I am pretty sure we don't have to worry about Sony doing much to bolster their Japanese first-party efforts ever again.
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What is your stance of Nintendo's lack of interest in buying developers?
- Thread starter Hero of Legend
- Start date
It's only an example could be any company Nintendo likes using
But, as mentioned, lots of smaller companies struggle to live pay check to pay check and could actually want to be bought so that they can invest and grow and make bigger games.
Take Relentless Software! as an example. Really well managed, no crunch, no overtime. Made the Buzz! series of games, which were smash hits, although with diminishing returns.
They struggled to find the next hit and eventually had to fold.
I think they could have added a lot of value to Nintendo, with their knowledge of quiz, multiplayer games. Exactly the kind of thing that suits their platform. With a little bit of Nintendo direction (and maybe even some sprinkling of Nintendo characters) they could have produced little board game and quiz games that is the kind of thing you need when you've not got a lot of third party variety. I imagine they'd be fairly cheap to acquire, too.
This is the kind of thinking Nintendo misses as they're so laser focused on the Japanese market.
Take Relentless Software! as an example. Really well managed, no crunch, no overtime. Made the Buzz! series of games, which were smash hits, although with diminishing returns.
They struggled to find the next hit and eventually had to fold.
I think they could have added a lot of value to Nintendo, with their knowledge of quiz, multiplayer games. Exactly the kind of thing that suits their platform. With a little bit of Nintendo direction (and maybe even some sprinkling of Nintendo characters) they could have produced little board game and quiz games that is the kind of thing you need when you've not got a lot of third party variety. I imagine they'd be fairly cheap to acquire, too.
This is the kind of thinking Nintendo misses as they're so laser focused on the Japanese market.
I don't think they're interested unless an IP is involved or the company can be used to assist with things they aren't able to do internally. And I understand that from the point of view of a company- you need to purchase something with value. Nintendo looks at long term rather than short term, so a studio with talent isn't much since the talent can leave in the long term. They would do better with contracted work like they do now.
If they were to make acquisitions it would be for IPs and studios that would make them. And since I'm not a huge fan of seeing that happen, I think best bet is doing what they're doing now while expanding their own internal studios.
If they were to make acquisitions it would be for IPs and studios that would make them. And since I'm not a huge fan of seeing that happen, I think best bet is doing what they're doing now while expanding their own internal studios.
There may be a lot of things that Nintendo might need, but another developer to make party games is real low on that list.
Relentless Software didn't have a working relationship with Nintendo, though. They developed games for Sony platforms.
Also, Nintendo already has Mario Party, which will apparently never, ever die.
Disagree. Look at the terrible Animal Crossing board game. They desperately needed people with experience in the field of party games to advise that.
Also : This 'talent can leave' stuff is only really half true. Talent may leave, but companies build up cultures and ways of working. My Relentless Software example, staff can leave, but there were certainly process around making quiz games and experience there that mean they would probably make a better quiz game than someone starting from scratch.
But it was made by the developer of Mario Party and Wii Party, who they fully own. Animal Crossing: Amiibo Festival being a bad game doesn't change that they already own the most successful developer of such games.
I'm not sure this matters. In the end they were multi-plat. Nintendo should have bought them BECAUSE they didn't already have a relationship. \
Also Super Mario Party sold shedloads. I rather Jackbox sales on Switch are good. You can sell more party games on Switch.
I don't really care. They've done a decent job of the partnerships that lead to a lot of good games, though they don't always turn out well.
They're still at risk of doing that because the games those studios make have to fit into microsoft's Long term goals like gaas and gamepass specifically. It's going to be interesting to see
I'd rather they just make more studios. Especially western studios, to work on the franchises that Japan doesn't really "get" which appeal more to the west, and make new ones. Metroid and DK sharing a studio with like 80 employees is pretty yikes, especially when one of those fanbases decides to rain on the other's parade if Retro doesn't pander to them.
I still wish they would've bought Rare though. Or at least planned better for what to do in their absence with the IPs and characters that Nintendo retained the rights to. By pretty much leaving Rare's legacy in limbo for years, they invited bad faith posters with terrible taste to weasel their way into existence, bandwagoning around shitting on everything Rare did for Nintendo and trying to call it irrelevant today. It's not even based in legitimate criticisms, it's Nintendo's "Sonic was never good" crowd.
I still wish they would've bought Rare though. Or at least planned better for what to do in their absence with the IPs and characters that Nintendo retained the rights to. By pretty much leaving Rare's legacy in limbo for years, they invited bad faith posters with terrible taste to weasel their way into existence, bandwagoning around shitting on everything Rare did for Nintendo and trying to call it irrelevant today. It's not even based in legitimate criticisms, it's Nintendo's "Sonic was never good" crowd.
Bingo.
Not expanding is a mistake and that has shown time and time again. Nintendo needs more content, the constant software droughts are really bad for their business.
Well they did buy out Rare and Silicon Knights before... I'm not sure if Nintendo is willing to invest again on Western studios, but if they do it would be to cover a particular something in a field they need. Just buying studios outright would be a wasted investment.
I felt the chemistry between Nintendo and Rare was some of the best. Next Level Games seem to be doing well, but I'd like to see more internal garage studios like the Splatoon core/Corps and other divisions that echo the old R&D1/2 rivalry that produced great spin-offs like the Wario(ware) franchise.
Don't like it. But Nintendo is very unique in how they run their business and develop games. It would be hard to find the right fit.
Frankly I think their reliance on partnerships and outsourcing(specifically their method of outsourcing) is not a winning strategy for several reasons, and recent failures such as Metroid Prime 4 and missing their hardware goals, not even counting their software drought issues over the years, are major examples of why.
We know that Nintendo does not really buy studios, they like to operate on a contract/per project basis because it is a more fiscally conservative option to creating software. They are following a common business model of paying by the drink(i.e. by need, by project), rather than by the seat(continuous cost). They operate in this fashion in both their contract studio business model, and through general outsourcing. In many ways this is smart business, you can staff up as needed for demand and staff down when demand drops off. However creating video games is not just building widgets, it's not a standardized product that has variable demand. It's a highly creative product, that requires skilled and specialized resources, and as a platform holder the demand for more software from Nintendo never really goes away. To me this creates a few problems:
We know that Nintendo does not really buy studios, they like to operate on a contract/per project basis because it is a more fiscally conservative option to creating software. They are following a common business model of paying by the drink(i.e. by need, by project), rather than by the seat(continuous cost). They operate in this fashion in both their contract studio business model, and through general outsourcing. In many ways this is smart business, you can staff up as needed for demand and staff down when demand drops off. However creating video games is not just building widgets, it's not a standardized product that has variable demand. It's a highly creative product, that requires skilled and specialized resources, and as a platform holder the demand for more software from Nintendo never really goes away. To me this creates a few problems:
- Of their contract studios, many seem unable or unwilling to appropriately increase staffing. Many of Nintendo's partners are very small studios, likely relying on outsourcing themselves to complete projects for Nintendo, or pulling resources from EPD or other Nintendo partners(Namco Bandai for example). This creates problems both in the quality of software, and the ability to complete it on time(see numerous delayed software since the beginning of the WiiU era). Notably it's Monolith, a wholly owned studio, that has truly thrived over the last decade, and yet it is still significantly smaller than Rare was at their peak under Nintendo. Where is the Monolith of US, Europe, etc.?
- Goes without saying that there is a loss of control involved here, and increasing difficulty in managing software pipelines. Normally with outsourcing and worldwide production in video games, we've seen publishers set up permanent studios around the world in addition to utilizing contract work. This seems to provide the degree of control needed, along with a more 24 hour workforce enjoyed by many industries. Comparatively Nintendo is not setting up or buying new studios anywhere, but rather just increasing their reliance on partners and contract studios. We have recently seen a new problem emerge with the cancellation of Metroid Prime 4. Nintendo has been increasingly relying on Namco Bandai as a supplementary workforce for their software, most notably Smash. However with Prime we've heard that the game was handed off to Namco, who then split development between several different studios. This is not an uncommon practice, many big pubs do it, however they usually own the studios doing the work whereas Nintendo did not, and was operating in a supervisory role. Lo and behold the game was not developed up to their standards, and had to be canned. Oops.
- Another issue is that Nintendo is at the whim of contract studios as to whether they can work on what Nintendo needs. Depending on the contract, these studios are free to work on something else. This is particularly problematic when it comes to studios like Namco Bandai and Platinum Games who very much have other priorities and goals that may or may not including putting Nintendo first in line. Look at what happened with Monster Games.
- As previously mentioned developing games requires very specialized staff, however Japan is noted as being a in big shortage resources right now. This hits Nintendo particularly hard because they make most of their games in Japan, and other than EPD or Monolith it's unlikely that any of their studios or outsourcing partners have any clout to draw in new or existing developers in comparison to the big Japanese publishers. While not entirely related to the question at hand, the fact that Nintendo has never really replaced Rare(a large, largely autonomous, western developers) is probably one of the biggest problems they have right now. Ultimately concentrating almost all of their development resources in Japan seems foolish.
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You personally might not think it's bad management, but if you're a business it is indeed bad management. Especially a multinational and also public company, yes you are being badly managed if you have nearly 4 decades worth of money to cover losses and are not investing it to grow in some way or another.
You will learn this in any finance/economics/investment class when talking about what makes a company healthy. You can read a brief guide here if you're interested. But basically the cash position of a company can be a thing that investors don't like to see in the balance sheet, since debt financing can actually be good for a company. It's all about the return of equity.
If they're gonna keep up with the partnership thing, they need to make more. The software output in the first half of 2019 was nowhere near what it should have been. They barely squeezed in Mario Maker 2. Literally 2 days before the first half of the year ends. The software output is not what it should be, or at least it should be managed better
Letting Metroid Prime 4's development get fucked in such a way they needed to scrap the entire thing and restart is the main one. Yeah, they never revealed a date but when you restart a game, that's a delay and it was a big one.
Letting Metroid Prime 4's development get fucked in such a way they needed to scrap the entire thing and restart is the main one. Yeah, they never revealed a date but when you restart a game, that's a delay and it was a big one.
They somehow just manage to get game industry vets to develop their games anyway. Like the guy behind a lot of the Goemon games, Ebisu, he's the dude at Good Feel making all the Yarn/Yoshi games. And Yasuhara, a legendary classic Sonic level designer, was doing Mario VS Donkey Kong stuff.
I hate it.
I hate it.
People really love to pretend Nintendo is doing bad (no, they aren't) because they don't have Western Independent AAA Devs making a Nintendo Uncharted (they wouldn't make it).
Good Feel games are great, so I don't see the problem.
I'm not opposed to the idea of Nintendo Acquiring Studios. I think they do a good enough job of hiring developers for their internal studios already. Most of Nintendo's internally made games are amazing in my opinion and they always seem to top the previous games. From the NES era to the present they always exceed expectations and surprise people with games like Breath of the Wild and Super Mario Odyssey. It seems the new crop of developers is coming in nicely. With I imagine a lot of the N64 era devs maybe getting close to retirement it makes sense that people will leave. I can never get behind the idea that its only the company by name. Well yea people leave, they retire, or they do something else. I understand that point of view but I don't agree with it. If any developer is better as fostering and acquiring talent it's Nintendo.
Nintendo doesn't seem to as far as I can tell have a issue with acquiring talent. Some companies such as Square have said it's hard for them to find developers and have been looking at western devs a lot lately. But I find it's also odd that Capcom has essentially shuttered all their western dev companies and ties besides Capcom USA but are coming out with great games lately. Maybe people don't want to work for Square but I have no idea on that. Nintendo doesn't seem to have that problem and if a third party dev they work with can get more funding and acquire more talent I don't see the problem with that.
But I think what I'm trying to say is Camelot give me Golden Sun 4 please.
Nintendo doesn't seem to as far as I can tell have a issue with acquiring talent. Some companies such as Square have said it's hard for them to find developers and have been looking at western devs a lot lately. But I find it's also odd that Capcom has essentially shuttered all their western dev companies and ties besides Capcom USA but are coming out with great games lately. Maybe people don't want to work for Square but I have no idea on that. Nintendo doesn't seem to have that problem and if a third party dev they work with can get more funding and acquire more talent I don't see the problem with that.
But I think what I'm trying to say is Camelot give me Golden Sun 4 please.
It's not that Nintendo "let" Metroid Prime 4 get fucked. There had to be a period where they recognized that the game wasn't coming together as it should have been, but gave Bandai Namco time to try turning it around. It obviously didn't pan out. Any other project, Nintendo might have just cancelled it and moved on, but Retro Studios provided an avenue for a second attempt at development with the caveat that they'd have to start the project over from scratch.
I really wish people would stop doing this whenever the subject of Nintendo's western developers, or lack there of, comes up. That's not what people are asking for, and it's basically just a way to shut down meaningful discussion, and is absurd when you consider how the company operated in the SNES and N64 days. Rare is/was a beloved Nintendo developer, and many others like Factor 5, Left Field, NST, etc., were all very well liked and none of them made Uncharted clones or whatever.
For games like Bayonetta 3 and Astral Chain, ultimately what does it matter if Platinum games are owned or not? Nintendo still pays all of or some form of the publishing/marketing/development budget.
I just don't see why it matters. It's not like Sony and Microsoft are leaving Nintendo in the dust for exclusives, quite the contrary.
I do agree Nintendo could use more western-focused games, but I also think people are overlooking and underestimating MUA3 as an exclusive. With that said, Nintendo should probably take the FPS genre a little more seriously as an exclusive. It's too popular to ignore, and they somehow have ignored it for 4 generations.
I just don't see why it matters. It's not like Sony and Microsoft are leaving Nintendo in the dust for exclusives, quite the contrary.
I do agree Nintendo could use more western-focused games, but I also think people are overlooking and underestimating MUA3 as an exclusive. With that said, Nintendo should probably take the FPS genre a little more seriously as an exclusive. It's too popular to ignore, and they somehow have ignored it for 4 generations.
Because people bring up the whole "buy a western studio" thing always in response to their lack of AAA games. They don't make AAA games because they don't want to, not because they lack a studio.
And they still have today a lot of developers and studios publishing more games than anyone in the industry.
Nearly half of Nintendo's published exclusives come from studios they don't own though...
Still doesn't contradict anything I posted...?
My points have been:
1. I understand but I don't agree nor support the idea of 1st party exclusive.
2. I understand but I don't agree nor support the idea of 3rd party exclusive.
3. Answering OP's question, I don't support further acquisition of 3rd party studios to increase any platform's exclusive list.
Which point are you trying to argue against?
Edit for bonus clarity: I'm a primarily PC gamer, and as most PC gamers are, we aren't that happy with exclusivity in any form. See: Steam Vs EGS. And no, don't open that can of worms here.
Why are you against companies producing exclusive content for their own platforms?
I like Nintendos stable of inhouse and partnering developers, they could possibly partner up with another western developer but outside of that I dont really see any need to acquire any more devs.
I hope you arent saying the switch is just a glorified 360
Yeah, people somehow think that the majority of Nintendo titles are internal when they're external. This happens for decades. lol
Because I don't get to play them without buying their machines, or using their platform?
Like, I do get why they do it, and I won't be unrealistically hoping for TLoU on PC or Mario on PS or something dumb like that(unless they prove me wrong, like Nintendo and their phone games). But understanding why they do it doesn't mean I'm happy with having to spend more money? How is that hard to get?
It wasent because their relationship wasent good Nintendo was straight up buying Namco piece by piece until the govt put a stop to it and in the aftermath Nintendo ended up acquiring monolithsoft
I mean, if you don't want to buy the consoles, that's perfectly fine. But it's silly to think that Nintendo, Sony, and Microsoft shouldn't make games with the aim of enticing customers to buy their hardware. That's the primary reason that first-party exclusives exist. They want to give people a reason to buy their hardware so that they can play games that they can't play anywhere else. (And Nintendo's phone games are designed first and foremost for phones; they're not console games masquerading as phone apps.)
I want Nintendo to expand there business not just into video games but TV shows and movies too.
I'm glad they're slowly moving into that industry again with the new Mario movie, there universal theme park, and mobile games.
They really should stop being conservative and buy other companies and take risks to expand.
I'm glad they're slowly moving into that industry again with the new Mario movie, there universal theme park, and mobile games.
They really should stop being conservative and buy other companies and take risks to expand.
Out of those studios you listed in the OP what would actually change if Nintendo bought them? They would still be making the games they are anyway only with less freedom to do other projects
Buying studios can make sense if there are clear benefits to both parties or the studio being acquired can't survive on their own but otherwise what's the point? Good Feel aren't going to stop making Yoshi
Buying studios can make sense if there are clear benefits to both parties or the studio being acquired can't survive on their own but otherwise what's the point? Good Feel aren't going to stop making Yoshi
You really aren't helping you argument by listening IPs heavily steeped in western cultural phenomena DK has a ton of British wit in it, the sports game were based around soccer and boxing AKA two of the biggest sports in America and Europe, Metroid is based on Hollywood thrillers (Alein in particular) which was played up in Retro's take on the franchise, etc. these games largely give off a different vibe (save for Federation Force which was heavily criticized for bucking the trend).Hell Punchout is barley a thing in Japan and was only a limited release via mail order for the longest time. Hell I'd argue in an abstract way Metroid Prime is sorta the Nintendo answer to uncharted but not as linear (gunplay via the arm canon ,stronger emphasis on story via visor lore logs,set pieces near certain areas,etc.).
I would love to see Nintendo partner with more North American and Europe based studios like Next Level Games as well as start to expand NST so they can put out some big games.
I'm still sad that Monster Games is working on Nascar shovelware instead of Donkey Kong Country Returns 3 or some other Nintendo game.
I'm still sad that Monster Games is working on Nascar shovelware instead of Donkey Kong Country Returns 3 or some other Nintendo game.
I... Eh understand that? Why is it difficult to understand that "understanding doesn't mean agreeing"? If I understand why Trump is Trump, does that mean I'm Trump or that I agree with everything he does?
I never thought they shouldn't do what's best for their businesses, but do I wish that I could play everything on my more powerful more customizable PC? Yes. But as I'm not the God of Gaming, my wish has no impact on their decision-making. Just as they're making decision that's best for them, I'm also making decision that's best for myself.
Also, I know what Nintendo phone games are, I've played them. I've only mentioned them because I was vocally saying "no way will Nintendo go mobile" back on that other forum, under a different name. All I was saying in that bracket is that I don't pretend to know what goes on in their business strategies, so for all I know, they could be publishing for other platforms right after I said they wouldn't, just like when I thought Nintendo wouldn't make a single game on phone.
Honestly yeah. Nintendo probably needs to diversify a little to avoid putting all their eggs in one basket and a company with history in the toy and video game sphere would probably have an easier time in that field. Hell Paradox Interactives ties with board game industry shows it's possible.
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This post is AAAAA+++.
Good Feel aren't gonna stop making Yoshi, but they only have about 120 staff. Alpha Dream have just over 50. These studios should be expanding. You do that with investment. You can invest in companies you own.
