Who is more of a fuck up? OG Timeline Raiden or New Timeline Raiden? (MK Lore [lol] SPOILERS)

[bar_bar12]

One constant in MK timelines is that Raiden is just a motherfucker who makes a lot of mistakes, between turning evil in both timeines, to accidentally deep frying Liu Kang like a Popeyes chickn in the new one, or just being a dick who got shit pushed in by Shao Kahn in the OG one.

 

[Mediking]

Prolly new Timeline Raiden since even good guys seem to be upset with him in their intros

 

[Lant_War]

New timeline Raiden just fucked up because old timeline Raiden is a moron.

 

[UshiromiyaEva]

New Timeline since his attempts of changing destiny either proved ineffective or ended in death for Earth's allies.

Original MK3 was an outright victory for Earth with the only casualty of Johnny Cage in exchange for completely weakening Outworld for years and key invaders like Sheeva were killed in the process.

MK9-redux MK3 was a pyrrhic victory at best, nearly every hero was killed and many characters that would defect against Kahn and Earth's enemies later on (Cyrax, Goro, etc.) never turned.

Raiden's efforts in the original timeline weren't failures by his own efforts, threats like the Deadly Alliance, Onaga, and Shinnok were either more powerful than even he could handle alone or had distinctly arranged events to be out of his favor.

 

[KtotheRoc]

New timeline Raiden fucked up because OG timeline Raiden fucked up.

 

[Yog-Sothoth]

OG timeline Raiden was stupid for not sending a complete message but new timeline Raiden...omg.
I haven't seen so much incompetence in a while. He's kinda the reason half the cast was killed and he also killed Liu Kang lol. Even the good guys are mad at him.

 

[Cordy]

New Timeline Raiden was wrong at least once in like every MK9 cutscene lol. Dude was booking like Vince McMahon lmao.

 

[Tetrinski]

Mortal Kombat has two timelines?!

Where did it split?

 

[Evilisk]

Mortal Kombat has two timelines?!

Where did it split?

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Mortal Kombat 9

 

[Sargerus]

Mortal Kombat has two timelines?!

Where did it split?

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Shao Kahn wins Armageddon. Raiden sends a message to his past self in order to change the outcome. Thus a new timeline is born starting with MK9.

 

[Kalentan]

To be honest though... Hasn't the new timeline been relatively more peaceful than the original? Like didn't the original games all happen quickly one after the other? At least the new timeline had 25 years where the world wasn't close to being destroyed.

So like is New Raiden's ultimate accomplishments not that bad?

 

[Uraizen]

New timeline Raiden fucked up because OG timeline Raiden fucked up.

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Isn't it great? MK9's story mode will remain my favorite just for that.

 

[Yog-Sothoth]

Mortal Kombat has two timelines?!

Where did it split?

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Soon to be three...or more. MK11 focuses on time shenanigans and multiple realities.
It's gotten as ridiculous as comic books and japanese games.

 

[Bryan1321]

I always liked Mortal Kombat Live Action movie Raiden.
"I don't think so"
MORTAL KOMBAAAT

 

[Kalentan]

Soon to be three...or more. MK11 focuses on time shenanigans and multiple realities.
It's gotten as ridiculous as comic books and japanese games.

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Honestly not that confusing Kronika viewed the original timeline as the intended one and the new one goes against her wishes.

Therefore she calls upon those who have been "cheated" in the new timeline, whether due to death or other means by way of Raiden's changes, to "reset" the timeline.

It's likely they she tell him about the whole "reset" part and just told them they'd get a better fate.

 

[Kevers]

Both

 

[Evilisk]

New Raiden's made more mistakes, no doubt.

Though old Raiden is the one technically responsible for that stupidly cryptic message...

To be honest though... Hasn't the new timeline been relatively more peaceful than the original? Like didn't the original games all happen quickly one after the other? At least the new timeline had 25 years where the world wasn't close to being destroyed.

So like is New Raiden's ultimate accomplishments not that bad?

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This is where I'm at

Yeah, the Earthrealm warriors getting killed was bad... at the same time, I'll take "Earthrealm warriors dying in MK3 but new timeline surviving past Armageddon" over "Earthrealm warriors surviving MK3, but dying in Deadly Alliance and Armageddon anyway"

(Also Johnny basically solo'd MK4 in this new timeline anyway, Earthrealm clearly doesn't need all those losers)

 

[Seeya]

Honestly not that confusing Kronika viewed the original timeline as the intended one and the new one goes against her wishes.

Therefore she calls upon those who have been "cheated" in the new timeline, whether due to death or other means by way of Raiden's changes, to "reset" the timeline.

It's likely they she tell him about the whole "reset" part and just told them they'd get a better fate.

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It might end up being that but isn't she pissed because Raidens new timeline has ultimately ended up with evil getting curb stomped? She mentions that he has upset the intended balance between good and evil, and we know that 'tweener' Raiden has been on a preemptive warpath or intends to be going from the events of MKX

It terms of bringing people back, it's very interesting that we haven't seen Meleena yet. Sort of implies that there is some truth to her MKX arcade ending. I hope that we see her become a 'good guy' defending outworld from Kitana.

(Also Johnny basically solo'd MK4 in this new timeline anyway, Earthrealm clearly doesn't need all those losers)

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This too.

 

[Kalentan]

This is where I'm at

Yeah, the Earthrealm warriors getting killed was bad... at the same time, I'll take "Earthrealm warriors dying in MK3 but new timeline surviving past Armageddon" over "Earthrealm warriors surviving MK3, but dying in Deadly Alliance and Armageddon anyway"

(Also Johnny basically solo'd MK4 in this new timeline anyway, Earthrealm clearly doesn't need all those losers)

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Basically more heroes died but ultimately more lives where saved. It's a harsh trade off but better than Armageddon.

It might end up being that but isn't she pissed because Raidens new timeline has ultimately ended up with evil getting curb stomped? She mentions that he has upset the intended balance between good and evil, and we know that 'tweener' Raiden has been on a preemptive warpath or intends to be going from the events of MKX

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It is a bit unclear since IIRC the previous timeline leaned faaaar more in the evil rather than there being a balance.

Honestly the "balance" part might just be her bullshitting to get the "good" people she brings back to aid her.

 

[Deleted member 14377]

Mortal Kombat 12

"You save the world and become good"
"What are you going to do?"
"I dunno. Fuck stuff up more?"
"Cool, count me in!"

 

[chrisPjelly]

I love Mortal Kombat's dumb plot

 

[Kalentan]

I love Mortal Kombat's dumb plot

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Honestly outside of Injustice, it's the only fighting game series with a story worth a damn.

 

[bangai-o]

I always liked Mortal Kombat Live Action movie Raiden.
"I don't think so"
MORTAL KOMBAAAT

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that was non-canon.

 

[RedshirtRig]

Old Raiden was an idiot, new Raiden pulled a TOASTY! on Liu Kang and needs a moustache so he can twirl it while laughing maniacally.

 

[Hailinel]

Original Raiden: "He must win."

What New Raiden said: "Cool. I got this."

What New Raiden should have said: "WHAT KIND OF A VAGUE-ASS HINT IS THAT, DUMBASS?!"

 

[Sinder]

New timeline is so stupid he makes James remar raiden look like the GOAT.

 

[Pop-O-Matic]

The fact that OG Raiden gives New Raiden something as vague as "he must win" as his big, history changing message is already dumb as fuck, but the fact that he also packed in a bunch of other "helpful" little visions like "yeah, Cyber-Smoke is bad news. Don't let that dude become a cyborg" is just peak stupidity. Like, if you could've included all of that you could have, y'know, been specific about who should win the tournament.

 

[CielYoshi]

Both are screwups, but to new timeline Raiden's credit, he did get Shao Kahn killed and got some measure of peace for Earthrealm for like 20 years. Imagine what he could have accomplished if old timeline Raiden's message was clearer.

 

[SENPAIatLARGE]

Everything spiralled out of control when Shao Kahn cheated and killed Kung Lao. Kung Lao would have severed his head with his hat, unlike Liu Kang that just punched a hole in his chest that he walked off. It ain't Raidens fault that Shao Kahn is a cheater.

 

[Normal]

New timeline Raiden just fucked up because old timeline Raiden is a moron.

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New timeline Raiden fucked up because OG timeline Raiden fucked up.

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[Zero-ELEC]

Old Timeline Raiden did his best and got it right most of the time, but kept getting paired off against insurmountable odds.

New Timeline Raiden kept making things worse at every turn.

 

[The Silver]

New timeline Raiden got an incredibly stupid vague message from old timeline Raiden and managed to avoid Armageddon. New Raiden is somehow putting in such good work that a time goddess is pissed that evil is getting its ass kicked too much.

 

[Sento]

The blunder god.

 

[Deleted member 12790]

Original MK3 was an outright victory for Earth with the only casualty of Johnny Cage in exchange for completely weakening Outworld for years and key invaders like Sheeva were killed in the process.

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Uh, no. All of earth was wiped out in the original MK3. Shao Kahn completely won. He stole millions of souls, and those whose souls he didn't steal, died at the hands of death squads. There is nothing in the MK lore about the non-chosen ones coming back to life:

The mass death on earth is constantly referenced in the later series. This is the reason Sonya Blade and Jax form the Earth Special Defenses unit. This is why Sub Zero reforms the Lin Kuei. It's because they saw nearly the entire population of earth die and are like traumatized going forward. In the new timeline, all of this is avoided. They kill Noob Saibot by throwing him into the soulnado before every life on earth can be taken.

 

[Yog-Sothoth]

New timeline Raiden got an incredibly stupid vague message from old timeline Raiden and managed to avoid Armageddon. New Raiden is somehow putting in such good work that a time goddess is pissed that evil is getting its ass kicked too much.

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I hope that means no more jobbing from the bad guys.

 

[Refyref]

We see new Raiden screwing up more often, but he did start off with the outright worst hint possible. Furthermore, while OG Raiden appears to mostly succeed in what he tries in the first few games, they are usually followed by much worse consequences, while in the new timeline, despite making tons of mistakes and losing most of the Earthrealm warriors very early on, normal life on Earth has continued far past the point everything was wiped out in the original timeline.
So basically, while new timeline raiden screws up much more on a day-to-day basis, he was far more successful than the original timeline Raiden in his main objective.

 

[Sheev]

In the new timeline, all of this is avoided. They kill Noob Saibot by throwing him into the soulnado before every life on earth can be taken.

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Whenever I see the word Soulnado I fucking howl.

I love this franchise.

 

[Deleted member 12790]

Honestly outside of Injustice, it's the only fighting game series with a story worth a damn.

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The king of fighters series, especially 95-97, have awesome stories. And fatal fury has a great story that has been at a cliffhanger for like 20 years now, with rock leaving terry after finding out he is geese's son.

 

[MachGao]

we see New Timeline Raiden's screw ups more often but at the same time he was running on an extremely vague message from his original timeline self plus by the time 10 takes place the world is in better shape than the old timeline.

...considering the old timeline basically didnt even get to that point due to Armageddon.

 

[Adamska]

People, the Raiden in the OG timeline didn't stop Armageddon. The Raiden in the new timeline did. So far, I guess it's fair to assume the Raiden that saved existence trumps the Raiden that didn't, warts and all.

 

[Deleted member 1102]

Prolly New Timeline Raiden just down to how many of his own allies die because of his stubbornness/stupidity but I want to give a shout out to Old Timeline Raiden for resurrecting Liu Kang's corpse for the purpose of attacking anyone who might be a threat to Earthrealm only for Zombie Liu Kang to immediately kill some innocent Shaolin Monks who had come to pay respects to Liu Kang's grave.

EDIT: After reading through the thread I agree that when you think about Old Timeline Raiden did fuck up more as the new timeline at least had 25 years of peace following MK9. I still think Raiden KILLING his own allies is worse but yeah, you could easily make a case for Old Timeline Raiden being the bigger fuck up.

 

[Deleted member 12790]

Prolly New Timeline Raiden just down to how many of his own allies die because of his stubbornness/stupidity but I want to give a shout out to Old Timeline Raiden for resurrecting Liu Kang's corpse for the purpose of attacking anyone who might be a threat to Earthrealm only for Zombie Liu Kang to immediately kill some innocent Shaolin Monks who had come to pay respects to Liu Kang's grave.

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With respect to new raiden, I will say that Liu Kang's death was also on Liu Kang. When the lightning god of earth is telling you he's seeing visions from his future, fucking believe him. Much of what they think is disastrous happenings in nuMK1 and nuMK2 are really just minor changes to the original storyline anyways. Raiden's action in nuMK3, which "got everyone killed," is actually the same thing he did in old MK3, and the reason everyone died is more because Quan Chi manipulated things than Raiden fucking up. More people survived in nuMK3 than old MK3 anyways. Liu Kang lost respect for raiden because he believed Raiden was fucking up more than he was, and it cost him his life. In the end, Raiden's idea to let Shao Kahn win, and thus incur the wrath of the gods was actually a pretty good one. Liu Kang should have shut up and listened.

I'd actually say New Scorpion fucks up more than anyone else in the series. He doesn't listen to Raiden, lets himself get played by Quan Chi yet again, which results in his clan staying dead, then fucks everyone over when he kills Quan Chi in MKX, eliminating the possibility of ever returning the MK Warriors to life. New Scorpion is outright warned that killing Sub Zero will cause problems, and still goes through with it. He creates Noob Saibot. New Scorpion also misses New Sub Zero sparing a life in the MK2 tournament, and thus never becomes his sworn protector.

 

[Deleted member 1102]

With respect to new raiden, I will say that Liu Kang's death was also on Liu Kang. When the lightning god of earth is telling you he's seeing visions from his future, fucking believe him. Much of what they think is disastrous happenings in nuMK1 and nuMK2 are really just minor changes to the original storyline anyways. Raiden's action in nuMK3, which "got everyone killed," is actually the same thing he did in old MK3, and the reason everyone died is more because Quan Chi manipulated things than Raiden fucking up. More people survived in nuMK3 than old MK3 anyways. Liu Kang lost respect for raiden because he believed Raiden was fucking up more than he was, and it cost him his life. In the end, Raiden's idea to let Shao Kahn win, and thus incur the wrath of the gods was actually a pretty good one. Liu Kang should have shut up and listened.

I'd actually say New Scorpion fucks up more than anyone else in the series. He doesn't listen to Raiden, lets himself get played by Quan Chi yet again, which results in his clan staying dead, then fucks everyone over when he kills Quan Chi in MKX, eliminating the possibility of ever returning the MK Warriors to life. New Scorpion is outright warned that killing Sub Zero will cause problems, and still goes through with it. He creates Noob Saibot. New Scorpion also misses New Sub Zero sparing a life in the MK2 tournament, and thus never becomes his sworn protector.

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You make some good points here, though I still think both Raiden and Liu Kang are responsible for his death. I'm not sure about more people surviving in nuMK3 unless you mean just people in general and not playable characters, which is correct if that's the case.

And yes, Scorpion is by far the stupidest character in the new timeline for the reasons you stated. I'm still pissed at him killing Quan Chi before the other revenants could be brought back.

 

[Deleted member 388]

Recently said on discord that I only play the MK games for the story. Immediately got laughed at. I'm glad this thread has reminded me how much I'm in the right.

 

[Deleted member 12790]

Recently said on discord that I only play the MK games for the story. Immediately got laughed at. I'm glad this thread has reminded me how much I'm in the right.

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The MK story is the best schlop there is. It's so cheesy and awesome and badass. It's like pro wrestling and super sentai and comic books and doom all rolled into one. Sorcerers, ancient clans, military, demons, gods, cyborgs, ninjas... 3 major storylines intertwined between multiple characters full of twists and turns and heel turns and betrayals.

I love shit like this:



A man made of smoke mourning that his best friend has been turned into a robot, calling it "hideous," spoken with gravitas as though it were shakespear, haha. It's so cheesy and tongue in cheek, yet plays it all so straight. It's like Robocop to me.

The games play great, too. I put hundreds of hours into each new MK and Injustice, I've legitimately loved the gameplay since MK9. I also used to put TONS of money into MK1, and MK2, and MK3 when they were at the arcades and played the so-so 3D games in between.

I love the franchise from head to toe, including the awful cartoon and the terrible movie sequel and the amazing first movie, and I've been taking it all in since the very first MK. Mortal Kombat in general epitomizes everything great about arcade games. They, along with NBA jam, are the quintessential 1990's arcade experiences.

 

[Deleted member 42]

Yes.

 

[Kalentan]

The MK story is the best schlop there is. It's so cheesy and awesome and badass. It's like pro wrestling and super sentai and comic books and doom all rolled into one. Sorcerers, ancient clans, military, demons, gods, cyborgs, ninjas... 3 major storylines intertwined between multiple characters full of twists and turns and heel turns and betrayals.

I love shit like this:



A man made of smoke mourning that his best friend has been turned into a robot, calling it "hideous," spoken with gravitas as though it were shakespear, haha. It's so cheesy and tongue in cheek, yet plays it all so straight. It's like Robocop to me.

The games play great, too. I put hundreds of hours into each new MK and Injustice, I've legitimately loved the gameplay since MK9. I also used to put TONS of money into MK1, and MK2, and MK3 when they were at the arcades and played the so-so 3D games in between.

I love the franchise from head to toe, including the awful cartoon and the terrible movie sequel and the amazing first movie, and I've been taking it all in since the very first MK. Mortal Kombat in general epitomizes everything great about arcade games. They, along with NBA jam, are the quintessential 1990's arcade experiences.

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I think that MK has established a perfect balance between cheesy fun and seriousness. A balance that I think other games like say the Street Fighter V storymode never really found and it just came across as dull. But overall I think what Mortal Kombat gets is it's characters. They help the story modes be so endearing.

 

[SENPAIatLARGE]

With respect to new raiden, I will say that Liu Kang's death was also on Liu Kang. When the lightning god of earth is telling you he's seeing visions from his future, fucking believe him. Much of what they think is disastrous happenings in nuMK1 and nuMK2 are really just minor changes to the original storyline anyways. Raiden's action in nuMK3, which "got everyone killed," is actually the same thing he did in old MK3, and the reason everyone died is more because Quan Chi manipulated things than Raiden fucking up. More people survived in nuMK3 than old MK3 anyways. Liu Kang lost respect for raiden because he believed Raiden was fucking up more than he was, and it cost him his life. In the end, Raiden's idea to let Shao Kahn win, and thus incur the wrath of the gods was actually a pretty good one. Liu Kang should have shut up and listened.

I'd actually say New Scorpion fucks up more than anyone else in the series. He doesn't listen to Raiden, lets himself get played by Quan Chi yet again, which results in his clan staying dead, then fucks everyone over when he kills Quan Chi in MKX, eliminating the possibility of ever returning the MK Warriors to life. New Scorpion is outright warned that killing Sub Zero will cause problems, and still goes through with it. He creates Noob Saibot. New Scorpion also misses New Sub Zero sparing a life in the MK2 tournament, and thus never becomes his sworn protector.

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Yeah, Scorpion going aggro at every opportunity has ruined the timeline far more than raiden ever could.

 

[Yog-Sothoth]

Please don't remind me of Scorpion's stupidity. I'm still salty.
And this wasn't even revenant Scorpion, this was the Scorpion who had his humanity restored, knew what it was like to be a servant of Quan Chi and still went on to deny others of having their humanity restored.

Scorpion is the true answer. Should be added to the poll.

 

[ItIsOkBro]

OG timeline Raiden made no mistakes for a while and by the time MK:D rolled around he had every right to lose faith in humanity.

His 'he must win' message, while vague, if it was less vague new timeline Raiden probably would have let Shao Kahn win MK2.