What does a paid upgrade for Spider-Man tell us about PS5 BC?

RowdyReverb · Sep 23, 2020

Doc Cottle said:
Didn't Microsoft engineers actually do much of the coding work to enable this. They have a MASSIVE back compat advantage with their virtualised Hyper-V solution that Sony simply cannot compete with right now, Xbox can inject fixes/updates at runtime to do this. Asking publishers/devs to invest a lot of time and effort for free isn't going to happen.

I wouldn't expect third party publishers to apply enhanced BC patches to their games, but I feel like Sony's first party output, which is a huge selling point of their ecosystem, should have some minor enhancement patches to boost resolution, AA/AF, and/or unlocked framerate (especially if the game already has a performance mode). Not asking for the moon here

Shogun · Sep 23, 2020

It tells us that locking away a remastered version of an older game behind a new $50 game is welcomed. In reality this $20 remaster should be available to everybody who owns the PS4 version of Spiderman it's pure fucking greed and nothing more. Extract the maximum from peoples wallets on launch before offering a standalone remaster down the line.

Equanimity · Sep 23, 2020

K' Dash said:
I would expect the same game I played on PS4 with zero enhancements.

You would expect wrong.

RestEerie · Sep 23, 2020

Doc Cottle said:
Didn't Microsoft engineers actually do much of the coding work to enable this. They have a MASSIVE back compat advantage with their virtualised Hyper-V solution that Sony simply cannot compete with right now, Xbox can inject fixes/updates at runtime to do this. Asking publishers/devs to invest a lot of time and effort for free isn't going to happen.

and as a consumer, sony technical incompetence is literally 'not my problem'.

not sure why but i am getting more and more repulsed by sony and the PlayStation brand these few weeks.......

i love their games but the brand is slowly becoming 'unbecoming' to me.....

i guess it's always wise not to be a loyal customer of anything and remain platform agnostic and if that's sony strategy, to decrease customer 'stickiness', then congrats to them, they are in the verge of losing me as one.

i will move on, no biggie. Just as i, as one one person, am no biggie to them when they have tens of millions of enablers thinking out for sony's bottom line.

ghibli99 · Sep 23, 2020

I never had many expectations out of Sony BC. It's been that way since the PS2 days. The base expectation is that your last-gen game runs the same without weird issues caused by the new hardware. You might get better load times, more consistent framerates, better texture filtering, etc., but it was never going to be like what the Xbox BC team has done, with their deeper, individualized approach to each game, allowing them not to just run, but be enhanced beyond just what you'd expect out of brute-force hardware improvements. The fact that we got all of that basically for free this gen on the Xbox side was a gift. I'm sure it also boosted sales of their back catalog, since there was a reason beyond just being able to play those old games to have them again.

City 17 · Sep 23, 2020

bbq of doom said:
Because it's not backwards compatibility--it's a remaster. It's a separate SKU developed for the new console.

Backwards compatibility is inserting a PS4 disc and playing that disc on a PS5 or launching and playing a digital PS4 game on a PS5.

Once again, are you positive you're not looking for the other Spider-Man thread?

Dude, "paid upgrade" is literally there in the title, it's a topic about both paid upgrades (which could've been free) and general BC.

SafetyWordisMert · Sep 23, 2020

Sony needs to demo the feature already. We shouldn't have to speculate post pre-order.

TheGhost · Sep 23, 2020

K' Dash said:
I would expect the same game I played on PS4 with zero enhancements.

I would expect them with one x style enhancements. 4K and enhanced textures and stuff

CrichtonKicks · Sep 23, 2020

RowdyReverb said:
If the game has a performance mode and a graphics mode already, I feel like it shouldn't take a ton of effort to apply the unlocked framerates of performance modes to the graphics mode profile, but it could make a huge impact. Imagine peak PS4 graphics but in locked 60 fps, it would be amazing

Totally agree. Though I can see some developers maybe shying away from adding a 60 fps mode if it doesn't already exist. If the engine isn't tuned for 60 fps it's possible that there could be knock on side effects from going to 60 fps. Especially for games that become CPU bound when going above 30 fps.

But for devs who already deal with 60 fps and above (ie those who have been releasing on PC as well), fps patches shouldn't be too challenging hopefully. And proper 4K as well.

Goodacre0081 · Sep 23, 2020

it tells me I should subscribe to game pass and buy games from companies who respect my past purchases.

I see no reason to ever buy Sony first party games day one anymore. I 100% expect a God of War PS5 remaster when Ragnarok launches, no free upgrade, no cheap upgrade path, blog post about how much extra work was put into it.

Belthazar90 · Sep 23, 2020

BC on boost mode: more stable framerate when variable and more stable resolution when dynamic, with both probably being locked at the max values of the original in most cases.

Remaster: It's a remaster, wheter it involves better textures, better lighting, raytracing, better framerate, upgraded models, whatever.

At the end of the day you have the choice of playing the original or buying an upgraded version. But I agree it's scummy to not offer a paid upgrade path.

Modest_Modsoul · Sep 23, 2020

Boost mode + SSD &...

That's it, maybe? 🤷🙄

J_Viper · Sep 23, 2020

Imagine the thread when TLOU 2 Remastered is announced as a full priced release

theAllseeingEYE · Sep 23, 2020

At the very least , I would hope for all of the big 1st party Sony games to raise the framerate cap on games for PS5 to 60fps or 120fps, and for them to just let the full power of the system keep that framerate stable.

I think that's a pretty minor ask honestly, and I hope 3rd parties are allowed to give us free updates as well.

Carn · Sep 23, 2020

QuigleyMcShine said:
What is the difference between a remaster and an enhancement patch for BC game? Isn't it just a matter of degrees?

a patch, generally, would change some configuration of the current game. For example; make it run in a higher resolution or framerate. Depending on how the game's resources are layed out, it might even replace or update some assets.

Some armchair-developer assumptions follow: In PS5 Spider-Man's case, its -most likely- running on the PS5 Miles Morales iteration of the engine (lets call it Spidey Tech 2.0). I believe vice-versa being the case: Miles Morales on PS4 will be running on the PS4 iteration of the engine, lets call it Spidey Tech 1.0.

Spidey Tech 2 probably has a different graphics pipeline to include things like RT, a different audio system; not to mention facilitating the engine for the SSD-speeds regarding near-instant loading and actual movement speed throught the gameworld.

bbq of doom · Sep 23, 2020

City 17 said:
Dude, "paid upgrade" is literally there in the title, it's a topic about both paid upgrades (which could've been free) and general BC.

If you keep reading the title you'll see the letters "BC"; if you read the OP, it talks about enhancements made via BC. Those are inapplicable here as Spider-Man remastered is a separate game developed for a platform separate from the original.

It does not mean that you can't play Spider-Man PS4 on your PS5, and I believe there's even discussion of that in the other thread.

This is not BC, this is--once again--a separate title. It is not an upgrade insofar as you do not upgrade the original game. In fact, the only upgrade path available is from the base Miles Morales edition to the Ultimate edition, which adds the remaster (which is, once again, a separate SKU).

If Sony was selling an enhancement that uses the PS4 game--aka, you insert a PS4 disc and acquire a paid enhancement via the store--then you'd absolutely have a clear, cogent, and (imo) correct argument. As that is simply not the case, I am once again asking if you are positive you understand the questions and issues here.

WordsintheWater · Sep 23, 2020

Belthazar90 said:
BC on boost mode: more stable framerate when variable and more stable resolution when dynamic, with both probably being locked at the max values of the original in most cases.

Remaster: It's a remaster, wheter it involves better textures, better lighting, raytracing, better framerate, upgraded models, whatever.

At the end of the day you have the choice of playing the original or buying an upgraded version. But I agree it's scummy to not offer a paid upgrade path.

It's gonna be this.

AwakenedCloud · Sep 23, 2020

Reminder: The Witcher 3 will be released on next Gen consoles with (assumingly) a comparative level of enhancements, but it will be a free upgrade for existing owners. By people's own definition here, that one would also be in the remaster camp with heavily improved graphics, load times, and ray-tracing.

The Witcher 3 is coming to PS5 and Xbox Series X

It’s a free upgrade for existing PS4 and Xbox One owners

www.polygon.com

CloudsFromSpace · Sep 23, 2020

It tells us that Sony's strategy is to continue to build successive walled-garden type platforms and incentivize you to buy into the newest one with special or exclusive content. It's like they're building a garden (PS5) on top of an existing garden (PS4). Sure you can always go downstairs and visit the garden on the first floor, but if you pay the price you can move some of your favorite plants to the brand new second floor and damn the lighting is really good up there.

The MS strategy is still a walled garden, to be sure, but when it comes to their first-party stuff it's more like they're bringing in contractors to spruce up the garden you already have.

RestEerie · Sep 23, 2020

Goodacre0081 said:
it tells me I should subscribe to game pass and buy games from companies who respect my past purchases.

I see no reason to ever buy Sony first party games day one anymore. I 100% expect a God of War PS5 remaster when Ragnarok launches, no free upgrade, blog post about how much extra work was put into it.

throw horizon, tlou2 and got in thay pile too.

fuck, i wished i bought the tlou2 physically so that i can resell that thing off.

I'm never buying sony 1st party full price at launch again and that's a lesson taught to me by sony themselves.

CrichtonKicks · Sep 23, 2020

AwakenedCloud said:
Reminder: The Witcher 3 will be released on next Gen consoles with (assumingly) a comparative level of enhancements, but it will be a free upgrade for existing owners. By people's own definition here, that one would also be in the remaster camp with heavily improved graphics, load times, and ray-tracing.

The Witcher 3 is coming to PS5 and Xbox Series X

It’s a free upgrade for existing PS4 and Xbox One owners

www.polygon.com

Of course it's a remaster. I don't think that was in any doubt.

CDPR is a strong proponent of goodwill and value. They added a lot of free content to TW3 post-release that most publishers would have charged a season pass for. When they did release paid expansions their quality was best in generation.

Most developers and publishers don't act like CDPR.

Goodacre0081 · Sep 23, 2020

RestEerie said:
throw horizon, tlou2 and got in thay pile too.

fuck, i wished i bought the tlou2 physically so that i can resell that thing off.

I'm never buying sony 1st party full price at launch again and that's a lesson taught to me by sony themselves.

Sony needs to add more value to these games now that Game Pass is such a good deal. we're paying $60/$70 for a single game and they can't be bothered to upgrade it's loyal customers for free?

do something, give PS+ users a free upgrade path

Tagyhag · Sep 23, 2020

jett said:
What "much" work? TLOU:R essentially looks the same as the PS3 game with higher res/framerate options and the cinematic character models used in-game. It's a basic ass remaster.

Don't get me wrong, it's not the best remaster of the world, but it still did more like help pop-ins, texture detail, photo mode, and QOL improvements.

I'm not expecting anything extra with Spider-Man.

Anomander · Sep 23, 2020

You're gonna get better resolution/framerate for PS4 games that have dynamic resolution and/or unlocked framerate. For the rest you're at the mercy of developers/publishers.

Protome · Sep 23, 2020

It tells us, don't expect any upgrades beyond the bare minimum of what a boost mode provides without paying for them.

AwakenedCloud · Sep 23, 2020

CrichtonKicks said:
Of course it's a remaster. I don't think that was in any doubt.

CDPR is a strong proponent of goodwill and value. They added a lot of free content to TW3 post-release that most publishers would have charged a season pass for. When they did release paid expansions their quality was best in generation.

Most developers and publishers don't act like CDPR.

I'm kind of in a weird spot with the word. It clearly is on console, but if it just came out on PC, we'd probably just call it an enhancement update. That's really just semantics though.

I guess the crux of me bringing it up here was that people acted like it was an unreasonable request on the consumer's end since additional work is going in, when Microsoft and CDPR have done similar work.

JaseC64 · Sep 23, 2020

I wouldnt put this on the same level as Remedy's Control situation. Still its unfortunate that Sony is doing something similar but not as bad.

What Sony should do is let people but it for $20 as a standalone vs forcing people to get it only through the Ultimate Edition of $70. I get they are trying to maximize sales and likely will release it by itself eventually but some may not like that the only option for now is only $70.

CrichtonKicks · Sep 23, 2020

AwakenedCloud said:
I'm kind of in a weird spot with the word. It clearly is on console, but if it just came out on PC, we'd probably just call it an enhancement update. That's really just semantics though.

I guess the crux of me bringing it up here was that people acted like it was an unreasonable request on the consumer's end since additional work is going in, when Microsoft and CDPR have done similar work.

Let me ask this then- does anyone think that that there is a remote chance that GTA V for for Xbox S/X and PS5 will be a free upgrade? I know that I sure as hell don't.

Do we expect similar levels of outrage when Take 2 inevitably announces that it will be a paid remaster?

Metalsnakezero · Sep 23, 2020

Most I want for BC of PS4 games is to be able to play them PS5, regardless of improvements. That said it the usually business of reselling you old game with improvements at full price and that kinda sucky for all who want to get those.

Lego · Sep 23, 2020

It will be very basic. Games that run at unlocked frame rates will run higher, up to whatever cap they have. And games with dynamic resolutions will run at their max the majority of the time.

Games without those, might load a bit faster. Otherwise they'll be identical.

dep9000 · Sep 23, 2020

I think Sony will resell all their games from this gen as enhanced versions. GoT, TLoU2, Days Gone, etc. Maybe they add in all the DLC or with TLOU2 they'll add the multiplayer, but be prepared to rebuy these games. Stinks.

City 17 · Sep 23, 2020

bbq of doom said:
If you keep reading the title you'll see the letters "BC"; if you read the OP, it talks about enhancements made via BC. Those are inapplicable here as Spider-Man remastered is a separate game developed for a platform separate from the original.

It does not mean that you can't play Spider-Man PS4 on your PS5, and I believe there's even discussion of that in the other thread.

This is not BC, this is--once again--a separate title. It is not an upgrade insofar as you do not upgrade the original game. In fact, the only upgrade path available is from the base Miles Morales edition to the Ultimate edition, which adds the remaster (which is, once again, a separate SKU).

If Sony was selling an enhancement that uses the PS4 game--aka, you insert a PS4 disc and acquire a paid enhancement via the store--then you'd absolutely have a clear, cogent, and (imo) correct argument. As that is simply not the case, I am once again asking if you are positive you understand the questions and issues here.

I think you're being too rigid here, the bigger picture can be paid upgrade (even if minimal) vs. free upgrade path (either basic BC or with bells and whistles) for playing your previous games on new hardware. This is absolutely related to the topic.

Alek · Sep 23, 2020

Xando said:
You'll get the benefit of more stable framerate due to better hardware and that's it

I think also for games that have dynamic resolutions and things like that, you'll see them hit the upper end of that dynamic resolution consistently.

So, on the whole you should see a performance improvement in terms of framerate in many games, and a mild visual improvement in some games.

UglySofaGaming · Sep 23, 2020

The fact that Sony (Insomniac?) thought that a game from two years required a remaster paints a very grim picture of PS5's backwards compatibility improvements to be honest.

Either the remaster was an easy make because of the work done on Miles Morales in which case why are we paying, or the BC version is so milquetoast the remaster is in fact worth the value of its price

Not sure which is worse.

bbq of doom · Sep 23, 2020

City 17 said:
I think you're being too rigid here, the bigger picture can be paid upgrade (even if minimal) vs. free upgrade path (either basic BC or with bells and whistles) for playing your previous games on new hardware. This is absolutely related to the topic.

I'm not being rigid, I'm being precise.

Deleted member 54073 · Sep 23, 2020

That hopefully this is just a Disney thing

MercuryLS · Sep 23, 2020

I expect a patch with better resolution, frame rate and loading times to be free.

For something where there are significant upgrades I can understand charging a small fee for it. They should at least give people the option of spending $10 to upgrade Spider-Man PS4 to the store PS5 version.

City 17 · Sep 23, 2020

bbq of doom said:
I'm not being rigid, I'm being precise.

That's fine, but this is not quite "Nature Journal", it's a videogames discussion with so many intertwined topics. You're trying too hard on policing.

Rover_ · Sep 23, 2020

repeat with me people:

BC =/= upgrade patch

one is automatic at launch day for no additional charge, other is up to the studio to decide and do.

bbq of doom · Sep 23, 2020

City 17 said:
Thats fine, but this is not quite "Nature Journal", it's a videogames discussion with so many intertwined topics. You're trying too hard on policing.

I'm not policing anything, I'm just sticking to the topic at hand. You can talk about whatever you like, you're free to respond/not respond lol.

AwakenedCloud · Sep 23, 2020

CrichtonKicks said:
Let me ask this then- does anyone think that that there is a remote chance that GTA V for for Xbox S/X and PS5 will be a free upgrade? I know that I sure as hell don't.

Do we expect similar levels of outrage when Take 2 inevitably announces that it will be a paid remaster?

We know from Rockstar's history that probably won't be the case. I do hold Sony than Rockstar in this regard to a different standard on this particular feature. The former is trying to persuade me into buying their box over their competitor's and said competitor is offering this exact thing.

Aadiboy · Sep 23, 2020

When I put a PS1 disc into a PS2, I didn't expect it to magically turn into a PS2 game. Likewise, I don't expect to get full-on remasters for free on PS5, you can already play them for free via BC.

Nostremitus · Sep 23, 2020

It tells us that Sony has no intentions of providing enhancements for BC like Microsoft does.

Aadiboy said:
When I put a PS1 disc into a PS2, I didn't expect it to magically turn into a PS2 game. Likewise, I don't expect to get full-on remasters for free on PS5, you can already play them for free via BC.

That's cool and all, but when your competitor is doing it for free and you charge full game price for the privilege of getting on your console, it's a really bad look.

onpoint · Sep 23, 2020

carlsojo said:
Could just wait and see though instead of speculatiing.

Where's the fun in that? People need to lose their minds!

Gradly · Sep 23, 2020

Too early to decide. They made it like they did change the game to be on par with miles morales and if this is the case I'll double dip without being angry cuz miles morales looked amazing.

Keldroc · Sep 23, 2020

City 17 said:
Dude, "paid upgrade" is literally there in the title, it's a topic about both paid upgrades (which could've been free) and general BC.

This was never going to be free. This isn't BC enhancements, this isn't an upres, this isn't next gen features and upgrades planned for and budgeted in the original dev plan. This is a new remaster project with its own budget and own expenses that is rightly going to cost money to purchase. My only issue is locking it to the Ultimate Edition. If they're going to charge for it, then it should be available standalone.

RobbRivers · Sep 23, 2020

That sony does not care for their users in order to have more brand fidelity. I'm really upset with this. More over, not even savegames are carried. Damn! It is a 2yr old game!!

Dizastah · Sep 23, 2020

Equanimity said:
You would expect wrong.

How are you gonna tell someone what to personally expect?

Equanimity · Sep 23, 2020

Dizastah said:
How are you gonna tell someone what to expect?

Based on the information we've got directly from Sony, this poster is wrong.

Iwao · Sep 23, 2020

Gradly said:
Too early to decide. They made it like they did change the game to be on par with miles morales and if this is the case I'll double dip without being angry cuz miles morales looked amazing.

Yeah, this is how I'm looking at it. They wanted Spidey to feel like a brand new PS5 game as much as possible. I'm not sure to what extent the rest of their games will do the same, but we'll have to wait and see. Hopefully not too much longer.

What does a paid upgrade for Spider-Man tell us about PS5 BC?

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