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SilentPanda

Member
Nov 6, 2017
13,637
Earth
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On Oct. 1, Trump's close adviser Hop Hicks tested positive for coronavirus, with Trump and the First Lady testing positive the next day. By Oct. 3, both Newsweek and analyst Nguyen Phuong Linh pointed out that 14 people closely associated with Trump and the Rose Garden event had contracted the disease, surpassing the total for new coronavirus cases that day in Taiwan, New Zealand, and Vietnam.

In fact, Taiwan and Vietnam announced zero new cases of the virus on Oct. 3, while New Zealand announced one new imported case that day and zero local cases. It took Taiwan two weeks, from Sept. 19 to Oct. 3, to accumulate 14 cases, all of which were imported.

Taiwan's epidemic prevention measures, including face mask regulations, mandatory quarantines for all arrivals, and contact tracing, have been so successful that it has not had a verified local transmission of COVID-19 since April 12, 176 days ago. Vietnam, Thailand, and New Zealand also had long local case-free streaks of 100, 101, and 102 days, respectively, but all three were broken by new outbreaks.

www.taiwannews.com.tw

White House has more coronavirus cases than Taiwan, New Zealand, and Vietnam | Taiwan News

Media, Twitter influencers observe that White House has more coronavirus cases than Taiwan, New Zealand, Vietnam combined
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Temascos

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,504
Man, I wish I was living in one of those countries during this whole shitshow. I would feel so much more at ease.

This is really a testament to how badly the White House screwed up, and continue to screw up. They needlessly took risks and are going to pay the price.
 

Humidex

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,170
Sobering. And absolutely damning of the attitudes of the administration regarding COVID-19.
 

Spine Crawler

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
10,228
Man, I wish I was living in one of those countries during this whole shitshow. I would feel so much more at ease.

This is really a testament to how badly the White House screwed up, and continue to screw up. They needlessly took risks and are going to pay the price.
On the other hand the measures these countries are taking are draconic. Not saying that the US is doing the right thing. Obviously they are failing.
 

Deleted member 1698

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,254
The largest state in Australia has just gone 10 days in a row with 0 community transmission.
The state of Victoria, which went through a large second wave with sadly lots of deaths, locked down and is now down to 9 cases today.

And yes we have a conservative government with an evangelical leader. But we also have state leaders who have some sort of clue and everyone worked together.

It can be done and it should be done.

On the other hand the measures these countries are taking are draconic. Not saying that the US is doing the right thing. Obviously they are failing.

Call bullshit on that. It isn't draconic, it is what you do in a pandemic to save lives. Might as well call wearing a seat belt draconic too with that logic.
 
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SilentPanda

SilentPanda

Member
Nov 6, 2017
13,637
Earth
On the other hand the measures these countries are taking are draconic. Not saying that the US is doing the right thing. Obviously they are failing.

What is draconic with the measure of face mask regulations, mandatory quarantines for all arrivals, and contact tracing?

And people are going normal event like kite festival, pride parade, etc.
www.bbc.com

Taiwan stages LGBT pride parade 'for the world'

Taiwan has escaped the worst of the pandemic while hundreds of parades around the world have been axed.
 

dom

▲ Legend ▲
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
10,439
Shouldn't you have a timeframe in the title, at least? It's somewhat click bait.
 

Mivey

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,817
On the other hand the measures these countries are taking are draconic. Not saying that the US is doing the right thing. Obviously they are failing.
Oh, no, having to wear a mask, and self-quarantine if you arrive from another country. 😱️
That's not draconic, it's common sense. It's crazy that so much of the rest of the world, Europe including, is unable to follow such simple rules.
I can't believe how often I hear people here in Austria compare masks to being some sort of oppressive tool.
 

Addie

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,685
DFW
I knew Australia had some crazy animals, but I didn't think it had dragons.

(And no, mandatory face coverings, quarantines, and legitimate contact tracing is exactly what's necessary. How do we know it's necessary? Because it worked.)
 

Kormora

Member
Nov 7, 2017
1,413
... What about them were Draconic?

All of them had lockdowns, proper contact tracing, and mask requirements early.

Taiwan never went into a lockdown. They do contact trace though and every person is required to do 14 day quarantine to go to the island. Not to mention massive mask use compared with say the US.
 

Spine Crawler

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
10,228
No avatar and thick as shit anti mask nonsense. What a fucking shock.
im not anti mask at all.
Oh, no, having to wear a mask, and self-quarantine if you arrive from another country. 😱️
That's not draconic, it's common sense. It's crazy that so much of the rest of the world, Europe including, is unable to follow such simple rules.
I can't believe how often I hear people here in Austria compare masks to being some sort of oppressive tool.
I am used to masks because I have lived in asian countries before.
What a stupid thing to say.
maybe. I was referring to certain measures that are in place which I believe are limiting personal freedom too much. for example you are not able to enter Japan at the moment if you are non-japanese. it doesnt matter if you have family there or if you had a negative covid test. you just cant enter.

What is draconic with the measure of face mask regulations, mandatory quarantines for all arrivals, and contact tracing?

And people are going normal event like kite festival, pride parade, etc.
www.bbc.com

Taiwan stages LGBT pride parade 'for the world'

Taiwan has escaped the worst of the pandemic while hundreds of parades around the world have been axed.
in regard to taiwan I fully agree with all those measures. they are less strict then what you see in Japan as well.
The largest state in Australia has just gone 10 days in a row with 0 community transmission.
The state of Victoria, which went through a large second wave with sadly lots of deaths, locked down and is now down to 9 cases today.

And yes we have a conservative government with an evangelical leader. But we also have state leaders who have some sort of clue and everyone worked together.

It can be done and it should be done.



Call bullshit on that. It isn't draconic, it is what you do in a pandemic to save lives. Might as well call wearing a seat belt draconic too with that logic.
I think the word draconic was misplaced. In particular seeing how the US handled it and how many people died this year. I disregarded the fact that even wearing masks is a political thing in the US.
 
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Xiaomi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,237
On the other hand the measures these countries are taking are draconic. Not saying that the US is doing the right thing. Obviously they are failing.

"how draconian" was definitely how I felt in Taiwan last week as I went to party with my friends and cook barbecue for moon festival, go on a date, browse a mall, and attend a free doctor's appointment, all without fearing that I would contract a virus that would kill me or someone I love. These rules are so strict, someone might ask to take my temperature, and am I truly free at that point?
 

darz1

Member
Dec 18, 2017
7,075
The largest state in Australia has just gone 10 days in a row with 0 community transmission.
The state of Victoria, which went through a large second wave with sadly lots of deaths, locked down and is now down to 9 cases today.

And yes we have a conservative government with an evangelical leader. But we also have state leaders who have some sort of clue and everyone worked together.

It can be done and it should be done.



Call bullshit on that. It isn't draconic, it is what you do in a pandemic to save lives. Might as well call wearing a seat belt draconic too with that logic.
I'm in Victoria and as horrible as the second wave and extended lockdown has been, I am honestly so glad our government took it serious and we didn't end up with widespread outbreaks like the US. If there is one thing I can say without a doubt from our second wave is that the hard lockdown worked and we are seeing the light at the end of the tunnel.
 

dejay

Member
Nov 5, 2017
4,064
On the other hand the measures these countries are taking are draconic. Not saying that the US is doing the right thing. Obviously they are failing.

Auckland is moving to alert level 1 this week, to join the rest of the country in "chill mode" with virtually no restrictions and some guidelines. It's essentially don't be an idiot and if you get symptoms don't go to work and get tested. They've done this with an initial hard lock-down and adjusting conditions appropriately and a contact tracing system that works.

Even level 2 in NZ was pretty relaxed with masks only mandatory in a few situations (public transport and aircraft).

Australia is pretty similar except for one state (as previously mentioned) and hopefully they can get back on track soon as their daily cases are very low now. I think some lessons were learned and no doubt will be applied. For the rest of Australia, there are some mild restrictions on guest numbers, wedding sizes, etc, but it's possible to have a decent lifestyle. My state had a small spike in July-ish, and I saw mask use increase but it's eased off again as daily cases drop (we haven't had a community transmission for over 10 days now).
 

Dremorak

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,691
New Zealand
On the other hand the measures these countries are taking are draconic. Not saying that the US is doing the right thing. Obviously they are failing.
Speaking as someone who went through the most intense lockdown in the world, we had 100 days of life as normal after that, and after about 2 months of more relaxed lockdown and social distancing, masks etc, we're about to go back to normal again. I'd take a few months of lockdown to get back to normal over the chaos in the US and other places any day.
 

Spine Crawler

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
10,228
Auckland is moving to alert level 1 this week, to join the rest of the country in "chill mode" with virtually no restrictions and some guidelines. It's essentially don't be an idiot and if you get symptoms don't go to work and get tested. They've done this with an initial hard lock-down and adjusting conditions appropriately and a contact tracing system that works.

Even level 2 in NZ was pretty relaxed with masks only mandatory in a few situations (public transport and aircraft).

Australia is pretty similar except for one state (as previously mentioned) and hopefully they can get back on track soon as their daily cases are very low now. I think some lessons were learned and no doubt will be applied. For the rest of Australia, there are some mild restrictions on guest numbers, wedding sizes, etc, but it's possible to have a decent lifestyle.
I think we have been handling the situation pretty well here in germany too until late august/ september. now the cases are going up again (fortunately not as bad as in the rest of europe so far)
Speaking as someone who went through the most intense lockdown in the world, we had 100 days of life as normal after that, and after about 2 months of more relaxed lockdown and social distancing, masks etc, we're about to go back to normal again. I'd take a few months of lockdown to get back to normal over the chaos in the US and other places any day.
absolutely
Then what exactly is draconian about taking the needed measures early and being an a good place with it now? While they've gone back to some sense of normality we're rapidly headed back towards lockdowns again elsewhere
as I said maybe I have misworded what I was trying to say. I was thinking about measures that have taken place in korea or japan for example where many businesses still are not allowed to operate normally even though the infection curve has flattened.
 

Spine Crawler

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
10,228
"how draconian" was definitely how I felt in Taiwan last week as I went to party with my friends and cook barbecue for moon festival, go on a date, browse a mall, and attend a free doctor's appointment, all without fearing that I would contract a virus that would kill me or someone I love. These rules are so strict, someone might ask to take my temperature, and am I truly free at that point?
what I am getting from korea and japan from friends and family is that there are still many restrictions in place that would prevent festivals or partying.
 

Xiaomi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,237
what I am getting from korea and japan from friends and fa,ily is that there are still many restrictions in place that would prevent festivals or partying.

Those places, however, are not Taiwan. We've been 99% back to normal for months now, because our daily new cases have been zero or single digits from abroad for a long time.
 

WedgeX

Member
Oct 27, 2017
13,168
Pretty soon the White House outbreak will surpass the number of people infected for the rest of the District of Columbia (averaging about 6 per 100,000, or 36 people).
 

dejay

Member
Nov 5, 2017
4,064
I think we have been handling the situation pretty well here in germany too until late august/ september. now the cases are going up again (fortunately not as bad as in the rest of europe so far)

I think it's quite complex and all sorts of factors come into play. I don't think there much difference between a correct setting and an incorrect setting in terms of mitigation measures to keep R0<1 and it differs country to country, region to region, city to city and suburb to suburb.

It's also not what you do, it's how you do it and how you communicate it. If people don't have faith in the government it's never going to be enough. Stupidity from Q-dickheads and all the other conspiracy nutjobs out there don't help, but thankfully that seems to be very minimal here for now at least.

There's something to be said about freedom, but there's also something to be said for community action to tackle collective threats. I think some parts of the world have the right balance and some are too far either way. It doesn't help when some politicians choose to exploit the situation for political gain and not for the good of the people.
 

T-800

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,138
maybe. I was referring to certain measures that are in place which I believe are limiting personal freedom too much. for example you are not able to enter Japan at the moment if you are non-japanese. it doesnt matter if you have family there or if you had a negative covid test. you just cant enter.

I'm Australian and you can't come here unless you are a citizen and even then you have to enter Hotel quarantine for two weeks. These are sensible measures.
 

Spine Crawler

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
10,228
I'm Australian and you can't come here unless you are a citizen and even then you have to enter Hotel quarantine for two weeks. These are sensible measures.
even if you have family? my father in law died due to corona in japan and I couldn't attend the funeral. If you are being tested and going in quarantine anyway it shouldnt matter if you are japanese, australian german or whatever.
 

Xiaomi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,237
even if you have family? my father in law died due to corona in japan and I couldn't attend the funeral. If you are being tested and going in quarantine anyway it shouldnt matter if you are japanese, australian german or whatever.

It's aimed at preventing quarantine hotels from being overwhelmed. It can't be overstated how much it sucks to not be able to go to a funeral, but people who need to be in the country because they live there and work there have to take priority.
 
Oct 28, 2017
4,970
even if you have family? my father in law died due to corona in japan and I couldn't attend the funeral. If you are being tested and going in quarantine anyway it shouldnt matter if you are japanese, australian german or whatever.

From what I am aware, there are special circumstances where the government might give exceptions. But I believe they will make you go to the funeral and straight back with some sort of escort or tracking. There are no detours.

For non-citizens, I don't believe the Australian government would be terribly sympathetic. A potential outbreak, even if you quarantine, is not something anyone wants to occur. This risk increases dramatically if the number of people travelling in and out increases and quarantine gets overwhelmed with people. In the case of Victoria, the state that once hit ~700 cases a day and is still dealing with mass deaths in aged care, the initial spread seems to be a result of quarantine hotel staff getting sick. People might want to go to funerals but a whole lot of Victorian citizens are forced to arrange for funerals of their own because of hotel quarantine failing.

You see it as limiting personal freedoms to do things like attend funerals but do you think your personal freedoms to attend funerals are worth more than the potential risk of you getting quarantine staff sick and creating an outbreak that forces people to arrange and attend their own funerals? Quarantine isn't infallible. Some perspective is needed here in my opinion.
 
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SilentPanda

SilentPanda

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Nov 6, 2017
13,637
Earth
It's aimed at preventing quarantine hotels from being overwhelmed. It can't be overstated how much it sucks to not be able to go to a funeral, but people who need to be in the country because they live there and work there have to take priority.

And don't forget student intenational student, and the Taiwan government extending their visa.
 

bxsonic

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,224
I think COVID-19 is the first time I've seen masks becoming a political/ personal freedom issue. I don't remember seeing any of this crap when we had SARS (I know this is much easier to spread than SARS). I'm not sure if it's because of social media or the fact that this hits way more countries this time. It's just so dumb. It's a pandemic. Obviously, no one likes wearing mask and social distancing but it's something that we all have to do to protect ourselves and others. The more people understand that, the sooner the world will follow countries like Taiwan, New Zealand, etc and start to get this shit behind us.
 

Pet

More helpful than the IRS
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
7,070
SoCal
On the other hand the measures these countries are taking are draconic. Not saying that the US is doing the right thing. Obviously they are failing.

Draconic? lol

No one in Taiwan complained. As a result, a ton of my friends fled to Taiwan and am going to wait out COVID there, where they can have normal lives.
 

bananabread

Member
Oct 28, 2017
137
even if you have family? my father in law died due to corona in japan and I couldn't attend the funeral. If you are being tested and going in quarantine anyway it shouldnt matter if you are japanese, australian german or whatever.

Here in Perth (Western Australia) we've had no community transmission for months due to a hard border closure and we're currently facing a huge squeeze in the rental market because people have been returning en masse from living overseas to live in a covid-free region. I'd expect to see reporting on an unemployment problem in the future as well due to a glut of applicants. Anecdotally, on dating apps (Tinder etc) the number of professional looking late 20's early 30's women I see with 'just got back from living in London for a few years' (or similar) in their bio is probably about 1 in 4.

That's just with them allowing citizens in. I imagine there'd be even more people flying here hoping to wait Covid out if they were allowed to, and I wouldn't blame them. Life here is pretty much normal except that there's 80-100 people going to every home inspection
 

RRW

Member
Oct 26, 2017
999
How did a huge country like Vietnam get it done so well?

Early prevention, aggressive lockdown and contact tracing, and Full government intervention.

Honestly, solution that's work in Taiwan, NZ and Vietnam would not work In US 100%. You can have basic social distancing and mace mask. You won't get the number as low as them because of many factors. For country as big as US, If you want the number very low, then you need to be as aggressive as China did.
 

Deleted member 10726

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,674
ResetERA
On the other hand the measures these countries are taking are draconic. Not saying that the US is doing the right thing. Obviously they are failing.

If anything, the US approach of just letting people die is more draconic than making sure people stay safe. One predates the concept of organization by letting everyone fare for themselves while the latter attempts to keep people from getting infected while medicine tries to catch up.
 

MarioW

PikPok
Verified
Nov 5, 2017
1,155
New Zealand
Calling the restrictions in NZ "draconian" for any part of how we have handled this is ridiculous. And I say that as someone who spent the whole 7-9 weeks of actual lockdown on their own. We've taken reasonable measures that have minimized physical harm, have an economy which has taken a hit but is not in tatters, and life for the most part is "back to normal".
 
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SilentPanda

SilentPanda

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Nov 6, 2017
13,637
Earth
In a few days, more people in Trump's orbit tested positive for coronavirus than in all of Taiwan

More than a dozen White House officials have recently tested positive for the novel coronavirus, including some who are among the at least nine guests and two journalists who tested positive after they attended Amy Coney Barrett's Sept. 26 Supreme Court nomination event in the Rose Garden.

Meanwhile, Taiwan — the self-ruled island home to 23 million people — reported just eight new cases in the past week.

In January, a Taiwanese health official raised serious alarm about the virus in an attempt to warn the rest of the world about what could come next.

But it was months before many other governments realized the virus was set to upend the world as we know it.

s hospital wards became overwhelmed in hot spots across the globe, Taiwan — which was prepared to launch intensive contact-tracing initiatives — has managed to avoid the worst of the pandemic. The island has confirmed just 521 coronavirus cases and seven deaths, according to a Johns Hopkins University tally. The vast majority of cases have not been domestically transmitted.