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What games don't reward exploration?
- Thread starter Blizz
- Start date
It's not worth my time to jump into the
At this point, I should expect it by now. I still enter a thread optimistic about its prospects, only for it to be a Hollow Knight debate thread, a BotW debate thread, or a Last Jedi debate thread.
At this point, I should expect it by now. I still enter a thread optimistic about its prospects, only for it to be a Hollow Knight debate thread, a BotW debate thread, or a Last Jedi debate thread.
What about the opposite, does it count? Cause I feel like games such as Horizon or classic Assassin's Creed games contantly 'reward' you with minor shit but I'd hardly describe running around in their maps as 'exploring' because there is almost nothing new to see after the first few hours and you just grab whatever comes in your way to the next waypoint..
Depends on ones definition on exploration, I guess.
Depends on ones definition on exploration, I guess.
Mafia 2
The game did not need to be open world, it would have benefited greatly from a more linear progression. The open world mearly padded out the game time and let you look for Playboy posters.
The game did not need to be open world, it would have benefited greatly from a more linear progression. The open world mearly padded out the game time and let you look for Playboy posters.
Wind Waker.
It has a beautiful, intriguing world, sets up a whole potential navigational system by having landmarks be visible on the horizon, then ruins any feeling of mystery by dividing the map into grid squares and allocating one island or major feature per square; then making you pay NPCs to fill in those squares rather than allowing the player to discover islands themselves.
It's a great game, but it literally reduces exploring the open sea to a box-ticking exercise.
It has a beautiful, intriguing world, sets up a whole potential navigational system by having landmarks be visible on the horizon, then ruins any feeling of mystery by dividing the map into grid squares and allocating one island or major feature per square; then making you pay NPCs to fill in those squares rather than allowing the player to discover islands themselves.
It's a great game, but it literally reduces exploring the open sea to a box-ticking exercise.
L.A. Noire is the poster child of this for me. There's nothing the game could really reward you with, considering it's an adventure game. I honestly don't know why it exists, other than to pad out the game and "lol we do open worlds".
I'm not sure I would consider it exploring if they mark the stuff on your map.
Yeah this was really off-putting. I mean Bloodborn was already pretty limited since you have only a few weapons and armor that is basically the same in another variant, but Sekiro dropped the balls here. Big part of the reason why I don't really like Sekiro. No build variety nothing. The lack of RPG elements made it devoid of replayablity, rewarding exploration and most of the fun I otherwise have with Souls game.
There are so many things to discover in BOTW though. From Eventide Island, to the labyrinths, the different villages, location names referencing older Zelda games, the different creatures/environments, and the environmental shrines.
You're not alone in this, but what is this burning desire everyone has to criticize that game at every opportunity? There are literally thousands of games that have less to discover than BOTW, but multiple ppl think of that game first when answering this question? Not Daemon X Machina, Steamworld Quest, or God Eater 3. BOTW, the carefully crafted open world that incentivizes climbing every mountain and overturning every rock.
OP
OP
And why does it matter if the player misses something on their first playthrough? That way every single game would be linear with a straigth path, why diverge if the player won't check the surroundings?
No More Heroes, 100%
As for the rest of the mentioned games in this thread, the fact that the rewards for exploration are bad in some of these games and you don't like them doesn't negate their existence. BoTW rewards exploration, even if you personally feel like the rewards are lackluster
As for the rest of the mentioned games in this thread, the fact that the rewards for exploration are bad in some of these games and you don't like them doesn't negate their existence. BoTW rewards exploration, even if you personally feel like the rewards are lackluster
I feel like there's only so many truly unique things an open world game can give you behind every nook and cranny and around every corner. I honestly feel like some of the things certain people expect to find on a regular basis can be a bit unreasonable.
Yeah, exploration is Xenoblade's thing and 2 just shit all over it. A lot of the time you would go back to the skill-wall that blocked you only to reveal and identical skill-wall of a higher level. After awhile I just stopped bothering.
Pretty sure I haven't mentioned BotW in months on Era, if not longer, so seems a bit of an odd question to direct at me...or even most individuals. A game that's one of the highest rated is naturally going to draw a more critical eye.
I absolutely love the Zelda BotW answers, clearly shows how little people remember about prior 3D Zelda games.
WW had a vast sea with NOTHING in it.
TP has an overworld that is far too big for the amount of relevant content it has.
SS is so gated you can't even explore anything.
But the game that's all about exploration is really the best example out there...
WW had a vast sea with NOTHING in it.
TP has an overworld that is far too big for the amount of relevant content it has.
SS is so gated you can't even explore anything.
But the game that's all about exploration is really the best example out there...
That's kinda the point for people. It's only natural people would be more focused on the game focused on exploration if they feel it didn't do it well.
Came to post this so seconding it. I just hate how the mechanics push against exploration because there are timers in missions and you encounter wild BTs and take timefall damage so much - you actively don't want to explore. No easter eggs really makes me sad too.
It's such a shame really because some of the scenery is beautiful and that should be a reward in itself but I really needed something more. Everything else is deliberately devoid of life and it was just... boring.
This reads like a "Nintendo fanboys are blind" argument to me. There's not really any basis behind the claim that people who think BotW's exploration is rewarding somehow don't know any better.
I don't even get your comparison to WW. BotW is light years ahead of WW in exploration. Those islands were mostly tiny rocks with not much on them. Sailing was one-dimensional and boring too. What were you rewarded with in WW that BotW doesn't have?
The's the thing though, THEY ALL FOCUSED ON EXPLORATION.
That's why Wind Waker has such a huge overworld and the structure it has.
It's also why TP was structured the way it was made.
You thought there was no reason they gated you in each region forcing you to look up every nook and cranny of the regions?
Why do you thing they tried to spill dungeon content out of the dungeons into the overworld in SS?
ALL Zelda games have been about adventuring out there.
All 3D Zelda games post MM do a shit job of rewarding exploration, and I don't mean that compared to BotW.
BotW may not be perfect but at least you ALWAYS got something for your troubles when you reached a major or even minor landmark.
It's also why I despise WW so much, the dungeons are beyond shit and the exploration is paper thin with NO reward at all.
Not even underwhelming reward like a korok seed or something, just nothing at all.
Like people say that BotW doesn't reward exploration, but I found a beautiful village hidden away that I probably never would have found if I wasn't exploring properly. There was no quest marker or anything leading to this village, the only reason I was tipped off to its existance was because someone in Hateno Village mentioned that they were originally from this other village, and they vaguely described the route they took to arrive at Hateno Village when they moved out. So I explored and was rewarded with an entirely new village to visit.
I explored the Gerudo Highlands and found this giant statue hidden away and was rewarded with new armor with a unique function.
Near a stable, people kept mentioning loud sounds coming from the bottom of a deep ravine nearby, so I explored the ravine and was rewarded with a new minigame to play.
Near Rito Village there is a cabin that marks the begining of a trail that leads up Hebra Mountain. Inside the cabin is a journal where various travelers mention an NPC living at the top of the mountain. I explored the mountain and was rewarded with a fun new minigame and an awesome NPC to talk to.
So yeah, I do think BotW rewards exploration.
I explored the Gerudo Highlands and found this giant statue hidden away and was rewarded with new armor with a unique function.
Near a stable, people kept mentioning loud sounds coming from the bottom of a deep ravine nearby, so I explored the ravine and was rewarded with a new minigame to play.
Near Rito Village there is a cabin that marks the begining of a trail that leads up Hebra Mountain. Inside the cabin is a journal where various travelers mention an NPC living at the top of the mountain. I explored the mountain and was rewarded with a fun new minigame and an awesome NPC to talk to.
So yeah, I do think BotW rewards exploration.
It took me forever to realize all those places get marked on your map, with the skill requirements too. Maybe it was a patch? But yeah I didnt want to bother until I noticed that, but by then I had nearly beaten the game.
I would argue that this the complete opposite case.
When exploring the vastness of the Forbidden Lands, how often do you have to get off of Agro to pick up crafting items, talk to an NPC, clear an enemy camp, or sift through menus to manage your inventory and change your equipment?
I don't have a solid opinion on whether or not BotW offers rewarding exploration, but "the beauty and magic of the environment" is obscured by a lot of clutter that doesn't exist in Shadow of the Colossus, and for good reason.
Unique playable characters, new abilities/items (that don't break) or new areas are the things that come to mind for me.
Just to mention one thing that a few folks have missed:
There's also a hidden spot where where you'll come upon the vocal stylings of Professor Leila Adu for a second time, in the game: one / two.
Unique playable characters are far off course from what BotW is supposed to be. That sounds like a different game entirely. Even if you did that, how many fully unique playable characters would be needed to populate the world in order to properly reward exploration? How many would be reasonable to develop without losing sight of the core game design or just budget and time? To me it sounds like such a high wall to leap just to be baseline "rewarding."
As for the other things, new areas are what you find by exploring. Every new place you go is a new area. New abilities and items come with the weapons and armors you find as well as the Champion abilities. Shrines give you new puzzles to tackle plus allow you to increase your stats. Koroks let you increase your inventory space and fairies let you upgrade your gear with things you find by - you guessed it - exploring. The only way Link grows stronger is by exploring so I can't see how it isn't rewarding.
I don't think it's that unreasonable to have maybe a character who can swim fast, or a character with air mobility, maybe a character who can run fast or double jump, etc. I mean it might be a lot to add one of these characters but I'd rather have quality>quantity. I don't need 900 korok seeds who just add inventory space, I'd rather take new options to change how I'm playing the game.
The new environments are good, but as an alternative to the shrines I'd rather have unique themed areas. I don't really care about how strong Link gets, I'd rather have new characters I think are cool or new ways to play the game.
This is literally gears you get as rewards for exploration.
You also have a special gear that makes traversal easier as a reward for exploring.
The fact that it's not a new character with unique moveset doesn't mean the game doesn't reward exploration with stuffs that makes the game easier or different.
You are even rewarded with the opportunity to make all your gear better by exploring.
And do you know how you improve your gear? By trading stuffs you find.
How do you find all that stuffs needed? That's right exploring and paying attention to your surroundings.
I don't think the gears are really enough. The Zora armor gives a pretty slight boost to swimming speed, and the climbing set gives a slight boost to climbing speed. I'm thinking more substantial differences, like the characters in Majora's Mask.
I know that by exploring you find things. I just don't think those things are interesting or exciting in any way.
Uncharted 4 was bad for this.
Uncharted: Lost Legacy it was clear that they learned a bit from this and it was good.
I don't necessarily agree with Horizon Zero Dawn. Running off and exploring a new area and the potential to find new species of robots, have a random encounter, or end up in some sort of random skirmish one the way to doing something else definitely kept things interesting. Also the entire game was pretty to look at in HDR while doing all these things.
Uncharted: Lost Legacy it was clear that they learned a bit from this and it was good.
I don't necessarily agree with Horizon Zero Dawn. Running off and exploring a new area and the potential to find new species of robots, have a random encounter, or end up in some sort of random skirmish one the way to doing something else definitely kept things interesting. Also the entire game was pretty to look at in HDR while doing all these things.
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I think it was Horizon:ZD for me. Coming off of TW3 and BotW, Horizon just felt so empty. You could see some neat building or landmark off in the distance, go there, and that's it... it's just a neat-looking landmark. In the other games, at least there'd be a chest or a korok seed, or even a quest to do there. I never felt that my trips were wasted, whereas in Horizon I often did.
It's a personal thing but I enjoy exploring in a game like BOTW where the act of exploring is enjoyable or RDR2 where the world itself is full of interesting locations and characters. I think having XP and loot mechanics is a crutch and unfortunately it's a common one used nowadays.
i mean the thread title is
What games don't reward exploration?
Not
What rewards are not good enough compared to the work put in it.
The game is clearly rewarding you with stuffs by exploring.
Majora's Mask never reward you with anything that substantial by exploring.
There are a few off the critical path but anything substantial is on the critical path that anyone playing in the most linear fashion will get it.
The zora armor set gives you traversal option like climbing cascades and the climbing set is cumulative making the climbing boost substantial
Everything the game gives you is to make the player stronger,
Arguably the game does a very bad job explaining how the systems mesh with each others (or it's by design) but there's a lot of misconception in how the bonuses and stats work.
The op says "what games do you think didn't do this well, and why," and I don't think BotW rewarded exploration well.
MM's transformation masks and masks in general were more rewarding to me than any shrine or korok seed. Zora Link for example is such a huge difference to swimming, much more than the Zora armor in BotW.
But you're not rewarded the Zora mask by exploring!
It's like saying you're getting rewarded for exploring by getting a dungeon item.
It's not hidden, it's critical to getting anywhere and you cannot miss it anyway.
The most useful stuff you get exploring in Majora's Mask is the stone mask.
Incidentally BotW has something like 5 variations of that that you get by exploring.
Honestly I agree too.
BOTW initially sustains the illusion of rewarding exploration but the more you play the more you realise how hollow it is.
It's rare you get something that's actually new and fresh, maybe one or two things per region.
And that makes the exploration such a waste of time since you have to wander for hours through a bunch of boring areas in the hope you'll come across those one or two interesting things.
BotW doesn't have a focus on dungeons or the main mission though. It's all about exploring, so it makes sense you should find more things. And I don't think those things are as exciting or substantial as they could be.
Yeah but that doesn't change that MM doesn't reward exploration substantially.
Everything could be better but that doesn't make things bad either.
The game is full of soft roadblocks that are near impossible to overcome and the tools to do so are providing as reward for exploring the game.
They even added DLCs that are nothing BUT exploration by hidding clues and rewards in places you had to reach by exploring.
Some are purely cosmetic while others change radically how you tackle the game.
There's a piece of equipment that makes lateral traversal different that you cannot get without exploring.
The fact that you don't like the tools the game reward you with doesn't mean they are not substantial rewards.
You cannot even explore the game without using tools they give you by exploring.
Try a minimalist run and you'll see how integral the tools they give you by exploring are.
This game was based on Los Angles in 1947 and hearing that alone would be fantastic for a open world game. We never got that and it's such a waste/missed opportunity. Very small amount of collectables but also an empty world to drive around in made it worse.
The #1 answer IMO... Amazing world with absolutely 0 to do.
Yep, if you don't care about treasure you can just zoom through Uncharted without having to worry about it. I like in Last of Us that at least you're always low on pickups and crafting materials so exploring for that is actually rewarding
The good way to phrase it would be that BoTW rewards exploration handsomely, but also makes it very difficult to get rewarded. There is infinite amount of nothing in BoTWs world and it's easy to miss the good stuff.
I can totally understand if people were put off by venturing into the wrong paths and not finding anything. This totally helps with immersion, I am sick of overcrowded worlds, but you need to really commit to the game.
Why are certain users so disturbed at the botw answers? I feel the game is good at making things look good at a distance so that you're drawn to it but once you're there, you realise that it has nothing to offer. Korok seed #47, repetitive shrine #72, boring npc and side quest #21 with empty space in between.
But MM isn't about exploration. Exploration is pretty much all BotW is so it's a little more disappointing when I don't find anything interesting.
I don't think there's anything in BotW that "radically changes" how you play the game, besides maybe the bike which you get at the end of the long dlc quest. The paraglider was cool, I wish more of the items were like that.
Yeah, I don't think inventory space, health or stamina upgrades are substantial rewards. They aren't really fun or interesting in any way. The fact that shrines all look the same and reuse the same enemies/mini-bosses also makes me disappointed and not really care about finding them.
BotW is one of those games that it seems like people aren't allowed to criticize.
Luckily for you I already wrote the answer to this question in the quoted post. It quite literally said it's the same, but I found it more fun because at least they were islands and not open ground. If you're not going to read what I wrote then why argue?
pretty much. like i keep seeing people bring up botw not rewarding you and then ... listing off its rewards literally in the same breath. Not liking the rewards isnt the same as the game not having any.