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Which fourth generation "Classic" Mini has the best pre-installed library?
- Thread starter andymcc
- Start date
OP
OP
it's a fucking awesome game system? like seriously. educate yourself.
I was asking for a PC Engine mini (pleasantly surprised that Konami actually listened).
Now Nintendo/Sega where are my N64 Classic and Saturn Classic ?
I didn't really play many MD or PC Engine games so far, which is why I won't participate in the poll. There are some minor issues* dampening my excitement slightly, but I'm still looking very much forward to trying out these systems for the first time.
MD= 3-button controllers, apparently worst game selection among regions / PCE= comparatively high price, only one controller packed in, the inclusion of a Japanese-only text adventure, terrible communication
I'm not really qualified to talk about the Neo Geo. I'm not into fighting games and my experience with its library is limited to Metal Slug, Pulstar and Last Resort.
OP
OP
As someone with a pretty large classic games collection, my answer is 'so far, I don't really want any of them'.
For me, unreleased games are one of the few things that might get me to get something like these someday. On this front, of the three, the most interesting is the SNES, because it has the previously unreleased Star Fox 2. The two unreleased games on the Genesis Mini, Tetris and Darius, aren't nearly as interesting (both are on lots of other systems after all), and the TG16 Mini has no unreleased games. So on the unreleased games front, I'd say SNES > Genesis, TG16 didn't compete.
As for import games -- putting games from other regions on the thing, without making you buy one from another region to get some -- the SNES has none, and even if you get the Japanese one, there isn't a very different library. The Genesis has Monster World IV and Mega Man: The Wily Wars, which are nice inclusions, though MWIV in English did previously see release on the Wii, X360, and PS3 as a download and Mega Man TWW had Japanese and European physical-cart releases back then. The Genesis/MD Minis locks most other-region games to the other versions of the thing, unfortunately, so you need to hack it or buy three of them to get most of the import games -- this is a definite negative! Like, that list of games is pretty good, apart from the omission of Sega's best game ever (Sonic 3 & Knuckles), but it's way too broken up across regions, I'd never buy three of them. As for the Turbo/PCE Mini, it's very cool that apparently all of the games will be in all of the systems, except for that one game which is exclusive to the white model (Tokimeki Memorial), that's great. If that is indeed how it works, on imports the TG16 Mini wins easily since there are a bunch of them and you actually get them without needing to import other region mini consoles to get them.
And last, what about the game selections in general? Well, the SNES Mini has a small but focused library of many of the consoles' best and most popular games. For overall quality and best representing the console the games came from, the SNES Mini is probably the best of this batch, though it is unfortunate that some games are only on each of the two models -- why no Tetris Attack in the US one, for example? Some genres are totally missing as well, such as shmups (and there are some great SNES shmups!). Still, it is a good lineup. Nintendo got key third party support for many of the top third-party games on the console.
The Genesis Mini has a very good library as well, but it's held back by lots of games being exclusive to various regions and the consoles' best game being absent. Sega also got solid third-party support from a bunch of publishers, which is great, but while Nintendo has a few key games only on each regions' version, Sega has way too many.
As for the Turbografx Mini, it's an interesting library. I'm not sure what to think... on the one hand it's a pretty good lineup with lots of good games. On the other hand, it is heavily weighted to Hudson and Konami games. Now, in the US, NEC or TTI published almost all games, and the US games in the TG16 Mini are all NEC or Working Designs (their two HuCard Taito ports only, not any of the CD games)-published titles. Makes sense. The NEC US-published titles are mostly Hudson games (including Hudson's ports of Falcom's Ys I & II and Irem's R-Type), but there are also one each from NEC, Irem, and NCS Masaya (Space Harrier (licensed from Sega), Ninja Spirit, Moto Roader). As for the Japanese library, it's mostly Konami and Hudson releases (including Hudson's ports of Tecmo's Ninja Gaiden and Falcom's Ys I & II). The exceptions -- NEC's ports of the Capcom game Ghouls & Ghosts and the Sega game Fantasy Zone; NCS Masaya's Cho Aniki; and Taito's Super Darius. It's a very good lineup but it could be a bit better -- I'd have liked to see some of NEC's original titles, for example -- how about Metamor Jupiter, Magicoal, Gotzendeiner, and such? Some of Falcom's own games would have been great too, most notably the two Legend of Xanadu games. Etc.
As for my own personal thoughts on the game choices, looking at my 'favorite games' list, 10 of my top 20 (and ~6-10 more of my next 50) TG16/PCE/CD games are in the TG16 Mini. The US Genesis Mini has 7 of my top 15 (and 12 of my next 50); two more is only in the Asia version, but that version doesn't have two of the ones on my list the us one does have. SNES Classic has 7 of my top 15. There's one more is in the jp version, but it loses a game from my list. (and like 4 of my next 50, again with one more and one less in Japan). So, the SNES has the fewest games I really like. On the other hand, all of the SNES games are good games, while the other two use spots on mediocre to poor games, so it's close.
In closing, I'll continue to stick with my physical-games collection for these platforms, they're three of the best consoles ever and while these devices are nice, they never include all of the games I want, because they can't. And if you're just buying them to hack them and put roms on them, there's no reason to buy a mini console for that, you can do that almost anywhere. I'd rather play the real games anyway. But for people buying these because they look cool and get you legit copies of classic games, if I was going to recommend one of these based on the libraries, if the emulation is good -- and this is definitely a big if, we have no idea yet -- maybe get the Turbografx one, since it's less likely that people have played those games than the ones in the Genesis or SNES mini systems and the system is very close to as great as the SNES and Genesis are.
For me, unreleased games are one of the few things that might get me to get something like these someday. On this front, of the three, the most interesting is the SNES, because it has the previously unreleased Star Fox 2. The two unreleased games on the Genesis Mini, Tetris and Darius, aren't nearly as interesting (both are on lots of other systems after all), and the TG16 Mini has no unreleased games. So on the unreleased games front, I'd say SNES > Genesis, TG16 didn't compete.
As for import games -- putting games from other regions on the thing, without making you buy one from another region to get some -- the SNES has none, and even if you get the Japanese one, there isn't a very different library. The Genesis has Monster World IV and Mega Man: The Wily Wars, which are nice inclusions, though MWIV in English did previously see release on the Wii, X360, and PS3 as a download and Mega Man TWW had Japanese and European physical-cart releases back then. The Genesis/MD Minis locks most other-region games to the other versions of the thing, unfortunately, so you need to hack it or buy three of them to get most of the import games -- this is a definite negative! Like, that list of games is pretty good, apart from the omission of Sega's best game ever (Sonic 3 & Knuckles), but it's way too broken up across regions, I'd never buy three of them. As for the Turbo/PCE Mini, it's very cool that apparently all of the games will be in all of the systems, except for that one game which is exclusive to the white model (Tokimeki Memorial), that's great. If that is indeed how it works, on imports the TG16 Mini wins easily since there are a bunch of them and you actually get them without needing to import other region mini consoles to get them.
And last, what about the game selections in general? Well, the SNES Mini has a small but focused library of many of the consoles' best and most popular games. For overall quality and best representing the console the games came from, the SNES Mini is probably the best of this batch, though it is unfortunate that some games are only on each of the two models -- why no Tetris Attack in the US one, for example? Some genres are totally missing as well, such as shmups (and there are some great SNES shmups!). Still, it is a good lineup. Nintendo got key third party support for many of the top third-party games on the console.
The Genesis Mini has a very good library as well, but it's held back by lots of games being exclusive to various regions and the consoles' best game being absent. Sega also got solid third-party support from a bunch of publishers, which is great, but while Nintendo has a few key games only on each regions' version, Sega has way too many.
As for the Turbografx Mini, it's an interesting library. I'm not sure what to think... on the one hand it's a pretty good lineup with lots of good games. On the other hand, it is heavily weighted to Hudson and Konami games. Now, in the US, NEC or TTI published almost all games, and the US games in the TG16 Mini are all NEC or Working Designs (their two HuCard Taito ports only, not any of the CD games)-published titles. Makes sense. The NEC US-published titles are mostly Hudson games (including Hudson's ports of Falcom's Ys I & II and Irem's R-Type), but there are also one each from NEC, Irem, and NCS Masaya (Space Harrier (licensed from Sega), Ninja Spirit, Moto Roader). As for the Japanese library, it's mostly Konami and Hudson releases (including Hudson's ports of Tecmo's Ninja Gaiden and Falcom's Ys I & II). The exceptions -- NEC's ports of the Capcom game Ghouls & Ghosts and the Sega game Fantasy Zone; NCS Masaya's Cho Aniki; and Taito's Super Darius. It's a very good lineup but it could be a bit better -- I'd have liked to see some of NEC's original titles, for example -- how about Metamor Jupiter, Magicoal, Gotzendeiner, and such? Some of Falcom's own games would have been great too, most notably the two Legend of Xanadu games. Etc.
As for my own personal thoughts on the game choices, looking at my 'favorite games' list, 10 of my top 20 (and ~6-10 more of my next 50) TG16/PCE/CD games are in the TG16 Mini. The US Genesis Mini has 7 of my top 15 (and 12 of my next 50); two more is only in the Asia version, but that version doesn't have two of the ones on my list the us one does have. SNES Classic has 7 of my top 15. There's one more is in the jp version, but it loses a game from my list. (and like 4 of my next 50, again with one more and one less in Japan). So, the SNES has the fewest games I really like. On the other hand, all of the SNES games are good games, while the other two use spots on mediocre to poor games, so it's close.
In closing, I'll continue to stick with my physical-games collection for these platforms, they're three of the best consoles ever and while these devices are nice, they never include all of the games I want, because they can't. And if you're just buying them to hack them and put roms on them, there's no reason to buy a mini console for that, you can do that almost anywhere. I'd rather play the real games anyway. But for people buying these because they look cool and get you legit copies of classic games, if I was going to recommend one of these based on the libraries, if the emulation is good -- and this is definitely a big if, we have no idea yet -- maybe get the Turbografx one, since it's less likely that people have played those games than the ones in the Genesis or SNES mini systems and the system is very close to as great as the SNES and Genesis are.
But thats just Era polls in general. It is just popularity contests. And we already know Nintendo is bigger than the other choices in the poll.
SNES and for me it's not close.
Loaded with classics and games I simply enjoy more than others.
Loaded with classics and games I simply enjoy more than others.
Most of Sega's own MD racing games were arcade ports and they tried to shy away from including straight arcade ports as a general rule (hence why Outrun 2019, a middling game that's not even theirs, is on a Mini over their own port of the original Outrun).
I guess it'd depend on how granular you want to get with the categories, there are a ton of sidescrollers to sift through and you'd have to determine what's a platformer, what's an "action game", what's a run and gun, etc.
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I also want to say this, I noticed that the SNES Classic, Genesis Mini and even the AtGames Flashback Legends Console all have a version of Street Fighter 2, Ghouls N' Ghosts and minimum of 1 Mega Man game on each machine.
Makes me realize Capcom's holy trinity of games to include in legacy consoles are Street Fighter 2, Ghouls N' Ghosts and Mega Man. Well, PS Classic didn't get the trinity since Ghouls N' Ghosts never came out on the PS1 and the PS Classic didn't get a Mega Man game when X4 could have been an option. Also Genesis Mini in US/EU and Asia got Strider.
Makes me realize Capcom's holy trinity of games to include in legacy consoles are Street Fighter 2, Ghouls N' Ghosts and Mega Man. Well, PS Classic didn't get the trinity since Ghouls N' Ghosts never came out on the PS1 and the PS Classic didn't get a Mega Man game when X4 could have been an option. Also Genesis Mini in US/EU and Asia got Strider.
Is a tough decision.
The SNES mini lineup is extremely safe, like Nintendo didn't took any risks with it, but at the same time, 19 of the 20 games included are all top 50 games on the console (Fuck Dream Course) and Star Fox 2 is a nice novelty.
The Genesis in the other hand has a considerable chunk of games that are not exactly that good, but at the same time the lineup is so diverse with lots of hidden gems that people may know discover that I really appreciate how SEGA took way more risks than Nintendo with the lineup.
And the PC Engine has the novelty that excluding Rondo of Blood and 2 or 3 other games, their line up is so obscure, full of games that would be impossible to get now on the western market, giving you the full japanese experience that the turbografx never got, is such a novelty that I really love what Konami did.
My conclussion is, I can't believe how much Sony fucked up with the PlayStation Classic
The SNES mini lineup is extremely safe, like Nintendo didn't took any risks with it, but at the same time, 19 of the 20 games included are all top 50 games on the console (Fuck Dream Course) and Star Fox 2 is a nice novelty.
The Genesis in the other hand has a considerable chunk of games that are not exactly that good, but at the same time the lineup is so diverse with lots of hidden gems that people may know discover that I really appreciate how SEGA took way more risks than Nintendo with the lineup.
And the PC Engine has the novelty that excluding Rondo of Blood and 2 or 3 other games, their line up is so obscure, full of games that would be impossible to get now on the western market, giving you the full japanese experience that the turbografx never got, is such a novelty that I really love what Konami did.
My conclussion is, I can't believe how much Sony fucked up with the PlayStation Classic
This was my exact thought when I was thinking about this and trying to decide. It's mostly going to come down to which system have I played the most of with the respective games and that's what it will be. The others can be great, very good games but since I have zero knowledge of them other than what I've heard, I can't use that as a basis to decide.
So yeah, SNES.
Might as well have included the NES and PSX Minis to make the poll just a tad more interesting.
Anyhow, game for game I'd probably have to say the SNES Mini. There's a lot of quality games on a single purchase that your currently cannot get elsewhere, and that's before you start modding. Asian Megadrive is a decent contender, but I'd have to see how many games have English versions included.
On that note, the Turbografx loses a lot of appeal with some of the better included games being Japanese only.
Anyhow, game for game I'd probably have to say the SNES Mini. There's a lot of quality games on a single purchase that your currently cannot get elsewhere, and that's before you start modding. Asian Megadrive is a decent contender, but I'd have to see how many games have English versions included.
On that note, the Turbografx loses a lot of appeal with some of the better included games being Japanese only.
OP
OP
yeah, with enough abstraction of a genre, you'd have people claiming Contra III is a shmup lmao
yeah, dunno even know what to say to that.
you don't think the pce/turbo or genesis/md have all time greats on them?
I grew up with all three and there was always something great on each. I suppose it has to be the SNES but I love so many games on Gen and PCE.
NeoGeo is great too but it's not "in" the 4th gen... no one really had one when it was current in the 4th gen. I played the hell out of it in the arcades but anyway.
SNES for me, multiplayer games in my circles was always on SNES so that's my vote.
NeoGeo is great too but it's not "in" the 4th gen... no one really had one when it was current in the 4th gen. I played the hell out of it in the arcades but anyway.
SNES for me, multiplayer games in my circles was always on SNES so that's my vote.
For me it's the Megadrive, but that's because I had one as a kid so I don't have the nostalgia hard on for the SNES library.
And as a kid I thought Star Fox was shit.
And as a kid I thought Star Fox was shit.
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The HK Mega Drive Mini is pretty much that, with some really great exclusives of its own.
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me too. i needed both of the boxarts i have the most nostalgia for lmao
U.S. Genesis gets VectorMan and Earthworm Jim so it wins. Alisia Dragoon, Wily Wars and Darius just put the whole thing over the top for value.
Oh and it gets the better playing versions of Street Fighter and Ghouls n Ghosts.
Oh and it gets the better playing versions of Street Fighter and Ghouls n Ghosts.
I like how you singled out only just two games out of the whole lot to try and make a point, when my point was that it's the sum of all those games together that make the SNES Classic the best lineup overall.
Just because one mini console has ONE game in ONE genre/series that is marginally better (and even that's arguable), doesn't suddenly make it the best mini console.
As for the games you singled out: Contra HC is nice, yes, but way too hard to be accessible or fun. I've had much more fun playing Contra 3 overall. Contra HC is an exercise in frustration and feels unfair. And don't you start moving the goalpost with hacks, rewind, or the Japanese version.
Yes, Rondo of Blood is superior, but it's pretty much the only game on the TG-16 mini that I'd rank in the same ballpark as the SNES Classic lineup. The rest are wholly unimpressive. So that's one game. Whoopty-doo!
I think SNES classic just barely wins out because its the only way to legally play Star Fox 2, a game that existed but never came out during that era. That alone adds alot of value to the purchase for me. The genesis games are damn good but thats the one thing that puts the SNES classic over the top for me.
OP
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Holy shit where to start with this.
The Hard Corps thing is a matter of personal preference/taste, I get that. But, you know what? You CAN include the Japanese version because the Genesis Mini DOES have the Japanese version as a selectable title in all territories. So, there is no goalpost moving-- that's the honest to god truth.
If you think the rest of the Turbografx lineup is "wholly unimpressive", I would honestly suggest that you either: A) don't have tremendous experience with the library or B) don't have a great interest in retro games outside of the marquee titles related to Nintendo.
What do you say about the SNES Classic genre representation for shmups/shooters? Strategy RPGs? belt-scroll action games? The SNES Classic excels at providing a good value for the classic Nintendo titles but what else? It is fine to prefer one to the other, but to suggest the other consoles didn't have great libraries is something else.
Nintendo fanboys are largely clueless about games on other consoles but still always insist that Nintendo games are "objectively superior" and "it's not even close".
Some of the replies here are probably coming from the same people who voted Starfox 64 the best fifth generation shooting game on OldGAF. I remember that giving me a good laugh at the time.
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I know I addressed this in my last post, but "Konami is the rightsholder for the entire Turbo library"? I highly doubt it! Obviously they have the Hudson and Konami libraries, and they seem to have the whole NEC US library as well, but the handful of games I listed previously from other publishers I imagine they needed to get the rights for for this collection. I wonder, do they have the rights to the NEC Japan library, or not? Again the only two NEC Japan games on this collection are Space Harrier (NEC's port of the Sega game) and Daimakaimura (NEC's port of the Capcom game), so NEC's large PCE (mostly CD) library is not representered here much at all. Hudson made most of the system's most prominent games, and NEC doesn't make games anymore of course so they probably don't care, but some of games are interesting...
Star Fox 64 is the best rail shooter ever made, though. (My top 5: Star Fox 64, Panzer Dragoon Orta, Panzer Dragoon, Space Harrier, Sin & Punishment. Star Fox 64 is an amazing, amazing classic.)
No, that's not really true. There is only like one noteworthy game on the TG16 Mini where you'll care about it not being in English -- Snatcher. All of the other games play totally fine -- shmups and platformers have no language barrier! Well, if you actually care about Momotarou Dentetsu (a board game for kids), Appare! Gateball (a sports game), or Necromancer (a super basic early RPG) then those also have a language barrier, but most probably wouldn't want to play them anyway. And though it's supposed to be a good dating sim style visual novel, for the PCE Mini with Tokimeki Memorial on it I doubt many people here would want to play that either. The only other Japanese text in the rest of those games that don't also have English versions on the unit are the story bits in a couple of games like Sapphire and Rondo of Blood, which are quite irrelevant to the actual gameplay. (Ninja Gaiden actually has a hidden English text option!)
This is why Neutopia, Neutopia II, Ys I & II, Nectaris/Military Madness, and Dungeon Explorer have both the English and Japanese versions available, those games are the other ones where being able to read the game matters. Sadly Snatcher wasn't released in the US on Turbo CD so they couldn't include that, and emulating a Sega CD just for that one game would be asking way too much...
And this is why I recommended people buy the TG16 Mini, you've clearly never played a Turbografx game before and really should, a lot of them are fantastic! This is particularly true if you like shmups -- the TG16/PCE/CD has, in my opinion, the best shmup library of any console ever. And it's not all that close. A fair number of the system's top shmups are on the TG16 Mini, too -- Gradius 1 and 2, Sapphire, Lords of Thunder, Cho Aniki, R-Type, Super Star Soldier, Blazing Lazers, Salamander, Soldier Blade, Star Parodier, Super Darius... amazing games! R-Type, Gradius 2, Blazing Lazers, and Sapphire are my favorites of that outstanding lineup, and certainly match the quality of the better games on the SNES Mini.
Outside of shmups the library is also pretty good. Top SNES and Genesis games beat many of those games, but many are also very fun and well worth playing. Like, Bonk's Adventure (here as PC Genjin; game is the same) and Bonk's Revenge aren't quite Mario World or Sonic the Hedgehog quality, but they are pretty good, fun A-grade platformers. Ys I & II is a classic for a reason. Military Madness is a good early predecessor to games like Advance Wars. The Neutopia games are solid NES-ish Zelda titles. Bomberman '93 and '94 are two of the best Bomberman games ever made and are definite classics. Alien Crush is one of the best pinball games of the generation. Etc.
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Just the other day here someone made a thread declaring three 2d Metroids the "best 2d trilogy in gaming". I asked what they thought of the three Gen/MD Shinobi games and they hadn't played them. If they were just praising Metroid, that would be cool, but to declare a best 2d series without having played a major Sega franchise is baffling to me.
The 16-bit generation is tied with Gen 6 (PS2/GCN/Xbox) as my favorite era in video games. I adore all consoles from this cycle. Every system had a tremendous library and I have decent experience with all of them.
...and I still think Nintendo at its best during this time was lightyears beyond anyone else. If that makes me a fanboy, cool.
And like why would anyone actually have a problem with someone believing Star Fox 64 is the best shooter of the fifth generation....that's not exactly an outlandish opinion to hold, whether you agree with it or not.
PC Engine because it's the way Nintendo and Sega should have done it - ditch the regional nonsense and have a larger collection that combines all regions.
I want to play MUSHA dammit!
I want to play MUSHA dammit!