• Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.

Game Freak vs Sonic Team

  • Game Freak

    Votes: 461 39.1%
  • Sonic Team

    Votes: 719 60.9%

  • Total voters
    1,180

Rurouni

Member
Dec 25, 2017
1,384

Sonic Colors

An extraordinary amusement park has been seen orbiting around the home planet of Sonic the Hedgehog, and rumors are spreading that an alien race of Wisps, who have a unique colorful energy, are being held captive there by the evil Dr. Eggman. Soon after arriving at the amusement park, Sonic...

Sonic Generations

Set across three defining eras from 20 years of Sonic the Hedgehog video game history, the instantly recognisable environments of Sonic Generations have been re-built in stunning HD and are now playable in both classic side scrolling 2D from 1991, as well as modern 3D style found in Sonic's most...
Even better:

Fact-check.jpg
 

totofogo

Member
Oct 29, 2017
5,543
Chicago
Strange comparison imo. The difficulty for Sonic was translating the gameplay loop into 3D. Graphically, they mostly always did well to great even. Gamefreak is the opposite with Pokemon. The gameplay systems are easy to transfer to 3D, but they tend to cheap out in the graphics department.

Yeah, this is an odd comparison. I voted Game Freak since they've struggled with the actual technical side of things. Sonic Team struggled for different reasons, not so much the "transition to 3D" as they started off strong.

Quality of games over time -> Sonic Team no doubt (hell, is that team still anything more than a name?)

Impact due to the technical transition to 3D -> Game Freak
 

Cantaim

Member
Oct 25, 2017
33,323
The Stussining
Sonic easily, they've changed series direction and gameplay styles constantly over the years. Gamefreak on the other hand has just been evolving their style with each entry. Main thing holding it back are entries like X/Y and Sword/Shield. Where it's clear time ran out and ideas got cut. Even still X/Y, OR/AS, Sun/Moon, SW/SH are all popular entries.
 

HelloItsPulse

Member
Dec 14, 2017
2,066
Game Freak hasn't made a bad Pokemon game, whereas Sonic Team put out Sonic 06 which by itself is enough to tank their odds of winning.

Also, Game Freak made a great 3D rhythm game for 3DS in Harmoknight, so they stay winning.
 
Feb 9, 2018
2,627
Sonic Team, definitely.

The only legitimately good Sonic game released in the past 26 years has been Sonic Mania, and that was a 2D game with sprite-based graphics. Sonic Adventure was merely okay by the standards of its time, but has aged poorly. The rest of the 3D Sonic games have ranged from average to awful.
 

bushmonkey

Member
Oct 29, 2017
5,601
Translating the Sonic gameplay to 3D is hard. Yes, Sega hasn't managed it but it's not an easy task.
Pokemon in 3D on the other hand? That should be a slam dunk. The gameplay is easily transposed and Game Freak have the money to do it justice so why are they finding it so hard?
 

Greywaren

Member
Jul 16, 2019
9,907
Spain
Sonic, but mainly because they had to shift the whole game. Pokémon just had a different look, it didn't play differently after the switch.
 

ghostcrew

The Shrouded Ghost
Administrator
Oct 27, 2017
30,351
There isn't a single 3d Pokemon game that's legitimately bad. You can't say that for Sonic.

^

People can't legitimately think that Game Freak have struggled with 3D games more than this shit.

www.metacritic.com

Sonic the Hedgehog

Sonic the Hedgehog for Xbox 360 game reviews & Metacritic score: Sonic celebrates his 15th anniversary by blazing his way onto the next-generation consoles, with his first adventure set in the human world. Featuring interacti...
 

Nairume

SaGa Sage
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,929
How is this even a question? Say what you will about the "effort" that GF is putting into Pokemon and how loud a vocal minority is about their disappointment in them, but they've still been very solid and well liked games. Sonic has been a joke for going on two decades.
 

Pancracio17

▲ Legend ▲
Avenger
Oct 29, 2017
18,712
At least Pokemon games are complete and generally polished, even if they look bad and lack content. Sonic Team was putting out barely functioning games.
 

SimplyComplex

Member
May 23, 2018
4,013
I think the charm of Sonic games (world/characters) is still somewhat present in the 3D Sonic games whereas I feel like Pokémon has no charm whatsoever.

In terms of games though, I'd still say Pokémon has the edge and transitioned better.
 

Watchtower

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,642
Sonic Team, no contest.

Game Freak's issue is they've been able to put off going HD-3D longer than most others, and now we're watching them, the creators of one the of the biggest global franchises ever, toil through the same growing pains that so many others had to barb with years back. And they have to do that while trying to maintain the continual cycle of their media machine.

In contrast, Sonic Team's issues are more systemic: it's not that they haven't transitioned, it's that they don't know what they're doing. They're throwing shit to the wall to see what sticks, and occasionally a couple things do but because they're so clueless they struggle to capitalize on them and instead remix themselves out of their groove.
 

Goomy

Banned
Aug 31, 2019
88
Sonic Team, no question. Every time they get close to achieving something workable, it gets tossed away or gets implemented in a worse way. As a fan of Sonic Generations, I don't want to play Forces because footage of it makes the 3D-boost gameplay look like the most by-the-numbers, janky-ass experience, not the fun speedrunning rush when the formula is done right.

At least the Pokemon formula just works every time.
 

Issen

Member
Nov 12, 2017
6,816
Sonic Team didn't struggle with the transition to 3D at all. Their first 3D effort, Sonic Adventure, perfectly translated the core gameplay mechanics and design. What they struggled with was with managing the company and continuing to design good games over time.
 

Gelf

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,295
Is this poll actually Sonic in 3D Vs Pokémon in 3D? If you say Sonic Team in the transition to 3D then surely that includes Nights, Burning Rangers, Billy Hatcher and Phantasy Star Online and then suddenly it looks a lot better for them.
 

pswii60

Member
Oct 27, 2017
26,667
The Milky Way
Phantasy Star Online is one of the best games of all time. And it's definitely 3D.

Sonic Team wasn't the issue. The IP was the issue. Trying to put such a fast moving momentum-based 2D platformer that relies on intricate level design, in to a 3D world? It's like trying to put a round peg in to a square hole.
 

Deleted member 3040

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
893
I'm confused. Sonic Team never really struggled with 3D, did they. They just struggled in terms of game design for Sonic games (or whatever)? Are we just comparing the quality of the games or something?
 

Foffy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,379
I remember when Gen 6 came around, and as underwhelming as it was visually, those games had notable framerate drops that I just found embarrassing. Sonic has consistently hit 60fps in more mainline games than Pokemon has. But after that, the Sonic series is a series that is consistently inconsistent. It may run smoothly but you'll run into some other problem.

If we can say Pokemon is like a car stuck in the road, just running tires in the mud and moving slowly, Sonic is a car where the suspension gives out at every other turn, and crashing into something shortly thereafter. You're getting somewhere at a much faster clip, but that doesn't mean the ride is well. One is part of the largest media franchise on earth and the other is a series that they don't even try to argue for a full priced release, so these are things to consider when considering their struggles. One can get the financial backing to address that if those involved really pushed for it, which makes the struggles infuriating. Like Castlevania in 3D, another iteration of a 2D series that gets dogpiled on, all of the issues people have with these games go right back to cost, and Pokemon increasingly has little excuse to get away with what it does besides it not costing them money to not step it up just yet.

Sonic Team has also made non-Sonic Games, and if we even consider those for a moment, Game Freak is clearly a company that struggles despite the major IP it has behind it. People picking Sonic Team better be doing so because they're thinking of just Sonic the Hedgehog. I can't even imagine Game Freak doing a game like Phantasy Star Online well, at all.
 

Jimnymebob

Member
Oct 26, 2017
19,599
It's a completely different comparison, so much so that it's pointless to choose. Sonic had worse games sure, but it had to reimagine its entire gameplay philosophy, while Pokemon just stayed the same as the 2D games but with stupider ideas that they could've just as easily implemented had they stuck with 2D.
If your main complaint about 3D Pokemon is that it looks bad and low budget, then 3d Sonic blows it out of the water.
 
Oct 27, 2017
42,700
I'm confused. Sonic Team never really struggled with 3D, did they. They just struggled in terms of game design for Sonic games (or whatever)? Are we just comparing the quality of the games or something?
It's why when I responded I broke it up into technical issues and gameplay issues. They never had any technical issues with the jump. Also other posters have brought it up, but I totally forgot they also made the PSO games
 

Border

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,859
Sonic Team made the transition to 3D over twenty years ago! The Sonic Adventure and Phantasy Star Online games were great.

Have the Sonic games of the last 10-15 years been kinda iffy? Yes, but the poor quality of those games really don't have much to do with the team's transition to 3D. It's not fair to look at trash like Sonic Unleashed and say that it's indicative of a bad transition. It's just a bad game that happens to be 3D.
 

Deleted member 3040

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
893
It's why when I responded I broke it up into technical issues and gameplay issues. They never had any technical issues with the jump. Also other posters have brought it up, but I totally forgot they also made the PSO games
Yeah... honestly, the thread is just confusing to me. I don't even know what to discuss. And as you're now aware of, Sonic Team has made more than just Sonic (and even then, there's so many Sonic games (and since people love bringing up the Adventure games, I doubt many are aware most of their issues were introduced in their ports rather than original outings!)).
 

NZerker12

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,537
Lol these "Sonic never had a good 3d game" takes sure are something. Also why are people mentioning heroes and 06?

The word transition means the process of changing from one state or condition to another.

So in this case it would be Sonic Adventure vs X/Y (if you consider it a proper 3d game) or Sword and Sheild.
Which imo Sonic Adventure is the way better first attempt than either pokemon games. It is actually a massive leap and was highly ambitious for the time x/y and sw/sh are not. So yeah the answer is gamefreak no question.

Now if the question was who has had the weaker overall quality of 3d games then yeah it would be Sonic Team.
 

Sacrilicious

Member
Oct 30, 2017
3,318
I'm shocked that the poll is even close.

I mean, yeah, the 3D Pokemon games are technologically unimpressive but they're perfectly playable games with functional mechanics. Hell, you could even describe the gameplay as fun without being laughed out of the room.

I realize that's an incredibly low bar, but 3D Sonic took generations to reach even that.

To be fair, it's much more challenging to translate Sonic's gameplay into 3D, but god damn did they fail spectacularly

EDIT: I guess I'm only thinking Pokemon vs Sonic, since I haven't tried their other IPs
 
Last edited:

thecaseace

Member
May 1, 2018
3,218
The answer is Sonic team, because game freak hasn't really transitioned to 3D.

That's not a criticism of Game Freaks games, they're RPGs and ultimately 3D lends less to their games than it does to Sonic games.

But Sonic games by their nature as platformer a were much more heavily impacted.
 

Nali

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,649
Sonic Team put out NiGHTS as their 3D debut in 1996, and that's still one of the best games ever made.
 

bobliefeld

Member
Jan 30, 2019
203
Sonic Team did really well with 3D. Nights, Sonic Jam and Burning Rangers were really impressive on the Saturn and pretty good/great games (+demo thing) too. I didn't like Sonic Adventure but people thought it was great at the time. Phantasy Star Online was then too. People liked Sonic Adventure 2 as well.

I think they've struggled, specifically, with how to advance Sonic in 3D and how to build on the successes they've had in that regard.

Im not a Pokemon fan at all but Gamefreak really do seem to struggle with 3D. Maybe the games are better than Sonic Teams but they look like they could still be Gameboy games under the hood.
 

eraFROMAN

One Winged Slayer
Member
Mar 12, 2019
2,878
Sonic Team. Game Freaks games may look like ass, but they don't play like ass by any stretch, even if they aren't really for me anymore.
 

Kent

Member
Jun 4, 2018
1,098
I like how people are pointing to things like Sonic 2006 as struggling with the transition to 3D. As if Sonic Team didn't already do its transition to 3D two generations prior.

NiGHTS Into Dreams and Burning Rangers, both games by Sonic Team on the Saturn in 1996 and 1998, respectively, handled 3D fairly well compared to many other contemporaries on the same hardware, not being particularly riddled with any largely-impactful design or technical issues.

I don't recall any major problems or poor reception of HarmoKnight, but you really can't say that about Pokemon X/Y. I would argue that Game Freak is more bogged down by their content pipeline than anything else, if Dexit and the resulting fallout are anything to go by. Their transition to full-3D (even though they've been using a mix of 3D and sprites for a while on the DS games) is also quite a bit more recent than Sonic Team's, with the Saturn being notoriously difficult to make games for.
 

Pokemaniac

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,944
The two situations really aren't super comparable, but 3D Sonic's problems tend to be much more fundamental.
 

oofouchugh

Member
Oct 29, 2017
3,966
Night City
Sonic Adventure games didn't age great but were received well at the time and were technically competent Dreamcast games while Sword/Shield is one of the worst excuses for a AAA Switch game that exists (from a technical perspective) that made significant content cuts compared to previous generations. Honestly I'd rather replay any of the Sonic Adventure games over Sword/Shield strictly for the Chao Garden and I say this as a person that used to speedrun previous Pokemon games to farm TMs I needed to build competitive teams in game and I still have my competitive Pokemon from Emerald sitting in Home.
 

hiredhand

Member
Feb 6, 2019
3,148
After 10+ attempts Sonic Team still hasn't really figured out how to translate Sonic gameplay to 3D. So it has to be them.

I agree though that the comparison is a bit misguided. Moving Pokemon into 3D environment doesn't really change the gameplay that much compared to Sonic. Gamefreak's problems have always been more on the technical side.

For me the biggest problem with Pokemon is how cheap and low effort they look. This is supposed to be the second best selling Nintendo franchise after Mario so why do these games look so much worse than mainline Mario and Zelda games. Just comparing the presentation of mainline and remake Zelda and Pokemon titles on Switch really makes Gamefreak look bad.
 

KamenSenshi

Member
Nov 27, 2017
1,861
I'm surprised this is close. Sonic Adventure plus Sonic 2006 automatically puts Sonic Team as worse, no Pokémon game has had near the amount of issues as 2006 even if you combine them all. No Pokémon game has been near universally considered one of the worst games ever.
 

RXM027

Member
Dec 18, 2020
1,017
I don't recall any major problems or poor reception of HarmoKnight, but you really can't say that about Pokemon X/Y.
Technical problems, sure.
Reception, though? X/Y sold 16 million copies and have a Metacritic score of 87.5. If that doesn't count as well received, than what does? Just because it's frequently disliked on the internet doesn't mean it wasn't well received.
 

mael

Avenger
Nov 3, 2017
16,764
What the actual fuck is this topic?
Like the examples are out of whack for no reasons.
Pokemon is using 3D models since Diamond and Pearl on DS for the overworld and XY on being fully 3D.
Respectively 14 years and 8 years ago while the example is from 2 years ago at best because OP somehow doesn't like textures used in 1 area.
Like seriously Pokemon transition to 3D was complete and done by the time ORAS was released half a decade before Sword & Shield.

For Sonic it's even more egregious, Sonic 06 was something like 8 years after Sonic Adventure.
And seriously comparing the disaster that is Sonic 06 to Pokemon Sword Shield?
Have you ever even looked at how Sonic 06 plays?
It's a disaster on so many level and literally none of the issues is that Sonic Team can't do 3D well or Sonic doesn't work in 3D.
Like Sonic Team is responsible for Phantasy Star Online.

Next step, let's complain about Bowser's Fury being short because Mario hasn't handled transition to 3D well.