantastically but also a bit more sympathetic and a little more endearing than the character in the books.
 

M.J.

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,059
Alan Rickman's Snape I think is what many people shape their perception of the character on. He played the character fantastically but also a bit more sympathetic and a little more endearing than the character in the books.

Yup, the perfect endearing villain!

If you leave out Rickman's Snape, it's tough to side with somebody who willingly joins the Hitler Youth vs. a teenage cool-kid/bully. I've only seen the movies and it's interesting to see some of the posts here. The movies didn't make Snape look worse than James Potter for me.
 
Last edited:

Deleted member 60096

User requested account closure
Banned
Sep 20, 2019
1,295
Snape was a literal wizard nazi, he deserved to be bullied.
The only reason why Snape even started helping the good guys was because he couldn't let go of his obsession with Lily.

and yeah Dumbledore is the biggest asshole in all of this. He could have prevented many things if he wasn't obsessed with Grindlewald's cock.
Yep even in his "redemption" Snape still managed to be a shitty creep
 

Flame Flamey

Member
Feb 8, 2018
4,628
Not his school days, but what's the justification given by Snape defenders regarding his bad treatment of non-Harry students, particularly Neville?

It better not be something like "Snape wishes Voldemort had went after Neville instead so Lily would still be alive"
 

Aaron

I’m seeing double here!
Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,077
Minneapolis
Nah Snape sucks. Great character but as a person he's horrible. Even setting aside their high school selves (which Snape still comes out much worse for), dude spent his life as an adult terrorizing his students. If he just had a beef with Harry specifically that'd be one thing, but then you look at how he treats Hermione and Neville throughout the series and you realize he hasn't outgrown his Hitler Youth ideals.

James was a bully but that doesn't outweigh Snape casting his lot with the Death Eaters, even while being good friends with Lily who he simply categorized as "one of the good ones" and turned on eventually anyway. James also saved Snape's life which means even while being a bit of a shit he still had a working moral compass and a line he wouldn't cross, Snape invented spells that would kill people slowly and painfully.

Fuck Snape. Harry should have named his son Albus Rubeus, although admittedly Hagrid would have probably been happier with a dog being named after him.
 

Bronx-Man

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
15,351
j1atjwrzn2v21.jpg
Well that sums up my transition from Obama liberal to ML commie in 2 years.
 

Dot-N-Run

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,044
I never liked Snape throughout any book.

The whole backstory given to 'justify' his behaviour isn't even tragic, loser is an apt description for him.

If he was a muggle he'd be out there right now marching with his tiki torch held high.
 

n00bs7ay3r

Attempted to circumvent ban with an alt-account
Banned
Aug 21, 2018
1,159
Not his school days, but what's the justification given by Snape defenders regarding his bad treatment of non-Harry students, particularly Neville?

It better not be something like "Snape wishes Voldemort had went after Neville instead so Lily would still be alive"
My guess is that it is because Neville is a pure blood but not a particularly adept wizard in the ways that Snape values. He sees Neville as being weak and a threat to the idea that pure blood wizards are inherently superior to people with muggle ancestry.
 

Rampage

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,154
Metro Detriot
James much more of a loser in his school days than Snape, because he came from privileged, well to do family. He was a spoiled, pure blooded brat.

James wasn't punching Nazis- Death eaters did not become a thing until after James graduated. Snape was neither a Slytherian or a death eater one his first trip to Hogswart- so what was James justification for picking on Snape then? His clothes? His hair? Talking to a girl? James was picking on anyone weaker and poorer than himself because he was raised with a chip on his shoulder.

Sorry, people don't grow out of being bullied- the scars of bulling stay with people for life. Snape came from an abusive household- hating the muggle side of himself. He final was going to escape to the wizarding world where life could be better, and his first introduction was two pure-bloods verbally abusing him and Lilly. He went from one place abusing him to another. It is no wonder Snape became enthralled first with Slytherian, then the Death Eaters- they welcomed him, made him feel wanted.

Snape, while evil, is tragic. The wizarding world is just as messed up as the real world when it comes to social services, racism, class, worshiping of celebrity sports figures. Instead teaching kids to get along, the whole system of Hogwarts was set up on bullshit house rivalries. It just breeding ground for life long enemies and resentment.

In a story world, James through his on hubris and actions creating his worst enemy, Snape. I expect better from story heroes.
 

Yasuke

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,817
Snape was a racist asshole to Lily's sister before any of them went to Hogwarts. But he was in love with Lily because Lily (unlike her sister) was racist-approved, despite her filthy Muggle heritage.

Lily was sorted into Team Gryffindor before either James or Snape (alphabetically, it went Evans > Potter > Snape), and when James was sorted into Team Gryffindor, Snape got jealous because he he saw James making eyes at his waifu. And yet, that jealousy still wasn't enough to get Snape to turn away from Team Slytherin, because Slytherin is the house that aligns with all of his racist ideals. Racism was more important to Snape than love, despite his incel whining about his unrequited love being the most important thing in the world.

James Potter made friends with Sirius Black, a kid who was thrown out of his house for rejecting racism, and let Sirius stay with him. James Potter learned how to become an animal in order to bridge the gap between himself and a kid who was afflicted with lycanthropy.

James and Lily became matching animals because they loved each other. They developed matching Patronuses because they loved each other. Snape made a copy of Lily's Patronus because he's an unhinged stalker.

Lily regularly stood up for Snape, despite everything Snape did and everyone telling Lily that Snape was trash. Until finally one day she took Snape's side after losing a fight with James, and Snape couldn't handle her pity, so he attacked her by revealing that he's disgusted by her Muggle heritage.

Snape went on to become a literal Wizard Nazi, and was fine with killing and torturing people, until the bridge too far was a threat against his unrequited waifu.

Snape is and always was 100% worse than James Potter. Doesn't matter if James kinda had some rough edges as a kid.

Boom.gif

I can't stop laughing at those poll results.

People are sick.
 

Toxi

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
17,552
A sizable percentage of the Wizard population aligns itself with Slytherin, so Dumbledore's hands are somewhat tied..
They really aren't. Dumbledore has done a ton of clandestine shit, which makes his inaction about Slytherin House all the more galling. Hell, he made Snape the potions professor and head of Slytherin House.


I blame Rowling for going for the redeemed angle with Snape instead of the "accepting that he was a monster but sometimes monsters help you" angle.
Outside Harry naming his son Severus for god knows what reason, Snape is never actually redeemed.
 

Timmm

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,894
Manchester, UK
Regarding the poll: Snape is definitely worse, no question

However my memory of the books (which admittedly, is probably not the best as I last read the later ones when they were released over a decade ago) is that Snape stopped being a wizard Nazi after they killed Lily Potter. Afterwards he is then forced to continue living a life as a total piece of shit in order to keep up appearances and maintain his role as someone sympathetic to Voldemort and stay in the good graces of families/wizards who never stopped believing.

His story was supposed to be a tragedy - signing up to become a Death Eater made him lose the only thing that he actually cares about, and then the rest of his life is spent around the people he now hates in order to try and get some kind of redemption for the awful things he did in his youth.
 

excelsiorlef

Bad Praxis
Member
Oct 25, 2017
73,358
James much more of a loser in his school days than Snape, because he came from privileged, well to do family. He was a spoiled, pure blooded brat.

James wasn't punching Nazis- Death eaters did not become a thing until after James graduated. Snape was neither a Slytherian or a death eater one his first trip to Hogswart- so what was James justification for picking on Snape then? His clothes? His hair? Talking to a girl? James was picking on anyone weaker and poorer than himself because he was raised with a chip on his shoulder.

Sorry, people don't grow out of being bullied- the scars of bulling stay with people for life. Snape came from an abusive household- hating the muggle side of himself. He final was going to escape to the wizarding world where life could be better, and his first introduction was two pure-bloods verbally abusing him and Lilly. He went from one place abusing him to another. It is no wonder Snape became enthralled first with Slytherian, then the Death Eaters- they welcomed him, made him feel wanted.

Snape, while evil, is tragic. The wizarding world is just as messed up as the real world when it comes to social services, racism, class, worshiping of celebrity sports figures. Instead teaching kids to get along, the whole system of Hogwarts was set up on bullshit house rivalries. It just breeding ground for life long enemies and resentment.

In a story world, James through his on hubris and actions creating his worst enemy, Snape. I expect better from story heroes.
Snape was already a racist.... Lily was just an exception because he was infatuated
 

Toxi

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
17,552
Regarding the poll: Snape is definitely worse, no question

However my memory of the books (which admittedly, is probably not the best as I last read the later ones when they were released over a decade ago) is that Snape stopped being a wizard Nazi after they killed Lily Potter. Afterwards he is then forced to continue living a life as a total piece of shit in order to keep up appearances and maintain his role as someone sympathetic to Voldemort and stay in the good graces of families/wizards who never stopped believing.

His story was supposed to be a tragedy - signing up to become a Death Eater made him lose the only thing that he actually cares about, and then the rest of his life is spent around the people he now hates in order to try and get some kind of redemption for the awful things he did in his youth.
The thing is, Snape doesn't actually believe he can be redeemed, which ironically makes him act like a shittier person.