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What the fuck is with the all lives matter people?
- Thread starter It’s Time To Go
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Does creating a fictitious narrative to make yourself feel better than others help you sleep at night? Because if it is then before I put you on ignore I'd recommend chamomile tea. Hope you it helps mate, bye.
This should be the default position unless someone is making overt heinous comments. Not sure why I need to ask but thanks I guess.
I'm not asking that at all. I already know how they can be heard.
That's fine. You're arguing against a strawman here. No where did I say people shouldn't use the term "BLM". No where. Just so were clearly I'll make it overt by saying that if people want to fight oppression by only using the term "BLM" or if they only want to focus specifically on just black lives at the moment then fine. I have zero problem with that.
What I'm saying is that for some people they don't think that the oppression of black people is the only injustice going on at the moment, they don't think it should be the only focus, they don't think it should be centre stage and others being oppressed are an after thought tact on at the end. Some people have been consistently raising awareness and trying to fight various forms of injustices in Myanmar, Yemeni, Xinjiang etc.. for a while now and think they're equally as noble and worthwhile causes as black oppression in america. So for them a term like "all lives matter" encompasses all of those without putting any one cause on the back seat. That's what they are doing. These specific people aren't saying "my safe comfortable life is worth the same as oppressed individuals" as people are trying to make out here, they're are saying all the differing oppressed lives matter equally
By saying mentioning Uyghurs means you're "deflecting and distracting from the movement" it does certainly seem like you're saying fighting oppression needs to take turns, like someone can't focus on the oppression Uyghurs and black Americans at the same time. If that's how you approach matters then fine, I wouldn't agree with that personally as I know a number of people that try and do good on a number of causes all at the same time.
I also don't agree with just letting white supremacist "own" a perfectly positive phrase.
2 people. One of which is arguing in such a freakishly bad faith way and you. I also don't agree that your social media bubble is the only social media bubble. Ok you happen to orbit/come into contact with white racists in your bubble. My bubble mainly consists of people of colour (from the UK) themselves so the context isn't even remotely the same.
Ok cool yo. You're the only person who is talking about Myanmar and Xinjiang when they say all lives matter. Everyone else saying it is a racist Karen. Congrats on your victory.
I'm not the one using the phrase. And it's not just a single person that I know using in in positive manner, it's multiple. If you'd actually read my post sincerely before making this pointless sarcastic post you'd know that.
They are usually people who are just so ignorant and want to be seen as morally superior. 'I CARE ABOUT ALL PEOPLE'
Okay so you think all lives matter. Cool. You gonna donate and protest to help back up that statement ? Or are you just going to sit there smug like a twat ?
Okay so you think all lives matter. Cool. You gonna donate and protest to help back up that statement ? Or are you just going to sit there smug like a twat ?
Either they are ignorant to what BLM actually means or they are just racists trying to undermine the movement.
I'd sincerely like to see who these people are and try to comprehend why they would continue to use the phrase when it's obviously been coopted by racists. Hell, it originated with racists. It doesn't make sense. Usually when i see it 9/10 times they also bring in millions of dead black babies because of abortion. So I don't understand why anyone using the phrase would continue using it. If you want to campaign for global human rights it doesn't even make sense to use that phrase. Point out all the abuses you care about and campaign against them. Blanketing them all with all lives matter no one is even going to know what the fuck you are talking about if you want to help Xinjiang or Myanmar, they will assume you are attempting to subvert a good cause because that's what virtually every one who uses the phrase is doing.
1) Fear out of straight up not understanding what BLM is.
They think people saying BLM is them saying "non black lives don't matter".
2) They are malicious racists.
They think people saying BLM is them saying "non black lives don't matter".
2) They are malicious racists.
OK, no one thinks the oppression of black people on America is the only oppression going on right now. Black Americans certainly don't think that. These protests have a very clear purpose and message, and are motivated by a very specific subject (police brutality against black people). I never said various forms of oppression had to 'take turns', but clearly you think that or the people who you are describing think that if they think that these protests shouldn't be focused on the particular issue that prompted them and is fueling them. You seem to be setting up this really weird strawman where every protest HAS to be about every form of injustice simultaneously, even though that's generally not how activism works. Activism works through having a clear message. I'm not saying you are against BLM, but when All Lives Matter was coined specifically as a rebuttal to BLM, then people need to be aware of what they are saying when invoking it. These protests aren't specifically about Myanmar, or the Uighurs, or Yemen, or whatever else, but all of those causes and the people they affect are welcome to unite behind a common goal of resisting oppression.
Why would someone who has faced another form of oppression be angry that this form of oppression, which has been an issue for decades and has been reignited because of recent events, be upset that it's being protested against?
When the Dakota Access Pipeline was being protested, black activists were there to help native American people assert their rights to their land. They weren't engaging in whataboutism on Twitter.
The difference between us lies in the fact you're only/predominantly basing your view on the American social media verse. I'm not. Their are a lot of social media bubbles that aren't American centric that haven't been invaded by alt-right/racist/4chan troll groups. Where not every other account has an anime avatar with maga hat.
What I am saying is that one such social media bubble is one of the ones I partake in and if you were to somehow stumble on a tweet from one of these individuals you'd incorrectly assume they were racists. Social media is a big place in you can often stumble upon such social medie bubbles and it'd a shame to frame someone that has been consistently working against oppression as a racist just because a positive phrase has been cooped in some sections of social media by racists.
I was at a BLM protest this past Sunday in my town when one of the protestors started chanting and leading the group with an all lives matter chant. Dude was a young black dude who was leading most of the chants, and I honestly don't think he realized the connotations but it was still super cringe-worthy. Eventually they started chanting all lives matter when black lives matter, but even that was a little dicey IMO. The worst part though was when the same young dude started doing an anti-Trump chant, the protest's organizer approached him and told him the protest wasn't about Trump and that Trump was a symptom of the problem or some bullshit. Basically, she didn't want to scare any Republicans off, which is fucking stupid because no Republican is going to a BLM protest. It was also super condescending for a white woman to tell a black protestor at a BLM protest what he was allowed to protest.
The underlying problem is that a lot of white people don't want to accept they have any level of privlege. Then they pull the bullshit:"if it were reversed and I said ______ (countless examples) then it would be considered racist"
Yes... it would you inconsiderate fuck.
Many white people feel destined to be included in everything and lack any sort perception in why they would be excluded, leading them to believe there can be racism towards them, but society is doesn't care because of "mainstream media" trying to pit media against one another.
Yes... it would you inconsiderate fuck.
Many white people feel destined to be included in everything and lack any sort perception in why they would be excluded, leading them to believe there can be racism towards them, but society is doesn't care because of "mainstream media" trying to pit media against one another.
A lot of it is weak white people feeling that if black people are being treated better they some how are being treated worse, and it's insane
It demonstrates the highest level of entitlement and privilege shown by some white people. The idea of them not being the focus is so disturbing to them that they choose to ignore all the oppression of POC to make themselves feel better and included. It's that stupid.
I'm white, but I hate when other white people say this to me when we discuss racial issues. Makes me flip out every time. The black on black crime thing is particularly angering.
White people are not able to admit to themselves that they have a privilege because they selfishly want to keep it for themselves.
Privilege separates people from the effects of (institutionalized) racism, so much so that they dismiss the concerns of those who are affected by it.
People I know that don't understand BLM don't realize how privileged they are. They usually claim altruism but it's intellectually dishonest, to put it nicely.
People I know that don't understand BLM don't realize how privileged they are. They usually claim altruism but it's intellectually dishonest, to put it nicely.
I'm white and I have literally never understood this but my best guess is sensitive white people who can't stand to not have the attention on them for once in their lives, or they think highlighting the plight of a specific race is somehow actually racist. If somehow minorities are being treated better it somehow negatively affects them. These type of people always think that anything that doesn't include them is actually bad because they're selfish. These are the same type of people who will argue that "everyone needs to come together, stop blaming me because I'm white!" It's just selfishness and ignorance.
They will all be billionaires one day, just watch!
How tragic will their inevitable epiphany be.
Did you miss the part where I very literally said that if people want to only focus on this specific issue then that's totally fine and valid? What I also said is that some people might want make it a wider issue on the various forms of pressing oppression in the world.
Not sure how it's me that thinks that when you are literally the only person that has twice now said that brining up another cause of oppression literally "distracting". Mate you said that. No one else. What else could that mean?
Nope. Only strawman here is this by you since never once did I say people "HAVE" to protest "all" forms of oppression at the same time. I even mentioned specific cases, not all cases of oppression. People are free and welcome to champion whatever singular cause they want. What I am saying is that for some people that have a particular cause they're interested prior to this and then they see the oppression in America and maybe various other players it might flip a switch in their head that hey a lot of different people are being oppressed all of over the world not just these specific people I've be championing, I want to be inclusive a for a moment champion all oppressed people. Don't think there's anything at all wrong with that.
As I pointed to another user, for some people their social media bubble is not going to consist of a significant amount of people that are rebutting BLM. They see it as a general positive term and use it as such. We differ on allowing racist to own the term, I fully understand where you're coming from but where I'm coming from is I don't believe in allowing coordinated racist troll groups own whatever they put their minds to.
We're are in agreement on this then. I've never said any different.
They wouldn't angry. When did I say they would be angry? I literally said they he exact opposite. Just as we are getting somewhere you veer into another strawman which I said the exact opposite of
You're using whataboutism incorrectly in this case. What I am saying is that the people using all lives matter are not trying to discredit the fight against black oppression, they just adding to it.
The only people I've ever met in person that were "all lives matter" types were at work, all extremely well off white people working tech jobs like me but never lived any kind of life outside of the 99% white suburbs. Their world is completely void of black and brown people outside of work. They have absolutely no clue what it's like for the majority of black and brown people in the country.
I think I've shared this story here before, but they remind me of an old boss. I was 26 or 27 at the time, she was a new manager. I had worked with her for several months and respected her - she seemed kind and truly insightful. One day we're leaving some five star hotel where we had a meeting with Hewlett-Packard - I can't even recall for what. She stops me and says "lets go around, I saw them looking at us! (sic)". Confused, I look around and notice what is clearly restaurant workers from the hotel taking a break, eight or nine black men and women. That blonde white woman was so terrified that a few black people looked in her direction she straight up panicked. It was absolutely bizarre to me to witness.
That's how every single "all lives matter" people come across to me. We're all aliens to them, unless we speak the right way and wear tucked in Polo shirts into khakis alongside them at work.
I think I've shared this story here before, but they remind me of an old boss. I was 26 or 27 at the time, she was a new manager. I had worked with her for several months and respected her - she seemed kind and truly insightful. One day we're leaving some five star hotel where we had a meeting with Hewlett-Packard - I can't even recall for what. She stops me and says "lets go around, I saw them looking at us! (sic)". Confused, I look around and notice what is clearly restaurant workers from the hotel taking a break, eight or nine black men and women. That blonde white woman was so terrified that a few black people looked in her direction she straight up panicked. It was absolutely bizarre to me to witness.
That's how every single "all lives matter" people come across to me. We're all aliens to them, unless we speak the right way and wear tucked in Polo shirts into khakis alongside them at work.
Still relevant today as far as the idiocy that comes from the alllivesmatter brigade is concerned
Then what's the issue, exactly? Anyone can talk about any type of oppression they want to, no one is stopping them. They probably shouldn't use the All Lives Matter framing though, since that was created specifically to downplay BLM as a movement. Maybe people in other countries are unaware of that, but if they are gonna jump into this conversation they can learn.
This. Contrary to what some may think, there are people saying "all lives matter" who for reasons like language barriers, ignorance of context etc... think they're sharing a positive message that is compatible with or equivalent to BLM; that's part of what makes it such an insidious statement. But no-one should be saying it. You aren't "reclaiming" ALM when its origins and majority usage is as a tool of denial and obfuscation (or just a racist rallying cry).
What always confuses me is that black lives mattering does not suggest black supremacy or come at the expense of other people's lives mattering. It's not like we have to ration this shit out. It's such fucking contrived melodrama
BLM is the perfect motto because it invites racist assholes to "misinterpret" it and expose themselves
For those who literally don't understand the context of the statement, Google is their friend when someone calls them out on it. If they don't course-correct once they know, that's totally on them.
The fact it exists in the first place is due to the (false) belief by many white people that everything is a zero-sum game, like saying "Black Lives Matter" somehow subtracts from their own right to humanity, in some oblivious bullshit. This is where similar rhetoric comes from, as well. There's some studies that suggest human beings have a cognitive bias towards viewing the whole world as a zero-sum game... but if I were to guess, the sample groups from those studies was probably majority white, since it feels like such a majoritarian mindset tailor-made for people who gained their majority by illicit means and are fearful of others doing the same.
And yet, the world has had the capacity to be a positive-sum game since the Industrial Revolution (and it should be already, were it not for certain intentional perversions of society enacted by our elected leaders), so all it becomes is white people being afraid to share power, wealth, dignity and/or the whole experience of common and mutual humanity with others.
The fact it exists in the first place is due to the (false) belief by many white people that everything is a zero-sum game, like saying "Black Lives Matter" somehow subtracts from their own right to humanity, in some oblivious bullshit. This is where similar rhetoric comes from, as well. There's some studies that suggest human beings have a cognitive bias towards viewing the whole world as a zero-sum game... but if I were to guess, the sample groups from those studies was probably majority white, since it feels like such a majoritarian mindset tailor-made for people who gained their majority by illicit means and are fearful of others doing the same.
And yet, the world has had the capacity to be a positive-sum game since the Industrial Revolution (and it should be already, were it not for certain intentional perversions of society enacted by our elected leaders), so all it becomes is white people being afraid to share power, wealth, dignity and/or the whole experience of common and mutual humanity with others.
OP
OP
When someone says "black lives matter", the all lives matter people hear "only black lives matter" because consciously or not, they feel their sense of morality and position in society threatened.
I had a buddy who took Police Foundations in college say "all lives matter" to me straight-faced once. I told him how fucking stupid that statement is. If someone actually thinks BLM is disputing that all human life matters, they are a fucking idiot. To his credit, pretty sure he took my ranting to heart. He seems like a pretty progressive guy these days.
I had a buddy who took Police Foundations in college say "all lives matter" to me straight-faced once. I told him how fucking stupid that statement is. If someone actually thinks BLM is disputing that all human life matters, they are a fucking idiot. To his credit, pretty sure he took my ranting to heart. He seems like a pretty progressive guy these days.
It's because this country selfishly lacks empathy. Everyone want's to throw their own "problems" onto the flame to disregard the fact that someone else's problems might be more important than theirs for a change.
Black Lives Matter is something that has needed attention for centuries.
Black Lives Matter is something that has needed attention for centuries.
