Whatever happened to new Sonic games, anyway

Phediuk · Sep 23, 2021

There was at least 1 new Sonic game a year from 1991-2017, and in most years, multiple games.

The last four years, though, the series' output has fallen off a cliff. A couple of re-releases, one racing game, and that's it. Not even any smaller games. What happened?

Larrikin · Sep 23, 2021

Phediuk said:
There was at least 1 new Sonic game a year from 1991-2017, and in most years, multiple games.

The last four years, though, the series' output has fallen off a cliff. A couple of re-releases, one racing game, and that's it. What happened?

They're actually giving them time to make a good game and seeing if it will pay off compared to forcing them to release broken shit constantly?

Keiriks · Sep 23, 2021

HD development time and costs happened. Unleashed broke the bank and since then the series has been on very unsure footing in regards to creativity and scale.

Weiss · Sep 23, 2021

Games take more time to make, like every Sonic game since Generations except for Mania has gotten raked, and they're moving on from Boost so there's probably work going into redoing the formula.

Kalor · Sep 23, 2021

They're taking their time to try and recenter and figure out the future, rather than rushing games out like the past. Granted Sonic Colours doesn't bode well on that front but that was external at least.

Dwebble · Sep 23, 2021

They announced one a couple of months back.

Even setting that aside, taking their time to try and put out a quality product is exactly what they should be doing.

RockmanBN · Sep 23, 2021

Weiss said:
Games take more time to make, like every Sonic game since Generations except for Mania has gotten raked, and they're moving on from Boost so there's probably work going into redoing the formula.

Thought Rangers is Boost and Open World going by the leak before the announcement

Malajax · Sep 23, 2021

HD dev plus more time in the oven for major releases makes sense. The amount of smaller games have also dropped. No spinoffs, no concurrent series, no outside of Sega development efforts. I do find it strange, but I think it's part of a grander brand reset.

What you might be forgetting, OP, is that Sonic Dash/Forces/mobile shit bring in a lot of money so maybe Sega feels like that's enough to coast on in terms of "current" releases.

Weiss · Sep 23, 2021

RockmanBN said:
Thought Rangers is Boost and Open World going by the leak before the announcement

"Boost" is the formula in Unleashed/Colors/Generations/Forces. Sonic's still gonna run fast but an open world fundamentally changes things.

I'm actually intrigued by the concept. The biggest problem with the Boost games has been making all these HD art assets that are on-screen for like half a second. A large map you run back and forth through would be an effective use of resources.

Rocky Road · Sep 23, 2021

Pretty valid leaks say it will be open world, so it'll be a bit different. Seems like they're putting some hefty work into it and are taking it more seriously, since they've been playtesting it for a long time now. The complete lack of spin-offs and side games is a bit of a bummer though, especially with how little the ensemble gets to do in the main games. Mobile games have pretty much replaced the spin-offs.

Steven · Sep 23, 2021

They need to give us a Mania 2. And by "they" I mean they need to pay the same team that did Mania 1 and let them go wild with new ideas.

But it ain't happening...Mania was the only great Sonic game in decades...so of course we won't get a sequel.

DiipuSurotu · Sep 23, 2021

They must be mad that Sonic Mania was better received than any of their modern Sonic games

ElectricBlanketFire · Sep 23, 2021

There's Covid.

GamerJM · Sep 23, 2021

Larrikin said:
They're actually giving them time to make a good game and seeing if it will pay off compared to forcing them to release broken shit constantly?

They did this with Forces and it didn't really pay off

I think this is part of it but another part of it is Sonic Team probably has staff jumping ship.

Chumunga64 · Sep 23, 2021

sonic team needs time to cook up something mediocre

SNRUB · Sep 24, 2021

I think Sega sees Sonic more as a multimedia franchise first and less as a gaming brand. They could care less about how a game does critically, if it sells well then it's fine enough. Same thing with the Disney live action adaptation drivel.

SilverX · Sep 24, 2021

GamerJM said:
They did this with Forces and it didn't really pay off

I think this is part of it but another part of it is Sonic Team probably has staff jumping ship.

The game was developed during a Sega restructure, no way did Forces get 4 years of dev time. It was probably shelved for about half that time. But given the success of the Sonic film and Mania (even Forces too even though just sales wise), they will definitely be trying harder with the next game.

mute · Sep 24, 2021

Have you seen all the Sonic toys and clothes at Target?

Kyuuji · Sep 24, 2021

One day they'll stop making them and the world will be a little brighter.

Deleted member 224 · Sep 24, 2021

2 things:

1. HD development times are increasing
2. Releasing a steady stream of shitty games has caught up to the franchise. Because of this, Sega no longer sees Sonic as a AAA franchise.

Here's the e3 trailer that was used to promote Sonic Unleashed:

Nothing since has really come close to/surpassed the overall production values of that game.

skeezx · Sep 24, 2021

like a lot of moribund IPs sega probably makes more money off "sonic the hedgehog" than any individual sonic game has in some time

anecdotal but i know like 5 parents whose kids went apeshit over the movie and i doubt they know fuckall what Colors Ultimate is or whatever

MikeMyers · Sep 24, 2021

SNRUB said:
I think Sega sees Sonic more as a multimedia franchise first and less as a gaming brand.

2022 is a big year for that. New game, new movie and new Netflix show.

Quinton · Sep 24, 2021

It's like asking why we can't have a Final Fantasy release schedule akin to VII's through XI's. Industry just ain't the same anymore.

leburn98 · Sep 24, 2021

Sega: Everyone loves Sonic Mania, so let's never do that again.

Deleted member 42484 · Sep 24, 2021

Chumunga64 said:
sonic team needs time to cook up something mediocre

At this point I'll take a mediocre sonic game over the awful ones of the past decade.

Kent · Sep 24, 2021

Wasn't there also a rumor that an early version of the game focus-tested extremely poorly, too? I remember someone mentioning that to me at one point, but I've no idea what kind of source they had. I wouldn't be terribly surprised if that was the case though.

I do certainly hope they're able to stick the landing with whatever they're trying.

Deleted member 224 · Sep 24, 2021

Kent said:
Wasn't there also a rumor that an early version of the game focus-tested extremely poorly, too? I remember someone mentioning that to me at one point, but I've no idea what kind of source they had. I wouldn't be terribly surprised if that was the case though.

I do certainly hope they're able to stick the landing with whatever they're trying.

Yes. Though it's important to realize that the leaker played a very early build.

The game they played was basically a very bland open world with Generations/Unleashed style 3D stages that you could enter

Griffith · Sep 24, 2021

The last thing Sonic games need is rushed releases. The last few 3D Sonic games were bad enough as it were and I still haven't forgiven them for blowing Sonic Lost World because that was the first time a 3D Sonic game was actually controllable as a 3D platformer but you wouldn't know it because there's only a handful of stages with actual platforming and the rest of them are rehashed lazily designed ones.

Toa Axis · Sep 24, 2021

It's a combination of increased dev times/expenses, plus the fact that people are just less willing to less bite on Sonic games nowadays. The various mobile projects might also help keep revenue floating in, lessening the need for most spinoffs.

DiipuSurotu said:
They must be mad that Sonic Mania was better received than any of their modern Sonic games

This is literally something people made up. Mania wouldn't be what it was without support from Sonic Team - Iizuka and co. were the ones who pushed for Mania's devs to create brand new original zones, for example. Initially it was just remixed zones from games past.

Chumunga64 · Sep 24, 2021

DiipuSurotu said:
They must be mad that Sonic Mania was better received than any of their modern Sonic games

nope, the team that made sonic mania talked about how accommodating and helpful iizuka was

sonic team has enough shit to make fun of them, no need to make stuff up

Gacha Santa Alter · Sep 24, 2021

All I really need from Rangers is Gangsta's Paradise as the opening theme. I won't even ask for playable Manhog, even if they should totally do it.

Suzuki Yu · Sep 25, 2021

JDSpades said:
Here's the e3 trailer that was used to promote Sonic Unleashed:

Nothing since has really come close to/surpassed the overall production values of that game.

Sonic Rangers will be this game for sure if not the biggest/ most ambitious project for Sonic to date based on many factors including the leaked scope of the game, the time they've been testing/working on it and Izuka's statement about his hope for this to be the next Adventure 1 equivalent that will set the series into a new future going forward. (talking about a lot of confidence to push for this)

many people doubt Sonic Team's ability to go for something as ambitious (Open World/ RPG Design) but we are talking about a completely different team now after the merge with Skies/Valkyria devs in 2018. they have more staff than ever to work in this and more importantly the best people in the company when it comes to RPG and world crafting. they will help tremendously with something like the open world design, the various RPG elements, main plot & scenario, quests, NPCs & Dialogs etc etc.

actually I really believe part of this merger was to realize this project.

SNRUB · Sep 25, 2021

MikeMyers said:
2022 is a big year for that. New game, new movie and new Netflix show.

Sure, but there's no doubt in my mind that the game will be grade A mediocre compared to the movie and cartoon.

Why Sega insists on having Sonic Team still make such wet farts after all these years is beyond me, considering that Mania was the first time Sonic saw some real actual success since bloody 1994. Any competent company would see the problem and shift the IP to some other developer willing to make it good instead of soiling it every now and then.

fontguy · Sep 25, 2021

JDSpades said:
Here's the e3 trailer that was used to promote Sonic Unleashed:

Nothing since has really come close to/surpassed the overall production values of that game.

Imagine a world where that trailer ended 80 seconds in.

They put so much money and effort into that game, and the werehog totally dominated all discussion—and utterly devastated that game critically. I honestly believe the series would be in a much different place right now if they didn't sabotage themselves like that with their last shred of credibility.

andymcc · Sep 25, 2021

SNRUB said:
Sure, but there's no doubt in my mind that the game will be grade A mediocre compared to the movie and cartoon.

Why Sega insists on having Sonic Team still make such wet farts after all these years is beyond me, considering that Mania was the first time Sonic saw some real actual success since bloody 1994. Any competent company would see the problem and shift the IP to some other developer willing to make it good instead of soiling it every now and then.

I think people really loved Sonic Adventure for the most part when it came out. just hasn't aged well in retrospect-- 3D game design was still pretty young.

pleaseinsertdisctwo · Sep 25, 2021

I really need to not get my hopes up for 2022 Sonic. That would be dumb of me

SNRUB · Sep 25, 2021

andymcc said:
I think people really loved Sonic Adventure for the most part when it came out. just hasn't aged well in retrospect-- 3D game design was still pretty young.

Sure but I don't think it reached the levels of that of 3 & Knuckles and by that point it was just the beginning of the end for Sega.

I genuinely think the reason why Sonic Team is still working on Sonic it's just to give Takashi Iizuka some job security. Dude's the only guy left from the Genesis days so he has some seniority.

andymcc · Sep 25, 2021

SNRUB said:
Sure but I don't think it reached the levels of that of 3 & Knuckles and by that point it was just the beginning of the end for Sega.

Given the game came out in 1998, and launched in the west in 1999, that wasn't the feeling at all upon release. This reads like retrospective analysis.

Chumunga64 · Sep 25, 2021

Suzuki Yu said:
Sonic Rangers will be this game for sure if not the biggest/ most ambitious project for Sonic to date based on many factors including the leaked scope of the game, the time they've been testing/working on it and Izuka's statement about his hope for this to be the next Adventure 1 equivalent that will set the series into a new future going forward. (talking about a lot of confidence to push for this)

many people doubt Sonic Team's ability to go for something as ambitious (Open World/ RPG Design) but we are talking about a completely different team now after the merge with Skies/Valkyria devs in 2018. they have more staff than ever to work in this and more importantly the best people in the company when it comes to RPG and world crafting. they will help tremendously with something like the open world design, the various RPG elements, main plot & scenario, quests, NPCs & Dialogs etc etc.

actually I really believe part of this merger was to realize this project.

This reads like a Dutch Van Der Linde speech

jdmc13 · Sep 25, 2021

Chumunga64 said:
This reads like a Dutch Van Der Linde speech

"Trust in me, Sonic fans"

louisacommie · Sep 25, 2021

I'm sunrises they didn't set up the mania team as a permanent 2d sonic studio
With a mania successor coming out in 2021

The failure of lost world wii u and 3ds and then boom killed spinoffs on handheld

Maybe team sonic ratings failure will lead a return to Sega all stars

Probably not

Chumunga64 · Sep 25, 2021

jdmc13 said:
"Trust in me, Sonic fans"

in all honestly, I am optimistic with sonic ranger but I've been burned before

I've been an apologist for sonic for a while and then colors, generations, and all stars racing transformed came out and it looked like my dedication paid off! Not to mention a wreck it ralph appearance and a progressive advert. Sonic was back in the mainstream baby!

then lost world, boom, and forces came out, cementing sonic's place back into the shitbin and I won't make a mistake of being hyped with this blue botch anymore

404LinkNotFound · Sep 25, 2021

Chumunga64 said:
nope, the team that made sonic mania talked about how accommodating and helpful iizuka was

sonic team has enough shit to make fun of them, no need to make stuff up

This gives me the same energy as people thinking Metroid's Sakamoto hated the Prime series cuz they were well received games not made by him and it was all false
People just like to make up drama for no reason

Chumunga64 · Sep 25, 2021

404LinkNotFound said:
This gives me the same energy as people thinking Metroid's Sakamoto hated the Prime series cuz they were well received games not made by him and it was all false
People just like to make up drama for no reason

yeah, metroid's other M story would still suck even if it did reference the prime games lmao

hell, him making sure he considers the prime games let to the lamest moment in samus returns imo

we really didn't need another ridley fight shoehorned into one of the few games that didn't have ridley especially since a peaceful stroll out of the planet with the cute baby metroid by your side would make much more of an impact

Combichristoffersen · Sep 25, 2021

Writing bad stories, making up new, terrible characters and coming up with brand new bugs and broken gameplay ideas takes time.

Bitter snark aside, HD development takes time. Add to that how Sonic Team seems to try reinventing the wheel with new gameplay ideas and concepts for every game, and you get the gist of why it takes time.

Lant_War · Sep 25, 2021

GamerJM said:
They did this with Forces and it didn't really pay off

I think this is part of it but another part of it is Sonic Team probably has staff jumping ship.

Iirc from some Famitsu interview the dev timeline for forces was like 3 years for engine development and pre production and only 1 year of actual dev time.

Suzuki Yu said:
Sonic Rangers will be this game for sure if not the biggest/ most ambitious project for Sonic to date based on many factors including the leaked scope of the game, the time they've been testing/working on it and Izuka's statement about his hope for this to be the next Adventure 1 equivalent that will set the series into a new future going forward. (talking about a lot of confidence to push for this)

many people doubt Sonic Team's ability to go for something as ambitious (Open World/ RPG Design) but we are talking about a completely different team now after the merge with Skies/Valkyria devs in 2018. they have more staff than ever to work in this and more importantly the best people in the company when it comes to RPG and world crafting. they will help tremendously with something like the open world design, the various RPG elements, main plot & scenario, quests, NPCs & Dialogs etc etc.

actually I really believe part of this merger was to realize this project.

Yeah I'm excited. It could be a complete trashfire of a game but as long as it's clear it's an ambitious project I will be really happy.

Deleted member 17210 · Sep 25, 2021

andymcc said:
I think people really loved Sonic Adventure for the most part when it came out. just hasn't aged well in retrospect-- 3D game design was still pretty young.

Yeah, Sonic Adventure 2 received some backlash but the first one especially was quite well received.

GamerJM · Sep 25, 2021

Lant_War said:
Iirc from some Famitsu interview the dev timeline for forces was like 3 years for engine development and pre production and only 1 year of actual dev time.

Well presumably they're gonna have to develop a new engine again, what with people not liking Forces and there being new consoles.

pswii60 · Sep 25, 2021

Sonic Mania was utterly incredible in every way. Really gutted that Sega isn't working with CW anymore :(

It was easily the best Sonic since the 16 bit days.

WetWaffle · Sep 25, 2021

GamerJM said:
Well presumably they're gonna have to develop a new engine again, what with people not liking Forces and there being new consoles.

I don't see why they would need to develop a new engine. Bethesda has been using the same engine since 2011 and still continues to in 2022. Besides, wasn't the hedgehog engine supposed to be really good? I recall some info about it saying it could produce CGI film like quality lighting for an entire sonic stage in only about 2-3 days. The problem is the game design not the engine imo.

Whatever happened to new Sonic games, anyway

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