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What was Marvel Comics thinking about Civil War 2 (the comic, spoilers).

ItWasMeantToBe19

ItWasMeantToBe19

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
20,440
The obvious first part of the thought process is "Civil War was a popular comic and it's getting adapted into a movie... Let's make a Civil War 2"

Pretty obvious money motivation that makes sense at first.

Everything else is just... so weird though.

Captain Marvel was being pushed in the comic books, Marvel was making a Captain Marvel movie at this point in time, it's obviously time to make Captain Marvel a very good character.

Wrong, Captain Marvel randomly becomes a fascist for no reason and starts killing or imprisoning people for their pre-crime like in Minority Report (note, the pre-crime stuff isn't even that accurate).

This comes out of nowhere for Captain Marvel and Marvel Comics seemingly forgot about the series pretty quickly. But while there were characters who were more out of character (She Hulk supporting imprisoning people for pre-crime, lol), Captain Marvel was the villain and the driving force towards cartoonish authoritarianism.

Obviously Marvel just wanted to have their heroes fight for no reason, but why character assassinate a character you're trying to build up instead of picking a more random character?
 
Finaj

Finaj

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,360
The original Civil War comic had lots of character assassination to go around (Iron Man, Captain America, Reed Richards and his inter-dimensional space gulag) because Mark Millar is a hack.

If anything, Civil War II was keeping to form.

But yeah, movie Carol is so much more likable than comic Carol. At least Civil War II gave Ms. Marvel a decent arc.
 
TheMadTitan

TheMadTitan

Member
Oct 27, 2017
27,236
I knew Civil War 2 was going to be trash when Thanos, a character who tanked what amounted to be a nuke to the face, only to tank a sonic scream equal to another nuke to the face, and then go on to simultaneously beat the shit out of Hulk, Thor, and Hyperion, along with the rest of the Avengers the previous time he was on Earth, show back up looking like this.

The fuck is Thanos raiding Cable's locker for?
 

Wadatah

Member
Aug 8, 2018
372
Civil War 2 was just a profound bummer. After Hickman's God tier run he left a ton of story possibilities and they did a Civil War sequel.
 

Wadatah

Member
Aug 8, 2018
372
TheMadTitan said:
I knew Civil War 2 was going to be trash when Thanos, a character who tanked what amounted to be a nuke to the face, only to tank a sonic scream equal to another nuke to the face, and then go on to simultaneously beat the shit out of Hulk, Thor, and Hyperion, along with the rest of the Avengers the previous time he was on Earth, show back up looking like this.

The fuck is Thanos raiding Cable's locker for?
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Lol why is Dazzler even there?
 
Radeo

Radeo

Banned
Apr 26, 2019
1,305
I don't know why Marvel keep pushing Carol obsessively but she's an actual psychopath now who somehow can't do any wrong and it's jarring as hell
 
TheMadTitan

TheMadTitan

Member
Oct 27, 2017
27,236
Radeo said:
I don't know why Marvel keep pushing Carol obsessively but she's an actual psychopath now who somehow can't do any wrong and it's jarring as hell
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Nah, she's pretty cool now.

The worst part about her now is that she's an alien for no reason and she's had her powers the whole time and just didn't realize it. i mean, shit, at the very least, they could've aligned her origin to be more like her movie counterpart instead of some half Goku, half Superman thing.
 

Seeya

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
7,984
Radeo said:
I don't know why Marvel keep pushing Carol obsessively but she's an actual psychopath now who somehow can't do any wrong and it's jarring as hell
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She's a good bit better in her own comics unfortunately the actually writing for them continues to be poor. Marvel loves putting minimum effort behind Carol while still making her a thing, is unfortunate.
 

rude

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,812
Bendis lost whatever modicum of talent he had half-way through Ultimate Spider-Man is the actual answer.
 
Radeo

Radeo

Banned
Apr 26, 2019
1,305
TheMadTitan said:
Nah, she's pretty cool now.

The worst part about her now is that she's an alien for no reason and she's had her powers the whole time and just didn't realize it. i mean, shit, at the very least, they could've aligned her origin to be more like her movie counterpart instead of some half Goku, half Superman thing.
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Seeya said:
She's a good bit better in her own comics unfortunately the actually writing for them continues to be poor. Marvel loves putting minimum effort behind Carol while still making her a thing, is unfortunate.
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I haven't read her for a while to be fair, she just pops up from time to time.
 
Dalek

Dalek

Member
Oct 25, 2017
38,959
Here's the answer
gzs0y.jpg
 
TheMadTitan

TheMadTitan

Member
Oct 27, 2017
27,236
Phamit said:
Someone at Marvel let Bendis do whatever he wanted.
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I don't even think he cared, really. He was nearing the end of his contract and probably had some clause about an event or something and just shat out an arc. As far as Bendis events go, Civil War 2 was about as bad as they come, damn near outpacing Age of Ultron in some places. And I generally don't mind his writing.
 
TheChuggernaut

TheChuggernaut

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,216
Yeah, it's a weird premise. I remember describing it to a friend as "Carol watched Minority Report and thought it was a good idea."
 
KtotheRoc

KtotheRoc

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
56,653
Civil War 2 is one of the worst crossovers I have ever read.

(Beautiful art, though. David Marquez is a real talent.)
 
Frozenprince

Frozenprince

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,158
It sucked because just like the original it's a stupid contrived premise that requires characters to do patently stupid and illogical things in the construct of their own character in order to justify internal conflict that shouldn't happen.

It was hack writing when Millar did it and it's hack writing now. It's why events suck.
 
Wanderer5

Wanderer5

Prophet of Truth
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
10,984
Somewhere.
As if it wasn't enough, this was also leading into Secret Empire with Cap being Hydra and taking over the world lol.

Least War of the Realms seems better.
 
Laserdisk

Laserdisk

Banned
May 11, 2018
8,942
UK
Finaj said:
The original Civil War comic had lots of character assassination to go around (Iron Man, Captain America, Reed Richards and his inter-dimensional space gulag) because Mark Millar is a hack.

If anything, Civil War II was keeping to form.

But yeah, movie Carol is so much more likable than comic Carol. At least Civil War II gave Ms. Marvel a decent arc.
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1 and done.
Civil war made me stop buying comics altogether
 
R0b1n

R0b1n

Member
Jun 29, 2018
7,787
Radeo said:
We already know that's just going to boil down to "how many times can we kill Wally West in 1 event"
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The infinite heroes are all Wally from different times, and a speed force explosion kills all of them at the end

RestEerie said:
Pencils & inks by Rob Liefield

Donna Troy's origins reboot again!

multiverse splintered again!

Return of superboy prime!

Batman in 1960s again!
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Can't forget the introduction of Hyper-Perpetua, the ACTUAL creator of the multiverse
 
TheMadTitan

TheMadTitan

Member
Oct 27, 2017
27,236
The Silver said:
Is Heroes in Crisis that bad, I haven't kept up with it at all.
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Heroes In Crisis had me like:

Oh shit!
Oh shit, this is going to be so great when it gets to where it needs to be!
wtf, okay.
Ok, you got me curious!
Oh shit!
Wtf!
Oh shit!
Oh come the fuck on!
What the fuck is this shit!

I liked the initial pitch, I liked the premise after I found out Dan Didio fucked with Tom King's initial plan, I liked the first issue, I liked the next few issues, I maintained my optimism when parts started to drag. Hell, I even liked some things leading up to the second to last issue. The last issue just lit everything on fire and pissed in my face instead of pissing on the flames.

R0b1n said:
The infinite heroes are all Wally from different times, and a speed force explosion kills all of them at the end


Can't forget the introduction of Hyper-Perpetua, the ACTUAL creator of the multiverse
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Man, you jest, but I can't wait to find out how Perpetua links back into the Empty Hand, the Oblivion Machine, and all of the other wacky shit Grant Morrison introduced with The Multiversity and what Tomasi/Gleason introduced in the Multiplicity arc of their Superman Rebirth run.
 
Radeo

Radeo

Banned
Apr 26, 2019
1,305
I genuinely enjoyed Gnarrk quoting poetry and discussing politics while hunting nude, but that's about the only part of HiC I would recommend
 

Deleted member 442

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
2,431
Al Ewing's Ultimates provides a much better portrayal of Danvers, unfortunately it gets a bit dragged down by Civil War 2 part way through. It is definitely one of my favourite series of the past few years, it's a shame it seemingly had to be wrapped up so quickly.
 
AlexBasch

AlexBasch

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,310
So...if I really wanted to get into Marvel Comics should I follow only a couple of stories and forget the rest? Heard something about Spidey making a deal with Mephisto, him being replaced by Doctor Octopus and stuff like that being called "awful stories" and whatnot in Forums and Twitter.

Is there anything recent from Marvel getting into?
 
TheChuggernaut

TheChuggernaut

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,216
AlexBasch said:
So...if I really wanted to get into Marvel Comics should I follow only a couple of stories and forget the rest? Heard something about Spidey making a deal with Mephisto, him being replaced by Doctor Octopus and stuff like that being called "awful stories" and whatnot in Forums and Twitter.

Is there anything recent from Marvel getting into?
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It's not super recent, but Hickman's Fantastic Four/FF run into his Avengers/New Avengers run into Secret Wars is incredible
 

Deleted member 442

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
2,431
AlexBasch said:
So...if I really wanted to get into Marvel Comics should I follow only a couple of stories and forget the rest? Heard something about Spidey making a deal with Mephisto, him being replaced by Doctor Octopus and stuff like that being called "awful stories" and whatnot in Forums and Twitter.

Is there anything recent from Marvel getting into?
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Focus on finding a particular writer that you enjoy and follow the stuff that they do rather than getting bogged down in what series to follow.

One thing that is pretty common is that an individual writer might be doing fun and inventive stuff with an individual character, team or setting whilst a big crossover event completely tramples over it because stuff needs to get shaken up every year or so. Big events can be cool but they can also have shitty endings.

Here's some recommendations from what I've read and enjoyed.

Jason Aaron has done a lot of Thor and Asgard based stuff for the past decade or so that has been very well received.

If you prefer the thought of cosmic, end of the world stuff with the Fantastic Four or the Avengers then look at Jonathan Hickman's work from around 2010 - 2015.

I really like Al Ewing's work on Loki. That finished around 2015 as well. Funny and light hearted whilst being pretty meaningful.

Dan Slott often comes in for criticism for some of his work on Spiderman but his run on Silver Surfer is some of the most charming and heart warming stuff you can read. It's basically the best Doctor Who comic you'll ever read.

See if you can get a free trial on Marvel Unlimited, check a few recommendations from a few individual writers and see if you enjoy what they do. Check out their other stuff if you're still interested. Ignore the big events until you know whether the person who is writing it is someone who's work you actually enjoy.
 
TheMadTitan

TheMadTitan

Member
Oct 27, 2017
27,236
AlexBasch said:
So...if I really wanted to get into Marvel Comics should I follow only a couple of stories and forget the rest? Heard something about Spidey making a deal with Mephisto, him being replaced by Doctor Octopus and stuff like that being called "awful stories" and whatnot in Forums and Twitter.

Is there anything recent from Marvel getting into?
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My advice for anyone getting into comics: Just jump into the most recent comic book arc pertaining to whatever book you want to read. If it's a low barrier of entry to the first issue of the book/volume, start at that instead of the arc. In relation to you, I'd suggest you'd start at Amazing Spider-Man #1 for the latest volume instead of the current story arc since it's only about 18 issues in.

Serialized comics cover what they need to when they need to and don't when they don't. So, you're not going to need to know about what Spider-Man did in August of 1997 to follow what's happening to him in 2019, and if you are going to need that information, it's summarized within the issue or story arc that references it. Stuff within the past three to five years might come up, though, but it's still easy to work around. Anything that you don't know from pop culture, movies, or video games, you can glean from looking at character summaries on Wikipedia or the Marvel Database Wiki.

I jumped into DC Comics after years of not reading comics right at the lead in to one of the most convoluted and long form story arcs (Infinite Crisis) with nothing but Wikipedia and the DC Database Wiki to back me up on characters I didn't know about or plot points I didn't know (of which there were many) and I came out just fine.

It's easy as shit for a newbie to jump into comics these days. You don't need to read years worth of comics, just some paragraphs in a wiki. There's also Scans Daily, a popular site that summarizes comic issues, recent and not so recent, with a few panels peppered in the articles to provide visual context.
 
Mafro

Mafro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,365
ibrahima said:
Al Ewing's Ultimates provides a much better portrayal of Danvers, unfortunately it gets a bit dragged down by Civil War 2 part way through. It is definitely one of my favourite series of the past few years, it's a shame it seemingly had to be wrapped up so quickly.
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Yeah that was by far my favourite comic of that line-wide relaunch. It was a pretty good replacement for Hickman's Avengers while it lasted.
 
TAJ

TAJ

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
12,446
The original Civil War comics were godawful, so Civil War 2 had to be bad, for consistency.
 
behOemoth

behOemoth

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,623
Didn't civil war 2 also put Stark into coma?
I think I lost touch with the recent story lines after civil war 2 and the event where both main universes were just put together.
 
SageShinigami

SageShinigami

Member
Oct 27, 2017
30,474
Their need to do multiple events a year is how this happened. They're so busy trying to keep sales up they're tossing out stories that are bad and are given no time to breathe.
 
jph139

jph139

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,379
In a nutshell - Bendis wanted to write a story about Miles Morales being profiled, backed up and scaled it into an event book, and then somehow it got twisted into a Civil War book for the sales numbers. And frankly he's just not a skilled enough writer to pull off that story with the nuance it needs.

The basic seed is interesting though. Like, superheroing is already extra-judicial policing and/or violence without any real oversight. It's already vaguely fascistic. Pre-crime is kind of the natural evolution. I don't buy Tony as leader of the opposition though.
 
Candescence

Candescence

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,253
Much like the first Civil War, it was an inkling of a good idea done terribly, terribly wrong. Neither Marvel nor DC are very good at getting event comics right consistently nowadays - I mean, Heroes In Crisis is a fucking garbage fire as well.

The only silver lining is that Ewing used Bruce Banner's death in CWII as a jumping-off point for his excellent new Immortal Hulk series.

jph139 said:
In a nutshell - Bendis wanted to write a story about Miles Morales being profiled, backed up and scaled it into an event book, and then somehow it got twisted into a Civil War book for the sales numbers. And frankly he's just not a skilled enough writer to pull off that story with the nuance it needs.

The basic seed is interesting though. Like, superheroing is already extra-judicial policing and/or violence without any real oversight. It's already vaguely fascistic. Pre-crime is kind of the natural evolution. I don't buy Tony as leader of the opposition though.
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Especially not after the first Civil War, which made the registration side look cartoonishly villainous.
 
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