I dunno. Some guy who has literally never played it has been remaking it for PC and it actually looks pretty fun???
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What games have damaged their own franchise as badly as Sonic 06?
- Thread starter It’s Time To Go
- Start date
part of it is personal preference, of course. looks fun, but so did the killer whale level in adventure. Then you had to play the rest of the game
can't kill that which is already dead
My Sonic 06 was FFXIII. Despite liking it to an extent, it was the beginning of the end for not being excited for new FF games. I even took forever to get around to playing FF7r and did it by buying a cheap second hand copy that hadn't been used for the PS5 upgrade lol. Game was a step in the right direction again, but they also did a good job of turning an impactful tightly designed sequence in a classic game into a jpop soap opera with all the requisite padding and boring content you'd expect with some truly awful thematic changes. Series feels like Kingdom Hearts or something for me now, just could not care less, seems aimed at a demographic I don't relate to. I tried with XIV, got through ARR and a bit of the next part but I just lose interest in MMO's. Hoping XVI turns things around, but the trailers creative direction does not give me hope.
SimCity 2013 immediately comes to mind. It gave you a ridiculously small plot of land to build a city in, at launch it required an internet connection (ostensibly for "cloud-computing" reasons until that was proven to be bullshit), it had hilariously bad AI pathing (cars would drive home from work to the first empty home they found along the way, etc), and a host of other crazy problems.
Then Cities Skylines came by and completely ate EA's lunch. The game absolutely dominates the city-builder genre, and they did so by making basically the exact sort of thing that SC2013 should have been in the first place. There hasn't been a SimCity since Skylines' release in 2015...and it's pretty easy to see why.
Then Cities Skylines came by and completely ate EA's lunch. The game absolutely dominates the city-builder genre, and they did so by making basically the exact sort of thing that SC2013 should have been in the first place. There hasn't been a SimCity since Skylines' release in 2015...and it's pretty easy to see why.
Agree but sometimes personal taste can also hint at why things got worse after that if at all
In reality, the success of Sea of Thieves killed all Rare's single player IPs
Sega is to this day absolutely mortified at how Sonic 06 was received. It's the primary reason why they're so gunshy to actually invest into their Sonic titles and have no idea what to do with it, because they're scared straight of returning to their one truly winning 3D formula, the Adventure-style games. Sega had major plans for the franchise coming off Sonic 06 and literally everything was torn down and burned with its (and Secret Rings's to a lesser extent) failure. Unleashed was a last gasp to course correct but the damage was already done and Sonic Team didn't have the time and resources necessary to make more than half a real Sonic game (thus the ill-advised inclusion of the Werehog)
They even tried doubling down on the Generations formula with Forces since Generations ended up doing quite well, but it didn't stick. It remains to be seen what Sonic Team does with Frontier but as long as the Sonic 06 disaster is fresh on their minds I'm afraid for whether they've put forth the time and resources needed.
They even tried doubling down on the Generations formula with Forces since Generations ended up doing quite well, but it didn't stick. It remains to be seen what Sonic Team does with Frontier but as long as the Sonic 06 disaster is fresh on their minds I'm afraid for whether they've put forth the time and resources needed.
The revisionist history in regards to the Adventure games is so telling. Y'all really aren't hiding your shitposts anymore, huh?
Nothing revisionist about it. That's always how I felt about the Adventure games. Still do.
Sonic 06 killed my Sonic fandom. I almost bought a 360 for the game.
It wasn't until Generations I got back into the series and caught up. To this day 2006 is the only mainline Sonic I haven't beaten.
It wasn't until Generations I got back into the series and caught up. To this day 2006 is the only mainline Sonic I haven't beaten.
Eh... while it definitely sold, and I thought there's definitely stuff to like about it, between how big its budget was, how poorly received it was, and how despite selling well it still disappointed, I'd say it definitely was bad. Enough for Capcom to put the series on ice, release a budget sidegame or two, and go in a completely different direction for the next game.
I mean, that's a matter of personal opinion. Personally despite the animeisms, I overall thought that the game had just as much of the mystique as 1 and X in its own way, especially towards the second half of the game. Objectively speaking, I'm not really sure why you're implying that it's a Sonic 06 tier disaster as aside from being the bestselling game in the series, it was generally well received both critically and from the majority of fans unless you somehow think Era represents a significant portion of the fanbase. The game also went on to receive a two in one representative(s) in Smash Bros. Ultimate for its DLC so it's clear that Nintendo and Sakurai both think highly of the game.
Sonic 06 is often lambasted for its high degree of glitches and general gameplay design that simply doesn't work very well on top of the poorly executed story. Most of the criticisms I see related to XBC2 are in regards to certain character designs and some gameplay aspects that didn't gel well with some, including yourself. Hardly Sonic 06 level issues that damaged the franchise to its core.
Two come to mind right away.
F.E.A.R. 3. Game has been changed to a more arcade style shooter, lot of the levels just include combat arenas, story is bad, everything about it is bad and boring. It may just have been the final injury though. F.E.A.R. 2 was almost as terrible.
Red Faction 2 & Red Faction: Armageddon. The former missed all the reasons the first was fun, and figured the only thing people liked was blowing up objects and vehicle sections. Gone is the fun revolutionary aspect, you're just a super soldier who's unstoppable. The latter by deciding a game build on destroying stuff should be set mostly in caves, you know, stuff you can't destroy too well.
F.E.A.R. 3. Game has been changed to a more arcade style shooter, lot of the levels just include combat arenas, story is bad, everything about it is bad and boring. It may just have been the final injury though. F.E.A.R. 2 was almost as terrible.
Red Faction 2 & Red Faction: Armageddon. The former missed all the reasons the first was fun, and figured the only thing people liked was blowing up objects and vehicle sections. Gone is the fun revolutionary aspect, you're just a super soldier who's unstoppable. The latter by deciding a game build on destroying stuff should be set mostly in caves, you know, stuff you can't destroy too well.
Even as someone new to the series, Turok 2008 was terrible. I can only imagine how bad it was for fans of the series.
It's probably still too early to tell for sure (considering Battlefront 2 made a decent recovery) but Battlefield 2042 took all the momentum it had and came to a complete stop.
I really hope that they can recover but hoo boy, they dug themself in deep so far.
But one can hope
I really hope that they can recover but hoo boy, they dug themself in deep so far.
But one can hope
Most are not but Command and Conquer 4 was utterly shite. 3 and RA3 were still decent, not as good as TS or RA2 but still ok. C&C4 was just an awful, awful company of heroes rip off and it sucked.
Ironically it was 06 being so shit that it got me to buy my first non Nintendo console with the 360. I just had to play it for myself lmao
Real talk:
Adventure already did the damage people associated with '06.
Single-handedly killed my interest in most Sonic games by pivoting away from the fantastical Wonderland-esque playground on Sonic's alien planet to...whatever the hell the world of the 3D games is.
Also the gameplay is nothing special.
Adventure already did the damage people associated with '06.
Single-handedly killed my interest in most Sonic games by pivoting away from the fantastical Wonderland-esque playground on Sonic's alien planet to...whatever the hell the world of the 3D games is.
Also the gameplay is nothing special.
Citing Xenoblade 2 as a franchise-ruiner is a heck of an assertion given that it's been followed up by a big standalone expansion, a remake of the original (complete with a new expansion of its own) and a full-fledged sequel all within five years.
Anyway, I suppose I'll stick with my avatar and point out Sega's attempted ressurrection of Sakura Wars. The PS4 game eschewed the strategic turn-based combat the series was built upon and had an unsatisfying plot. Then the anime that followed-up the game (why do this?) bombed, the mobile game was a disaster, and the stage shows suffered massive delays due to 'rona. But hey, could be worse. At least it didn't land like Xenoblade 2. Eh? Eh?
Anyway, I suppose I'll stick with my avatar and point out Sega's attempted ressurrection of Sakura Wars. The PS4 game eschewed the strategic turn-based combat the series was built upon and had an unsatisfying plot. Then the anime that followed-up the game (why do this?) bombed, the mobile game was a disaster, and the stage shows suffered massive delays due to 'rona. But hey, could be worse. At least it didn't land like Xenoblade 2. Eh? Eh?
I quite like 3, had they dig in and expanded on it I think the series might have worked but 4 has will this do? energy.
Sonic 06 is an oxymoron of an entity because despite being near-unanimously agreed upon to be bad by fans and critics alike, the game sold decently and the series has carried on to this day. But, Sega is deathly scared of certain things that even hint at the game's "aesthetic," even if they were present and generally well-received in other Sonic games. The game also has maybe cast a long-term shadow over its franchise where people dismiss the whole series out of hand. So in that regard, it maybe did the most (non-lethal) damage to its IP despite objectively less awful games stopping their respective franchises in their tracks.
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Truthfully, SFIII alone didn't destroy Capcom's arcade division. The arcade market outside Japan receding probably did more to put an end to that. Capcom really just spread the Street Fighter brand too thinly by the late 90s.
The PS2 Crash games were generally decently received by critics and sold well. It would've probably been allowed to just quietly continue as a mid-tier series of games if not for the ever-shifting hand-offs between management and developers. "Damage" to what was once a former Mario rival? Yeah, maybe. I'll concede that. But not enough to kill a franchise without outside interference. The IP was put on ice in the early 2010s due to difficulties Radical Entertainment had with developing its next game before the studio was downsized in 2012. Also, Activision probably did not have much interest in a franchise that sort of fell into its laps after absorbing Sierra, until Sony waved some money in management's face and reminded them that they were sitting on a nostalgic goldmine of the PlayStation 1 variety.
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At the time when the first Adventure released it at least felt like that Sonic had a "succesful" transition into 3D, a thing that some old IPs were struggling with. But that's that.
Comparing Sega's most important franchise with Nintendo's... 8th?
Other M has problems but it is nowhere near the trainwreck that is Sonic 06. That said, Sonic 06 is the more entertaining game.
sonic 06 had good music and a better story than metroid other m (admittedly not a hard feat)
sonic 06 2
other m 0
objective scoring done here, folks
2012 Syndicate.
Has repurposing an old IP into something completely different just for cheap marketing points ever worked?
Has repurposing an old IP into something completely different just for cheap marketing points ever worked?
Yeah, this is another thread that makes me wonder about the reading comprehension of several people on this site. As per what's stated on the OP: No, a game you personally don't like is not the same as a game that caused damage to a franchise. If most of the public or the fanbase liked it, it reviewed well and/or it sold well, then it definitely didn't damage the franchise!
Regardless of how you might personally feel about Xenoblade 2 or BotW, those games definitely didn't damage their respective franchises!
Now, a highly divisive or poorly received game might indeed cause damage to a franchise, but that really depends on a number of factors.
Honestly, the first thing that came to mind upon reading the OP were indeed games that can be considered franchise killers and that have already been mentioned: Mega Man X7, Sim City 2013, Dino Crisis 3, Dead Rising 4, both Tony Hawk Ride and Pro Skater 5.
Sonic 2006 is an interesting case in that sense because, as have also been mentioned, it sold decently and didn't actually kill it's own franchise (which has been surprisingly resilient and survived several divisive to outright terrible games that would have put any other franchise on ice). It can't be denied however that it's shadow (heh) still looms large over the franchise in general, both in terms of public perception and how Sega has approached its games going forward.
Now, one game that I haven't seen mentioned yet in the thread but that definitely fits is Final Fight Streetwise. It's probably one of the most infamous examples of trying to follow then industry's current trends only to fall flat on its face and kill what was once a venerable franchise. Worst of all it's that IIRC Capcom passed over a more traditional updated take on the franchise in favor of producing that dud.
Regardless of how you might personally feel about Xenoblade 2 or BotW, those games definitely didn't damage their respective franchises!
Now, a highly divisive or poorly received game might indeed cause damage to a franchise, but that really depends on a number of factors.
Honestly, the first thing that came to mind upon reading the OP were indeed games that can be considered franchise killers and that have already been mentioned: Mega Man X7, Sim City 2013, Dino Crisis 3, Dead Rising 4, both Tony Hawk Ride and Pro Skater 5.
Sonic 2006 is an interesting case in that sense because, as have also been mentioned, it sold decently and didn't actually kill it's own franchise (which has been surprisingly resilient and survived several divisive to outright terrible games that would have put any other franchise on ice). It can't be denied however that it's shadow (heh) still looms large over the franchise in general, both in terms of public perception and how Sega has approached its games going forward.
Now, one game that I haven't seen mentioned yet in the thread but that definitely fits is Final Fight Streetwise. It's probably one of the most infamous examples of trying to follow then industry's current trends only to fall flat on its face and kill what was once a venerable franchise. Worst of all it's that IIRC Capcom passed over a more traditional updated take on the franchise in favor of producing that dud.
If anything, that should go to the game that eventually released as "The Bureau: XCOM Declassified". A competent-but-unremarkable TPS whose announcement was so poorly received that it revitalized the old IP that was being milked.
Syndicate was at least a good FPS with a fun coop mode.
I'll try to stick with the nature of the beast but some of y'all's opinions are just really based upon lack of reading comprehension...
On the topic I'll say NiGHTS: Journey of Dreams. Personally I enjoyed it because it was always part of me that said that I would get a sequel no matter what if it was just good demo or just a few little points of concepts but the reality was simply this:
A very misdirected game, ported from Xbox or PS3 and downgraded to the Wii (there were interviews showing some definite high definition screenshots and then all of a sudden the character models were squished closer to release).
Although I still will say the Nightmaren designs were very fantastic I will say there were a lot of side quests as well as the kid models who were put as a direction of realism rather than the cartoony versions like Claris and Elliot. And didn't translate well.
They believe sold maybe a hundred thousand altogether... But besides the re-port of the PS2 version and an update that came later that thankfully fixed some of the initial controls, and yes they were bad coming from the Saturn, I really don't think we would see NiGHTS again until something else comes up...
At least we have the search for Selph/Self still!
On the topic I'll say NiGHTS: Journey of Dreams. Personally I enjoyed it because it was always part of me that said that I would get a sequel no matter what if it was just good demo or just a few little points of concepts but the reality was simply this:
A very misdirected game, ported from Xbox or PS3 and downgraded to the Wii (there were interviews showing some definite high definition screenshots and then all of a sudden the character models were squished closer to release).
Although I still will say the Nightmaren designs were very fantastic I will say there were a lot of side quests as well as the kid models who were put as a direction of realism rather than the cartoony versions like Claris and Elliot. And didn't translate well.
They believe sold maybe a hundred thousand altogether... But besides the re-port of the PS2 version and an update that came later that thankfully fixed some of the initial controls, and yes they were bad coming from the Saturn, I really don't think we would see NiGHTS again until something else comes up...
At least we have the search for Selph/Self still!
"Sonic 06 has a better story than Other M" has to be the most backhanded compliment and im not even sure its quantifiable.
I unironically enjoy F.E.A.R 3 but as final canon entry it sucks. Pity we didńt get a resolution boost on XsX.
Star Wars Battlefront franchise is basically cursed at this point to never reach a 3rd entry.
Also Deus Ex Mankind Divided, game came right out of the gate with the tiered preorder debacle which in my opinion gave the game a stink it never really got off by release. Ended up selling under expectations and now the franchise seems like its put on ice for the time being.
Also Deus Ex Mankind Divided, game came right out of the gate with the tiered preorder debacle which in my opinion gave the game a stink it never really got off by release. Ended up selling under expectations and now the franchise seems like its put on ice for the time being.
Megaman Battle Network 4.
It did sell the most out of the series due to intense marketing and riding on that 'one of the best RPGs ever on the GBA' wave that 3 brought. But it's pretty telling when 5 only gets about half the sales that 4 did (when MMBN was one of the rare series that had each entry selling more than the previous, up until the jump from 4-5 happened), and you have tons of people not giving 6 a chance (despite many in the fandom considering it to be as good, if not better than 3) because of the damage that 4 did to the series' reputation.
The worst part is that MMBN was originally supposed to be a trilogy, so 4 only happened because the executives decided to drag the series on way longer than it needed (plus the MMBN games had about a 1 year dev cycle, so 4 was probably super rushed as a result of the sudden decision to keep the series going). It's also the only game in the series with an actual NG+ mode, because it expected you to play through the main campaign 3 times in order to even access all of the post-game content.
But at least we got 6 out of it, in the end.
It did sell the most out of the series due to intense marketing and riding on that 'one of the best RPGs ever on the GBA' wave that 3 brought. But it's pretty telling when 5 only gets about half the sales that 4 did (when MMBN was one of the rare series that had each entry selling more than the previous, up until the jump from 4-5 happened), and you have tons of people not giving 6 a chance (despite many in the fandom considering it to be as good, if not better than 3) because of the damage that 4 did to the series' reputation.
The worst part is that MMBN was originally supposed to be a trilogy, so 4 only happened because the executives decided to drag the series on way longer than it needed (plus the MMBN games had about a 1 year dev cycle, so 4 was probably super rushed as a result of the sudden decision to keep the series going). It's also the only game in the series with an actual NG+ mode, because it expected you to play through the main campaign 3 times in order to even access all of the post-game content.
But at least we got 6 out of it, in the end.
It's a hard question to answer because I'm not really a fan of other games like I am Sonic so the 1, 2 punch of 06 followed by Unleashed was some heavy damage to my soul like nothing else. Colours and Generations tried to smooth over the cracks but it's like trying to fill a casm with a bucket of cement. Now the good games are an exception rather than the rule.
I'm going to throw Sonic 4 in the mix as well. We'd had two big budget failures and Sonic 4 was marketed as a return to the series roots and a direct sequel to Sonic 3 & Knuckles. What we got was a polished up mobile game with wonky physics and touch screen gimmicks. If they'd have called it anything else it wouldn't have mattered but invoking the classics like that was pure evil.
Sonic 4 episode 1 poisoned the well so much that the decent but unfortunately named Sonic 4 episode 2 suffered as a result and killed any enthusiasm for an episode 3.
I'm going to throw Sonic 4 in the mix as well. We'd had two big budget failures and Sonic 4 was marketed as a return to the series roots and a direct sequel to Sonic 3 & Knuckles. What we got was a polished up mobile game with wonky physics and touch screen gimmicks. If they'd have called it anything else it wouldn't have mattered but invoking the classics like that was pure evil.
Sonic 4 episode 1 poisoned the well so much that the decent but unfortunately named Sonic 4 episode 2 suffered as a result and killed any enthusiasm for an episode 3.
Typical Era lol, never missing an opportunity to hate on successful games that they just don't happen to like.
Anyway, Sonic '06 is a weird one. Despite the series having a fair amount of bad titles littering its entire history, this was the game that effectively imprisoned the series in mediocrity. Everything Sega did in the years following was a flailing attempt to desperately course correct from that game, which led to a lot of really terrible entries, and a few decent ones that they mostly immediately moved on from for some odd reason. '06 never killed the series though, which has proven to be absurdly resilient through the years. It was certainly extremely damaging however, though I guess you could describe the effect this game had on the series was like a lingering poison or cancer, but it wasn't fatal.
SimCity 2013 deserves special mention as the game that killed both the SimCity series and the original Maxis studio in one fell swoop. You could even argue that it also killed the city management sub-genre altogether, as the game that looted SimCity's crown, City: Skylines, isn't really a deep management game at all. There's nothing new out there that scratches that same itch that SimCity 4 did.
Metroid: Other M is another obvious game since it put the Metroid series into a long coma, with a brief Simpsons-style awakening for Federation Force before immediately losing consciousness again. It seems like Nintendo is still tentatively feeling out where to take the series now that they've managed to successfully revive it.
People comparing Xenoblade 2 to Sonic 06...
This might seem crazy to you, but I've had Xenoblade 2 for a long time in my Switch but I have yet to play it and this post of yours might be the one that actually start to play the game, ahahahah.
Sonic was already dead when '06 came out. The problem is Sega forgot what made Sonic a good game, and decided it was all about speed, which it was *never* about. Even the very first Sonic game punished you for going too fast, and had platforming levels that expected you to explore them slowly and methodically. '06 made an already bad reputation worse by trying to turn it into an adventure game with a deep story.
Yeah this.
I didn't know it was possible to make a racing game utterly inexplicable, but they managed it.
This is the most depressing post I've read. Series deserved better.
I enjoyed the have, but it's a shame that Soulcalibur never really recovered from Soulcalibur V.
Also Street Fighter x Tekken killing Namco's Tekken vs Street Fighter.
Marvel vs Capcom Infinite.
Also Street Fighter x Tekken killing Namco's Tekken vs Street Fighter.
Marvel vs Capcom Infinite.
You should
The anime tropes can be very annoying but its still a very good game with a very good story. If your a fan of xenoblade 1, itll be even better
Original Maxis shuttered in 2004, after the SC4: Rush Hour expansion was released.
