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So look away.
They'll whisper you your fate.
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"What's the point of climbing Everest?" AKA "why do anything?"
- Thread starter Ignis
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Your teeth are gone when you look away.
So look away.
They'll whisper you your fate.
It's still ultimately self-serving, and deserves to be shamed considering everything else.
There's responsible hiking and getting a workout and seeing pretty places. And then there's climbing Mount Everest. A mountain full of rotting frozen human carcasses and lumps of shit
Wait till we successfully conquer Mars. Climbing Olympus Mons will be the next big thing to conquer.
While Olympus Mons is massive, its' slope is so gentle you could literally stroll up it given enough time.
The philosophical side to this is easy, imo: people climb it because they choose to, it's not mutually exclusive with anything else (good or bad;.it should go without saying that these endeavours should be undertaken in as responsible a manner as possible), and mountains are beautiful, terrible things that are absolutely worth experiencing, if that's your bag. It being the highest might seem relatively unimportant to some, but it will be to others, and the important bit is the act of climbing and descending and reductive logic can be applied to the act of climbing any mountain, and that doesn't wash with me.
The particulars of Everest at the moment might necessitate asking 'is this a good idea right now, in this way?' rather than 'what's the point?'. If the answer is 'we shouldn't climb this because of X and Y' it doesn't then mean these things are entirely pointless.
The particulars of Everest at the moment might necessitate asking 'is this a good idea right now, in this way?' rather than 'what's the point?'. If the answer is 'we shouldn't climb this because of X and Y' it doesn't then mean these things are entirely pointless.
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I think the question is: if you are going to do something, why does it have to be Everest? There are plenty of things you can do that are fun and challenging, so why go for a thing that's dangerous?
When my ex was in a hospital for an operation, one of his roommates was a young guy whose right hand was a travesty. He belonged to a group of young dudes who did dangerous car stunts for kicks, and this kid had crashed his car and went through the windshield that ripped his hand to shreds. He'd been through several operations to piece his hand together. He nearly died on that accident. I'm sure the car stunts took some skills and courage to do, and I'm sure it was totally a thrill. If you can't risk your life doing dumb stuff for kicks, why do anything at all, right?
I agree with the Op.
Most of the people on this forum play video games, what's the point of that?
You are creating a lot of plastic waste and electrical consumption.
Most of the people on this forum play video games, what's the point of that?
You are creating a lot of plastic waste and electrical consumption.
Do you have any idea how many people die riding horses, swimming, playing football, riding a bike etc. Climbing is very very safe in comparison.
I don't understand the "endangering the sherpa mountain guides!" point. That is literally their job that they take voluntarily in exchange for compensation. It is a risky job like other jobs, but let's not insult them by saying they are stupid to take that business. They know the dangers they face better than you.
OP
OP
You both summed up my thoughts pretty well. Good posts.
Yeah, I thought it was kind of weird too. I read a bunch of books about climbing Everest when I was a kid and while I have zero desire at all to climb it myself (Seems quite cold and I don't like dying) if climbing that big ass rock is your thing, then who am I to tell someone not to. I would prefer if people wouldn't litter, and what's happening to the Sherpa's isn't chill, but if someone really likes climbing, I'm not going to look down on them for wanting to climb fucking Everest.
The other real weird thing I've noticed is people trying to downplay this as a bunch of rich people. Everest is going to be real fucking hard to climb no matter how much money you throw at it.
The other real weird thing I've noticed is people trying to downplay this as a bunch of rich people. Everest is going to be real fucking hard to climb no matter how much money you throw at it.
The highest mountain I went up was Fuji and I can see why people want to climb Everest, but as it becomes more and more a trashed, "overrun" tourist attraction it loses its appeal.
I absolutely love mountains and am about to embark on a 3 week mountain trekking trip, including some very nice mountains (Mulhacen, Etna, Mont Blanc). I have done the Everest park trek and it's a beautiful experience, with lots of high mountains and beautiful scenery, like this:
It is a magnificent experience, and high mountain trekking is one of my favourite activities.
I wouldn't do Everest because:
-The technical routes are extremely hard and completely unachievable by me.
-The "tourist" way is still extremely demanding physically (no, it's not an easy task even if you've got money), expensive, and painful. I see mountain trekking as a pleasure, and even if there's always hard work and some pain associated, it really pays off. Everest is just pain :|
It is a magnificent experience, and high mountain trekking is one of my favourite activities.
I wouldn't do Everest because:
-The technical routes are extremely hard and completely unachievable by me.
-The "tourist" way is still extremely demanding physically (no, it's not an easy task even if you've got money), expensive, and painful. I see mountain trekking as a pleasure, and even if there's always hard work and some pain associated, it really pays off. Everest is just pain :|
As long as they have no dependents, I have no objection to anyone trying to climb Everest as long as they have the necessary skills and experience. If you want to risk your life, that's your problem.
However, I object to the wealthy tourist climbers who really have no business being on a mountain like Everest. They're entirely reliant on others to help them make the climb, and not only risk their own lives but the lives of others. In an overcrowding situation like the one we seem to have had recently, there's even the potential for them to endanger the lives of climbers who have nothing to do with them.
However, I object to the wealthy tourist climbers who really have no business being on a mountain like Everest. They're entirely reliant on others to help them make the climb, and not only risk their own lives but the lives of others. In an overcrowding situation like the one we seem to have had recently, there's even the potential for them to endanger the lives of climbers who have nothing to do with them.
Ironically, as that guy doesn't need to breathe oxygen and is as strong as an ox, he'd have no problems on Everest. He'd need to hide in his tent during most of the daylight, though. Would be still catch fire in sunlight in an oxygen-starved environment? If so, he'd be popular as a source of warmth.
They're doing it because the alternative of not risking their lives babysitting a bunch of over-privileged cunts is probably going hungry.
I think, at the very least, if you hire a Sherpa and the Sherpa dies you should have to die with them.
A bit like how horse racing should operate.
Some people no doubt feel compelled to climb Everest; that their lives would be diminished if they didn't try. Same for those who try Marathon Des Sables.
I feel fortunate that my life is sufficiently satisfying that I don't number amongst them. Perhaps I'll feel regret for that later but it just seems a bit OCD to me like that Achievement you game 100 hours for.
Topical edit apparently there have been 2 deaths since Friday from U.K. and Ireland. 381 permits issued this year.
I feel fortunate that my life is sufficiently satisfying that I don't number amongst them. Perhaps I'll feel regret for that later but it just seems a bit OCD to me like that Achievement you game 100 hours for.
Topical edit apparently there have been 2 deaths since Friday from U.K. and Ireland. 381 permits issued this year.
You could use this argument to support any tourist industry, even sex tourism. The local economy does indeed benefit from rich assholes. How to direct those benefits should be carefully managed. I hope the Nepal government has that covered.
I'm in two minds about environmental concerns. The need for transport would bring infrastructure improvements to the foothills. The lower reaches of the peaks may suffer from habitat destruction. The high altitude zone that's littered with dead human bodies and abandoned equipment, though, I don't see as much of an environmental problem. There just isn't a lot of life up there to be harmed.
just climb some other much safer hill or mountain and enjoy the view with zero risk of freezing to death.
Climbing Everest was only a really cool thing for the first ~10 people to do it, because no/few people had done it before. Now there's a constant stream of people with mid-life crises spreading litter everywhere, making life hell for the indigenous people, putting others at risk, causing rapid environmental erosion, etc.
It used to be an accomplishment. Now it's a shallow bucket-list thing for people with more money than conscience.
It used to be an accomplishment. Now it's a shallow bucket-list thing for people with more money than conscience.
Despite the fact that climbing Everest on the "tourist trail" is still physically demanding and dangerous, it has become a cartoonish industry that exploits local peoples. Just because someone does something "hard" doesn't automatically make it noble.
Comparing a rich person marching up Everest with a guide to possibly die for them, to humanity going to the moon, is really wild and silly.
There are limitless other places in the wilderness on Earth that an adventurous person could go to test the limits of their endurance and achieve personal goals that don't involve participating in such a dumb industry.
Comparing a rich person marching up Everest with a guide to possibly die for them, to humanity going to the moon, is really wild and silly.
There are limitless other places in the wilderness on Earth that an adventurous person could go to test the limits of their endurance and achieve personal goals that don't involve participating in such a dumb industry.
If you have $50k to blow on creating "adversity" for yourself by climbing a mountain, the world doesn't need you. You're not a good, person, objectively.
Climbing Everest is not for the thrill. It's a show of power, primarily financial. Shit people doing a shit thing.
Climbing Everest is not for the thrill. It's a show of power, primarily financial. Shit people doing a shit thing.
OP
OP
LMAO.
UH, or maybe people are allowed to blow their money how they want and still be a good person? What even is this post.
Nope. Electing to spend $50k to put your life in danger, the lives of others, and leave mountains litter / your stupid dead carcass on a mountain where it will never be cleaned up makes you objectively a piece of dog shit.
Especially when that $50k could be spent feeding hundreds of children instead of engaging in a paid ego boost.
Sorry you sympathize with wealthy privileged people who have so much money they can waste it by artificially injecting "challenge" into their life because they literally don't face it anywhere else.
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You literally know nothing about these individuals who are spending that much money on the expeditions.
I'm not sympathising with anyone, but presenting you with a rational opinion without hyperbole.
Who you to say what people can and can't do and why they should do it? "Paid ego boost", "artificially injecting challenge"....Lol.
This is a great post on this subject and more people posting in the thread should read it.
Same here, lol. It gets taxing though, I wish I didn't question that so much.
I agree with everything you said. Don't forget the feces, can't forget that. Then the government has to pay people to clean up the mountain risking their lives again. A lot of these people that climb are not climbing enthusiast. They are doing it to show off on social media and their friends.
For the many and various reasons people are usually told what they can and can't do and why they should and shouldn't do it.
I think at the point you've turned Mount Everest into a shitheap, you should consider whether that should be allowed to continue.
But, yes, people with privilege like to believe they have the right to do anything.
THEY MUST BE STOPPED!
That's the problem. Rich people think they can do anything they want. I have money so I can pay these people to carry me up this mountain so I can take some selfies. Who cares about the feces and trash I leave behind. It is not in my back yard so who gives a fuck, now I want these likes.
I know that anyone with minimum $50k to blow on a climb has zero challenge in their life worth caring about. I know they aren't climbing Everest for a noble cause. I know there are thousands of ways they could use that money to directly improve the lives of others that provides far more societal and global value than a climb.
I know enough to know they're objectively selfish.
I also know you are sympathizing with them, 100%. Defending rich people you don't know who destroy a global landmark for pleasure is an act of sympathy. You feel bad that I (an average person, probably below average financially), have attacked these "defenseless" yuppies.
Nah my guy. These people are all wasteful and indulgent. There are thousands of mountains they can climb with far less environmental impact or risk of life, while still being incredibly challenging and rewarding. The difference? They won't be a part of that "elite club" for bragging rights.
It's utterly pathetic.
Actuall the expeditions aren't even the worst offender based on statements from Nepalm officials, especially $5000 will be collected as mountaineering security deposits from every expedition - also a rubbish-collection fee of $1500/person. There is also a $11000 permit fee. Nepalm is really making money with the Mount Everest + rescuee missions aren't covered at all.
The biggest offenders are the normal tourist groups because that are actually masses of people.
The biggest offenders are the normal tourist groups because that are actually masses of people.
OP
OP
The "rich people are destroying everest" thing is a whole seperate argument directed at a very specific issue (that happens to be environmental).
Unlike China who (rightfully) closed Everest to tourists to clean up the place and restructure their tourism infrastructure, Nepal has remained open and the Nepalese government is to blame here.
The average person isn't going to stop going up if the option is available to them and they have the money to make it happen. And I doubt that 100% of the climbers on Everest are rich assholes, as history has shown obviously many seasoned climbers ascend Everest regularly, which in my opinion is completely fine.
Nepal needs to do something about this, but their hands are clearly tied because of how much Everest impacts their tourism and industry. It's a huge amount, and once the Sherpas stop doing what they do best, which is going to happen in the next 10-20 years, Nepal is gonna have to either A) say goodbye to that industry/create strict limitations to ascending Everest or B) let all hell break loose and let whoever do whatever to get up that mountain.
Just reading that last page, I'm not getting that impression. I think you have some own problems to fix.
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