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What do you think of chiropractors?
- Thread starter Fulminator
- Start date
There is almost certainly a spectrum to the level of care people receive, and it definitely differs if people are using it to treat specific muscle/joint related issues versus just going in for some physical relief.
But I can say with absolute certainty that it isn't some pseudo science or wholly worthless pursuit that some here are.
Saying that, i'm sure there's multiple ways to treat physical issues and a physiotherapist can tackle many of the problems that people are prescribed to chiropractors for.
Like most professions you're going to get some that are much better than others. The one i go to doesnt even make adjustments, she identifies which muscle is causing my pain and uses electro/heat/massage therapy on that area. Which is good for sprains and tweaks, this only costs me a $25 co pay.
If you have something more serious then I'd advise going to a physical therapist, but for alot of people thats very expensive. My insurance requires me to go to the doctor first ($100) and he will make me get x rays ($400-$500) THEN im allowed to see the PT.
If you have something more serious then I'd advise going to a physical therapist, but for alot of people thats very expensive. My insurance requires me to go to the doctor first ($100) and he will make me get x rays ($400-$500) THEN im allowed to see the PT.
OP
OP
but those two things aren't similar at all
anti-vaxxer is far more dangerous and vaccines are far more scientifically proven than chiropractics
Right, a group of people against a well known pseudoscience are just as bad as a movement that has literally brought back diseases that kill people.
What the fuck is this shit?
I hit yes on accident. It's complete nonsense. I went to one when I threw my back out and it didn't help what so ever. My Orthopedist recommended me some stretches to do and those work 1500000000000000000 times better then some lunatic trying to "adjust" your bones.
How so? Doctors will send people to them and insurance covers them, but there's an entire thread of non medical people saying it's all bullshit and a scam....
OP
OP
because people who are anti-chiropractor don't spread diseases that are entirely preventable by vaccine?
see people getting measles when we had that shit on lock with the vaccine
It's very much a pseudoscience. It's a field based on claims unsupported by scientific research and populated by practitioners whose education does not meet the standards of evidence-based medicine. Chiropractors regularly misrepresent their level of training and knowledge and peddle other bs ideas like anti-vaxx rhetoric and naturopathy.
Just because you personally experienced improvement does not absolve chiropractic of being pseudoscience. You can easily find more information online.
I urge you to do some actual research on the topic, because frankly, your position is absolutely inane.
No need to be facetious.
Both groups scare people that need the help of the practices into not getting them based on personal belief over actual medical training.
I get that, my wording was silly, but the point I'm trying to make, and why a lot of this thread comes across as utterly bizarre, is that they do treat and cure physical ailments with a degree of success.
Doctors prescribe the treatment. Insurance covers the treatment. The treatment literally improves people's physical conditions.
In steps ResetEra's medical professionals
OP
OP
i am not being facetious
if you can't see that one of these things is actually worse than the other idk what to tell you.
i feel like im being trolled right now
It is absolutely a pseudoscience and a dangerous one at that. It isn't evidence based.
Came to post this.
It blows my mind that even my friends that typically aren't susceptible to bullshit will go to one and then use gems like "I'll never go to another doctor again since I started going to this chiro".
At the end of the day, even if they're getting a physio session just labeled as chiro, they're still claiming a chiro "fixed" them and further propagating the dangerous idea that chiros in general are good. Others might think it's a good idea, go to one, and end up far worse than when they walked in.
Chiropractors do not have the level of training of actual medical professionals. The overwhelming majority of physicians do not consider chiropractic to be evidence-based medicine. Comparing skepticism of chiropractic to anti-vaxx is monumentally ignorant. Go to r/medicine and search for threads on chiropractic to see what actual physicians think.
It's great when you really need to crack your back and you just can't get it done on your own.
Otherwise... just go to a doctor for your medical issues, get a massage, and do some yoga.
Otherwise... just go to a doctor for your medical issues, get a massage, and do some yoga.
There's a reason why scummy automobile accident lawyers will send their clients to a chiropractor. I just don't understand why their opinions are even allowed in court.
I've worked with one for nine years. There is a lot of pseudoscience involved but the bread and butter of back manipulation, electrical stimulation, massage seems to help a lot of patients (even if it most likely is placebo) while being fairly innocuous. Neck manipulation is actually dangerous though and should be avoided.
Overall though, just see a physical therapist.
Overall though, just see a physical therapist.
People always get really dramatic going against them, but getting your back cracked does feel nice and does offer some about of temporary relief in the same way a massage would. If you're feeling a little stiff and your insurance covers it there isn't any harm in going (just make sure they don't touch your neck), and don't listen to them if they start telling you about how they can cure your flu by punching above your ass crack.
That said I don't go to them cause it's cheaper for me to get a massage and I don't have to feel like I'm supporting their weird industry.
That said I don't go to them cause it's cheaper for me to get a massage and I don't have to feel like I'm supporting their weird industry.
OP
OP
massage sounds fine but I'd be worried about getting my back cracked tbh
One of my best friends is an extremely accomplished physiotherapist, we have discussed the topic at length. His summary is that it is not always useless as a supplemental treatment when done correctly, but it often oversteps its bounds, and can be a complete lottery where you can often end up with practitioners who have no real biomechanical or anatomical knowledge, which can then cause damage. I can only defer to his expertise.
He's my favorite. He has a great relationship with his patients.
Still think a lot of what he does is quackery though.
Chiropractic only ever helps by accident or if the practitioner employs proven PT/OT/sports medicine techniques.
I'm a neurosurgeon whose specialties are pain and spine surgery. In fact, I have 2 cervical spine operations scheduled tomorrow.
I feel like I've commented on this issue a number of times between here and the old site.
Yes, chiropractic is pseudoscience. It is also a placebo. Sometimes the placebo works. Sometimes it results in tremendous damage.
I have personally operated on (at least) 2 patients with vertebral artery dissections secondary to neck manipulation. They required a posterior fossa decompression, which is removing the bottom back of your skull to allow the ischemic cerebellum to swell and not kill you. One patient died, the other was left in a nursing home. This is a rare incident, compared to the likely millions of necks cracked it would take to result in one dissection. Maybe these people already had arterial irregularities; hard to say as they were never investigated because they were so young.
Most people who go to chiropractors get their backs cracked; a lot feel better, and a lot swear by it. Patients often come to surgeons looking for surgical answers to their back pain, when in fact there are none. Back pain is rarely a surgical problem, and when it is, you usually have other problems as well. I tell patients they need to lose weight, stop smoking, see a physical therapist. Some patients do, many do not. Chiropractic is an easy, passive "solution". Some patients do not want to put in work and effort towards improving their health, hence why they demand surgery and will continue to "shop around" until they find a willing (or more than likely, greedy) surgeon.
Back pain is multifactorial. As I've already mentioned, anatomy is only a small contribution. We know that pain is composed of sensation, cognitive, and affective components, meaning that 2/3 of all pain is in your head and based on your perceptions. We have loads of evidence that depressed people do worse with surgery or spinal cord stimulation for pain, smokers do worse, obese people do worse (maybe, still contentious).
So why does it work for some people? Probably because they want it to work. Feeling and hearing a cracking sound is cathartic and is a physical sign that "something" has happened. Although that something is actually nothing, it remains a powerful motivator.
Do we recommend chiropractic care? Never for the neck. Maybe for the back, depending on what conservative measures you've already tried and/or failed, and depending on how motivated (or not) you are in taking control of your own health.
I feel like I've commented on this issue a number of times between here and the old site.
Yes, chiropractic is pseudoscience. It is also a placebo. Sometimes the placebo works. Sometimes it results in tremendous damage.
I have personally operated on (at least) 2 patients with vertebral artery dissections secondary to neck manipulation. They required a posterior fossa decompression, which is removing the bottom back of your skull to allow the ischemic cerebellum to swell and not kill you. One patient died, the other was left in a nursing home. This is a rare incident, compared to the likely millions of necks cracked it would take to result in one dissection. Maybe these people already had arterial irregularities; hard to say as they were never investigated because they were so young.
Most people who go to chiropractors get their backs cracked; a lot feel better, and a lot swear by it. Patients often come to surgeons looking for surgical answers to their back pain, when in fact there are none. Back pain is rarely a surgical problem, and when it is, you usually have other problems as well. I tell patients they need to lose weight, stop smoking, see a physical therapist. Some patients do, many do not. Chiropractic is an easy, passive "solution". Some patients do not want to put in work and effort towards improving their health, hence why they demand surgery and will continue to "shop around" until they find a willing (or more than likely, greedy) surgeon.
Back pain is multifactorial. As I've already mentioned, anatomy is only a small contribution. We know that pain is composed of sensation, cognitive, and affective components, meaning that 2/3 of all pain is in your head and based on your perceptions. We have loads of evidence that depressed people do worse with surgery or spinal cord stimulation for pain, smokers do worse, obese people do worse (maybe, still contentious).
So why does it work for some people? Probably because they want it to work. Feeling and hearing a cracking sound is cathartic and is a physical sign that "something" has happened. Although that something is actually nothing, it remains a powerful motivator.
Do we recommend chiropractic care? Never for the neck. Maybe for the back, depending on what conservative measures you've already tried and/or failed, and depending on how motivated (or not) you are in taking control of your own health.
If you have an injury or a serious issue with your body please see an MD or a specialist with an advanced medical educsation before you go anywhere else. If you wish to pursue non evidence based or alternative medicine at least do so after consulting someone with an incontroversial science based education, license and pratice. If you still want to consider alternative medicine, chiropractor physical therapy or a placebo-level psychologiucal therapy please ensure it is safe to do so first. Some doctors will even suggest it with caveats.
If you don't like opinions like this then at least concede statistics and repeatable tangible outcomes. It is NEVER EVER smart or viable to use unproven quackery to deal with potentially serious physical problems and even "harmless" stuff like accupuncture can send more gullible people down a super dangerous path. Chiropractors CAN provide basic physical therapy as can massage, fitness coaching and many other additional approaches to a physical problem. Everything beyond that is in the scientific Journaling of outcomes and statistics. Oh and everything south of that is super dangerous bullshit.
If you are considering a "traditional" or "alternative" medicine, there may well be some outside chance it is based in sound logic, practrice or harmless placebo value - but it is much more likely you're the victim of fraud, delusion or simple ignorance.
If you don't like opinions like this then at least concede statistics and repeatable tangible outcomes. It is NEVER EVER smart or viable to use unproven quackery to deal with potentially serious physical problems and even "harmless" stuff like accupuncture can send more gullible people down a super dangerous path. Chiropractors CAN provide basic physical therapy as can massage, fitness coaching and many other additional approaches to a physical problem. Everything beyond that is in the scientific Journaling of outcomes and statistics. Oh and everything south of that is super dangerous bullshit.
If you are considering a "traditional" or "alternative" medicine, there may well be some outside chance it is based in sound logic, practrice or harmless placebo value - but it is much more likely you're the victim of fraud, delusion or simple ignorance.
It's quackery. I wouldn't recommend wasting any money or time on seeing one. See an actual MD if you're having a serious issue.
Lot of my cowworkers swear by them, but also need to go at least once a week for treatment.
Point out that, hmm, kinda strange you never get better, and they get pissy and defensive.
Many go because it's way cheaper than seeing a real doctor.
Point out that, hmm, kinda strange you never get better, and they get pissy and defensive.
Many go because it's way cheaper than seeing a real doctor.
I'm with the its pseudoscience crowd
But, a good friend is a chiro. He spent years in school and I like to hope he's pretty medically trained on how to do it.
But then I see a vid of him cracking a neck and it looks like Superman breaking Zod's in Man of Steel.
But I keep my mouth shut because he has a lot of our friends believing in it if they didn't already, and people just get mad when you argue 'beliefs.'
But, a good friend is a chiro. He spent years in school and I like to hope he's pretty medically trained on how to do it.
But then I see a vid of him cracking a neck and it looks like Superman breaking Zod's in Man of Steel.
But I keep my mouth shut because he has a lot of our friends believing in it if they didn't already, and people just get mad when you argue 'beliefs.'
It's also not a coincidence that the country in the world with the highest cost of scientifically rational healthcare has the highest proportion of insurance-covered (much cheaper) quackery - and that should NOT sound like validation to anyone who can do math,
