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Scottoest

Member
Feb 4, 2020
11,417


Just wanted to bring t his to the attention of anyone who doesn't understand all of the meaningless babble around NFTs right now. I was one of them, and this is a really good explanation of how they work - and why they are a gigantic scam.

Link to video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XwMjPWOailQ&t=3s
 
Last edited:

Deleted member 22750

Oct 28, 2017
13,267
Yeah

take notice of companies who push this

because they're pushing a scam and letting you as a consumer know they're scamming
 
OP
OP
Scottoest

Scottoest

Member
Feb 4, 2020
11,417
"I bought a receipt that says I have a unique place in a database" just doesn't have the same prestige to it, lol.
 

Cheesy

Member
Oct 30, 2017
2,286
Whatever that video is I can't watch it, just says "this live event is no longer available"
 

Lady Gaia

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,497
Seattle
"I bought a receipt that says I have a unique place in a database" just doesn't have the same prestige to it, lol.

It's not like we haven't been down this road before. The whole "name a star after a departed loved one" thing is the same kind of nonsense, only without the hype-inducing implication that you'll get rich somehow, despite the fact that there's no way that actually works without the inevitable pyramid scheme collapse where the vast majority lose their so-called investment.

Take notice of the individuals too. I think we set a dangerous precedent here by letting people advocate for them here, personally.

100% this. Are you allowed to promote any old scam, or are NFTs and crypto special exemptions? And if so, why isn't there a big bold financial disclosure somewhere on the site regarding the stake anyone here might have. It seems like a huge securities fraud violation waiting to be pursued.
 

Sei

Member
Oct 28, 2017
5,758
LA
Pretty much, it's the people that missed out on the crypto boom, now want to redo it, but make it simpler for the average guy with too much money to understand it. Now you don't have to sell some really complicated investment into some future technology that's going to change the world, it's just digital scarcity for art.
 

WolfeTone

Member
Oct 25, 2017
617
Thanks for sharing OP. This was really helpful for me as a person who knew very little about the concept.
 

Echo

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
6,482
Mt. Whatever
User Banned (Permanently): Sexism; History of Sexist Behaviour
unknown.png
 

John Rabbit

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,190
...Why..?

It's a scam. It's better to call it out as such.
When there's obvious bias it starts to undermine the validity of the argument. I'm not saying I disagree with a single thing in this video, more that it would be more effective in my opinion if it clearly laid out how this all works without such obvious bias.
 

AllChan7

Tries to be a positive role model
Member
Apr 30, 2019
3,670
When there's obvious bias it starts to undermine the validity of the argument. I'm not saying I disagree with a single thing in this video, more that it would be more effective in my opinion if it clearly laid out how this all works without such obvious bias.

There's no reasonable explanation that makes NFTs look good lol

Artists suffer
The environment suffers
Literally can't think of a world where artificial digital scarcity like that solves any problems. All it does is create more problems
 

John Rabbit

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,190
There's no reasonable explanation that makes NFTs look good lol

Artists suffer
The environment suffers
Literally can't think of a world where artificial digital scarcity like that solves any problems. All it does is create more problems
Impartiality doesn't mean he needed to make a positive argument, more that he could've toned down the "and you see how this is obviously a joke right?" angle of the video. The more snark you lay into the anti-NFT argument the more you'll encourage the disingenuous sort of "you just don't understand/it's about the artists" kind of narrative from people invested in it. Just saying a more impartial dissection of the process would stand up better to the kinds of scrutiny it will get.
 

AllChan7

Tries to be a positive role model
Member
Apr 30, 2019
3,670
Impartiality doesn't mean he needed to make a positive argument, more that he could've toned down the "and you see how this is obviously a joke right?" angle of the video. The more snark you lay into the anti-NFT argument the more you'll encourage the disingenuous sort of "you just don't understand/it's about the artists" kind of narrative from people invested in it. Just saying a more impartial dissection of the process would stand up better to the kinds of scrutiny it will get.

I think in all fairness he kept it very professional considering how dumb the whole idea of NFTs are and how idiotic people are to fall for this scam. Most people are against them anyways and I doubt the people who are heavily invested in the NFT craze care much about any criticism it receives. As long as more people understand just how pointless and harmful they are, then the video has served its. purpose
 

Decarb

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,675
I don't know how much more impartial the video could've been considering the absurdity of this scam. He didn't even touch on how much of the environmental disaster this whole shebang is.
 

Modest_Modsoul

Living the Dreams
Member
Oct 29, 2017
23,948
Few seconds into the video & already Ape Escape footage. 😄

It's 'ironic' that the IP is dead & now NFTs booming.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 

Deleted member 22750

Oct 28, 2017
13,267
Take notice of the individuals too. I think we set a dangerous precedent here by letting people advocate for them here, personally.
And also remember if they're willing to use predatory ways to get into your wallet like gambling lootboxes and micro transactions and NFT then that means they're ALWAYS looking for a way to rip your money away from you. And laugh at your broke ass.
 

Runner

Member
Nov 1, 2017
2,749
I thought this was a pretty good explanation of the whole phenomenon.


It's worse than even he says it is. It's not even hard math problems it's basically a random number generator, and sometimes (like with most corporate nfts) you don't even get ownership of the art. You just get ownership of a receipt that says you paid Konami four hundred space bucks for.. the receipt and nothing else
 

drewfonse

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,979
Unbelievable. I really had no idea. The human race is doomed, and no, I didn't need this bullshit to illuminate that!, but yeah, doomed.
 

En-ou

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,840
I can see Fortnite NFTs popping up...snot nosed brats clamor to the parents for 20$ NFTs and they buy them not batting an eye because its Jimmy's bday. Epic makes billions more
 

Messofanego

Member
Oct 25, 2017
26,381
UK
Impartiality doesn't mean he needed to make a positive argument, more that he could've toned down the "and you see how this is obviously a joke right?" angle of the video. The more snark you lay into the anti-NFT argument the more you'll encourage the disingenuous sort of "you just don't understand/it's about the artists" kind of narrative from people invested in it. Just saying a more impartial dissection of the process would stand up better to the kinds of scrutiny it will get.
People into NFTs are in a cult. You're not going to deprogram their mind with facts and logic, even if plenty are used here. Impartiality won't move the needle for crypto bros to find whatever fallacious argument and justification for why it's a good thing because they need that due to sunk cost fallacy. They're going to be disingenuous anyway. There's bias in everything, the facts you present and select is a bias too. I'm just trying to understand why the cry for "impartiality" (personally I believe it's a myth). Do you want to give a video to a crypto bro to convince them it's bullshit or something?
 

Gabbo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,573
you don't even get ownership of the art. You just get ownership of a receipt that says you paid Konami four hundred space bucks for.. the receipt and nothing else
Is this not NFTs across the board? Sure, you could store art in block chain, but NFTs are just the block chain entry for the receipt, not the actual art.
 

Billfisto

Member
Oct 30, 2017
15,171
Canada
It's a good video, but if anyone is already really into NFTs they'll just retreat back to their standard lines, even if they don't directly refute anything in the video.
  • "Once the bad people leave the space it will be good."
  • "People didn't think the internet would catch on, either."
  • "Instead of dismissing it, someone smart will figure out a use case and become rich."
  • "You just don't understand it. You're just a hater."
  • This allows you to truly own X. Why are you being anti-consumer?
 

bytesized

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,882
Amsterdam
Great video.

I would recommend this one too that paints an even bleaker picture about some of the "unintended" consequences of NFTs and an unregulated Blockchain technology

 

Grue

Member
Sep 7, 2018
5,009
The more snark you lay into the anti-NFT argument the more you'll encourage the disingenuous sort of "you just don't understand/it's about the artists" kind of narrative from people invested in it. Just saying a more impartial dissection of the process would stand up better to the kinds of scrutiny it will get.

I agree.

People into NFTs are in a cult. You're not going to deprogram their mind with facts and logic, even if plenty are used here. Impartiality won't move the needle for crypto bros to find whatever fallacious argument and justification for why it's a good thing because they need that due to sunk cost fallacy. They're going to be disingenuous anyway. There's bias in everything, the facts you present and select is a bias too. I'm just trying to understand why the cry for "impartiality" (personally I believe it's a myth). Do you want to give a video to a crypto bro to convince them it's bullshit or something?

It's a good video, but if anyone is already really into NFTs they'll just retreat back to their standard lines, even if they don't directly refute anything in the video.
  • "Once the bad people leave the space it will be good."
  • "People didn't think the internet would catch on, either."
  • "Instead of dismissing it, someone smart will figure out a use case and become rich."
  • "You just don't understand it. You're just a hater."
  • This allows you to truly own X. Why are you being anti-consumer?


No offense but isn't this basically saying "There's no point explaining things to people or attempting to change their minds through dialogue".
 

SirKai

Member
Dec 28, 2017
7,514
Washington
No offense but isn't this basically saying "There's no point explaining things to people or attempting to change their minds through dialogue".

That's exactly the point. Cult-minded deprogramming is a lot more comprehensive and extensive than just tone-policing people. It's way more important to informatively and assertively illustrate to non-believers that this shit isn't worth believing in, and a takedown-style video like this is an important part of that. Something dry and "impartial" won't be nearly as engaging or revealing for the uninitiated.

There's basically nothing anyone could put it in any YouTube, no matter how it's framed or written, that would convince more than a sliver of the hardcore NFT-invested. At least the curious or casual crypto/NFT dabblers might look at this and feel ashamed/embarrassed because of the harsh and targeted tone, as they should.
 
Oct 25, 2017
333
Is this not NFTs across the board? Sure, you could store art in block chain, but NFTs are just the block chain entry for the receipt, not the actual art.

the NFT is just a pointer entry to the "art" that is contained in a blockchain.
the "art" is stored in a centralized server, which can be removed by the server host at any time, rendering the NFT potentially pointing to nothing at all.
 

Grue

Member
Sep 7, 2018
5,009
Something dry and "impartial" won't be nearly as engaging or revealing for the uninitiated.

Well again respectfully, I disagree.

If I want to be better informed then I'm way more likely to seek out disinterested, impartial sources that explore all sides without bias.

"You need to shout louder" is how we get to shit like Fox News.

Mostly though, stuff like this seems ineffective. Its an opinion piece for people who already share the opinion. It doesn't help anyone looking to be better informed, and if anything it might be counter-productive, turning away people coming in with a genuinely open mind.
 

AllChan7

Tries to be a positive role model
Member
Apr 30, 2019
3,670
Well again respectfully, I disagree.

If I want to be better informed then I'm way more likely to seek out disinterested, impartial sources that explore all sides without bias.

"You need to shout louder" is how we get to shit like Fox News.

Mostly though, stuff like this seems ineffective. Its an opinion piece for people who already share the opinion. It doesn't help anyone looking to be better informed, and if anything it might be counter-productive, turning away people coming in with a genuinely open mind.

Cultists aren't that easy to deprogram and it's best to be as direct and blunt as possible without sugar coating it. And there are people who will be on the fence about NFTs and see these sorts of videos and realize how bad they are. But the ones who are absolutely entrenched in the NFT craze will just write off the video. So it's better to lay out just how awful they are and what they are as bluntly as possible to at least save a few poor souls from diving head first in the cesspool
 

spam musubi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,396
Well again respectfully, I disagree.

If I want to be better informed then I'm way more likely to seek out disinterested, impartial sources that explore all sides without bias.

"You need to shout louder" is how we get to shit like Fox News.

Mostly though, stuff like this seems ineffective. Its an opinion piece for people who already share the opinion. It doesn't help anyone looking to be better informed, and if anything it might be counter-productive, turning away people coming in with a genuinely open mind.

this is the classical centrist fence sitter problem of thinking just because there are two sides to an issue that both need to be explored with equal validity. many issues don't have two equally valid sides. this is how we get anti vaxxers, climate deniers and more. one side persistently denies reality and science and frustrates the other side into submission, and then centrists go "both sides must be considered and this one side is constantly yelling about how the climate deniers are leading us to doom, the polite climate deniers seem much more reasonable"
 

Grue

Member
Sep 7, 2018
5,009
this is the classical centrist fence sitter problem of thinking just because there are two sides to an issue that both need to be explored with equal validity. many issues don't have two equally valid sides. this is how we get anti vaxxers, climate deniers and more. one side persistently denies reality and science and frustrates the other side into submission, and then centrists go "both sides must be considered and this one side is constantly yelling about how the climate deniers are leading us to doom, the polite climate deniers seem much more reasonable"

Yes I'm an anti-vax climate denier.

I think you made my point for me, mate, and way better.
 

spam musubi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,396
Yes I'm an anti-vax climate denier.

I think you made my point for me, mate, and way better.

lmao sure. point me to where I accused you of either of these things. it's actually quite funny that i just pointed out a problem with a particular strain of logic and you immediately caught feelings and decided to disengage when you were the one who is all about rational emotionless argumentation
 

FatalT

Member
Feb 24, 2019
2,500
Never thought I'd see someone try to both sides NFTs in a thread about how awful NFTs are. Stop promoting this scam.
 

gothmog

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,434
NY
I would love it if they banned NFT discussion in this forum. I get that there are ways they are being applied to games, but most of the threads seem to have very little to do with gaming.
 

Billfisto

Member
Oct 30, 2017
15,171
Canada
No offense but isn't this basically saying "There's no point explaining things to people or attempting to change their minds through dialogue".

"It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it."
--Upton Sinclair.

You're making the assumption that people are operating from a position where they're open to having their minds changed, and not firmly entrenched in their current mindset (or actively trying to propagate that mindset) specifically due to sunken costs or greed.

Changing minds through dialog is good, but it requires the other party to be open to dialog, or to having their mind changed. When there's a financial stake in them staying ignorant? The game's already against you. That's why I specifically said they'd retreat to those nonsense speculative rejoinders.

When you're already on the hook it's not about interpreting new information and changing your mind, it's about justifying your prior investments and hoping to make it out with a profit.

I wish logic worked on people who are already heavily into NFTs, but in the last year I've never actually seen a case of that working out.
 

Grue

Member
Sep 7, 2018
5,009
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it."
--Upton Sinclair.

You're making the assumption that people are operating from a position where they're open to having their minds changed, and not firmly entrenched in their current mindset (or actively trying to propagate that mindset) specifically due to sunken costs or greed.

Changing minds through dialog is good, but it requires the other party to be open to dialog, or to having their mind changed. When there's a financial stake in them staying ignorant? The game's already against you. That's why I specifically said they'd retreat to those nonsense speculative rejoinders.

When you're already on the hook it's not about interpreting new information and changing your mind, it's about justifying your prior investments and hoping to make it out with a profit.

I wish logic worked on people who are already heavily into NFTs, but in the last year I've never actually seen a case of that working out.

That's all fair.

But I don't think the video was aimed at changing the minds of 'brainwashed' or heavily invested people?

Certainly from my own perspective I went into it already thinking NFTs were a fad destined to die out. This is what I get:

Never thought I'd see someone try to both sides NFTs in a thread about how awful NFTs are. Stop promoting this scam.

Who's both-siding NFTs?

When there's obvious bias it starts to undermine the validity of the argument. I'm not saying I disagree with a single thing in this video, more that it would be more effective in my opinion if it clearly laid out how this all works without such obvious bias.

This is where we started, the suggestion the message could be more effective if delivered in a different way. You can agree or disagree with that, fair enough.

But we're already at the point where 'fence sitter', 'both sides', 'anti-vax', 'climate denier' and 'caught feelings' are all being brought into the conversation, just because a couple of us found the vid ineffective.

I would love it if they banned NFT discussion in this forum. I get that there are ways they are being applied to games, but most of the threads seem to have very little to do with gaming.

It does seem having a sensible conversation is increasingly difficult.

Guess I'll leave it there, don't want to derail further and I get the sense criticism of the video will always be taken as Them vs Us.
 

Damaniel

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
6,544
Portland, OR
I don't know how much more impartial the video could've been considering the absurdity of this scam. He didn't even touch on how much of the environmental disaster this whole shebang is.

To be fair, there are supposedly NFT blockchains that aren't environmental disasters - but at the same time, there's so many other things about NFTs that are stupid that you can only really bring up so many of them in a 20 minute video.