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What is Your Opinion on the Kashmir Issue?
- Thread starter DosaDaRaja
- Start date
Compared to whats happening in Kashmir this is nothing. There is currently group protesting openly against government and army and had a fete in Lahore. No crackdowns no killings unlike Kashmir
Is the group in Lahore pelting stones and wrecking property in riots? I mean I'm not about to deny that there have been massive human rights violations in J&K, but you're comparing a non-violent protest to violent ones.
Meanwhile, you can hardly call Pakistan's treatment of Kashmiris in Azad Kashmir to be particularly merciful.
Mate, I am from Kashmir. My family moved from Indian side to Pakistani side in the 80's. So let me tell you Muslim Kashmiris in Pakistani sides are a lot better than on Indian side.
Yes, because your anecdotal evidence is indicative of the broader trend.
Patent nonsense, there are massive issues with sectarianism rife between the Hindu majority and Muslim communities.
And Pakistan executes people for blasphemy. Definitely both countries have problems. That's what I said.
The majority of kashmiris are siding with pakistan, India's just being very hostile in the current situation.
I'm kind of hoping the issue solves itself in the long term as Pakistan and India become more friendly and economically tied to each other (and hopefully less religious too).
I'm reluctant to hand it over to either country, because it would be a redux of Partition and a lot of people will die and there would be mass exodus. India needs to stop the human rights abuses though, that is something everyone should be able to agree on.
I'm reluctant to hand it over to either country, because it would be a redux of Partition and a lot of people will die and there would be mass exodus. India needs to stop the human rights abuses though, that is something everyone should be able to agree on.
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UN passed a resolution that a referendum should determine their future, India ignored it. While Pakistan and Kashmir support people to choose their own fate.
There isn't really a side. India has become a right wing Hindu nationalist fascist state that hates Muslims. And Kashmiris are badly oppressed by Indians, they have been for a long time, only it has gotten very bad under Modi.
Rape and murder committed by the Indian forces against Kashmiri people is fairly common. Not long ago, an 8 year old Kashmiri girl was gang raped by Indian soldiers for days, and beaten to death with a rock.
Now, even pro India NYT has admitted, the current unrest in Kashmir is due to the oppression of the locals, and not a conspiracy by Pakistan. One of the favorite sports by Indian soldiers is to blind Kashmiris by shooting their eyes out with rubber bullets. People are angry.
A whole generation of engineers, doctors, and not religious people in Kashmir hate India and want out.
There isn't really a side. India has become a right wing Hindu nationalist fascist state that hates Muslims. And Kashmiris are badly oppressed by Indians, they have been for a long time, only it has gotten very bad under Modi.
Rape and murder committed by the Indian forces against Kashmiri people is fairly common. Not long ago, an 8 year old Kashmiri girl was gang raped by Indian soldiers for days, and beaten to death with a rock.
Now, even pro India NYT has admitted, the current unrest in Kashmir is due to the oppression of the locals, and not a conspiracy by Pakistan. One of the favorite sports by Indian soldiers is to blind Kashmiris by shooting their eyes out with rubber bullets. People are angry.
A whole generation of engineers, doctors, and not religious people in Kashmir hate India and want out.
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The problem with this debate are the post in this thread, making it about both sides or, making it ambiguous. Its not. One side, the Muslims Kashmiris want to stop being oppressed, murdered and raped by Indian soldiers who are there to abuse them. They want their freedom. Its as simple as that.
The bigoted oppression of the Kashmiri people shames us. But lets be real. People don't care because Kashmiris are Muslims. Its why Era barely gives a shit too.
The bigoted oppression of the Kashmiri people shames us. But lets be real. People don't care because Kashmiris are Muslims. Its why Era barely gives a shit too.
There are Hindus and Buddhists there too, which you forgot to mention, and would be miserable under Pakistan.
Taking isolated stories and saying India is becoming a fascist state or hates all Muslims is complete bullshit. Your post actually reminds me of Trump's rhetoric against South American refugees.
I think you might be surprised. A lot of people seem to view land taken in the Mexican-American war as legitimate Mexican land, and not as land the Spanish stole from Native Americans that Mexico controlled for a brief 25 year period, and only loosely enforced their rule until colonists started taking over. The only area (after Texas broke off) that was even close to 100k people was California, and about 80% of that population was Native Americans. People don't seem to realize that the entire southwest was basically just Native Americans (plus Texas until the Texas Revolution) until American colonists started moving in. There were Hispanics yes, but their populations were quite small. When California was annexed, Hispanics were already outnumbered by other foreigners by several thousand.
The view that it was legitimate Mexican land seems to partly stem from the fact there are a lot of Hispanics in the area now. It wasn't always that way, and this is a fairly recent thing. You don't even have to go that far back to see this- look at the demographics of southwestern states from 2010 then compare it to 2000. It's a very recent phenomena.
Now most people who have internalized the situation like this aren't advocating for California to secede, but I do think elevating Mexico's claim to the land as the most legitimate is not that far removed from that.
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India occupied Kashmir is like Israel occupied Palestinian Territories.
Same killing of locals
Same draconian rules by military
Same terror acts in response to oppression
Same response to terror
India acts as the only legit democratic and stable government in region
Israel acts as the only stable government in the region
Arabs backed palestinians but have now abandoned them
Pakistan backed kashmiris and still do
Israel refuses to engage by voting in 2 state solution
India refuses to let Kashmiris vote on separation
Same killing of locals
Same draconian rules by military
Same terror acts in response to oppression
Same response to terror
India acts as the only legit democratic and stable government in region
Israel acts as the only stable government in the region
Arabs backed palestinians but have now abandoned them
Pakistan backed kashmiris and still do
Israel refuses to engage by voting in 2 state solution
India refuses to let Kashmiris vote on separation
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Completely ignorant of the reality of the fascist racist oppression committed by Indian forces against the Kashmiris. Isolated stories? Holy shit you are so uninformed.
Its a fact Modi is a facist racist who hates Muslims and encouraged mobs to kill and rape Muslims in the 90s. If you don't know this, you probably shouldn't be commenting on this. Its like his core identity, to be bigoted. Trumps rhetoric, wtf are you on about?
Its a fact his thirst for blood extends to Kashmir, and he has furthered their oppression. Doesn't really seem like you are informed on this topic at all.
Funny how in Pakistan controlled Kashmir solider aren't running rape rallies on kidnapped women. Shooting out the eyes of children as sport. Or have a leader who is literally helped mobs murder and rape civillians.
A potential referendum would allow them to vote for their own soverigntity. India prefers to rape Kashmiri women and shoot children's eyes out.
India is consistently called the most dangerous country in the world for women. Its particularly bad for Kashmiri women.
Kahsmiris deserve their freedom, like Pakistan and the wold agrees. Yet India, wants to satisfy their bloodthirst. This is a country where a war criminal like Modi is their hero.
Fact of the matter is Kashmiris hate Indian oppression and want their freedom, no matter what Modi supporters say.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kunan_Poshpora_incident#cite_note-8
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kunan_Poshpora_incident
The reaction of India, to gang rape by hundreds and hundreds of soldiers? As usual.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kunan_Poshpora_incident#cite_note-UNRefWorld_HRWWR1992_India-11
And at the moment, India is even more anti Muslim than ever. Raping girls in Kashmir is basically a past time for Indian soldiers. Extremely young girls being gang raped. This is why they are begging for the wold to help.
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Yeaaah let's not pretend for a moment now that Pakistan wants an independent Kashmir any more than India does. The last time Jammu & Kashmir was an independent state, it was Pakistan that invaded it, looting and raping the local Kashmiris they were supposed to 'liberate'.
I find the characterisation of anti-Muslim bigotry as 'racism' as gross and inaccurate. You can't be racist against a religion. A Muslim person who has converted away from the religion is not Muslim anymore. If you'd insist that's racism, then it begs the question of why black Americans don't just convert to being white.
Man, you have to be a special level of uninformed to think that Pakistan is not behind the unrest in Kashmir, even if a large part of the local opposition is fuelled by Indian atrocities.
You seem to love Wikipedia as a source, so have a good read: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pakistan_and_state-sponsored_terrorism
User banned (3 days) Inflammatory generalizations, account in junior phase
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kunan_Poshpora_incident#cite_note-8
Disgusting we actually have people here defending this. Incredible. Got some straight Nazis on reset era.
This is why Kashmiris have long ago turned against India. India is lead by one of the most brutal fascists on the planet. Modi was branded a war criminal in America and the EU and was banned from traveling there until India elected him as their leader. He literally enabled mobs to kill thousands of Muslims civilians and raped far more women than that.
Justice for Kashmiris. Freedom from India. It is a fact Kashmiris are murdered and raped en mass by Indian forces. Yes the British created it, but no one is forcing India to become a rightwing Hindu fascist state where rape and murder of Muslims is part of their way of life. Its also a fact Kashmiris do not want to be part of India.
The elephant in the room is the systematic oppression and brutalisation of the Kashmiri people by India. That is the only important issue. What Kashmiris go through is far worse than what many of the most oppressed people in the world go through.
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Deflecting blame away from India is disgusting. Nitpicking words to defend Modi and his policies is disgusting and pathetic.. Only a fool with nothing to say nitpicks the word racism and bigotry, that is a fact. To defend the brutal murder and rape of Kashmiris is disgusting.
Not sure why you are talking about Pakistan, when the oppression is done in India, by India. Fucking bizzarre. Frankly, I have no interest in interacting with nasty bigots. On my ignore list.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kunan_Poshpora_incident#cite_note-8
When it comes to Kashmir the only issue is the brutal murder and rape of Kashmiris. This is why the Kashmiris want freedom. No one is forcing Indian forces to shoot out the eyes of children as sport, or to kidnap girls and gang rape them on a frequent basis.
Again, you fail to quote where I defended the murder and rape of Kashmiris, while accusing me of doing so. You also haven't pointed out where I deflected any blame from India when I specifically called out India in a previous post.
Also... uh... you're the one who brought up Pakistan in the first place? And I was replying to that?
Bigotry goes both ways, I'm afraid, and you seem blind to your own. I do find it veeeery curious that your registration took place very shortly after a user with similar views and a similar tone got banned.
Any way, I'll leave you to spamming the thread with your single Wikipedia link, which you have already posted 3 times without additional commentary.
I cannot believe people really think a nuclear war in any form is even possible these days. That's complete bullshit.
The world is run by capitalism. No one is intrested in a nuclear war. I won't give you any benefits. No country can afford, especially if you are a smaller one, to wage a nuclear war against anyone, because
a) once that happens, you pretty much open yourself up for complete destruction by all other countries with nuclear weapons. Once you - as a country - show that you are willing to use them, all other countries will nuclear bomb you literally to oblivion because they are afraid something like that could happen to them as well.
b) Like I said, capitalism doesn't wage wars with physical weapons. They do so with money and the believe in money.
There is no chance that there will be a nuclear war in this day and age. The fear of it is absolutely irrational.
The world is run by capitalism. No one is intrested in a nuclear war. I won't give you any benefits. No country can afford, especially if you are a smaller one, to wage a nuclear war against anyone, because
a) once that happens, you pretty much open yourself up for complete destruction by all other countries with nuclear weapons. Once you - as a country - show that you are willing to use them, all other countries will nuclear bomb you literally to oblivion because they are afraid something like that could happen to them as well.
b) Like I said, capitalism doesn't wage wars with physical weapons. They do so with money and the believe in money.
There is no chance that there will be a nuclear war in this day and age. The fear of it is absolutely irrational.
I think you are wrong.
We came close many times in history. "Not giving you any benefits" isn't some bulletproof theory that shit can't happen.
Of course the prospect of nuclear war is remote, but far from impossible. There is a REAL risk it could start just by accident, like it almost did in 1994. The new hypersonic weapons Russia, China and the US are developing make the window of decision even smaller, when you have to analyse if the attack is real and to counterattack or not.
Also, governments will go really far to save face. If someone is attacked, there is a pressure to revenge or lose legitimacy. It can lead to some really ugly escalation.
It's difficult to cut through the propaganda and understand the context behind how this situation came to be. I've never really bothered to investigate in detail. I think neither country would be willing to cede any ground. It's become (always was) a matter of national pride and sovereignty, more so because the origins of the partition. It's difficult to see a resolution happening any time soon as any parties suggesting a referendum or splitting up of the region would be committing political suicide. Even if the region is split up or granted independence, I feel like extremists would not be content with the outcome and would want it unified as part of their nation. It's a mess.
Pakistan and the UN suggested both, and continue to do so. India is unwilling to entertain any notion of freedom, independence, or self-determination for the predominantly Muslim area.
By parties I meant political parties within each country. No party in India would ever dare to suggest this possibility.
That's not the whole story. For a plebiscite to take place, the UN required Pakistan to withdraw from J&K and vacate the territory it had seized during the 1947 war. Pakistan refused to budge from its spoils of war.
It's now impossible to hold a fair plebiscite for the entire state of J&K given that the demographics of Pakistan-occupied Kashmir changed over the years with migration from 'mainland' Pakistan. Meanwhile, the India-administered part of J&K has held by a constitutional article that gives Kashmiris unique privileges, preventing migration point blank.
Like I pointed out before, Pakistan was the party that invaded Jammu & Kashmir when it was independent. Their talk of referendum and self-determination is complete eyewash to attract international sympathy. Like I pointed out in my previous posts in this thread, Pakistan also cracks down on secular nationalists, separatists and Kashmiris asking for self-determination. If J&K is given independence by any means, Pakistan will stop at nothing to invade and integrate it like it did in 1947. There is literally no reason to think otherwise.
Of course, the talk of referendum is long in the past, though. At this point, nationalist propaganda in India runs so strong that the words referendum and plebiscite invite shrill cries of "anti-national" McCarthyism. India's position shifted from "We're willing to the plebiscite if Pakistan co-operates" to "Kashmir is and was an integral part of India and if you disagree, you will be lynched."
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