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When was the last time there was a good president in USA?
- Thread starter fireflame
- Start date
I was under the impression Lyndon B Johnson was a good president, probably better than Obama, but I see very few mentions in here
There never really was. America has been the villain on a global scale and local scale since even before its founding. Presidents by and large don't disrupt that trajectory, but they do make it worse too often.
I don't know what thread you just read where there were a ton of mentions of LBJ. It's like:
Obama
*Huge gap*
FDR
*Small gap*
Carter
Lincoln
*Small gap*
Bunch of nearly one-offs including LBJ
I don't deny America has had massive flaws and genuine evil practices since its founding and with its various presidents - what I dislike is the characterisation is that the entire nation and every president in it is cartoonishly evil that has made no positive contributions to the world. Obama included.
Lincoln wanted to repatriate slaves to Liberia, which he did for quite a bunch.
Didn't Teddy annex all those Spanish territories? I forget.
And FDR put Americans into concentration camps just because they were of Japanese descent. (Mackenzie King in Canada did this too.)
I like FDR too but none of these guys are clean.
It's more that the negatives outweigh the positives. Like I'm not sure the positives Obama did actually outweigh the negatives. In terms of foreign policy he was pretty terrible and responsible for the destabilization of multiple countries, the deaths of thousands from drone strikes and millions from wars conducted by or supported materially by the US. The Iran deal was generally good (but didn't last) and the Paris Climate Accords were also generally good (also didn't last)...but those don't outweigh the mass amount of death and destruction. And he did not HAVE to embark on this campaign of mass drone strikes.
Domestically, he achieved the ACA, which was better than the previous status quo but not really enough to meaningfully address the problem of healthcare in this country. He deported millions of immigrants. He vastly expanded the surveillance state, violated the civil liberties of millions of Americans, then demonized the whistleblower who revealed this to the public. He also allowed for the blatant islamaphobia in our country, law enforcement, and intelligence communities to continue unabated and with little challenge. He did little to meaningfully address gun control, criminal justice reform, etc. He campaigned as this progressive force for change and delivered almost none of that promised change.
I think that he is a decent, good person, about as decent as anyone can be. And I think wielding the power of the office of president is extremely difficult. But he didn't actually accomplish all that much beyond the ACA that actually progressed society forward or solved long-standing issues in our country...and the progressive movement that has been rekindled in this country in the last few years has arisen largely in response to his failures to deliver substantive, meaningful societal change.
Obama was a good man who did not have the right resources at his beck and call to fulfil his ambitions, I think this aspect has influenced how you view him. I'm not saying your wrong about the various criticisms you've bought up, there is a lot of meat there which were terrible and shouldn't have occurred. What this fails to address is that when he did try to overturn the status quo for the good too many times he was overruled by forces outside his control. This is where congress really fucks him over. Many of the things that didn't last are on Trumps' head and, like I said, congress. He had to rely on executive orders far too much since the usual channels were denied to him to make then stick. Not even Bill Clinton dealt with opposition like Obama did and the voters gladly handed them the power to do that.
ACA was made strictly because that was the best the Democrats could accomplish at that moment, what you're asking for wasn't possible when he was president and it's gotten worse since. They thought what they had there was worth it then staying wth the status quo, and I think they made the right decision. Obama needed politicians like Lieberman to get that far and he wasn't interested in what you're wanting for health care - it's why the Democrats turned on him and he got exiled from the party.
With immigrants he did deport millions of people, he did this with those who crossed illegally - America's not a boundary less state where everyone can come in. No country in the world does that to my knowledge. What he did do reform the system so it was laser focused on the real criminals and made opportunities for those who crossed over illegally but who were law abiding had viable options to become citizens, like DACA and DREAM Act. Would I have preferred he shut down ICE? Yeah, but I don't think that was available to Obama since he'd need congress approval.
America has endless issues which require fixing, like gun control and the intelligence communities (which people step on tip toes around for a reason - nobody wants to anger spies for obvious reasons), which again could have been done more about had he had the resources available from congress. This is why a lot of his goals got derailed, and what people missed about his message when he got elected. He needed all of us to move congress and we failed him routinely with this task.
Obama did promise change, but it was change on a scale he wasn't able to attain and the American people didn't truly want to solve by backing him with the power to do it. Like all politicians he is limited by what congress gives him, that's not all on him. That's on all of us. This is not a problem a Great Man can solve by himself, it requires all of us to do it - that was his message that went over peoples heads.
What's disappointing is how much many of the left who lived during Obama's terms forgot how strong the opposition he had and that the man couldn't get a condiment on a hotdog without getting shat on as though he killed someone by the right wing. Instead his actions are looked at as though he did everything by his own choice and he liked every single second of it. Was he a flawed president and his actions in places like the Middle East deserve scrutiny? Yes. That's what it's like being POTUS, the job comes with unpleasant realities and not everyone has answers to keeping their hands clean.
Obama did fight back against Islamophobia.
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LBJ was an impressive president for civil rights.
But his Vietnam-strategy was bad and killed thousands of people.
But his Vietnam-strategy was bad and killed thousands of people.
"The" villain is a bit of hyperbole.
American imperialism isn't not good, but to single out the US given other shit that's clearly worse is not really a fair characterization.
Objectively? None. You'll find every US President did something bad. FDR, for example, did a lot of good for this country but, well, Japanese internment camps has been a big shame in this country's history. There's just different levels of horrible. Trump being the worst but Reagan and Andrew Jackson being other horrible ones. You just have to accept people aren't saints and made mistakes. I still think Obama was one of our better ones despite his mistakes.
What a weird statement.
I mean, use your imagination, put Trump just after Bush. Isn't he still the stupidest motherfucker on earth?
Killing isn't a helpful measure in itself, sometimes it's required and every president has a military and police who will kill people good and bad. Let's take Franklin Delano Roosevelt, the US president during WW II. It could be argued he committed war crimes for Dresden but should America have stayed isolationist during that time period? I don't think so.
Good thing I don't reserve my criticisms just for America. My comment comes more from a place of "You know all that bad stuff that all those bad places do? We do it too, because we are the baddies (too)."
They'd better not fucking Reagan him. I don't know if I'll be able to handle a future where people pretend he was one of the greats.
I doubt it happens with Trump. But you should already be pissed that it's already basically happened to Dubya. If Trump admin goes down in flames, expect Dubya to get even more shine put on him, and most likely aided heavily by Democrats in an attempt to restore "order" and make sure the status quo doesn't crumble in Trump's wake.
Dubya has already been rehabilitated in the media which is impressive considering he's a legit war criminal and his lies led to the deaths of millions and a forever conflict until climate change makes it meaningless. So all he needs to get Reagonized is that "well his policies were actually great and it was society and angry Dems and the godless that failed him" push.
Great, now you've reminded me of another terrible thing Obama did. Forgiving the sins of the previous administration was a horrific precedent to push.
It's not a new thing, just remember whenever a powerful person gets forgiven for his crimes, even Jefferson Davis, president of the confederacy only did a few years in captivity and then lived a free and peaceful life after doing his part in instigating the American civil war.
People actually mentioning Obama?
Lol..people love their terrorist presidents with smiles I guess.
There is no good president, certainly not in the last century at least.
Lol..people love their terrorist presidents with smiles I guess.
There is no good president, certainly not in the last century at least.
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Well if you ignore all the bad stuff he's actually good. It's called nuance you see!
Who is BF? If you're talking about Benjamin Franklin, he was never President. :P
Worst thing is if you say obama is a murderer, people assume you support trump, but both are genociders.
If that's the first thoughts they have when someone calls Obama what he is, then they can sincerely fuck off.
They're privileged enough to believe he's good. People just love rehabilitating their presidents and excusing their behaviour abroad.
Because the rest of the world might as well be political playthings only to be used when convenient.
Fuck Obama.
Lmao, right? This is literally how they excuse his crimes.
Maybe its time America abolished the Presidency and moved to a more democratic proportionally represented parliament system? Stop giving so much power to a single person and encouraging a two party behaviour?
Cause it sounds in the end there is not much difference between a US President and a European pre-WW1 monarchy except the election bit.
Cause it sounds in the end there is not much difference between a US President and a European pre-WW1 monarchy except the election bit.
Bill Clinton, my fat digits and small keyboard. BC is what I meant to type.
2032 when i run and win
i will outlaw, Ubisoft, Deep Dish pizza, Valve and any viral internet dance that persist longer than 3 months
Bill is a weird one. He was president during arguably the greatest economic growth period in America history, but also had a vindictive Republican Congress that forced him to the right which is rough because his default was the center. Obama did a much better job handling his vindictive Republican Congress, though to be fair we still don't have nearly as much time to see what his legacy is.
nafta, don't ask/don't tell, and the jail reform bill hurt a lot of people due to horrible foresight, he passed legislation that contributed directly to the 2008 housing crash and of course the Monica Lewinsky affair.
It's been 20 years since he was president and it's hard to decide if his legacy of bad compromises with Congress is a product of the time period he was the President of or if the those bad compromises was a product of his inability to commit.
The 90's has better economic growth than under FDR? Also obama just let Congress throw out the public option for Obamacare and let Congress withhold a Supreme Court seat without a fight. Obama didn't have much control over Congress
There is a certain level of privilege, disposition and ass kissing required to even become President so chances are they will always be narcissists and sociopaths lol. That said some are obviously worse than others. Obama was pretty reasonable and one of the better ones imo but overall most of them are terrible people.
The president is forced to choose the least harmful choice more frequently than the usual person. Obama did a good job of attempting to be logical and minimize harm given that he was one person.
About that...
I'd sure like to hear your reasoning as to why. Show your work.
There has been quite a few good Presidents imo.
The last great one though was probably Teddy Roosevelt, we needed to keep breaking up monopolies, if you look over to the USSR around the same time, even Lenin realised you didn't really need to go full on communist in the end, just keep the big corps in check, his new economy policy was solid, thanks Stalin for fucking it up & creating a massive red scare, so another Roosevelt appearing would just be called a "commie"
The last great one though was probably Teddy Roosevelt, we needed to keep breaking up monopolies, if you look over to the USSR around the same time, even Lenin realised you didn't really need to go full on communist in the end, just keep the big corps in check, his new economy policy was solid, thanks Stalin for fucking it up & creating a massive red scare, so another Roosevelt appearing would just be called a "commie"
Obama. I've lived through five presidents, I think (without Googling), and he was the most effective, the most intelligent, and most graceful.
However, it's not without reservations. I really disliked how milquetoast he was at times (like not using using a recess to appoint Merrick Garland when McConnell stone walled him) or how willing he was to escalate surveillance of American citizens and drone bombing in other countries (though I admit I know less than zero percent what he knew about foreign and domestic threats, I just don't like the ideas of it).
However, it's not without reservations. I really disliked how milquetoast he was at times (like not using using a recess to appoint Merrick Garland when McConnell stone walled him) or how willing he was to escalate surveillance of American citizens and drone bombing in other countries (though I admit I know less than zero percent what he knew about foreign and domestic threats, I just don't like the ideas of it).