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What JRPG trope do you hate the most and want mitigated or eliminated altogether?
- Thread starter hwarang
- Start date
My vote would go to 'other' (which should always be an option for polls like this TBH) stop forcing as many tutorials god damnit. It's not just JRPGs obviously, but there should be like a toggle/option in the menu to skip/minimise these as much as possible. KH3 and Persona 5 Royal stick out to me as being particularly egregious with how many times you have to see/play through something that just makes you go 'thanks captain obvious' like P5R's mandatory battle with a tutorial pop up that "guns are effective on enemies weak to guns". P5R is even more annoying considering that a lot of these tutorials were in P5 too- there really should have been an option in the police cell when you're inputting your name and difficulty level that basically says 'have you played Persona 5'? And if you answer yes you don't have to go through that slog of a tutorial laden opening.
I wanted to vote for everything
Sigh, fine, i'll vote for only one. Children party members. No, japan, NO. And stop fucking bullshitting that its a 50.000 year old dragon in the body of an 8yo that only makes it far creepier
Sigh, fine, i'll vote for only one. Children party members. No, japan, NO. And stop fucking bullshitting that its a 50.000 year old dragon in the body of an 8yo that only makes it far creepier
I think dedicated healers themselves are a dead class archetype, honestly. Contemporary healers nowadays can do way more to fight back than casting a heal spell on an "undead" enemy type.
I wished I could vote for everything, but I went with useless fetch quests (slightly ahead of child party members). Considering most JRPGs have you being "chosen" or some revered "savior of the kingdom", why am I gathering 4 sheep for Farmer Joe? It's purposeful filler and it's in almost every JRPG. Better storyline side quests for sure.
Selected souless sidequests, for obvious reasons, and silent protagonists.
I literally cannot stand them, just standing awkwardly with no emotion in their eyes; having no personality.
And then to make it worse, theres some games where they actually talk in a cutscene or two and its like 'WHY ISNT THIS IN THE FULL GAME'
Ruins stories for me, whenever I see one with a silent protag I just write off the story immediately because they're always bland.
As for children, there are some I like, Poppi is one of the best parts of XB2 for example. But then on the other side of the fence there's Charlotte in Trials of Mana and hooooly shiiit, feed this shit to the monsters "uwu iwm juwst a wittle girwl uwu"
I literally cannot stand them, just standing awkwardly with no emotion in their eyes; having no personality.
And then to make it worse, theres some games where they actually talk in a cutscene or two and its like 'WHY ISNT THIS IN THE FULL GAME'
Ruins stories for me, whenever I see one with a silent protag I just write off the story immediately because they're always bland.
As for children, there are some I like, Poppi is one of the best parts of XB2 for example. But then on the other side of the fence there's Charlotte in Trials of Mana and hooooly shiiit, feed this shit to the monsters "uwu iwm juwst a wittle girwl uwu"
The trope I hate the most is diologue choices that are completely meaningless.
"Hey Protag, do you think that the magic orbs are important?
>Yes
>Definitely
Like just why have these?. So many JRPGs do, though.
"Hey Protag, do you think that the magic orbs are important?
>Yes
>Definitely
Like just why have these?. So many JRPGs do, though.
I mean in Pokemon you usually play as a child protagonist, but it's probably less annoying due to your character being mute.
Also, Loli is lumped in with the generic child character choice. So people would don't normally mind child party members could be voting for that because of the loli mention.
Sexualized child characters and harems, especially when combined, are probably the worst JRPG tropes to me. I mean, I get wanting some relationship drama, but having every female character lusting after the generic male lead is just... dull.
As a runner up, can I mention the Hot Springs scene? And yes, the Hot Springs scene as there is only the one and minor variants.
Our heroes find some source of warm water. The perv character in the party wants to leer at the women of the party. He makes a noise and our bland hero protagonist gets the blame as the women o the part attack him mostly naked. If we're following the women, there's a greater than average that they'll be comparing breast sizes as that's the only topic the writers apparently can think of for a group of women sharing a hot bath.
It's just getting old. To the point where even a subversion or role reversal would still feel overdone.
As a runner up, can I mention the Hot Springs scene? And yes, the Hot Springs scene as there is only the one and minor variants.
Our heroes find some source of warm water. The perv character in the party wants to leer at the women of the party. He makes a noise and our bland hero protagonist gets the blame as the women o the part attack him mostly naked. If we're following the women, there's a greater than average that they'll be comparing breast sizes as that's the only topic the writers apparently can think of for a group of women sharing a hot bath.
It's just getting old. To the point where even a subversion or role reversal would still feel overdone.
I'd have to go with all those options. Loli characters are the worst though. And those gasps and grunts in dialogue that seems to be a thing (FF7 remake is a recent offender) - not a fan.
It's not on here, but I really hate having a party member dying for good in a game, especially if it's late game after I've been using them for so long.
It's also very silly how these deaths are official in a game where you can revive from death with an item.
It's also very silly how these deaths are official in a game where you can revive from death with an item.
I voted for it because "loli" implies some skeevy shit that only appeal to sick fucks.
The classic "half naked big breasted little girl is actually older than the universe so it's ok" trope, it was one thing when Tiki was a sprite, but now...
Loli and bad/mundane/meaningless side quests.
Also not *just* a jrpg problem but English localization going super heavy on breath sounds/vocalizations and that shit. It's such an annoying trope of English language localization
Also not *just* a jrpg problem but English localization going super heavy on breath sounds/vocalizations and that shit. It's such an annoying trope of English language localization
There's a difference between a game played as a child (Pokemon, MMBN, Digimon, Yokai Watch, etc) and a game where you have a random child party member who's a genius/prodigy/whatever bullshit excuse they justify to have a child with a group of adults)
That doesn't look like a child at all though...isn't that her older form?The classic "half naked big breasted little girl is actually older than the universe so it's ok" trope, it was one thing when Tiki was a sprite, but now...
Why we can only chose 2 options at Max?
Let me chose at least 3 OP!
My order would be:
1- Harem... What is worse than a child party member? Having that child being in love with the MC. And having every woman in the world having the hots for you... That makes them unable to grow without you pursuing her. And thus having the woman with a more shallow story.
2- Filler side quests... The witcher 3 was released 5 years ago. Proving how that is possible to enrich your world with great side quests and NPCs. So please give something different than Kill X monster(s) or collect Y material(s)
3- Children. This option is my third because if the game isn't creepy with them (see option 1) they can write interesting children in games... Sadly this almost never happen, but is possible.
Let me chose at least 3 OP!
My order would be:
1- Harem... What is worse than a child party member? Having that child being in love with the MC. And having every woman in the world having the hots for you... That makes them unable to grow without you pursuing her. And thus having the woman with a more shallow story.
2- Filler side quests... The witcher 3 was released 5 years ago. Proving how that is possible to enrich your world with great side quests and NPCs. So please give something different than Kill X monster(s) or collect Y material(s)
3- Children. This option is my third because if the game isn't creepy with them (see option 1) they can write interesting children in games... Sadly this almost never happen, but is possible.
Mine wasn't listed so i'll put it here, "Everything would have been fine if we'd just talked." Usually takes the form of one character obviously has a problem/issue, the others could help with it if they talked about it, even ask said character about it, but are ignored. this always blows up later. I *hate* it.
The need for the story to alaways escalate to epic levels of epicness
JRPG: 1 hour in: we need to help the villager daughter to find her lost puppy
JRPG 40 hours in: We need to KILL GOD and use his soul to stop the destruction of the multiverse
Is possible to have epic moments in more grounded stories, and i'm sure that some JRPG's have achievied that, i just want that to be more the rule and less the exception
JRPG: 1 hour in: we need to help the villager daughter to find her lost puppy
JRPG 40 hours in: We need to KILL GOD and use his soul to stop the destruction of the multiverse
Is possible to have epic moments in more grounded stories, and i'm sure that some JRPG's have achievied that, i just want that to be more the rule and less the exception
Co-signed! The bath talk is even worse when they start to talk about the token loli's breast. Like no!
Characters obviously withholding important information, being asked about it, and responding "oh, it's nothing".
I want to rant about a few!
Protagonists that feel like a self insert of somebody that I suspect are angry towards the world. So they're bitter, awkward, completely inappropriate towards others (especially girls) with an arc that revolves around learning to somewhat care about something. And the story is constantly pushing towards how your actions are perfect and everyone loves and respects you, despite the character often doing questionable things. It's everywhere in anime now, too.
I suppose this somewhat ties into a redemption arc too. I'm tired of JRPG's thinking that every character needs some kind of redemption. It's the worst when you defeat an antagonist that has done horrific things throughout a long stretch of time and their last moments are framed as they were a good person deep down.
I'm also tired of fake-out death scenes. Even one of the last SRPG's I played had about 3 death scenes that they undid not long after, with no believable explanation. It completely took me out of the story and the ending felt like such obvious manipulation that I could see from a mile away. It went from a game I was enjoying to one that I felt bitter about.
Which also ties into my last one, but story beats that rely on shock value to manipulate you into feeling some temporary emotion towards a character or event, which can confuse you into feeling like you're more invested in it. It's here when JRPG's can really show how terribly it treats its characters and world, and how messed up its morals are for the sake of a temporary reaction. Again, anime does this often and it's flat out ruined many shows for me.
I've long lost count of how often this happens. It just shows how much the plot is hinging on a complete lack of information amongst all parties.
Protagonists that feel like a self insert of somebody that I suspect are angry towards the world. So they're bitter, awkward, completely inappropriate towards others (especially girls) with an arc that revolves around learning to somewhat care about something. And the story is constantly pushing towards how your actions are perfect and everyone loves and respects you, despite the character often doing questionable things. It's everywhere in anime now, too.
I suppose this somewhat ties into a redemption arc too. I'm tired of JRPG's thinking that every character needs some kind of redemption. It's the worst when you defeat an antagonist that has done horrific things throughout a long stretch of time and their last moments are framed as they were a good person deep down.
I'm also tired of fake-out death scenes. Even one of the last SRPG's I played had about 3 death scenes that they undid not long after, with no believable explanation. It completely took me out of the story and the ending felt like such obvious manipulation that I could see from a mile away. It went from a game I was enjoying to one that I felt bitter about.
Which also ties into my last one, but story beats that rely on shock value to manipulate you into feeling some temporary emotion towards a character or event, which can confuse you into feeling like you're more invested in it. It's here when JRPG's can really show how terribly it treats its characters and world, and how messed up its morals are for the sake of a temporary reaction. Again, anime does this often and it's flat out ruined many shows for me.
I've long lost count of how often this happens. It just shows how much the plot is hinging on a complete lack of information amongst all parties.
Noooo, that is the essence of jRPGs! Ok, not all, but def of a lot. I fucking love it. The imagination has no limits when it comes to jRPGs. That goes for character progression as well, you start with a wooden sword and end with the ULTIMA WEAPON. Basic summon a Chocobo, end with Bahamut ZERO that literally sends a nuke-like explosion from outer space.
I feel like we have western RPGs for more grounded stories.
Lack of Deaths and Harem are my 2 choices. The popular one to pick is the Loli/Child party member ones and I'd half agree, but I'm actually fine with child party members, like Vivi or Eiko and, of course, games where the protags are kids; one of my favorite games last year was Destiny Connect, which is all kids and a Robot.
Lack of Deaths tends to lend itself to a story with a lack of any consequences, which makes the mundaneity of a lot of JRPG plots even more so. There's a bad habit these days of going overboard in the opposite direction for shock value, but just having some kind of consequence at all is still better than the toothless drivel we often get.
Harem is my second choice but it's equally as abhorred, if not more so, because it makes it so that a boring character gets the spotlight and every other character around him is made worse as well because they're forced to base their lives around him. I love shipping stuff, but throwing a self-insert into the mix is not fun to me. For a clear divergent path in terms of what I like and dislike, take the support style of the GBA Fire Emblem games versus The 3ds+ style with the Avatars.
Lack of Deaths tends to lend itself to a story with a lack of any consequences, which makes the mundaneity of a lot of JRPG plots even more so. There's a bad habit these days of going overboard in the opposite direction for shock value, but just having some kind of consequence at all is still better than the toothless drivel we often get.
Harem is my second choice but it's equally as abhorred, if not more so, because it makes it so that a boring character gets the spotlight and every other character around him is made worse as well because they're forced to base their lives around him. I love shipping stuff, but throwing a self-insert into the mix is not fun to me. For a clear divergent path in terms of what I like and dislike, take the support style of the GBA Fire Emblem games versus The 3ds+ style with the Avatars.
I want more grounded stories. I love FF 9 CD1 but hate CD3 onward. Just let me fight an evil empire without having metaphysics discussion.
The strange homophobia
the main character being idle in most cutscenes. Like you see some monster attacking Tifa and Cloud is just watching with no reaction.
Also about cutscenes : power level consistency. you can fight an helicopter with your sword and in the next cutscene, your character lower his weapon because the bad guy has a gun. (Ff14 does this a lot)
The strange homophobia
the main character being idle in most cutscenes. Like you see some monster attacking Tifa and Cloud is just watching with no reaction.
Also about cutscenes : power level consistency. you can fight an helicopter with your sword and in the next cutscene, your character lower his weapon because the bad guy has a gun. (Ff14 does this a lot)
None those options bother me too much but this:
"No...it's nothing."
Is almost always infuriating for me.
Anytime a character says something like this you know you're in for some easily avoidable BS had they just bothered to speak up about it and is just a weak why of building mystery. Tales of the Abyss was so bad with this.
"No...it's nothing."
Is almost always infuriating for me.
Anytime a character says something like this you know you're in for some easily avoidable BS had they just bothered to speak up about it and is just a weak why of building mystery. Tales of the Abyss was so bad with this.
honestly, the one that makes me roll my eyes the most is the Absolutely Perfect Protagonist
every woman is flustered and blushing by his mere presence
every other male character is emasculated and/or broadcasts their happiness in being mere supporting characters in what is obviously his story
he's never portrayed as being wrong or even foolish, the plot will go out of its way to explain and excuse any of his behaviors or actions
all opportunities to grow more powerful -- any legendary objects or abilities are to be ceded solely to him. the victory and glory are to be his alone.
self-insert isekai power fantasy bullshit. the main character is everything, therefore he is nothing, because there are no stakes -- how could the fragile egos of the players possibly withstand even a moment of self reflection or doubt. i feel like the developers must despise the player if this is how they imagine them.
i'll still play games like Ys and Tales simply because the gameplay is good and some of the systems are fun or interesting, but the story is hollow, transparent, and interchangeable, and I feel nothing.
every woman is flustered and blushing by his mere presence
every other male character is emasculated and/or broadcasts their happiness in being mere supporting characters in what is obviously his story
he's never portrayed as being wrong or even foolish, the plot will go out of its way to explain and excuse any of his behaviors or actions
all opportunities to grow more powerful -- any legendary objects or abilities are to be ceded solely to him. the victory and glory are to be his alone.
self-insert isekai power fantasy bullshit. the main character is everything, therefore he is nothing, because there are no stakes -- how could the fragile egos of the players possibly withstand even a moment of self reflection or doubt. i feel like the developers must despise the player if this is how they imagine them.
i'll still play games like Ys and Tales simply because the gameplay is good and some of the systems are fun or interesting, but the story is hollow, transparent, and interchangeable, and I feel nothing.
Loli characters.
Child/teenage protagonists.
Silent protagonists.
Harems.
Minority characters being the stereotypical big buff person or their "culture" makes them the wacky or eccentric ones.
Homophobic bullshit.
It's just a long list of stuff like this. Lolis are the fucking worst though, kid party members aren't awful if they are handled well like in FFIX. Otherwise I fucking despise them.
Child/teenage protagonists.
Silent protagonists.
Harems.
Minority characters being the stereotypical big buff person or their "culture" makes them the wacky or eccentric ones.
Homophobic bullshit.
It's just a long list of stuff like this. Lolis are the fucking worst though, kid party members aren't awful if they are handled well like in FFIX. Otherwise I fucking despise them.
"I wanna be big like you when I grow up!"
And then a "hilarious" talking around the subject as said token loli did not mean height.
Speaking of anime grunts, I snap all Miqo'te voice 5 users out of existence.
Obligatory hot springs can go bye-bye.
Lolis and harem can go too, although we can keep Krile.
Obligatory hot springs can go bye-bye.
Lolis and harem can go too, although we can keep Krile.
As though it is "anybody" who is sexualized, when it is actually women 99% of the time. I'm even angrier than I would be if it was actually evenly split sexualization.
The Anime aging effect is the weirdest of all
But also eliminate the outta-nowhere non-human cutesy mascot-type party member, who also is used as comic relief.
But also eliminate the outta-nowhere non-human cutesy mascot-type party member, who also is used as comic relief.
yes, i should have been more specific. men being sexualized is rare. but i'm sick to death of sexualization of women and girls in my games. i'm not gonna play trials of mana largely because of the character designs.
Given the constraints of the poll I was reluctant to do the child party member one. Sexualized minors or loli characters is a big no no for me and is part of the reason I can't even recommend some games I enjoy playing because they put crap like that into the games, on the other hand I actually like Child party members and story NPCs when they are done well. As mentioned before Palom and Porom were an asset and felt right for the story.
The Two tropes that I can't stand these days is the soul less fetchquests and child protagonists. One for a mechanical lore reason being the fetchquests (Why the hell am I doing these quests... i'm not playing a beggar looking for gold and I shouldnt be expected to have time to do these things... why am I forced to do them) and the other because I am not a child anymore, there are so many protagonists who are and their age ultimate breeds the worst aspects of some of the tropes being mentioned here. "Its not bad to sexualize this young girl because the protagonist is close enough in age to her!" That and the whole making people look older and more experience then they actually are, and vice versa but on a manual they are like 3 years apart...
The Two tropes that I can't stand these days is the soul less fetchquests and child protagonists. One for a mechanical lore reason being the fetchquests (Why the hell am I doing these quests... i'm not playing a beggar looking for gold and I shouldnt be expected to have time to do these things... why am I forced to do them) and the other because I am not a child anymore, there are so many protagonists who are and their age ultimate breeds the worst aspects of some of the tropes being mentioned here. "Its not bad to sexualize this young girl because the protagonist is close enough in age to her!" That and the whole making people look older and more experience then they actually are, and vice versa but on a manual they are like 3 years apart...
I like the child/younger party members usually, but have a problem with the sexualization of them. Yuffie, Relm, Rydia, Elise (ToX), Krile, Vivi, Eiko, Rikku, Karol (ToV), Rhyme (TWEWY), Aht (Radiant Historia -- i love her character but needs more clothes :< ) are all younger/child characters that come to mind that I genuinely like. Sure, I'd prefer it if they stopped doing that weird "in love with the protagonist" thing for some of them, but most of them I find to be fun characters.
When they're dressed like the Orion kids from Trails of Cold Steel? Bad. Bad bad bad.
When they're dressed like the Orion kids from Trails of Cold Steel? Bad. Bad bad bad.