What does "Centrism" mean to you?

[Ichthyosaurus]

No, in the US the right wing always used to be the party of isolationism and not getting involved. Imperialism in the US always was, and still is, a left wing project motivated by a desire to spread "enlightenment". At first that meant Christianity, then it meant anti-Communism, then democracy and human rights.

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Since when were Nixon, Reagan and both Bushes left wing? None of them were isolationists. Trump's brand of isolationism is a new thing, not consistent with mainstream right wing US political philosophy, and he still tried to get us into wars over tweets, but luckily no-one bit.

 

[SnakeXs]

Gen X malaise as a political position.

Not caring being "cool" made sense in the 90s. Social issues were being kept down/hidden, the US was loving everything during its cocaine binge between the end of the Cold War and 9/11 capped off with the thick line that was the internet boom.

A lot of very important issues are currently at stake in ways that could be make or break, fork in the road type situations.

If you're a self proclaimed centrist today I really want to know where your political stances are, where you want the country to be in 20 years and what you think the major issues were facing domestically and internationally and let's see how center you really land.

That said it's a misnomer only in the past 2 years has their been true progressive discourse, and even then the mainstream "left" media scrutinized it more than they do many Republican positions, so calling anyone "center" when the left is center right seems problematic to me.

 

[TinfoilHatsROn]

I'll speak about American individuals, as I live here.

To me, a centrist is someone who holds beliefs that are both Conservative and Liberal. They may be mostly Liberal in their beliefs, but hold one or two particular Conservative beliefs that to them are just as (or possibly even more) important to them. The opposite may also be true.

As a result they are unwilling to commit to either the Republican Party or the Democratic Party. Essentially, they can't pick a team because well, they have no team.

If one believes abortion is a woman's choice, favors a state-run health care system, believes that LGBTQ rights are human rights and need to be treated as such, and believes that measures should be taken to protect the environment/lessen carbon footprints, yet also strongly believes in the individual's right to own and carry a firearm, and agrees that there should be a death penalty, which party aligns with their beliefs? There is little (if any) contradiction here, or none of these beliefs is at odds with another. That to me, is an example of a Centrist.

Unfortunately, many think the Centrist is one who doesn't care enough to formulate an opinion. They confuse the Centrist with the Republican hiding amongst the Democrats (or vice versa, though I haven't ever seen this) that unironically says "both sides."

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So for your last paragraph, you mean the difference between being a centrist and a capital C 'Centrist'. Makes sense.

Centrism is a misshapen and maligned phrase, because it has essentially been used to mean the center of the Democrat-Republican poles. Whereas the reality is that people have varying views that in aggregate average them out between the two parties, but they are still holding polar opposite views.

For example: Person A believes in a free market but is also pro-gay marriage and abortion. They would be called a centrist because they "average" out on a political spectrum, but these views can be held at the same time. You can be pro-gay marriage and in favor of a free market, those beliefs are not mutually exclusive of each other, and the reverse works as well: Anti-gay marriage and against free markets.

There is also when people try to look at all sides of an issue and try to have more than a simplistic black/white mentality and are immediately condemned as centrist for it by someone who is ingrained into a political mentality. So lets say a kid is bullied and takes a violent revenge. That revenge should still be condemned outright, but just because the bullied kid did something drastic, it doesn't mean bullying in general should be overlooked as an ongoing issue and underlying factor to be handled. Essentially drastic action in response to something does not give the stimuli an immediate "pass." The drastic "sides" approach to this would be one side condemning the bullied kid and ignoring what led up to it versus another side validating the act as appropriate. The optimal route in my view would be condemning the vengeful act and the individual who committed it, alongside condemnation of the bullying and continued efforts to mitigate and reduce bullying.

We are having a lot of issues lately where people cannot separate beliefs from actions, and those that try too are also misapplied as centrist as they likely have polar beliefs with potential carryover between models. In the US constitution you are free to believe what you want, and it is when you act upon those beliefs is where the push back is drawn from. That does not give those beliefs a free pass from scrutiny, just the right to have them without governmental intervention for simply holding them (No Muslim re-education camps in the USA like China essentially). IE Religious belief A should not be condemned by the government, but when someone tries to legislate on them the government should push back and prevent a religion from being pushed by the state onto someone outside the religion.

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Except not deplatforming those harmful beliefs often lead to them forming a stranglehold on politics. One leads to the other and by the point that the government decides to push back, it's often too late. Or they have negative effects on society. See antivaxxers. Or you know, the latest mosque shhoting.

If someone believes that climate change isn't real will they not act on said beliefs?



I mean it's already way too late on global warming anyway though.

 

[Heshinsi]

Since when were Nixon, Reagan and both Bushes left wing? None of them were isolationists. Trump's brand of isolationism is a new thing, not consistent with mainstream right wing US political philosophy, and he still tried to get us into wars over tweets, but luckily no-one bit.

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Are McKinley (Spanish-American War), Theodore Roosevelt (Roosevelt Corollary), and Eisenhower considered left wing as well?

 

[SaveWeyard]

Are McKinley (Spanish-American War), Theodore Roosevelt (Roosevelt Corollary), and Eisenhower considered left wing as well?

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The imperialism of Roosevelt and Eisenhower are different beasts, with policies of American hegemony only really taking hold post-WW2, but yeah, there hasn't been an anti-imperialist president in a very long time.

 

[Ichthyosaurus]

The imperialism of Roosevelt and Eisenhower are different beasts, with policies of American hegemony only really taking hold post-WW2, but yeah, there hasn't been an anti-imperialist president in a very long time.

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The argument wasn't that there weren't imperialist US presidents, that is unbroken, it's that it was all the left wing's fault.

 

[Zoc]

Since when were Nixon, Reagan and both Bushes left wing? None of them were isolationists. Trump's brand of isolationism is a new thing, not consistent with mainstream right wing US political philosophy, and he still tried to get us into wars over tweets, but luckily no-one bit.

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You have to go much further back than Nixon to find non-insane conservative US presidents. Like Woodrow Wilson or Republican-controlled congresses until the 1940s. For decades (until the start of the Cold War) it was always the Democrats who wanted to send troops to other countries, and the Republicans who tried to stop them. The rot in the Republican party started with their pivot to racism and rabid anti-Communism in the 50s; the first real trash Republican was Barry Goldwater, who lost the election to Lyndon Johnson in 1964.

Republicans in the US aren't real conservatives and don't really support liberty. They say they are all about liberty and conservatism, but any reasonable definition of those words means they should support the following: protect nature; don't regulate people's sex lives; free access to abortion, etc. The fact they are on the wrong side tells you all you need to know about their true nature.

 

[artemis]

It depends if you are American or not.

 

[Plywood]

What is someone who is neither left, right, or centrist?

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Ubisoft

 

[SaveWeyard]

The argument wasn't that there weren't imperialist US presidents, that is unbroken, it's that it was all the left wing's fault.

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I wasn't refuting that, just chiming in to say that imperialism has materially changed over the years, and modern US presidents are always upholders of American hegemony to varying degrees. Even if Bernie gets elected, that's not going to change.

 

[Ichthyosaurus]

I wasn't refuting that, just chiming in to say that imperialism has materially changed over the years, and modern US presidents are always upholders of American hegemony to varying degrees. Even if Bernie gets elected, that's not going to change.

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Agreed on that.

 

[Cocolina]

Democrats in the USA are centrist

 

[Mavis]

People who want to keep all the advantages they have whilst feeling bad about it.

 

[Dracil]

When I called myself Centrist/Independent back then, it was more in that I had a mix of beliefs that I considered to be from both the left and right on different issues. Didn't mean I was apathetic in the slightest. But with everything that's happened in like the past two decades, I think the country has overall shifted to the right and I want nothing to do with what is considered to be on the current right so now I consider myself to be on the left.

 

[Ichthyosaurus]

When I called myself Centrist/Independent back then, it was more in that I had a mix of beliefs that I considered to be from both the left and right on different issues. Didn't mean I was apathetic in the slightest. But with everything that's happened in like the past two decades, I think the country has overall shifted to the right and I want nothing to do with what is considered to be on the current right so now I consider myself to be on the left.

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From your description I'd say you were a moderate rather than a Centrist. Until Trump was elected the country was finally moving to the left on many things, unlike in the 90's where the Dems had to be Republican-lite just to stay in the game.

 

[KillLaCam]

Centrists are the most annoying people by far and it seems like they bring up politics more than everyone else

 

[Dracil]

From your description I'd say you were a moderate rather than a Centrist. Until Trump was elected the country was finally moving to the left on many things, unlike in the 90's where the Dems had to be Republican-lite just to stay in the game.

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Interesting. I've also seen the two defined in reverse. I think it's one of those things that haven't been well-defined and pseudo-interchangeable depending on who you're talking to.

 

[Pyramid Head]

Everyone I know who claims to be a 'centrist', or claims to hold 'moderate' political views seems to give an awful lot of pushback against any progressive issues.
"Yeah, but their taking it too far with all this gender stuff though."
"I read that women get paid the same as men these days so there is no more sexism really."
"But US cops shoot more white people than black people so how can they be institutionally racist? All these BLM protesters are just virtue signalling"
"I see that people have already found Kavanaugh guilty, what happened to due process?"
"Jordan Peterson's psychology is good."

One guy I know did one of those political leaning tests on Facebook and acted quite surprised when it told him he way waaaay over there on the right.
"I'm centrist really, dunno why the results said that!"

I think some of these people's deluded perceptions of the world are so skewed, and they think the overton window has shifted so far in their favour, that they genuinely believe their clearly right wing views can pass for normal everyday baseline centrism. Because you have to literally be Hitler to really be right wing afterall.

 

[Atolm]

It's strange. I got called a centrist a few days ago in this forum, as an insult. Maybe that person should look a bit more outside the US. In Europe, a great majority of people are either center-left or Center-right and the more you move outside the center the more votes you lose.

 

[Prax]

Centrism to me personally is what I think I am: fairly rational and will make evidence-based decisions towards a productive, sustainable, and better future. Milquetoast in many ways. I may have ideals, but I would like to achieve them in practical or realistic ways (the numbers need to add up). Also, although I believe most people should have general ability for self-agency, definitely some people need decisions made for them :P (i.e. if you're a nazi or a dumdum, no you don't get to decide anything substantial for the rest of society haha. Basically I think regulations and rule of law are important).

So when I take political compass tests, I get something like this lol:

I know a lot of leftist ERA think of centrism as conservatives in denial or whatever, but maybe that's an American understanding.

 

[Deleted member 37233]

It's strange. I got called a centrist a few days ago in this forum, as an insult. Maybe that person should look a bit more outside the US. In Europe, a great majority of people are either center-left or Center-right and the more you move outside the center the more votes you lose.

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Yep, this disdain for the center seems to be a mostly american thing. In Europe it's pretty normal and probably also healthy.

But perhaps I'm the enemy or a coward for some people her:

:P

 

[FeliciaFelix]

I think the lefty left doesnt quite have the numbers to get elected and are loath to reach out to people that might be reasoned with but aren't completely onboard.

So I define centrism as that group of people. At least on this board. Theres probably a real definition on a textbook somewhere.

 

[Ichthyosaurus]

Democrats in the USA are centrist

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It's a coalition, centrists have a strong hold on leadership. There are plenty of leftist and conservative Democrats.

 

[Cocolina]

It's a coalition, centrists have a strong hold on leadership. There are plenty of leftist and conservative Democrats.

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It's not a coalition, it's a political party and therefore I will treat it as a single unit regardless of the aspirations of individual members.

 

[massoluk]

A misnomer for People that prefer status quo and thus really not "centrists" for such things aren't really possible, to be for something but remains both side. Cowards

 

[bane833]

It depends if you are American or not.

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Centrists are garbage here too (Europe).
They try to legitimate right wing bullshit by pretending it's a valid opinion to have. They're also mostly neoliberal and try to protect the status quo and ruling class.

 

[Brinbe]

people with their heads in the sand, ignorant to the actual suffering of people without means in their country, completely content with the status quo

Don't come at me with your racism, homelessness/evergrowing inequality, or social issues! Things are just fine and dandy the way they are. I think people like Romney/Kasich/Huntsman are prime examples.

 

[Barry Sandwich]

The responses in this thread are why the current political extremes won't be going away anytime soon.

The labels, name-calling, strawmen and misrepresentation used to describe unifying moderates are as venomous as those used to describe those who subscribe to abhorrent ideologies.

It's a marathon not a sprint, and if the population is split down the middle you're not going to bludgeon the other side into submission.

Also... the foreign agents trying to stir division on the internet want you to hate centrists. So think on.

 

[TheHighMarshal]

"I couldn't care less about anyone but myself, my spine is made from Jelly"

 

[Shy]

The responses in this thread are why the current political extremes won't be going away anytime soon.

The labels, name-calling, strawmen and misrepresentation used to describe unifying moderates are as venomous as those used to describe those who subscribe to abhorrent ideologies.

It's a marathon not a sprint kids, and if the population is split down the middle you're not going to bludgeon the other side into submission.

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That's quite the marathon you're running there, champ.

Also... the foreign agents trying to stir division on the internet want you to hate centrists. So think on.

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I don't need foreign agents to hate moderates. But keep that hand in the sand though. It's easier than admitting you're part of the problem.

 

[fanboi]

American centrism =/= rest of the world

 

[take_marsh]

From an American standpoint (the only one I can even have an opinion on): the side that says "Can't we all just get along".

No, boogie. We will not "all get along".

 

[Ichthyosaurus]

It's not a coalition, it's a political party and therefore I will treat it as a single unit regardless of the aspirations of individual members.

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Large political parties, like the GOP and Democrats, are coalitions. They're made of numerous sub-groups working together both within the party itself and the voting blocs. There are no single individual leftists, centrists, liberals or conservatives in the party - there are millions of people in those categories.

 

[ishan]

To me it's realizing things are often not black and white even if you want them to be . Listening with an open mind to contrary viewpoints and acknowledging you can be wrong and learning and growing as a result

 

[Dan]

American centrism =/= rest of the world

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This. This so much.

 

[Barry Sandwich]

That's quite the marathon you're running there, champ.

I don't need foreign agents to hate moderates. But keep that hand in the sand though. It's easier than admitting you're part of the problem.

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Your solution is for all centrists to move as far left as the next person on the left to re-define centrism?

I think centrism in Europe is different to the US, what MLK is calls the "white moderate" I would call right-wing, not centre.

 

[Doctor_Thomas]

Fence sitting appeasement.

 

[whitehawk]

Your solution is for all centrists to move as far left as the next person on the left to re-define centrism?

I think centrism in Europe is different to the US, what MLK is calls the "white moderate" I would call right-wing, not centre.

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The moderate of the 60s is very different to the moderate of today. The lesson stands the test of time though.

 

[Deleted member 10551]

person who believes in the status quo, right or wrong. Prioritizes order above all else.

 

[FeliciaFelix]

That's quite the marathon you're running there, champ.

I don't need foreign agents to hate moderates. But keep that hand in the sand though. It's easier than admitting you're part of the problem.

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No, I kinda agree with what the guy responding to you said. You may hate on moderates all you want but you need some of them because purely lefty dont have the numbers to get into power.

I make a distinction between those that can be educated and those that wont. But posts like this tag all moderates as evil and I reject that. And I dont think throwing the "salvageable" ones into the deep side of the lefty pool is helpful. And some people will never be 100% pure left and I dont think labeling automatically Republican is helpful either.

 

[Pellaidh]

From an European perspective, Centrism to me refers to a wide variety of centre-left and centre-right parties that reject both the socialist ideologies of the left, as well as the hate, racism, imperialism, religious fanaticism, and completely unchecked capitalism of the right. Although even in Europe, I'd imagine opinions vary widely, since it's far from a homogeneous entity.

Some examples from my country are Social Democrats (centre-left), Social Liberals/Liberals (centre), or Christian Democrats (centre-right). They all aim to combine (neoliberal) capitalism with social programs that are at least in theory aimed at helping the less well off in society, such as government subsidized healthcare, worker protections, and so on. They're also all at least nominally for social equality of all citizens, although a lot of those policies don't really work in practice. Wikipedia also considers some democratic socialists as centre-left, but I consider those closer to the left than to the centre, because over here the democratic socialist party is basically the only real left-wing option.

And while centre-left, centrist, and centre-right parties are widely different in their policies, they're usually still compatible enough to form some sort of a coalition (for example, the EU parliament coalition between the centre-left S&D, centrist ALDE, and the initially centre-right but now partially far-right EPP).

 

[Skade]

From the point of vue of a french, a centrist is roughly a US Democrat.

And a US centrist is more or less a moderate right.

Wich also correlate your Republicans to our far-right.

The "left" of the US doesn't have much in common with the left you can find in France. So obviously, the perspective is skewed for what is in the "center".

 

[Deleted member 41271]

To me, centrism depends on the country. In a continental European context, centrism is pretty much what passes as "left" in the US. That centrism is okay.

And then we have US-American/British centrism, ie the kind that attacks women, supports fascists, and is generally very Boogie. The kind where "Both sides" are always considered exactly equal, and middle ground is best, allowing fascists to drag the middle further and further right with increasing radicalization

US-Centrism is flat out horrible, as are its proponents. When I see someone describe themselves as centrist in an US context, I always expect them to be a horrible person, and that assumption has, so far, never been wrong.

 

[fanboi]

An issue with your centrism in the US is how the political map is built, where you have two parties and not several like most democratic countries, where a centrist point of view has nothing to do with hateful ideologies or "left and right is the same" mentality.

 

[DryCreek]

.

 

[Dan]

From the point of vue of a french, a centrist is roughly a US Democrat.

And a US centrist is more or less a moderate right.

Wich also correlate your Republicans to our far-right.

The "left" of the US doesn't have much in common with the left you can find in France. So obviously, the perspective is skewed for what is in the "center".

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Yep, this is the "European" definition here. There's quite a difference between the definition on either side of the Atlantic.

 

[Ichthyosaurus]

It should be about taking the best ideas from the right and left, but in practice they just seem to compromise on everything till it's all shit.

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To be fair, that's not exclusive to centrism. They're just more open about it since they want something to happen rather than leave with nothing. Politics is compromise, even Bernie does this. Can't get around it.

Centrism is also what the politically illiterate will claim they are as it gives then a load of lines to repeat that make them sound clever without actually having to learn anything

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You don't them reacting to any system around them? It's all political theatre, like they're magicians putting on an act?

 

[Cocolina]

Large political parties, like the GOP and Democrats, are coalitions. They're made of numerous sub-groups working together both within the party itself and the voting blocs. There are no single individual leftists, centrists, liberals or conservatives in the party - there are millions of people in those categories.

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They are groups with singular manifestos and will be scrutinised as such. Political policies and discourse is decided upon the premise of the political party's stance. Not on a sub-group and not by a single individual. If you think political parties are too big and not representative that's a different conversation.

 

[thetrin]

Centrists are fence sitters. Too obsessed with not offending anyone to really believe in something.

 

[Ichthyosaurus]

They are groups with singular manifestos and will be scrutinised as such. Political policies and discourse is decided upon the premise of the political party's stance. Not on a sub-group and not by a single individual. If you think political parties are too big and not representative that's a different conversation.

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Having a manifesto is not the same as everyone being in lockstep. Dems are infamous for in-fighting and herding cats. Politicians are allowed to vote for however they feel, and they can go against leadership to appease their singular or sub-group's base any time they feel like it. Politicians party stances are not taken entirely by default, as they don't speak for all the groups and particularly since leftists (in the past, this was liberals) have conflicted with centrists regularly in small and large skirmishes with each other. While the party structure is static, the numerous individuals in it are not and change is always around the corner. Centrists have a specific meaning within the party as a certain group, who wield power, but are not the entirely of it because the party is made of all members not simply the leaders. Some big leaders aren't centrists, as well.