What is people’s problem with Return of The Jedi?

[mattiewheels]

I'm rewatching with the idea in my head that some people consider this a weak movie. So after the amazing first hour, after and admittedly slow but necessary conversation between Luke and Obi Wan, I'm on the speedbike scene that is just brilliant. I know that the last 30 minutes are amazing too, with the final showdown and the redemption of Vader handled really well.

I'm expecting lots of "Ewoks" replies, but even that I'm sort of into, because of the conceit of the Vietcong it was based on.

so when does this movie get as bad as I've been led to believe?

 

[John Dunbar]

it's not just ewoks, everything on endor is just kind of bleh. but it's still the third best star wars movie (and one of the three good ones).

 

[Deleted member 4260]

Everything outside of Luke and Vader isn't particularly good.

 

[mbpm]

I don't have a problem with it.

Guess there could have been more Han.

 

[Clowns]

It's my favorite Star War.

 

[DGenerator]

I'm expecting lots of "Ewoks" replies, but even that I'm sort of into, because of the conceit of the Vietcong it was based on.

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If you're already making the logical leaps to liking Ewoks because of a Vietcong conceit, you're already making huge leaps in order to pretend there aren't problems with the movie.

G-rated Vietcong. In Star Wars. Overthrowing the Empire. Toothpicks and rocks beating several technological separations of advancement.

 

[GiantEnemyCrab]

I love it.

Maybe at the time people didn't know how bad it would get (edit: with the prequels and all)? I mean, coming from Empire, it maybe was a small step down... but personally, I like the epic conclusion with awesome and iconic scenes. That space battle man...

 

[ThereAreFourNaan]

It's not as tight and streamlined as Ep 4. It's not as well written, well acted and surprising as Ep 5. Even though it's a decent film it's the weakest of the three, kinda sloppy in places but with 2 out of 3 simultaneous storylines at the end being solid to good.

 

[FFNB]

I honestly don't know and don't care. I love RoTJ, and that's good enough for me.

It's a fun movie. Not as good as Empire, but it was still entertaining, and had more than a few standout moments. The Palpatine, Vader, Luke confrontation was fantastic.

I still tear up when Vader says to Luke, "You already have." Good stuff.

I like Empire and Jedi more than A New Hope, full disclosure. Without ANH there's be no Empire or Jedi, of course, but I've rewatched those two more than I have ANH. They're all good movies, so I can't complain.

 

[BoosterDuck]

If you're already making the logical leaps to liking Ewoks because of a Vietcong conceit, you're already making huge leaps in order to pretend there aren't problems with the movie.

G-rated Vietcong. In Star Wars. Overthrowing the Empire. Toothpicks and rocks beating several technological separations of advancement.

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Clearing out the Stormtroopers so Han and Leia could turn off the Death Star's shields.

 

[Kapryov]

It used to be my favourite as a kid, and I never cared much for Ewoks back then either.

I especially loved the beginning with Jabba for some reason. I still like it.

 

[Gay Bowser]

it's not just ewoks, everything on endor is just kind of bleh.

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Everything outside of Luke and Vader isn't particularly good.

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This.

It's...fine. But for the big climactic final battle for an entire trilogy, fine really isn't enough.

And the less said about "slave Leia," the better. It's like, let's take everything about Leia's character and just throw it out.

We didn't need a second Death Star. We didn't need the revelation that another of the central characters was related to Luke. Lots of curious choices were made, and you generally get the sense that Lucas had more films planned but than decided to wrap everything up in one. Which is, of course, what happened.

 

[Deleted member 34725]

When you watch Return of the Jedi the prequels being what they were makes complete sense.

 

[mattiewheels]

This.

It's...fine. But for the big climactic final battle for an entire trilogy, fine really isn't enough.

And the less said about "slave Leia," the better.

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But the end star fight sequence/lightsaber battle were pretty mind blowing to me. I'm still watching , and in the saggy middle section with the Ewok stuff. I could see why this is the problem in people's minds.

 

[Zed]

The Jabba the Hut portion of the movie lasts way too long and the rest of the movie relies too much on a Deathstar rehash. At least the Luke/Vader/Emperor scenes are some of the best things in Star Wars.

 

[PopsMaellard]

I don't have a problem with it.

Guess there could have been more Han.

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One and done.

Always could use more 80's Harrison Ford, but would could have known!

also, empire strikes back is top 10 cinema so anything following it would have looked bad

 

[mattiewheels]

One and done.

Always could use more 80's Harrison Ford, but would could have known!

also, empire strikes back is top 10 cinema so anything following it would have looked bad

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Looking at it through the lens of ESB being so great, it's still surprisingly impressive in many ways. I'm actually not into the hammy Han in this though, ha.

 

[skeezx]

good movie, relatively lame 'grand finale'

at least that was the rub pre-ST. in retrospect it wasn't such a bad note to end on

 

[ClivePwned]

It's just not as good as the previous two, the ewoks aren't that charming if you're older than 12 and the repeat of the Death Star makes it feel a bit of a rehash of A New Hope. There was a whole other story line excised in favour of the death star (sort of like Coruscant but called something else).

It's not terrible but it doesn feel a bit more 'kiddy' and that's by design. There's a great book called Making of Return of the Jedi that goes into minute detail about the making of this that explains where Lucas's head was at when the film was made.

 

[PopsMaellard]

Looking at it through the lens of ESB being so great, it's still surprisingly impressive in many ways. I'm actually not into the hammy Han in this though, ha.

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I fully agree, it does so much right and (at least for me) even things like the Jabba intro adds to the world built immersion. That said, I do also love hammy, popcorn Han.

 

[Bishop89]

No problem with it except ewoks are lame

 

[Genesius]

The Leia sister thing feels like a plot twist for the sake of trying to one up ESB.

The Ewoks are dumb.

Han has absolutely nothing to do once he's rescued that requires him to be Han. It's obvious they had originally planned for him to die until Lucas shot it down.

Boba Fett is the chump to end all chumps.

 

[Heelpop]

Everything outside of Luke and Vader isn't particularly good.

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[Ecotic]

There's just something about the combination of the tone, pacing, and the forward momentum (or lack thereof) that feels really off. More than the Ewoks, more than the Death Star rehash, more than Harrison Ford no longer caring, there's just something wrong with the intangibles that leave you feeling not as engrossed in what's happening until the throne room. In Empire you're 100% engrossed from the very beginning, and then in RotJ you're not.

Empire is going like 80 mph at the very end, then RotJ starts very slow. It's jarring. I've often thought RotJ should have opened with a high-paced chase to retrieve Han from Boba Fett on some distant planet before he had gotten to Tattooine, and then the movie can take a breather when all three are reunited and build from there.

 

[Gundam]

All of Endor sans the speeder bikes is boring and Tatooine just evokes emotions of ?????

Harrison Ford might as well not speak for the whole thing and Leia is written as a completely different and weird character.

The music is good but it feels it's like 1 theme for the whole score

 

[mattiewheels]

Reminder that George wanted David Lynch to direct this, lol.

 

[Deleted member 31817]

I don't mind Endor/the Ewoks as a concept, the issue is it takes too much screentime and it's clear they had no idea what they wanted to do with Han and Leia because they spend like an hour just at that one bunker.

The opening is neat for Luke's reveal but then it kinda drags and gets too silly.

Has an amazing climax though.

 

[uncelestial]

It's got too many Muppets, entirely un-novel settings/environments, and rehashes the Death Star blowing up. And tere's something kinda boring about it, I'm not sure if it's pacing or what -- just to cite one thing, you certainly get tired of Han and Leia... This mixes poorly with the goofiness.

Ewoks punking laser-rifle-bearing, hoverbike-riding Stormtroopers with logs and rocks is like some kinda redneck muppet Home Alone bullshit

 

[Jinroh]

The Endor part is way too childish.

 

[Deleted member 4260]

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Was just referring to Luke and Vader's story as a whole in my post, and that includes Palps as well.

 

[poptire]

I was conceived after my parents went on a date to see Return of the Jedi so it is relevant to me. But it's the weakest of the OT.

 

[xaosslug]

who has a problem with RotJ? I *LOVE* the Ewoks. Literally the best thing about Star Wars, imo.

 

[Tomasoares]

The movie sucks:

- Ewoks
- Boring final space battle
- Vader desconstructed
- Han does nothing
- Second Death Star
- Leia sister of Luke
- Tatooine again, with a very slow intro and a convoluted plan to rescue Han.

It's not terrible prequel levels, but I found it to be disappointing. ANH, ESB, TFA and TLJ are much better films.

 

[Osahi]

Everything outside of Luke and Vader isn't particularly good.

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This.

All the rest lacks real story. It's people just doing stuff, without any effect or revelation about their character. Its bqd storytelling.The reveal like Leia's lineage has no real effect on the character's at all for instance. It just happens without it having any significance

 

[IDreamOfHime]

Space Nazis taken down by Teddy Bears.

 

[half a moon]

I wanna fuck one of the teddy bears

 

[Hours Left]

There ain't no problem.

Ewoks are amazing.

Yub Nub for life.

 

[PHOENIXZERO]

Was my favorite of the three as a kid but it was the first real sign of George's change in priorities.

 

[Team_Feisar]

Luke, Vader & Emperor Parts are some of my favorite Scnees in all of SW but I agree with all of the criticisms already posted. I also want to add the whole makes very little sense. And I know we are talking about a space Opera for kids. Luke's Plan to save Han makes absolutely zero sense if you try to think about it, just as the Ewoks being able to defeat the Empire with their weapons is a good idea but terribly unbelievable. I know that suspension of disbelief is a thing, but stuff in the movie happens so randomly that I personally find it hard to feel immersed in the plot and relate to the emotions of the Characters. Things just happen, whereas in Empire you felt an encroaching dread because everything that happened made sense and could be anticipated.
Again, Throne Room Stuff excluded.

 

[Mr Swine]

Still don't get it why Palps thought it was smart to "leak" the Death Star 2 to the rebels when the only goddamn thing protecting it is on Endor

 

[Psamtik]

It drags like hell, but the moment when Luke starts hacking away at Vader as if he's actually going to kill him is the best character beat in the series.

 

[Cup O' Tea?]

I liked it. The ewoks are my only complaint really. Wookies would have been cooler.

Ironically, I quite enjoyed the ewoks movies and cartoon as a kid though.

 

[Randam]

If you're already making the logical leaps to liking Ewoks because of a Vietcong conceit, you're already making huge leaps in order to pretend there aren't problems with the movie.

G-rated Vietcong. In Star Wars. Overthrowing the Empire. Toothpicks and rocks beating several technological separations of advancement.

Click to shrink...

Overthrowing the empire?
They beat a few stormtroopers.

 

[Sordid Plebeian]

It was pretty disappointing, very average. Aside from the hyperbolic title, this is a good piece on it:

 

[Deleted member 31817]

The movie sucks:

- Ewoks
- Boring final space battle
- Vader desconstructed
- Han does nothing
- Second Death Star
- Leia sister of Luke
- Tatooine again, with a very slow intro and a convoluted plan to rescue Han.

It's not terrible prequel levels, but I found it to be disappointing. ANH, ESB, TFA and TLJ are much better films.

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Vader deconstructed is one of the best parts of the OT

 

[Radogol]

As already mentioned my main issues are:

- Following a Death Star with a second Death Star. A galaxy of imagination!
- The Leia twist comes out of nowhere and doesn't even make sense. Kind of like Rey's heritage.

Other than that, it's pretty fun and the Luke/Vader/Emperor stuff is all absolutely golden.

 

[Keldroc]

When you watch Return of the Jedi the prequels being what they were makes complete sense.

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Yup. Nonsense plotting, scattered story structure, lack of things for the characters to do at the expense of the story Lucas really wants to tell (Luke/Vader), the Death Star again is ridiculously dumb and lazy, and Leia being Luke's sister is an absolute ass-pull that never worked and never will. RotJ isn't bad by any stretch but it's by far the weakest of the OT and was a huge letdown after Empire at the time.

 

[HeavenlyOne]

Ewoks are great! Fuzzy little murder machines, they were totally going to eat our heroes.

 

[sir_crocodile]

It's odd because the throne room confrontation is the best thing ever in star wars, but the ewoks vs imperials was the worst thing ever in star wars at the time. Of course, every star wars film since then has worse scenes then that so it looks better by comparison now lol

 

[GiantEnemyCrab]

nevermind