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ST or PT?

  • Sequel trilogy

    Votes: 1,062 59.1%
  • Prequel trilogy

    Votes: 771 42.9%

  • Total voters
    1,796

Roders

Member
Oct 27, 2017
55
Northern Ireland
There's always been a ton of hyperbole that surrounds all the discussion around Star Wars, but I don't think it's hyperbolic at all to say Rise of Skywalker severely damages the legacy of Star Wars, not just within the context of the Sequel Trilogy, but the Original Trilogy as well. On the whole, I feel that way about the ST in general, that it hurts the Original Trilogy's legacy, ideas, iconography, etc.; but man, does Rise of Skywalker go for the kill shot.
You can't really kill what's already dead though. I feel your entire last sentence is describing the prequels, in addition to being so so poorly made, they just shit all over the OT's legacy and completely miss what made it so loved. It's like George actually went out of his way to ruin Vader, Yoda, Palpatine, C3PO, Boba Fett, the Force, Jedi Knights etc. Anakin is the most disappointing thing ever put on film. As I posted earlier, the PT was only ever referenced as the butt of jokes, it became embarrassing to be a fan of Star Wars. I think one of the reasons TFA got so hyped was because it was seen as a new hope (I know, I know), a chance that Star Wars could be good again, respected again. The ST didn't achieve that unfortunately, wasted potential in a different way, but the PT had already done such a number on the franchise.
 

Lunar Wolf

Banned
Nov 6, 2017
16,237
Los Angeles
You can't really kill what's already dead though. I feel your entire last sentence is describing the prequels, in addition to being so so poorly made, they just shit all over the OT's legacy and completely miss what made it so loved. It's like George actually went out of his way to ruin Vader, Yoda, Palpatine, C3PO, Boba Fett, the Force, Jedi Knights etc. Anakin is the most disappointing thing ever put on film. As I posted earlier, the PT was only ever referenced as the butt of jokes, it became embarrassing to be a fan of Star Wars. I think one of the reasons TFA got so hyped was because it was seen as a new hope (I know, I know), a chance that Star Wars could be good again, respected again. The ST didn't achieve that unfortunately, wasted potential in a different way, but the PT had already done such a number on the franchise.

Eh, The Clone Wars rejuvenates Anakin for most people.

Although I preferred Anakin like how he was in the movies. Not some saint but a douchebag with a lot of power that people turned a blind eye to because a prophecy said he would bring balance to the Force and he did...in the worst ways possible.
 
Oct 31, 2017
9,627
You can't really kill what's already dead though. I feel your entire last sentence is describing the prequels, in addition to being so so poorly made, they just shit all over the OT's legacy and completely miss what made it so loved. It's like George actually went out of his way to ruin Vader, Yoda, Palpatine, C3PO, Boba Fett, the Force, Jedi Knights etc. Anakin is the most disappointing thing ever put on film. As I posted earlier, the PT was only ever referenced as the butt of jokes, it became embarrassing to be a fan of Star Wars. I think one of the reasons TFA got so hyped was because it was seen as a new hope (I know, I know), a chance that Star Wars could be good again, respected again. The ST didn't achieve that unfortunately, wasted potential in a different way, but the PT had already done such a number on the franchise.

I actually think that with the Prequels, there was authorial intent in changing public perception towards the property, specifically attitudes towards Darth Vader and the lionization that Vader and the Empire received over time.

That they are films aimed at criticizing a huge portion of the Star Wars fanbase itself; that Anakin Skywalker is a stand-in for the real world, rabid, development arrested, (white male) fanboys/man-children who were obsessed with and consumed by Star Wars (and other toys/distractions).

That those are the very kinds of people that fascist movements are built off of. And we have seen it play out.

NYMag - Steve Bannon Saw the 'Monster Power' of Angry Gamers While Farming Gold in World of Warcraft

Beyond the ascension of Donald Trump in American politics and the people I personally know who were the types to lionize him, there were two other things that happened that made me see the Prequels in this light:

Dylann Roof and the atrocity he committed (2015 Charleston, SC Church Massacre ), and I was in a live-in relationship with someone with, most likely in my non-professional opinion, NPD who became increasingly manipulative/controlling/abusive. The relationship really made me reflect on that person, their life and myself, and my life and both of our personal experiences and what led us into the relationship; namely, what causes people to develop NPD traits and why did I succumb to it when I saw red-flags/warning signs all along the way.

The Sequels tried to do something similar to this with Ben Solo and his Vader Worship, but it doesn't really land quite the same.

I think both sets of trilogies are flawed, but I really do believe that the Prequel trilogy has much more depth to them and that the Sequel trilogy is incredibly shallow by comparison.

That for the great cinematography, talented actors, and overall high production values that all was carefully considered in a post Prequels world, the Sequel movies just come across as the corporate, art-by-committee that they truly are rather than being something larger and from a more sincere place.

The PT is a series of films that attacks the pop culture machine and the overall culture it facilitates, while the ST does the opposite and says "Hey, pop culture really is as important as you all think!".
 
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Sanctuary

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,233
They were both bad, but the sequel trilogy had overall better acting, more practical (and better looking) effects and will age a whole lot better as well.
 

CloudWolf

Member
Oct 26, 2017
15,636
The Force Awakens is slightly better than the Prequel Trilogy
The Last Jedi is much better than the Prequel Trilogy
Rise of Skywalker is worse than both Phantom Menace and Revenge of the Sith
 

Htown

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,320
There is nothing in the ST that can even match Darth Maul or General Greivious.
see this is the kind of stuff i'm talking about

Darth Maul is a nothing character. He's scary face paint attached to a cool lightsaber. He might as well just be a mean-looking robot the bad guys turn on in the last act of the movie. Everything good about him comes out of Clone Wars, and to a lesser extent Rebels. Unfortunately, Clone Wars is not one of the prequels.
 

Blank

Member
Oct 27, 2017
447
I voted PT but if I'm talking JUST the movies, then I'd go with ST. That said, PT gave us clone wars which is better than either trilogy so that's really what's getting my vote.
 

RedVejigante

Member
Aug 18, 2018
5,647
see this is the kind of stuff i'm talking about

Darth Maul is a nothing character. He's scary face paint attached to a cool lightsaber. He might as well just be a mean-looking robot the bad guys turn on in the last act of the movie. Everything good about him comes out of Clone Wars, and to a lesser extent Rebels. Unfortunately, Clone Wars is not one of the prequels.
Yeah, one of my biggest problems with the prequels, even back when they first released and I was still largely making excuses for their flaws, was that they had no direct, consistent threat throughout the films. In the OT the emperor was the ultimate bad guy but you had Vader as the direct, iconic, physical threat to our heroes throughout all the films. Between Maul, Dooku, and Grievous, it felt like the PT was constantly swapping out one-dimensional antagonists for seemingly no other reason than an excuse to pump out more toys.
 
Oct 8, 2019
9,144
Yeah, one of my biggest problems with the prequels, even back when they first released and I was still largely making excuses for their flaws, was that they had no direct, consistent threat throughout the films. In the OT the emperor was the ultimate bad guy but you had Vader as the direct, iconic, physical threat to our heroes throughout all the films. Between Maul, Dooku, and Grievous, it felt like the PT was constantly swapping out one-dimensional antagonists for seemingly no other reason than an excuse to pump out more toys.

Darth Maul was killed because you needed the equivalent to blowing up the Death Star (this is why the Fellowship of the Ring introduces Lurtz, you want to end the first movie with an accomplishment). Count Dooku was killed to setup Anakin's turn to the Dark Side and Grievous was probably created to give Obi-Wan something to do, the problem is when you put all three films together, none of them really standout outside of Darth Maul because of Ray Park's performance.

In the case of the villains the Original Trilogy is really the only one that seems to have gotten it right, with Tarkin coming off as menacing, the Emperor just being pure evil, the various admirals doing a decent job and Vader obviously being one of the most well developed villains in movie history.
 

newmoneytrash

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,981
Melbourne, Australia
the sequel trilogy has much, much higher highs, but the prequel trilogy has the benefit of telling a single cohesive story

rise of skywalker is a much lower low than anything the prequels did to me
 

BizzyBum

Member
Oct 26, 2017
9,157
New York
ROS was so bad it made me retroactively like the prequel trilogy more than the sequel trilogy because it made the sequel trilogy a gigantic waste of everyone's time.
 

Helot_Azure

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
1,521
The Prequels were terrible films in just about every respect. The Sequels were actually decent movies overall, just work terribly as a single narrative over three films.
 

julian

Member
Oct 27, 2017
16,788
I agree with you OP. I don't know if I'll ever rewatch the prequels, but they disappointed me and did nothing to really sully the original films. The sequel trilogy was offensive in its pandering and generally left me feeling with a sense of, "what the fuck was the point of any of that?" I was able to enjoy the first two films cause they had enough good, but not sticking the landing matters. Which sucks cause Mark Hamill fucking killed it in the second film.
 

a916

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,841
The prequels are by far the worst set of films, however the prequels also followed a storyline through (the level of execution is definitely questionable).

The sequel trilogy has this crazy tone whiplash and the last one was just all kinds of messy. It just doesn't seem like they knew what direction to take it and at the last minute were like, let's tie it in with the other films and it came across as rushed.

If we're counting individual films, then ST, if we're counting the entire set, narratively, I have to give it to the PT.
 

EdgeXL

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,788
California
Anakin: You are so…beautiful.
Padme: It's only because I'm so in love.
Anakin: No. No, it's because I'm so in love with you.
 

UnderSiege

Member
Mar 5, 2019
2,693
The only movie out of all six of them that I'm actually looking forward to rewatch again in a while is TLJ. I really wouldn't mind never seeing the other five movies ever again. So, the sequel trilogy wins.
 

FFNB

Associate Game Designer
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
6,126
Los Angeles, CA
The sequel by a long shot. Each film has faults (which is true of the entire 9 movie saga), but the gravest sin of the prequels are that they suffer from poor writing and terrible performances by the majority of the cast not named Liam Neeson, Ewan MacGregor, and Ian McDiarmid.

I recently rewatched Revenge of the Sith, and it truly could have been a good movie (the novelization is actually really good), but the dialogue and weak performance by Hayden Christensen kill it.

The sequels have better dialogue and acting, with more likable and human characters, even if the narratives of each film stumble in various spots. I thoroughly enjoyed the sequel trilogy, even if I wasn't the biggest fan of some of the plot decisions in TLJ and TRoS. They're much easier to rewatch for me than the prequels.

The Clone Wars Cartoon is fantastic though, and that's where I get my prequel fix.
 

Nairume

SaGa Sage
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,943
I really don't know about including Neeson in the shortlist of good performances in the prequels. His sleepwalking through TPM only gets outshined by the prequels inexplicably making a sleepy Sam Jackson a constant sight.
 

Soj

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,708
I'd rather watch the prequels than the Abrams movies, but TLJ is my favourite of all of them.

I don't know how to answer.
 

Farmboy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,150
The Force Awakens is slightly better than the Prequel Trilogy
The Last Jedi is much better than the Prequel Trilogy
Rise of Skywalker is worse than both Phantom Menace and Revenge of the Sith

This is where I am, except I think I liked TFA more than you did. I dislike it for all the straightforward reasons (too much of a retread, too safe), but it does introduce a whole bunch of interesting and fun new characters, which the PT does not.

But TROS is such an unexpectedly huge, unmitigated mess that I can kind of see why, with that film fresh in your mind, you might hate the ST just a little bit more.

I really don't know about including Neeson in the shortlist of good performances in the prequels. His sleepwalking through TPM only gets outshined by the prequels inexplicably making a sleepy Sam Jackson a constant sight.

Yes, this. I actually think McGregor looks lost in TPM as well, but gets the hang of it in AOTC. The only performance I liked in TPM is Portman's (well, and McDiarmid I guess). She's obviously terrible in the other two, though that's mostly the material and her being unable to pretend it's good.
 
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Shigs

Member
Oct 31, 2017
1,611
Los Angeles
I was going to make this thread until I found it already existed. Sorry if this is considered resurrecting a dead thread.

There's good and bad in both, but ultimately, I prefer the sequel trilogy.

Prequel Trilogy: STRENGTHS

Good world-building that felt very different from the original trilogy, unlike the sequels.

Gave us some fun villains in Count Dooku, General Grievous and Darth Maul.

The Podracing and Maul vs. Obi-wan fight were fun scenes in "Phantom Menace"

"Revenge of the Sith" is arguably a pretty good SW movie and better than TROS, Solo, and some others.

It gave us "The Clone Wars" animated series. GO WATCH THE FINAL SEASON STARING WITH EPISODE 9!! IT'S SOME OF THE BEST SW EVER!!

WEAKNESSES

Attack of the Clones may be the worst SW movie. Heavily dated and overused CGI, the terrible romance between Anikan and Padme, Yoda's lightsaber fight looking kinda goofy and a climax of a bunch of Jedi in an arena looking like SW fans LARPing.

The acting. Oh GOD! The terrible acting! Some incredibly talented actors trying hard to work with terrible dialogue and it made them look stiff and wooden. Only Ian McCallum, Ray Park and Ewan Mcgregor came out unscathed.

Anakin and Padme's romance. So forced, so wooden, so painful to watch!!

Jar-Jar Binks. So bad, his role got smaller and smaller with episodes two and three.

Padme gives birth and names her two children, but loses the will to live?! I don't care how heartbroken you are, who loses the will to live after just giving birth?! What? Raising your likely force-sensitive children to possibly save the galaxy isn't enough?!

George Lucas. Do you know why A New Hope was so great? Because Fox kept telling Lucas "no" and kept tightening the purse strings. It forced him to keep his vision narrow and focused to the point that it made a great film. A third of the movie was supposed to be in Adlerann until they just had it blown up to reduce the budget. But the PT?! Lucas did not have a "no" man. He did whatever he wanted and barely edited anything out. Lucas was already showing signs that his directing chops were in the past. Pretty much any Lucas movie after Willow was crap. Lucas is a great world builder and character creator and even a decent storyteller, but not a good director. (Well, I did kinda like Red Tails).

Now, don't get me wrong, I think Lucas can still be a great value to the SW franchise provided he's in a producer/guidance role. Clone Wars is proof of that. He had a lot of creative control but did not overstep and worked with Dave Filoni to create a great series. In fact, I wish Lucas had more creative input in the Disney era.

Sequel trilogy: STRENGTHS

The first two are genuinely good films. The Force Awakens may tread a lot of old ground, but it gives us Rey, Finn, and Kylo it FEELS like Star Wars even if it doesn't do a lot new. Last Jedi went the opposite route and took risks, went against our expectations, and told a strong, if not polarizing story that could have almost ended the saga right there.

Rey and Kylo Ren. While TROS ruined everything, the main hero and villain of this trilogy were very well done and fascinating characters. We deeply wanted to know more of their backstory and both were played by great actors.

Poe Dameron. I like Poe. He's basically Han Solo while not being nearly as important.

BB-8. C'mon!! You can't deny that BB-8 is cute.

Practical effects. Puppets will always be more visually appealing than outdated CGI.

Porgs. The Ewoks of the ST.

Strong acting. Were the PT had horrible acting, the sequels shine. Except for the squabbling that takes place in TROS.

Speaking of, while Palpatine's existence in TROS basically ruins the Skywalker Saga, that doesn't mean there are not some good/fun moments in that movie. C-3PO had some of his best moments ever, I loved Lando's return and I thought the two new characters were interesting if underused. While I enjoy TROS more than AOTC, that movie does more harm to the franchise than good. Speaking of...

WEAKNESSES:

The Rise of Skywalker. Say what you will, Revenge of the Sith stuck the landing. It was far from perfect, but it was a satisfying enough ending. TROS on the other hand not only misses the landing, it slides off the runway into a bomb factory. UGH! "Somehow, the Emporer returned?!!" Somehow?!! Is he a clone?! A dark force spirit inhabiting a body?!! Give us a clear, fucking answer!

Finn's journey. You can basically say Finn's journey was over at the end of Last Jedi. He went from still trying to run away to being 'rebel scum'. Say what you want about Rose, but she helped bring him to that point. In TROS, there's nothing left for him to do. Oh wait! He finds he's force sensitive (actually did they really mention that in the movie or am I thinking about stuff they said in interviews?) and meets another Stormtrooper who has defected just like him! Does this mean we will see him use the force? Will he now struggle to kill stormtroopers. knowing many are not unlike him?! Nope. None of that is explored. Instead, its all "REY! REY! REY!! REEEEEEY!!!"

Palpatine in general. I don't care how great and hammy Ian McCullum is, his character shouldn't be here. It just screws everything up. The fact that Palpatine returns means everything that happened in the OT was for basically nothing.

Rey's parentage. It should have been left with The Last Jedi. No one is special because of birthright. There's no reason Rey could not have been a powerful Jedi without it being tied to another famous force user.

That undeserved kiss. She can forgive him and hug him goodbye, but c'mon! He tried to kill you an hour ago!

Canto Bight. I'm not saying it didn't have it's importance to Finn's character building, it just could have been handled better.

JJ Abrahms. He's an odd director. Abrahms did great on his first Star Tek and pretty good on his first Star Wars, but the second of those two he directed had so much fan service that I'm surprised he wasn't at every theater showing offering out handjobs. Fanservice is okay as long as it doesn't detract from the story, But sadly, Abrahams doesn't seem to know how to do that. "Oh, fans were joking about how Chewie doesn't have a medal in ANH? I'll give him Han's at the end of this movie out of fucking nowhere for no reason! Let's bring back Palpatine instead of giving Kylo more character development! Don't worry, I'll make sure I include everything from 'Last Jedi'. Oh? Some assholes didn't like Rose?! Can't use her! Let's keep using that thing where Kylo and Rey can touch each other from miles away even though it was Snoke who was behind that."

It's not just Abrahms' fault. Kathleen Kennedy should have had the basic plot structure of this entire trilogy written out from the start. Instead, they would go from film to film and panic over any criticism and try to fix those problems, but usually, only make things worse. TFA too much like ANH? Make sure the next one has a ton of unexpected moments (but still have a Hoth battle). Oh? Some small amount of fans hated Rose? Better leave her almost completely out of the new one! Oops!! We killed off Snoke too soon! Better bring back Palpatine!! It's not that they didn't listen to the fans, they listened to all the wrong reasons and frankly, listened to the wrong fans as well. They were so afraid of messing up that the final one wasn't creative in the least. At least "The Last Jedi" was original.

While I still prefer the sequel trilogy over the prequel, it's still almost 50/50 with me thanks to TROS. Funny, the third movie of the PT was the best while the third movie of the ST was the worst.
 

Border

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,859
I don't see how this is even debatable. ST has 1 bad movie, 1 great movie, 1 good movie. Prequels are all just varying degrees of bad. I can't think of anyone that would rate Phantom Menace over Force Awakens. I can't think of anyone that would rate Attack of the Clones over The Last Jedi. Even if you like Revenge of the Sith better than Rise of Skywalker, that still means only 1/3 of the prequels are better than the sequels.
 

Mar Tuuk

Member
Oct 31, 2017
2,566
I liked the world building and rise of Palpatine in the prequels. The buildup to the point where everything becomes the "dark times" is amazing.
Hell it gave us an actual war in Star Wars and no rebels constantly running from the empire.
 

Stone Cold

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,466
I voted sequels but I think they both suck. Only saw the first two sequel movies and don't have any interest to see how it concludes, but the prequels were a dumpster fire too. Remember when Star Wars used to feel special? Yeah, I miss that too.
 

Jarmel

The Jackrabbit Always Wins
Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,384
New York
I think the sequel trilogy does more damage to the Star Wars universe despite having the best movie of the 6. Rise just fucks up too many things retroactively and going forward.
 

Jhey Cyphre

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,091
I think the sequel trilogy does more damage to the Star Wars universe despite having the best movie of the 6. Rise just fucks up too many things retroactively and going forward.

Thank you. This is where I am at with Star Wars in general now.

I just don't give a shit about the Skywalker era anymore at all.
 

Deleted member 59109

User requested account closure
Banned
Aug 8, 2019
7,877
It's the prequels because they have a much more interesting setting/universe. They also tend to have cooler characters and I'd even say better duels/fight scenes (Darth Maul vs. Obi Wan/Qui Gon and Jango vs Obi Wan come to mind).

The sequels are just kind of a mess with hardly any good parts.
 

CKT

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Feb 1, 2020
619
Sequel trilogy at least has last Jedi, none of the prequels are good movies imo
 

Jarmel

The Jackrabbit Always Wins
Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,384
New York
The sequel trilogy fucked up the Star Wars universe so bad that they're gonna have to possibly do another time skip to unfuck it.
 

Davilmar

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,268
Tough, since both are very flawed works. The prequel trilogy have cohesion and more interesting story ideas that feel connected to each other. The sequel trilogy has a bland film, an overrated and above average film, and an outright bad film. I prefer the prequel just for the memes and mockery.
 

Big One

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,277
The sequel trilogy is undoubtedly better. Yes, even Rise of Skywalker.

The only thing that I really hated about the sequel trilogy aside from some shoddy film-work is the complete disregard for lore and worldbuilding.
 

DarthSpider

The Fallen
Nov 15, 2017
2,958
Hiroshima, Japan
The sequels are objectively better movies, but the prequels do a much better job of being relevant to and filling out the overall story. Not just with Anakin/Vader, but with the state of the galaxy, the mindset of the Jedi as an organization, the Republic/senate, etc.