Provides billions of people comfort, community, purpose, and guidance. As an idea religion is great but it can be abused easily and on a massive scale.
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What is your opinion of religion as a concept?
- Thread starter CassCade
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I think religiousity/spirituality is kind of inherent in most of humanity--baked into the brain. My guess is that it's related to our sense of belonging to one's mother/clan. But if you don't have an involved mother/clan, that sense is still active/activated at times and it gives you that higher purpose/belonging feel that you probably need to thrive (e.g. Harlow's Monkeys experiment where touch/comfort from a social source or object that imitates one is required for healthy growth). And as a system for passing on social memes, mores, norms and cultural systems, archetypes and stories, it's pretty powerful.
That said, it can be and is often hijacked for more malicious or just generally selfish or stupid means. Sometimes we self-hijack and become delusional messes. Our minds and emotions are vulnerable and exploitable, so we need to be mindful and vigilant about what we want to or should believe and practice.
As for my own belief, I won't say I know that there isn't a god or higher spiritual plane, since I'm soft atheist/maybe opportunist agnostic, but I think it would be pretty fun/cool if true!
That said, it can be and is often hijacked for more malicious or just generally selfish or stupid means. Sometimes we self-hijack and become delusional messes. Our minds and emotions are vulnerable and exploitable, so we need to be mindful and vigilant about what we want to or should believe and practice.
As for my own belief, I won't say I know that there isn't a god or higher spiritual plane, since I'm soft atheist/maybe opportunist agnostic, but I think it would be pretty fun/cool if true!
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Religion is so deeply integrated into human life wherever you go that we will never be able to get rid of. It offers absolutely nothing except hate, bigotry, violence, war. It's just another layer in things you can freely hate others for.
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I feel like this view is so odd, religion is not the cause of hate, violence, war and bigotry but it can easily be used to exacerbate any of the aforementioned things.
I grew up Catholic and while I may no longer have any desire to participate in it I do not care if anyone else does. Just please keep it to yourself.
In theory it should be positive. It tries to give life meaning, make a set of rules to follow to make everyone's life better. The thing is that it just does not work. Maybe the problem is that mostly just the most aggressive and destructive religions survived (some of them were created from smaller beliefs just to have an excuse for invading other countries) and also it often makes people behave shitty.
I would say that it has a really negative impact overall and very little positive. I feel like the religion is mostly used to push some agendas, control people easier and is responsible for a lot of bad in the world throughout history. Also in my country for some reason, priests are treated as infallible for some reason which is really very dangerous. I wish people were more supportive and friendly towards each other just because it makes world a better place. But I am also a realist and believe that if all religions disappeared, we would just found another excuse to fight each other.
I would say that it has a really negative impact overall and very little positive. I feel like the religion is mostly used to push some agendas, control people easier and is responsible for a lot of bad in the world throughout history. Also in my country for some reason, priests are treated as infallible for some reason which is really very dangerous. I wish people were more supportive and friendly towards each other just because it makes world a better place. But I am also a realist and believe that if all religions disappeared, we would just found another excuse to fight each other.
I think on an individual level it can help to place at least some of the unknown onto a higher power, if it helps them from feeling insignificant in the grand scheme of everything.
Once it becomes organized you just get a bunch of people going through the motions and those in power to take advantage of everyone else. You don't need religion to live by a moral code, and in many ways a lot of that gets thrown aside as groups become larger and it devolves into us vs them.
Once it becomes organized you just get a bunch of people going through the motions and those in power to take advantage of everyone else. You don't need religion to live by a moral code, and in many ways a lot of that gets thrown aside as groups become larger and it devolves into us vs them.
I think my general opinion on religion can best be summed up with "booooooooooo.'
It's basically a way to protect ego from the frivolity of one's existence. From the nice little mom at home who doesn't want to believe she'll never see her kids again after she passes away to the sociopath who thinks he's been chosen by god to do some horrific shit. It's all kind of the same thing in the end.
It's basically a way to protect ego from the frivolity of one's existence. From the nice little mom at home who doesn't want to believe she'll never see her kids again after she passes away to the sociopath who thinks he's been chosen by god to do some horrific shit. It's all kind of the same thing in the end.
It's an inherently unnatural way of forming cultures and societies that inevitably limits one's free will no matter what form it takes. The simple fact that religion would not survive if it didn't rely on arbitrary rules being taught to impressionable children who don't have the ability to know better makes it so that I can't agree with the concept.
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I gotta ask, what is a natural way of forming culture to you. I think religion would survive without indoctrination, it may not be as widespread as it but it would survive, a lot of people choose it as adults. I am surprised to see someone who thinks otherwise.
I think religion is a telling window into human needs. People need to feel secure, valued and supported by like minded people, in control of their lives or looked after by an authority who has their best interests at heart, immunized from the fear and uncertainty of the unknown, driven by a higher purpose, and most importantly, spared the plain and clear fate of all mortal beings: death and decay.
I understand why people put their emotional needs above the pursuit of a sober picture of the world and their place in it, but I hate how religion encourages irrationality and a selective relationship with evidence.
Religion gives people a free pass to act their worst, while passing the buck to a higher moral authority, excusing their actions as a consequence of corrupt human nature, or soothing their conscience with the idea that redemption is always available.
Ultimately, religion is childish. People are afraid to die, in denial that their loved ones will be lost for good, terrified by their general lack of control, and unwilling to seriously wrap their heads around the reality of an uncaring universe where ultimate moral responsibility rests with us alone. It's sad that so many great minds were coerced by their culture and environment to keep the blinders on.
I understand why people put their emotional needs above the pursuit of a sober picture of the world and their place in it, but I hate how religion encourages irrationality and a selective relationship with evidence.
Religion gives people a free pass to act their worst, while passing the buck to a higher moral authority, excusing their actions as a consequence of corrupt human nature, or soothing their conscience with the idea that redemption is always available.
Ultimately, religion is childish. People are afraid to die, in denial that their loved ones will be lost for good, terrified by their general lack of control, and unwilling to seriously wrap their heads around the reality of an uncaring universe where ultimate moral responsibility rests with us alone. It's sad that so many great minds were coerced by their culture and environment to keep the blinders on.
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Religion as a concept is just a make believe fantasy to deal with the crippling anxiety of mortality.
As an atheist I can't really hate the people who successfully deluded themselves, the thought of mortality really does cause crippling fear. Much the opposite, I'm jealous of people who believe in an after life and that there is meaning and can therefore happily go about their life.
Institutionalized religion is a weaponization of fear to dominate other people. The Abrahamitic religions are mostly grown to dominate women, who appear naturally more susceptible to religion. It does no good for the world.
That said, this is my opinion on the concept of religion. I used to be somewhat militant about it, but precisely because our lives are excruciatingly short in a cold world, I support everyone in their pursuit of happiness (as long as they don't negatively impact others), and if people find happiness in the church, then that's something beautiful too.
As an atheist I can't really hate the people who successfully deluded themselves, the thought of mortality really does cause crippling fear. Much the opposite, I'm jealous of people who believe in an after life and that there is meaning and can therefore happily go about their life.
Institutionalized religion is a weaponization of fear to dominate other people. The Abrahamitic religions are mostly grown to dominate women, who appear naturally more susceptible to religion. It does no good for the world.
That said, this is my opinion on the concept of religion. I used to be somewhat militant about it, but precisely because our lives are excruciatingly short in a cold world, I support everyone in their pursuit of happiness (as long as they don't negatively impact others), and if people find happiness in the church, then that's something beautiful too.
I take issue with most organized religion, where no one thinks for themselves and believe what someone else says. Major offenders are organizations such as the Catholic Church. They'll teach people that certain things are "right" when they often have no basis in fact and this poison spreads to other people. People really just need to learn to think for themselves. And the thing is, I don't have an issue with believing some kind of higher power exists. I don't believe it myself, and file myself as an "agonstic atheist". I grew up in a Catholic family, and because of where I lived I just thought people's belief in god was a universal thing. It took until I got out of high school to understand that it wasn't, and that there were many people like me that thought it wasn't real. I always thought church and everything were just some ceremonial thing that people do. I realized what I was in college and felt better for it, although I did go through some hardship as a result. My then-girlfriend at the time basically started the year-long process of gaslighting me and then leaving when I told her that I didn't believe in that stuff anymore. I eventually told my parents, and they were surprisingly accepting of it, but my father really didn't want me to tell my grandmother and to keep up the charade in front of her. Eventually this went away as when I got married, we didn't have any religion in our wedding and it wasn't under the Catholic church. Everything was fine. My wife is an "agnostic theist", as she thinks there might be some kind of higher power, but not that it's necessarily Christian god or any other religion. She believes this just because it gives her peace of mind for after you die, but she rejects everything else about religion. Hell she's donating an old bible she had to Goodwill and actually told me recently how back when she was in high school, she tried to read the bible cover to cover (like most people would read a book) and the old testament pissed her off because she felt like god was a dick, and her parents told her "oh well the new testament is better". She never finished reading it.
The Catholic Church funds a lot of anti-abortion rhetoric, as well as limiting sex education. And then to top it all off they don't want their members using birth control. There's the countless cases of abuse in the Catholic Church where the Vatican just protects the offenders. At my college there was an organization that was associate with the First Assembly of God church called Chi Alpha, and they actually named themselves that to sound like a Greek organization and attract people that would normally join those to them. They were notorious for their tactics in recruiting and brainwashing people, as one of their most common deceptive practices was making friends with people new to the school (or not even necessarily new students) and inviting them to something seemingly innocent like baking cupcakes or a kickball game, and then you get there and it's a bible study. They would split men and women into these "small groups" where they would teach things like how the women should get married as soon as they can and start having children, they should "avoid ungodly men", and things like that. They did a program where they would offer people rides home from the most popular bar in the town, which is a good thing as I would rather people not drive home drunk, but it also had ulterior motives as it was in effort to recruit them to Chi Alpha. In both of these examples, I think it stems from people getting their beliefs from what someone else tells them is fact instead of coming up with it on their own, or doing their own research. It's recruit first, and don't ask questions later.
Let me reiterate that I'm not trying to go all r/atheism here, because I have no problem with people being religious. That's fine, but it's the pushing of it on other people for ulterior motives that I have an issue with. People can also practice the same religion, again, perfectly fine, but more often than not it's turned into a business. Scientology is on the extreme absolute worst point of it, but plenty of other religions aren't innocent either. I also want to say that when I say I'm an "agnostic atheist", I'm saying that I do not think a higher power exists, but I'm also saying that no one can prove that one does or does not exist either.
The Catholic Church funds a lot of anti-abortion rhetoric, as well as limiting sex education. And then to top it all off they don't want their members using birth control. There's the countless cases of abuse in the Catholic Church where the Vatican just protects the offenders. At my college there was an organization that was associate with the First Assembly of God church called Chi Alpha, and they actually named themselves that to sound like a Greek organization and attract people that would normally join those to them. They were notorious for their tactics in recruiting and brainwashing people, as one of their most common deceptive practices was making friends with people new to the school (or not even necessarily new students) and inviting them to something seemingly innocent like baking cupcakes or a kickball game, and then you get there and it's a bible study. They would split men and women into these "small groups" where they would teach things like how the women should get married as soon as they can and start having children, they should "avoid ungodly men", and things like that. They did a program where they would offer people rides home from the most popular bar in the town, which is a good thing as I would rather people not drive home drunk, but it also had ulterior motives as it was in effort to recruit them to Chi Alpha. In both of these examples, I think it stems from people getting their beliefs from what someone else tells them is fact instead of coming up with it on their own, or doing their own research. It's recruit first, and don't ask questions later.
Let me reiterate that I'm not trying to go all r/atheism here, because I have no problem with people being religious. That's fine, but it's the pushing of it on other people for ulterior motives that I have an issue with. People can also practice the same religion, again, perfectly fine, but more often than not it's turned into a business. Scientology is on the extreme absolute worst point of it, but plenty of other religions aren't innocent either. I also want to say that when I say I'm an "agnostic atheist", I'm saying that I do not think a higher power exists, but I'm also saying that no one can prove that one does or does not exist either.
How many people who use the term 'organised religion' use it as you did? I think most people say it without really thinking about it.
Why should the size of the group matter? It's possible to have a large religion without an official dogma.
Appears? That's one way to put it.
Personally, I'm not a fan of religion. But I like the positive that comes with community, and religion seems to foster that well.
But so does the foot fetish section on Reddit, so...
It's a shit idea.Beliefs don't exist in a vacuum they inform actions most impactfully when voting to limit the rights of others. Every societal health index as far as I know is inversely correlated to religiosity. I could go on but this is enough to justify throwing it in the dustbin of history.
Manipulative and controlling cults that prey on people's fear of death, they proclaim tolerance, love, understanding and peace yet instead persecute, harm, abuse and demonise all in the name of some narcissistic being that demands total subservience and unconditional worship. They're a relic of the past and the sooner they're gone (or at least fully removed from any influence in politics) the better for this world, nothing else in history has caused more war and suffering than religion.
I say this as someone that grew up going to a religious school that required us to visit the church next door for prayer and such regularly.
I say this as someone that grew up going to a religious school that required us to visit the church next door for prayer and such regularly.
I would have a much more positive opinion of the concept if it hasn't historically been used to promote bigotry and extremism.
For me religion isn't one concept but a bundle of them that fulfill a variety of possible functions.
1 it's therapy for existential and material suffering.
2 it's a set of cultural and aesthetic practices and narratives which one can be embedded in.
3 it's a set of claims about the state of things
4 it often creates hierarchical systems of power.
For me only the historical claims and the metaphysical claims can be false and the potentially harmful institutions can be struggled against. I am an atheist, but religion is more than a set of deductive arguments.
1 it's therapy for existential and material suffering.
2 it's a set of cultural and aesthetic practices and narratives which one can be embedded in.
3 it's a set of claims about the state of things
4 it often creates hierarchical systems of power.
For me only the historical claims and the metaphysical claims can be false and the potentially harmful institutions can be struggled against. I am an atheist, but religion is more than a set of deductive arguments.
It's a way of getting people to believe in an imaginary set of stakes so incredibly high that those people are then able to be manipulated into just about anything. It's disgusting.
People in crisis need therapy, not a cult.
People in crisis need therapy, not a cult.
Ha ha! It kicks ASS!! We need more religions, definitely, all of them are good and they all have a single interpretation and single possible social impact!
The problem is that religions considered as logical theories have few epistemic or metaphysical virtues. The vast majority of religions require that their adherents accept certain ontological, metaphysical or epistemic propositions that are at worst false and at best entirely unmotivated and unnecessary. In other words, they require people to engage in modes of reasoning that are entirely inconsistent with our public standards for evaluating truth. That doesn't mean they can't serve valuable sociological functions, just that people should be actively discouraged from believing their specific claims. We have better ways of adjudicating truth.
If people want to rely on religion as a source of mental comfort, then by all means use it. The issue comes into play when that religion starts being forced onto others and/or starts affecting others' ways of living.
i have a problem with any philosophy that's unwilling to accept new discoveries or that treats ancient documents as incontrovertible truth
i'm not super opposed to religion, but i'm quite intolerant of dogma
i'm not super opposed to religion, but i'm quite intolerant of dogma
I don't think the dangers and toxic mindset that come so easily with it are worth it for the community building and peace of mind that could be achieved in other ways.
Very cool art comes out of it though.
Very cool art comes out of it though.
I consider religion just a vehicle for ideas. The same religious text used to justify philanthropic works can also be used to justify genocide or holy war. In the end, it's people making the choices to do something good, or bad, then using religion to justify them.
If you could disappear Christianity tomorrow you wouldn't rid the world of bigotry, because bigotry doesn't have to make sense to exist, and people can still pass on bigoted views from parent to child even without religion, a bit harder for it to get entrenched though I admit that.
And not every religion in history was crammed full of sexism and heteronormativity. It just so happens that the most successful religions (in terms of expansion and conquest), the Abrahamic ones, were very sexist and heteronormative.
If you could disappear Christianity tomorrow you wouldn't rid the world of bigotry, because bigotry doesn't have to make sense to exist, and people can still pass on bigoted views from parent to child even without religion, a bit harder for it to get entrenched though I admit that.
And not every religion in history was crammed full of sexism and heteronormativity. It just so happens that the most successful religions (in terms of expansion and conquest), the Abrahamic ones, were very sexist and heteronormative.
I like to dabble in spirituality, but I feel organised religion has done far more harm than good for the human race. It's extremely problematic.
Organized religion, authoritarian religion, fear-based religion I can't say I'm super hot on. That said, speaking as someone that does carry around a bit of stoner pantheism, I do sympathize with some religious people and I can sometimes feel a spark of truth in broader, less prescriptive religious takes. All the commandments, the money, the shame, the corrupt power, the hate, the control, the killing of skepticism and thinking for yourself, etc. I can never get down with, but at it's best religion can speak to some deeper truths, to the ways in which we're all connected, to the inability of our limited egos here and now to comprehend the nature of life and death and what to do with that, to trying to find some deeper purpose in life than just greed and fear. People get good stuff out of religion but you have to pick out the gold from the mountains of bullshit.
Eh. Citation needed. Or at least a plausible reason as to why believing things that aren't true would be more beneficial than actually knowing what's actually happening.
Nature. Disease. Technology. Society. All benefit from understanding, not superstition
I don't believe in it and find it incompatible with my worldview and experiences.
I think some people find comfort and solace and meaning in their belief system, and I wouldn't want to take that away from them. So long as it isn't used to oppress or justify bigotry or harm to others.
I think some people find comfort and solace and meaning in their belief system, and I wouldn't want to take that away from them. So long as it isn't used to oppress or justify bigotry or harm to others.
There are many otherwise very intelligent people who believe in Judeo-Christian beliefs, so it's not a pure question of intelligence. However, it takes a certain kind of mindset to be able to break childhood indoctrination and recognize human psychological patterns that lead to people's desire to believe in things that have no evidence or proof, and depending on the type of intelligence, they simply may not have it. I try not to blame anyone for their beliefs; it's a lot to expect a person to overcome literal brainwashing early on in their lives.
This is my stance as well. Religion can be weaponized, and it's a damn effective tool at that. We are pre-wired to fall in line with the rest of the group to survive and this gives evil people pathway to control the masses.
Not really. I don't think it has ever been beneficial. It was just the product of ignorance, delusion, and greed.
