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What does "meet in the middle" even mean if things keep shifting right?

SageShinigami

SageShinigami

Member
Oct 27, 2017
30,454
If the overton window is constantly shifting right, what the fuck does "we should meet in the middle" mean anymore? What's the center? Isn't America's version of center basically just right-wing to the rest of the world?

I'm already aware that the phrase is bullshit, but I just want someone to try to explain this unreasonable logic.
 
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HTupolev

HTupolev

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,418
When someone says that the voters of Pennsylvania should be disenfranchised, you should meet in the middle and agree to disenfranchise half of the voters of Pennsylvania.
 
It’s Time To Go

It’s Time To Go

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Dec 2, 2017
20,585
oWxqVcsULpSZccz0rBdyF-94zH1f3T_eHKvjhTgWBNw.jpg
 
Thequietone

Thequietone

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Oct 26, 2017
4,052
That's why I dismiss discussion about meeting in the middle. There is no meeting in the middle with people who want you, your family, and your friends dead.
 
Inugami

Inugami

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,995
The "middle" is a non existent place where cowards and people who are afraid of conflict meet to feel superior to everyone else.
 
Dever

Dever

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Dec 25, 2019
5,345
What do you mean by "shifting right"? Obama 2008 was far more conservative than Biden 2020.
 
ultracal31

ultracal31

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Oct 25, 2017
4,615
it's the idea of making things comfortable for the person suggesting the middle without actually doing anything to compromise their views who may be secretly right wing.

Notice how they never demand the right to go in the middle as well, just the left...
 
LinkSlayer64

LinkSlayer64

One Winged Slayer
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Jun 6, 2018
2,287
Someone have that picture of the Nazis on one side, protestors on the other, and some idiot in the middle being like "let's just get along" or whatever?
 
wolfshirt

wolfshirt

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,159
Los Angeles
It's a cursed sentiment that forever keeps two parties locked into a stalemate of their own design.

Ultimately there are major issues that almost all peoples can agree on: equality for all, the safety of children and the welfare of our elderly, for instance.

Yet because even these issues are are framed as political compromise, there is a chance that one or both of the parties will not being willing to capitulate (or 'lose'), despite the fact that the outcome will benefit EVERYONE.
 
I am a Bird

I am a Bird

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Oct 31, 2017
7,206
The middle is a place where people don't believe Americans should be racist, but support an American's right to be racist.
 

Deleted member 721

User-requested account closure
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Oct 25, 2017
10,416
It's usualy like this:

Right wing: "Let's exterminate all workers rights."

Left wing: "more workers rights"

Media, "centrists" and pseudo-left: "let's meet in the middle, let's exterminate some workers rights"
 
fragamemnon

fragamemnon

Member
Nov 30, 2017
6,812
How is the overton window on most issues moving right? The popular viewpoint on most issues is actually moving to the left and has been on that trajectory for almost 15 years. If you take the Democratic Party as a measure of the center, it winds up ideologically being in-line with other centrist parties in the world. It's not right-wing, unlike the GOP which is full on reactionary like Poland's PiS.

I do agree that "meet in the middle" has no meaning in the context of an ideological axis, people actually have specific policy points they believe in. Centrists don't do per-issue ideological/political compass coordinate arithmetic to find the "true center" position that no one likes as some kind of enlightened centrist virtue exercise-this is a strawman. Centrists pick specific popular positions and are pragmatic.

I find that in modern use, "meet in the middle" is used in a disingenuous way to discredit centrism as a valid political worldview, which in turn makes the extremes more acceptable.
 
Jakenbakin

Jakenbakin

Member
Jun 17, 2018
11,792
"Meet in the middle" means "I'm unwilling to compromise my position so I'm going to need you to compromise yours. We'll invent a narrative for the public that the 'correct' solution to problems exists in between the right and wrong path, and we can ensure that ultimately very little change can happen fast enough to enforce actual action."
 
skillzilla81

skillzilla81

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Oct 25, 2017
10,043
Shut up, oppressed groups and minorities, your bitching is making me address my privilege and I don't want to do that.
 
Nepenthe

Nepenthe

When the music hits, you feel no pain.
Administrator
Oct 25, 2017
20,659
"Meet in the middle" just means to compromise. It's a vacuous platitude to get people to stop fighting, not to actually find the best solution to issues.
 
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SageShinigami

SageShinigami

Member
Oct 27, 2017
30,454
fragamemnon said:
How is the overton window on most issues moving right? The popular viewpoint on most issues is actually moving to the left and has been on that trajectory for almost 15 years. If you take the Democratic Party as a measure of the center, it winds up ideologically being in-line with other centrist parties in the world. It's not right-wing, unlike the GOP which is full on reactionary like Poland's PiS.

I do agree that "meet in the middle" has no meaning in the context of an ideological axis, people actually have specific policy points they believe in. Centrists don't do per-issue ideological/political compass coordinate arithmetic to find the "true center" position that no one likes as some kin of enlightened centrist virtue exercise. Centrists pick specific popular positions and are pragmatic.

I find that in modern use, "meet in the middle" is used in a disingenuous way to discredit centrism as a valid political worldview, which in turn makes the extremes more acceptable.
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The popular viewpoint is moving so left that we elected a white supremacist for four years and 70 million people would've done so again. The overton window has shifted right enough that Trump was able to survive the primary. He should've been done when he said Mexicans were drug dealers and rapists, but he wasn't.
 
Joe Shlabotnik

Joe Shlabotnik

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,883
The overton window is a dumb idea as in general the parties are moving apart from each other and the country is drifting left or right specific to particular issues
 
mentok15

mentok15

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Dec 20, 2017
7,284
Australia
SageShinigami said:
Isn't America's version of center basically just right-wing to the rest of the world?
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Not really unless you consider the rest of the world a few Western European nations? Like here in Australia Biden wouldn't be really considered right-wing.

And with meeting in the middle I'm conflicted. Like with human rights there's no real middle, everyone has the same rights, there's nothing to discuss there.
But say with things like welfare, taxation, and environmental regulations I'm not sure. I'd be more on the side of compromising and getting something done that standing your ground but you get nothing.
 
Horp

Horp

Member
Nov 16, 2017
3,707
Well, define middle here.
I'm the most left and progressive guy in my social circle (which consists of left-of-center swedes) but I think there are lots of peopme here on era that would call me a centrist. So, since I think I'm kinda right (otherwise I would change my stance ofc) where *I* am could be considered "meeting in the middle" by some here, perhaps.
If you mean the actual middle between era-left and literal republicans - that's impossible. Thats like trying to get a nice mix of ice and fire: you either put out the fire or you melt the ice. Very little of what made ice ice and what made fire fire is still around.
I would prob be "very cold water" in this analogy - which as you know has absolutely nothing in common with fire, but is also not quite as cold and hard as ice.
 
imbarkus

imbarkus

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Oct 25, 2017
2,645
It means you decide if you're a pragmatist or an idealist, and if it's the latter you stand your fucking ground.

In the full mix of sorting out our group future or lack thereof, there's a place for either of you.
 
Xando

Xando

Member
Oct 28, 2017
27,263
Meeting in the middle doesn't really work in two party systems like the US.

The need to compromise and build coalitions is deeply ingrained in some political systems but that is usually with parties that have a somewhat similar world view (social democrats and greens for example) and need to find a majority.

If you only have two blocs there isn't really a way to achieve a long lasting coalition, especially if both parties are as polarized as they are in the US.
 
fragamemnon

fragamemnon

Member
Nov 30, 2017
6,812
SageShinigami said:
The popular viewpoint is moving so left that we elected a white supremacist for four years and 70 million people would've done so again. The overton window has shifted right enough that Trump was able to survive the primary. He should've been done when he said Mexicans were drug dealers and rapists, but he wasn't.
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Trump embraced a left shift to win both the primaries and the 2016 general election. In those races, he separated himself from unpopular GOP orthodoxy and ran on expanding social security and Medicare. This normalized him just enough to peel away some white conservatives that had a hard time voting for the GOP in the past because they relied on these programs to exist and work.

He governed like a lunatic, which is what we all knew would happen, but the candidate was a break from the traditional GOP drumbeat on social welfare.
 
MinerArcaniner

MinerArcaniner

Member
Oct 29, 2017
6,249
Hjod said:
Don't try to push the boot of your neck, lay still and stop resisting.
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This is the real answer.

The whole "reach across the aisle" canard is a tacit endorsement of a political system that consistently fails the public. We don't have enough trustworthy and competent politicians for such a stance to make sense. The shit sausage of a COVID relief bill being a case in point.
 
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SageShinigami

SageShinigami

Member
Oct 27, 2017
30,454
fragamemnon said:
Trump embraced a left shift to win both the primaries and the 2016 general election. In those races, he separated himself from unpopular GOP orthodoxy and ran on expanding social security and Medicare. This normalized him just enough to peel away some white conservatives that had a hard time voting for the GOP in the past because they relied on these programs to exist and work.

He governed like a lunatic, which is what we all knew would happen, but the candidate was a break from the traditional GOP drumbeat on social welfare.
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He lied about both of these things. He didn't embrace dick. He ran on racism, and the racism is what got him the vote.

Horp said:
Well, define middle here.
I'm the most left and progressive guy in my social circle (which consists of left-of-center swedes) but I think there are lots of peopme here on era that would call me a centrist. So, since I think I'm kinda right (otherwise I would change my stance ofc) where *I* am could be considered "meeting in the middle" by some here, perhaps.
If you mean the actual middle between era-left and literal republicans - that's impossible. Thats like trying to get a nice mix of ice and fire: you either put out the fire or you melt the ice. Very little of what made ice ice and what made fire fire is still around.
I would prob be "very cold water" in this analogy - which as you know has absolutely nothing in common with fire, but is also not quite as cold and hard as ice.
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What does any of this even mean. You can't just call yourself "left and progressive" without mentioning a stance or three if you're asking for clarification. ERA isn't exactly the most left place if you go on gaming side btw.
 
maxxpower

maxxpower

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,950
California
It's what centrists say when they don't want to admit that they don't want universal healthcare, free college and UBI.
 
Sheiter

Sheiter

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
174
Eylos said:
It's usualy like this:

Right wing: "Let's exterminate all workers rights."

Left wing: "more workers rights"

Media, "centrists" and pseudo-left: "let's meet in the middle, let's exterminate some workers rights"
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Click to shrink...
This about sums it up When the right is so much more extreme than the left, the middle will always favor the right.
 
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