-
Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
Who are the "least special" Final Fantasy Protagonists?
- Thread starter AnansiThePersona
- Start date
TIL people have a really weird definition of "least special". Tidus? Zidane?
But yeah, it's Firion, then Vaan.
But yeah, it's Firion, then Vaan.
Vaan is by design a regular person swept into extraordinary circumstances, he wins this by far. But I would say Cloud is a solid choice as well since all of the stuff that leads to his superhuman abilities and story were not intentional and he was just a normal teenager prior to it also.
None of the WoLs qualify as all of them are chosen by destiny/their gods, especially not XIV WoL haha. He or she is up there with Noct on "destined badass" tier plot.
None of the WoLs qualify as all of them are chosen by destiny/their gods, especially not XIV WoL haha. He or she is up there with Noct on "destined badass" tier plot.
Squall is basically prophesied due to a timeloop to kill Ultimecia. Him appearing in the past and being identified as Squall led to Edea and Cid ensuring he became a SeeD and entrusting a bunch of responsibilities on him.
Literally the opposite of what this thread is about. Congrats.
Liberi fatali = children of fate
Destiny being set in stone is a big theme in this game lol.
Despite liking the game, I'd many, many, MANY issues with FF15. But I gotta admit; for me, they nailed the ending.
I'm SHOCKED that the people saying Squall haven't played the game in a while. Just shocked I tell ya.
People are still really bitter about the original pitch for FFXII that focused around Basch getting nixed, but the hate for Vaan has gotten way out of proportion.
Also, I feel like people really sleep on the fact that Vaan is connected in such a way to the conspiracy that sets up the entire game that he's kinda the only guy who can actually start Basch on his path of redemption.
Firion is the most "just some dude" in the entire franchise, barring the FFXI player character.
Firion is the most "just some dude" in the entire franchise, barring the FFXI player character.
I feel like it's not that hard to understand though? SE looked at Basch being the original MC and went 'too old' so instead of making Ashe the face of her own story as it should've been from the start, the writers decided to make Vaan the MC they marketed instead. It's not even a Tidus situation where you're at least experiencing his development as he's thrown into Yuna's story. Vaan's just there most of the time aside when he decides to be rude to leaders in their own village (why was he even allowed to talk when Fran went to see her sister lmao) or those forced conversations they have with him and Ashe. And honestly, in a game where the party consists of mostly white and blonde-haired people, I'm gonna side eye the white people who feel the most useless hard.
Ashe should be the face of XII, the one in dissidia, etc. but isn't because of Vaan / SE's decisions and it sucks. At least Basch would've been unique since FF never really do older protags.
This image is hilarious considering Ashe and Penelo barely even talk to each other throughout the game. Like I honestly can't even remember a significant moment between them at all and I'm pretty sure they never even talk to each other lmao.
Last edited:
i'll never understand why vaan is the protagonist and not Ashe. (I know Balthier was rejected by square enix execs because "he was too old" for the target audience (lol) but Ashe???... basically the game's whole second half is her quest for vengeance and not become a mad queen)
Ashe was always the face of the story and there wasn't any version of the game where she wasn't. She is in control of her own development at all times, which is much better than FFX where they force Tidus down our throats and only allow to show us how Yuna feels through a man's perspective rather than her own.
Your aggressive need to defend/stan/etc. XII is starting to get weird when you come off as almost incapable of legitimately acknowledging that the game has flaws (ex. ignoring my point on how a character, who supposedly inspired Ashe to be a 'better' ruler, actually barely talks to her in canon and they have no significant development or interactions together and choose to instead shit on another game in the series when I wasn't even insulting XII / didn't even post a 'Vaan is useless' driveby in the first place). With that said, shoutout to X for actually having its female characters talk, bond, and connect with each other multiple times throughout the game. Apparently that's hard.
Anyway, X makes it clear that it's Tidus story and experiences while he's following Yuna on her journey, however, Yuna is allowed to vocalize her own feelings and thoughts multiple times throughout the game without Tidus not even in the picture, the focus, or currently narrating so that's a lie. I can literally think of two story heavy scenes dedicated to her literally pouring her heart while Tidus isn't there or gives her space to process her emotions unfiltered. Yuna is also equally visible alongside Tidus in marketing in terms of promotion, merchandise, appearances in other games, and more. Regardless of what anyone thinks about it quality wise, she had her own game as a lead where she's arguably written even better in it than X (at least in terms of diving into her headspace, feelings, etc). She's always gotten equal amount of exposure as Tidus - if not more so at times. I cannot say the same for Ashe despite her being the 'face' of FFXII's story and that's the problem which a lot of ya'll deliberately miss the point of to argue what you want to argue.
I used the term 'marketed' for a reason in my post since the context of how they marketed the game is meaningful and does impact how people view the game, the story, etc. Choosing a male character over a female one as the one who is more 'marketable' is bad and speaks volumes but I'm supposed to shut up and be okay with it because 'It is Ashe's story yet I have to experience it though a static male character who lacks his own?' Ashe is the 'face' of XII but how many women actually know that and feel represented? Because I had no idea who she was before playing XII and was mad that such a great character wasn't the marketed lead of her own story. Ashe is the face of the story yet I have to run around as a male character who barely matters throughout most of the game? Ashe is the face of the game yet she's consistently not marketed as it? She's the face of XII but a male character was chosen to represent everything surrounding the game, while Ashe, a great female character, is barely represented in anything outside of XII besides some bad mobile games? Get out of here with that and I'm tired of being told from dudes I should be okay with how they handled her because she is the '''''real''''' protagonist. It means nothing if she's forgotten about considering how SE treats her.
Last edited:
Vaan really isn't useless to the narrative. He brings the cast together and him and Penelo represent the average person who gets caught up in the middle of a war and has to live with the worst aspects of it, which is one of the most important themes in XII.
The story of XII would not work if everyone in the party was special/important in the world. The execution is another thing, and FFXII had a messy development leading to its story being incomplete and rushed to a finish, which unfortunately caused Vaan and especially Penelo to have far less of a presence overall.
Ashe will always be the protagonist of FFXII though, and she really should have been playable in Dissidia before Vaan.
Ashe should definitely be used more as the face of the game.
The story of XII would not work if everyone in the party was special/important in the world. The execution is another thing, and FFXII had a messy development leading to its story being incomplete and rushed to a finish, which unfortunately caused Vaan and especially Penelo to have far less of a presence overall.
Ashe will always be the protagonist of FFXII though, and she really should have been playable in Dissidia before Vaan.
She may have a chance to play a role in FFXIV one day though, while the Ivalice raids claim she died in the past, it ends revealing a queen of Dalmasca still lives and is leading a resistance, much like how her role in FFXII played out.
But we just have to wait and see if that is truly Ashe and where they go with that...
But we just have to wait and see if that is truly Ashe and where they go with that...
Thanks for the clarification! I had no idea at all that such was the case with the player avatar in FFXIV. Clearly it's still Vaan then. :P
FFI - Warrior of Light, chosen by the Crystal
FFII - Firion.... its been a long time since I've played FFII, but I recall that crew just being refugees that the soldiers didn't kill all the way.
FFIII - another WoL situation, chosen by the crystals.
FFIV - Dad was an alien, bad guy is his brother being mind controlled by the devil who lives on the moon.
FFV - Another Warrior of Light. Also dad was an alien.
FFVI - Dad was a summoned monster/Esper
FFVII - was a random kid who was injected with alien DNA making him special and connecting him mentally to the bad guy who was also injected with alien DNA
FFVIII - went back in time to invent the group that resulted in him going back in time
FFIX - literally the angel of death
FFX - dream/ghost athlete whose dad is a whale monster
FFXI - pass
FFXII - some kid
FFXIII - God sent her to kill God so God would come back
FFXIV - Warrior of Light again
FFXV - true king destined to erase evil or something.
Vaan is the only FF viewpoint protag that meets the criteria of the post. Firion as well, possibly, its been a while.
FFII - Firion.... its been a long time since I've played FFII, but I recall that crew just being refugees that the soldiers didn't kill all the way.
FFIII - another WoL situation, chosen by the crystals.
FFIV - Dad was an alien, bad guy is his brother being mind controlled by the devil who lives on the moon.
FFV - Another Warrior of Light. Also dad was an alien.
FFVI - Dad was a summoned monster/Esper
FFVII - was a random kid who was injected with alien DNA making him special and connecting him mentally to the bad guy who was also injected with alien DNA
FFVIII - went back in time to invent the group that resulted in him going back in time
FFIX - literally the angel of death
FFX - dream/ghost athlete whose dad is a whale monster
FFXI - pass
FFXII - some kid
FFXIII - God sent her to kill God so God would come back
FFXIV - Warrior of Light again
FFXV - true king destined to erase evil or something.
Vaan is the only FF viewpoint protag that meets the criteria of the post. Firion as well, possibly, its been a while.
Speaking of other Square games, Crono is really low on the being special tier list.
While there is the whole thing with the entity pushing the Chrono Trigger party to start their journey, Crono himself is nobody important overall and not even necessary for saving the world.
Vaan being the only living relative to the sole survivor of the King's assassination, as well as the Occuria visions gives him a closer connection to everything going on.
Firion has nothing like that.
While there is the whole thing with the entity pushing the Chrono Trigger party to start their journey, Crono himself is nobody important overall and not even necessary for saving the world.
Nah, still Firion.
Vaan being the only living relative to the sole survivor of the King's assassination, as well as the Occuria visions gives him a closer connection to everything going on.
Firion has nothing like that.
The Crystal Chronicles caravaner is a good contender.
They're just a normal teen, going an the myrrh collection pilgrimage that most people in the world seem to go on at that age.
They just happen to stumble upon information that other characters uncovered, which leads them to the source of the Miasma.
They're just a normal teen, going an the myrrh collection pilgrimage that most people in the world seem to go on at that age.
They just happen to stumble upon information that other characters uncovered, which leads them to the source of the Miasma.
Fair point. Lightning might've also been a contender for this before her meeting with the fal'Cie (though I love her regardless).
What about Benjamin, though? It's been awhile since I last played FFMQ so I can't remember if he was a chosen hero or just some dude.
I don't hate him. I don't even think about him.
You can just remove him from the game and it doesn't change anything, and mentally that's exactly what I do when I'm remembering FFXII's story. Like even if I try to re-insert him, it just means adding, "... and Vaan was there, too" to the end of every sentence.
I don't think there's much meaningful distinction in how "special" either Vaan or Firion are compared to one another.
By the same token as your first point, Vaan is a level removed from the assassination of King Raminas, while Firion personally has a miraculous survival not just of his hometown's razing, but of his run-in with the black knights, which lands him in the care of the rebellion.
In reality, both are lowborn orphans personally and closely affected by the respective Empires they fight -- just like countless others. Reks' corroboration of the Empire's framing of Basch to Vaan (and others), in order to get Basch falsely convicted, doesn't really afford Vaan any "specialness." It didn't inform Vaan's motives for infiltrating the castle and getting caught, and he listened to and forgave Basch almost immediately after meeting him.
Neither does the Occuria's illusory manipulation of Vaan, which they would and could have done to any victim of Archadia with a vengeful grudge to nurse, in order to bring about another Dynast-King.
Vaan is connected to the conspiracy the whole game starts from and is essential to Basch's redemption.
Firion is just some guy who had a bad day.
The fact some are picking Tidus and Noctis either means:
1. They are doing it ironically.
2. They aren't grasping the gist of this thread (or worse, willfully ignoring it).
3. They REALLY don't Final Fantasy much.
1. They are doing it ironically.
2. They aren't grasping the gist of this thread (or worse, willfully ignoring it).
3. They REALLY don't Final Fantasy much.
I liked everything about the ending except for:
Luna and Noct turning into the logo, which I thought was really tacky given it was clearly made for FF versus XIII. The trailers for that had a heavy emphasis on sleep
a big theme for Nomura lately in Kingdom Hearts:
(And the lack of Versus XIII is one of the things I think really messed up the intended plotting of KHIII and sleeping realms.)
right up to naming the major city Insomnia. XV has no meaningful connection to sleep other than a random CG trailer inserted as a dream. I don't mind that they kept the logo, but having it end on that was ridiculous with how little connection it had with XV. I wasn't angry, but I couldn't stop laughing when it happened and completely took me out of an otherwise really effective finale.
a big theme for Nomura lately in Kingdom Hearts:
(And the lack of Versus XIII is one of the things I think really messed up the intended plotting of KHIII and sleeping realms.)
right up to naming the major city Insomnia. XV has no meaningful connection to sleep other than a random CG trailer inserted as a dream. I don't mind that they kept the logo, but having it end on that was ridiculous with how little connection it had with XV. I wasn't angry, but I couldn't stop laughing when it happened and completely took me out of an otherwise really effective finale.
I agree, OP let's get a Firion vs. Vaan poll. Decide this once and for all.
Definitely Vaan. For the record, that's not a bad thing. Born/destined heroes are kinda a pet peeve of mine.
Bartz's dad is a hero from a different world. Granted, he is the only party member in FF5 who's not actual royalty, but he's not a nobody.
Bartz's dad is a hero from a different world. Granted, he is the only party member in FF5 who's not actual royalty, but he's not a nobody.
I think his connection to the assassination is important because people will often call him just some guy with no place in the plot, and that's just not true.
As for the Occuria could have chosen someone else, sure, but they still chose him briefly. There are other cases of being chosen by coincidence, like the FFIII Warriors of Light, so I'm not going to say it doesn't count for Vaan.
I agree that Vaan is involved with the plot, and had pre-existing motivations, but... so did Firion. Vaan's brother being killed by Gabranth isn't more special a motivation than Firion's family being killed by the Empire, or him being wounded by their knights and unwittingly put into the confidence of the Rebellion in a rather singular manner.
The difference between Vaan and the Warriors of Light is that the WoL were predestined, while the Occuria only attempted to manipulate Vaan long after the story was in motion, after he was already involved with the party, as a misbegotten contingency in case Ashe failed.
Vaan is one of my favorite protags in the series precisely because he isn't chosen warrior of some god or a crystal or royalty. He was just a kid who through his actions got swept up into political theater. And yet he isn't a passive protagonist who just has his world turned upside down by some extenuating circumstance. He breaks into the palace of his own free will to try and fight the empire by stealing stuff. Childish sure, but he is a kid after all. It is that aspect of him that ultimately leads him to encountering Balthier, Fran, and the others who are the more central players in the plot, people who wouldn't have met if Vaan didn't bring them together. He stays with them because both he and Penelo are orphans who want more than a meager existence on the streets, and I'd wager most of us at that age wanted more than our normal lives too. It isn't so farfetched to believe that Vaan saw these adult figures as role models after having escaped prison with them and seeing their cause, one that he is connected to through his brother and citizenship. FF fans are so used to chosen one narratives that this seems lost on them. The execution of the characterization and story are a different matter. But his character isn't of itself useless or unnecessary to the story.
Isn't the kid from A2 even more inconsequential? I literally remember nothing about him though.
It is so ironic to see vaan to be the least special which makes him very special because people remember it that much he becomes memorable for being immemorable
lmao I forgot how he just kinda disappears at a certain point and Ashe/Balthier take over
Vaan and Penelo kinda just fade into the background. Shh! The adults are talking now you dirty Rabanastre urchins
one could argue that adele is the protagonist of A2 (and shes pretty 'special')
but yeah luso is just another kid like marche. but i think the stakes in A2 are "higher" so hes more "special"