Which fantasy universe has the biggest fanbase, Warcraft or Warhammer?

[Lightjolly]

I'm not asking which one you think is better, or you prefer more, just which is more popular.

I'm assuming Warhammer wins in tabletop and books while Warcraft edges out in video games?

 

[Westbahnhof]

I'm not really into either, but it has to be the infinitely huge MMO, right?

I personally really like Warhammer wiki diving, especially Warhammer 40k. What a hoot!

 

[Firestorm]

Warcraft and not even close? Especially globally.

 

[zon]

If you mean overall it might be Warhammer, if you only mean video games then Warcraft.

 

[Anoregon]

I assume more people are at least familiar with/have heard of Warcraft, but I don't really know much at all about the actual size of the Warhammer fanbase.
Total Warhammer 2 is fucking awesome though.

 

[Hippopuncher12]

I would say Warcraft but I also know nothing about Warhammer but it also being a huge board? (Not quite sure what it's categorized as) game might make it have a larger fan base. Not really sure how popular that stuff is.

 

[Redcrayon]

Warcraft likely more than wins out in terms of just computer games (even given the dozens of Warhammer games). But Games Workshop (which is pretty much interchangeable with Warhammer these days since they rebranded the stores) has an entire global retail business and publishing arm dedicated to its tabletop games, books, lore, model kits, paint etc in terms of combined fanbase. It's huge.

Wargaming—collecting and painting toy soldiers before fighting battles using dice, tape measures and often complicated rules—is surprisingly big business in Britain. The share price of Games Workshop, the best-known and biggest player in the industry, has risen 1,500% over the past five years, making it the best-performing British listed share over the period. With a market capitalisation of around £2.7bn ($3.4bn), it has overtaken Centrica, owner of British Gas, and Marks & Spencer.

Click to shrink...

Why Games Workshop is worth more than Marks & Spencer and Centrica

Disease and demographics have boosted the toy-soldier business

www.economist.com

 

[RoboitoAM]

All I know is that Total War Warhammer is fucking ace

 

[PlanetSmasher]

Definitely Warcraft, though it's probably closer than it was eight years ago.

 

[L4DANathan]

I feel like the answer 10 years ago would have been Warcraft easy, but between the lack of real growth of the Warcraft brand and the explosive growth of the Warhammer brand, I think Warhammer wins nowadays.

 

[Argentil]

Honestly, with the way Blizzard has treated the IP, I think they've lost a lot of fans. Whereas Warhammer's fandom is incredibly devoted and evergreen.

 

[karnage10]

Warhammer seems to be a bigger fan base has it boosts video games, books, tabletops, etc
War craft has 1 MMO and seems very limited outside of video games

 

[Deleted member 52442]

WAY closer than i thought

 

[Chopchop]

Warhammer is big, but I think ever since WoW became a thing, Warcraft became much closer to a household name.

Plenty of people have played wow, know someone who does, or at least has heard of it, even if they aren't into games themselves. I don't think I can say the same for Warhammer.

 

[HockeyBird]

Warhammer seems to be a bigger fan base has it boosts video games, books, tabletops, etc
War craft has 1 MMO and seems very limited outside of video games

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Warcraft has the most successful MMO, a movie, a popular online card game, tons of merchandise, and several books. I would say Warcraft has the overall bigger fanbase but Warhammer has the greater number of hardcore fans.

 

[Evolution of Metal]

I think Warhammer has more fanbase, as stupid as it sounds, because most people who are into Warhammer are typically into Warhammer as fans.

Warcraft easily has more players in WoW/HS than there are combined Warhammer toys+games players, but those Warcraft players are nowhere near as much into Warcraft universe as Warhammer fans are into their lore/books/stories. This is why GW can fleece their customers with absurd prices: because their fanbase is much more dedicated to the subject.

You can play Heartstone or WoW as an MMO, but without being the fan of Warcraft universe, just playing them as competent social/card/MMO games.

 

[NDA-Man]

Its a tough call. A decade, maybe fifteen years ago, I'd say Warcraft in a heartbeat. Because WOW was that monolithic. Its a lot closer today, although to be honest, it might just be the corners of the web I lurk at, but Warhammer fantasy always seemed like the less important part of the brand compared to 40K.

 

[Redcrayon]

I think Warhammer has more fanbase, as stupid as it sounds, because most people who are into Warhammer are typically into Warhammer as fans.

Warcraft easily has more players in WoW/HS than there are combined Warhammer toys+games players, but those Warcraft players are nowhere near as much into Warcraft universe as Warhammer fans are into their lore/books/stories. This is why GW can fleece their customers with absurd prices: because their fanbase is much more dedicated to the subject.

You can play Heartstone or WoW as an MMO, but without being the fan of Warcraft universe, just playing them as competent social/card/MMO games.

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To be fair you can do the same with Warhammer. Plenty of people only play BloodBowl (tabletop or the computer games), or Total War, or Space Hulk or Underworlds without ever looking at the tabletop wargames like AoS or 40K. There's also a ton of people who only read the novels, or only collect and paint the kits. It's all connected but there's definitely hobbyists on the periphery.

 

[DiipuSurotu]

Why is the order of the names different between the thread title and the poll 🧐

 

[Dolce]

WAY closer than i thought

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https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&q=%2Fm%2F021dvx,Warhammer

I'm not sure how accurate that is. It depends on the term you use. The World of Warcraft game term is multiple times more popular than just Warcraft and such.

 

[Redcrayon]

https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&q=%2Fm%2F021dvx,Warhammer

I'm not sure how accurate that is. It depends on the term you use. The World of Warcraft game term is multiple times more popular than just Warcraft and such.

Click to shrink...

I'd be interested to see where '40K' is compared to 'warhammer' too.

 

[Elfgore]

Biggest fanbase? No idea. I feel like Warhammer has more major fans while Warcraft probably has more casual fans. I'd say if we're just talking knowledge of the brand though, Warcraft.

 

[Evolution of Metal]

To be fair you can do the same with Warhammer. Plenty of people only play BloodBowl (tabletop or the computer games), or Total War, or Space Hulk or Underworlds without ever looking at the tabletop wargames like AoS or 40K. There's also a ton of people who only read the novels, or only collect and paint the kits. It's all connected but there's definitely hobbyists on the periphery.

Click to shrink...

I think the volume of the players who would just play Warhammer computer games is a minority compared to the WoW/HS userbase.

Ok, Total Warhammer is good and kind of the exception, while the rest Warhammer games are kind of ripoffs and remakes of the other, dare I say better, games. To go into those games, you have to be at least somehow interested in WH, unlike HS/WOW which are pretty much the leaders (still) in MMO and Card video games. Total Warhammer is kind of the leader in this very specific genre, but it still doesn't get the numbers WoW/HS have.

I can look up Blood Bowl PC game on Steam, and it has 680 in the sequal and 35 in the first game. That is like 700 people...

So I will stand by my point that Warcraft (WOW + HS) has much more users, but Warhammer has more fans who would delve into multiple mediums (toys, table games, computer games, books), the average Warhammer fan must have much higher engagement with the IP than the average WoW/HS player.

But I don't have data, just the intuition that Blizzard managed to become popular with casual users, while Warhammer kind of remains the ecosystem of its own and many people either engage to the high degree, or ignore it.

 

[Redcrayon]

Biggest fanbase? No idea. I feel like Warhammer has more major fans while Warcraft probably has more casual fans. I'd say if we're just talking knowledge of the brand though, Warcraft.

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Yeah, I'd say general public awareness, Warcraft (outside of the U.K.), as it's pervasive beyond its niche- it's symbolic of MMOs in general. Same goes for on a computer games forum, Warcraft is way more popular on Era for example for the obvious reasons that the key Warhammer IP isn't based around computer games. 'Fanbases' is way harder to gauge though as Warhammer's an overarching brand for pretty much everything GW does or is involved with, from the kits to games and books, comics, animation, everything.

 

[Redcrayon]

I think the volume of the players who would just play Warhammer computer games is a minority compared to the WoW/HS userbase.

Ok, Total Warhammer is good and kind of the exception, while the rest Warhammer games are kind of ripoffs and remakes of the other, dare I say better, games. To go into those games, you have to be at least somehow interested in WH, unlike HS/WOW which are pretty much the leaders (still) in MMO and Card video games. Total Warhammer is kind of the leader in this very specific genre, but it still doesn't get the numbers WoW/HS have.

I can look up Blood Bowl PC game on Steam, and it has 680 in the sequal and 35 in the first game. That is like 700 people...

So I will stand by my point that Warcraft (WOW + HS) has much more users, but Warhammer has more fans who would delve into multiple mediums (toys, table games, computer games, books), the average Warhammer fan must have much higher engagement with the IP than the average WoW/HS player.

But I don't have data, just the intuition that Blizzard managed to become popular with casual users, while Warhammer kind of remains the ecosystem of its own and many people either engage to the high degree, or ignore it.

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Oh absolutely- Warhammer computer games are tiny compared to Warcraft (and I agree, often quite poor too, with the exception of Total War) . I only meant that there's people on the peripheral even in the other aspects of the hobby- I only read the books for years, for example, and a friend of mine only plays the more standalone board games like Blood Bowl and Underworlds. Total War III will be interesting as it seems to be in development in tandem with The Old World, their next major tabletop game, with concept art informing both.

 

[Evolution of Metal]

You can probably assign quite a bit of blame to Warhammer 40k computer games, where every "big" release of theirs in the last 10 years kind of failed to build the audience. Dawn of War 3, their MMO, Space Hulk. I know they had more games, but those are much smaller and quite specific.

Total Warhammer, and Vermintide to some degree, are the only successful adaptations that appeal to the people outside of the already existing fanbase.

 

[Redcrayon]

You can probably assign quite a bit of blame to Warhammer 40k computer games, where every "big" release of theirs in the last 10 years kind of failed to build the audience. Dawn of War 3, their MMO, Space Hulk. I know they had more games, but those are much smaller and quite specific.

Total Warhammer, and Vermintide to some degree, are the only successful adaptations that appeal to the people outside of the already existing fanbase.

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Yeah, Space Marine was the same. A fairly faithful and reasonable adaption into one of the most popular genres at the time, and it still didn't take off.

 

[werezompire]

Warcraft got a movie that had a box office of almost half a billion dollars (most of that outside the US). Warhammer doesn't have a theatrical movie.

 

[ImpendingFoil]

I would say in recent years Warhammer as the zeitgeist of WoW has certainly died down.

Warhammer is just way more expansive in markets outside of the video games we tend to talk about on this forum. The property propels a worldwide chain of retail stores, numerous large events and tournaments around the globe, a ton of mobile games, currently a comic from Marvel, and tends to have a large selection of books in every major bookstore. Not only that but there still appears to be some kind of tv development with Amazon.

 

[ImpendingFoil]

EDIT: accidental double post.

 

[julia crawford]

Do people care for Warcraft lore?

On the other hand every Warhammer fan i've seen probably weeps in prayer for their sins committed against the God Emperor every night and in their shame they wail and beg for release from this mortal coil.

 

[garion333]

Worldwide for the past 16+ years is interesting: https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&q=Warhammer,Warcraft

 

[Claire Delune]

Are we limiting Warhammer to Warhammer Fantasy, or including Warhammer 40K lumped in? Because practically *everything* WH-related I see is for 40K, Fantasy doesn't even seem to be in the same zipcode of popularity in my admittedly limited experience, and I could see WoW taking the crown in that matchup.

 

[Raftina]

It depends on how you count Warcraft fans. For example, Hearthstone has about 100 million registered users (including inactive ones) and 250,000-300,000 concurrent daily users. But Hearthstone does not have the Warcraft brand, and it's dubious how many of those players would be interested in other Warcraft goods.

As for which is bigger, take a look at the Games Workshop revenue by region, according to its 2019 annual report

Spoiler: Games Workshop revenue

We don't know how revenue is divided between UK and continental Europe for trade, but we do for retail. About 60% of the total retail revenue comes from just the UK and North America. The Anglosphere accounts for over 70% of the retail revenue. And I suspect these are fairly close for total revenue as well. Meanwhile, Asia accounts for 3% of the total revenue. It's basically nonexistent in Asia.

Compare this to Activision Blizzard's annual report

Spoiler: Activision Blizzard annual report

It breaks out revenue by division, so we know what Blizzard makes. That's pretty much the Hearthstone and WoW revenue. About 25% of the revenue comes from Asia.

Basically, we are comparing the size of two populations, one of which basically does not exist in a region of the world that accounts for 40% of the world population. It's hard for me to imagine that Warhammer is competitive in fanbase size.