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Aaronrules380

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
22,473
Saying "I'm not broken" does not mean there were no adverse effects on you from being spanked. You don't have to begrudge your parents, but clearly you learned better than to hit your own children. My mother was beaten regularly by her father, she did not continue that behavior (only spanked me once in my entire life and immediately regretted it). I'm not gonna say my mom is 'broken' from the abuse but she certainly learned from it and was affected by it (and has a horrible relationship with her parents because they are shit parents).

Not to mention that if say, half of the people who got treated like this as kids managed to turn out ok despite this and the other half were demonstrably worse off because of it, it's still a barbaric practice that could ruin your kids life for the sake of literally no actual benefit whatsoever
 

Deleted member 4274

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,435
OK, I never ever make threads, but I got to thinking about this because of a recent conversation at a family reunion, and my god, it just frustrates me to no end. So folks're all gathered around a table a little bit before everyone starts dipping, and I'm listening in on conversations from older relatives about their childhood stories, and that inevitably turns into a conversation about experiences with raising their own kids.

A super distant relative I've probably only seen once in my life (who's also white, if that matters?) talks about a moment she had with her son asking for something really expensive, and getting pouty when denied it. Soooo, she beats him for that, and then he (her son) tells her that the teachers at his school say you can't beat your kids, or it's abuse. Her response to that? "I beat him even harder!" Everyone at the table is just whooping and hollering like "YEAH, THAT'S HOW YOU DO IT!" and claiming that it's ridiculous that beating your kids is considered abuse "these days". And I'm just in the background like... what the fuck, man. Why are we like this? Why are we all literally standing around and applauding child abuse? Why can't we see it as child abuse?

As someone who was raised by a mother who beat them as the soul form of punishment for any little thing they did wrong, this infuriates me. I did NOT "turn out just fine" through how I was raised. Personally, I definitely don't feel like a properly functioning adult because of the punishments. Now I just fear failure to an unhealthy degree, resent my mother and feel barely an iota of actual love towards her (though to be fair, she was also pretty emotionally detached as well and lacked compassion).

But forreal. What is it that makes us behave this way with our kids? Obviously I don't think this is black people/culture exclusive, but it feels soooo much more central to traditional black parenting methods, and I really can't stand it.
Nigga, I don't know. Just glad my mom wasn't on that shit. Gramma, though... Even though she only beat me once and I kinda "deserve" that shit. Said "fuck you" to my grandma when I just turned 6 when i didnt want to leave somewhere. When she picked me up I kicked her. When I got to her house she got the thinnest belt she could find and beat the breaks off me. Honestly, it was like 10 or 12 strikes, but that shit stuck with me.
 

Westbahnhof

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
10,108
Austria
???

This isn't a black thing. What's with Era weirdly ascribing traits shared by people of all demographics to solely/predominantly black people?
I wouldn't have thought so, but the statistics posted above show that there's at least a significantly higher rate of approval of the practice, which I think OP was going for
 

Aaronrules380

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
22,473
Striking a child isn't discipline, it's just being an abusive asshole that does nothing but make your kids afraid of you. There are so many other ways to correct bad behavior that don't involve child abuse.
It's literally teaching by example that you can get other people to obey you through the use of violence
 

Deleted member 11413

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
22,961
Not to mention that if say, half of the people who got treated like this as kids managed to turn out ok despite this and the other half were demonstrably worse off because of it, it's still a barbaric practice that could ruin your kids life for the sake of literally no actual benefit whatsoever
Absolutely, if there are no positive outcomes and many people experience negative outcomes then that means the practice is bad and should stop.
 

Mammoth Jones

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,326
New York
I'm white and grew up in the South and my parents had this sentiment as well. I think its not just a "black" thing but a regional thing. I was hit with a belt repeatedly by my stepmother because I didn't want to eat the green beans on my plate.

I just tell my daughter "no bedtime story then" and suddenly she can eat her veggies.
 

Bob Beat

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,916
I've had the revelation that Black people, have had to beat their kids, historically. If their kids got out of line or violated an underwritten rule (walk on the side walk, whistle at a white lady), not only would the kids be in danger but the entire family. Emmitt Till did nothing wrong but they dragged him out of the house.

I feel the same urge to discipline my kids or they might get on trouble. And the pressure is still there. Our kids are locked up more often, get harsher sentences.

So, unless we deal with systemic racism and oppression, corporal punishment was a survival skill.
 

penguindrum

Member
Feb 10, 2019
772
Also wtf at all the people in here going "it ain't a black thing" when the thread was made by a black person, black people in the thread are telling you it is, and all the data shows it's more prevalent among black families. Obviously there are plenty of influences for that (more likely to be in poverty, more likely to be conservative/highly religious) so to say it's inherent to someone's race would be some racist shit, but to acknowledge the reality that it is more prevalent among black families is not racist.

You're right. I didn't wanna outright agree that it's a black thing, because I don't personally have any data to back it up, but my experiences living in an all black neighborhood, having a majority black family, going to an all black elementary school, majority black middle school, majority black high school, and majority black HBCU back it up 100%.

Spanking/beating/whooping may also be prevalent in other cultures, but I think those probably have their own reasons, which may or may not intersect with why it's prevalent in the black community. However the reasons are not all encompassing and easily summarizable into one group (boomers, first generation americans, poverty, christianity, etc). It's probably more similar to a venn diagram, and I know that'd be a wildly simplistic model as well.
 

Unknownlight

One Winged Slayer
Member
Nov 2, 2017
10,573

Nome

Designer / Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,312
NYC
I come from a latin background and this sentiment comes up a lot, and from my experience a lot of it is hyperbole. It's played for dramatic effect like "I used to walk 500 feet in the snow when I was your age." Most of the time when I ask "Are you serious?" the response is "Nah, I'm just exaggerating." Not to say there aren't real instances of abuse, but exaggerating about it is a common trope in latin communities.
My dad used to tell me he walked 60km to go to school. I called him out on his BS. Then I visited his village in China and it turned out he wasn't kidding 😓
 

The Albatross

Member
Oct 25, 2017
39,041
This was very common in the reactions to the Adrian Peterson child abuse issue a few years ago. Adrian Peterson, at the time a star running back in the NFL, was either charges or investigated or something for cutting a switch and whooping his young son. While media widely condemned him, the response from the public was split, with a sort of "that's how you raise kids" attitude and a "that's too far" or "That's child abuse."
 

Big Boss

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,468
User banned (2 weeks): defending violence against children and animals over multiple posts in the thread
I don't know why ppl are quoting me with the dog example, I know ppl who pop their puppies/dogs with news papers to discipline them.

That's just how some ppl chose to discipline their dogs.
 

Deleted member 18944

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
6,944
There's a difference between disciplining your kids and abusing them. I can't tell you the amount of times I've seen children just walk all over their parents.

What a horse shit post that is often used as a means to excuse abuse.

Points out how parent is being unfair and hypocritical, but doesn't have the mental knowledge on how to explain their emotions without throwing a fit
*gets their ass beat for "walking all over their parents"*
Parent: its discipline!!!!!


Fuck off.
 

Deleted member 11413

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
22,961
I've had the revelation that Black people, have had to beat their kids, historically. If their kids got out of line or violated an underwritten rule (walk on the side walk, whistle at a white lady), not only would the kids be in danger but the entire family. Emmitt Till did nothing wrong but they dragged him out of the house.

I feel the same urge to discipline my kids or they might get on trouble. And the pressure is still there. Our kids are locked up more often, get harsher sentences.

So, unless we deal with systemic racism and oppression, corporal punishment was a survival skill.
Beating your kids does not protect them. It makes them more likely to be locked up. This logic is basically "the world will abuse my kid so I also need to abuse my kid". It's fucked.
 

True Underdog

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
745
Seattle, WA
Hispanic here. How often I got my ass beat usually came down to how bad a mood my old man was in at any given time. I've literally got my ass (and back, and legs) beat for spilling milk sometime when I was in elementary school.

And he'd tell folks that he was raising us (my sister and I) to respect him and to make sure we didn't "turn out bad."

I tried confronting him about it when I got into my 20s. He said it wasn't that bad and that I'm making a big deal over nothing.

I'm in my 30s now and I don't talk to him anymore.

Edit: sorry for rambling, just mostly wanted to point out that this isn't just something a single group of folks does.
 

ChrisD

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,612
This is also how country hick white people are, from my experience at family gatherings.

E: I just realized this could be read the wrong way and I wanna clarify that I swear it's not meant to be. I was going to just say white people here in Texas, but I added the 'country hick' bit since that's all the extended family is, and when I can title them as such I will.
 

Zeta Ori

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,102
NY
The way it was explained to me by my own family is it's something that has unfortunately stuck around from slavery times. Slaves would beat their kids so that they would listen in circumstances where being a hard headed child could get you sold, beaten, or far worse, killed.

Keep in mind this is not excusing it at all, that shit is unacceptable.
 

Serif

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
3,794
Unfortunately it's so ingrained across cultures and generations that people will try to wring out some reason why hitting children is necessary.

I acknowledge that this kind of practice manifests from structural violence and results from stress and socioeconomic conditions. A stressed out parent at their wit's end might end up smacking their kid, that doesn't mean it's a good thing or that it benefits the child.

As a first-generation Desi immigrant kid growing up in the city - the hitting doesn't help. I've felt more regret over my bad behavior when I was yelled at or given the cold shoulder. The physical abuse just made me feel resentful, and has complicated my relationship with my parents. I just got better at hiding bad behavior or manufacturing excuses.

You know what? If you think you ended up fine after being hit by your parents or guardians, whatever. But try and put an end to the cycle now as you're raising your own kids and see what happens. Just try. With all the resources we have available nowadays, see if there's a better way.
 

Aaronrules380

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
22,473
What a horse shit post that is often used as a means to excuse abuse.

Points out how parent is being unfair and hypocritical, but doesn't have the mental knowledge on how to explain their emotions without throwing a fit
*gets their ass beat for "walking all over their parents"*
Parent: its discipline!!!!!


Fuck off.
Yeah, it's kind of hilarious in a really dark way when you realize that some parents think the way to teach their kid hitting other children is wrong is to hit them, because surely using violence to stop unwanted behavior won't teach them that this is a tactic they can use themselves
 

Deleted member 11413

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
22,961
You're right. I didn't wanna outright agree that it's a black thing, because I don't personally have any data to back it up, but my experiences living in an all black neighborhood, having a majority black family, going to an all black elementary school, majority black middle school, majority black high school, and majority black HBCU back it up 100%.

Spanking/beating/whooping may also be prevalent in other cultures, but I think those probably have their own reasons, which may or may not intersect with why it's prevalent in the black community. However the reasons are not all encompassing and easily summarizable into one group (boomers, first generation americans, poverty, christianity, etc). It's probably more similar to a venn diagram, and I know that'd be a wildly simplistic model as well.
There is definitely intersection there, and as black people tend to get the worst of racism/poverty/lack of opportunity here in the US, it makes sense that those factors would be the most visible in the black community, while also being visible in other communities (hispanic, immigrant, poor white). Systemically it's just the cycle of abuse perpetuating itself
 

Wamb0wneD

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
18,735
Desi (south Asian) parents do it all the time. This bit is actually a very accurate summary:


The entire time I was like
2c1.gif
 

JJDubz

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
1,223
I grew up in the white-as-fuck rural Midwest and parents hitting kids seemed like a 50/50 there. Can't speak to black families specifically, but it wouldn't surprise me if it is tied more to greater socioeconomic factors--like income, education, etc. Just so happens (by design) that a disproportional amount of black families are victims of the American economy.

Could be tradition overpowering actual utility, too, since hitting a kid is about as negative as negative reinforcement can get.
 

Aaronrules380

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
22,473
I don't know if it's actually a bad thing to spank your kids every one in a while. I remember when my mom tried when I was like 12 and I laughed it off. What if taking away privileges, time outs, providing explanations, positive reinforcement, and etc aren't working?
Then you try and find another means of non violent discipline instead of using a tactic that is proven not to work and has major negative consequences
 

Calamari41

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,099
I just tell my daughter "no bedtime story then" and suddenly she can eat her veggies.

This, a thousand percent. I can get my very willful son to do almost anything if I take this strategy. Reward good behavior as it happens, and if they're being a pill, remind them that those things only happen when they're exhibiting that good behavior. "You're not going to brush your teeth? Alright, I guess that means we can't have treats anymore, since we won't be able to brush away the sugar. Oh, you want to brush your teeth after all? Very smart!"

"You're not going to clean up your toys? That's a shame, I guess that means I'll have to clean them up. And when I clean them up, I store them away in the garage because I don't want to live in a house with trucks all over the floor. Oh, there you go, thank you for cleaning up!"

I don't know if it's actually a bad thing to spank your kids every one in a while. What if taking away privileges, time outs, providing explanations, positive reinforcement, and etc aren't working?

It can take time, but all of that will work unless your child has a legit condition.
 

Deleted member 18944

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
6,944
Yeah, it's kind of hilarious in a really dark way when you realize that some parents think the way to teach their kid hitting other children is wrong is to hit them, because surely using violence to stop unwanted behavior won't teach them that this is a tactic they can use themselves

My kid is clearly going through some kind of emotional episode, what would be a good idea to stop them from disrespecting me while they deal with it?

I know, I'll try this new product called PTSD. As long as my kid cries in another room and doesn't show any type of negative sentiment or emotion towards me that I can see, there won't be any problems.

SARCASM.
 

mbpm

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,625
Not black (asian) but reflecting on being struck/verbally abused as a form of discipline is interesting to me now as a young adult.
I was definitely a wild child and did need discipline, so the hitting/etc did keep me from raising trouble. But it also taught me that the best way to proceed in life is just to obfuscate all feeling and play possum (and lie) in all situations if at all possible (and a healthy fear of footsteps lol).
Now that I'm entering true adult life, playing possum is exactly what I shouldn't be doing a lot of the time.
 

Arkanim94

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,124
My kid is clearly going through some kind of emotional episode, what would be a good idea to stop them from disrespecting me while they deal with it?

I know, I'll try this new product called PTSD. As long as my kid cries in another room and doesn't show any type of negative sentiment or emotion towards me that I can see, there won't be any problems.

SARCASM.
"why my kids lie to me all the time?"
 

Rosebud

Two Pieces
Member
Apr 16, 2018
43,601
I don't know if it's actually a bad thing to spank your kids every one in a while. I remember when my mom tried when I was like 12 and I laughed it off. What if taking away privileges, time outs, providing explanations, positive reinforcement, and etc aren't working?

So the kid probably needs a psychologist to know what's wrong. It can be many things.
 

Aurongel

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
7,065
Black people aren't a monolith and are certainly not unique in how they reprimand their children. I think certain liberal circles view it this way because black people are generally among the more religious/conservative sections of what we think of as the traditional left wing constituency. Anecdotally, most of my friends growing up from generationally impoverished working class families took a similarly creepy amount of pride in corporal punishment.
 

Aaronrules380

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
22,473
My kid is clearly going through some kind of emotional episode, what would be a good idea to stop them from disrespecting me while they deal with it?

I know, I'll try this new product called PTSD. As long as my kid cries in another room and doesn't show any type of negative sentiment or emotion towards me that I can see, there won't be any problems.

SARCASM.
Yeah. If your kid is acting up and most of your normal methods like time outs or the like aren't working, the answer isn't to beat them, its to have them see an actual professional to sort out their issues with
 

AnansiThePersona

Started a revolution but the mic was unplugged
Member
Oct 27, 2017
15,682
My dad and his contemporaries would get the dogshit beaten out of them in Nigerian elementary school. At home too. He obviously took that behavior and...applied it to his kids. Let's end the generations of abuse, y'all! ✊🏽✊🏽✊🏽
 

Byakuya769

Avenger
Oct 29, 2017
2,718
OP: "This isn't a Black only thing but I want to discuss the particulars of it in Black communities"

Era's reading comprehension: "Yeah, but this isn't exclusive to Blacks, you know?"

"But forreal. What is it that makes us behave this way with our kids? Obviously I don't think this is black people/culture exclusive, but it feels soooo much more central to traditional black parenting methods, and I really can't stand it."

Really?
 

Deleted member 18944

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
6,944
"why my kids lie to me all the time?"

"why are you acting out?"

oh idk mom, maybe cause you're fucking dumb and thought physically abusing me would just solve my problems. What's worse is that when I did act up, rather than thinking "he needs help" and "this isn't about me" you beat my ass and made it about how you felt disrepected.

Some of the posts in this thread make me fucking sick.

Imagine going through some emotional shit and your boss beating the fuck out of you. You would literally NEVER think "oh he's doing this to help me build character"