What Daenerys Targaryen meant to me (full GOT spoilers)

[House_Of_Lightning]

I don't feel bad for Dany fans. Dany always had those red flags following her from the very start, ya'll just didn't want to see it.

The rushed pace of these last two seasons is the big problem, though



Yup, Dany had no true intention of breaking the wheel. She was the wheel.

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Ultimate irony: Her victory would have preserved the system. Her failure introduced democratic reforms, abolished hereditary autocracy, democratized the advisory council, and allowed more independence within the continent.

Dany ultimately fulfilled her goal. She just had to die to do it.

 

[RockTiddies]

Just gonna take this opportunity to say that Era has never been as progressive as it pats itself on the back for, but the reaction of men towards women criticising the sexism of this show (and specifically this season/episode) is fucking disgusting and embarrassing even by this place's standards.

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That you want to make a fictional character with major flaws (even with good intentions) as a paragon of progressive ideals and your OPINION is more valid than someone else who watches the show and thinks otherwise make this almost equivalent to a fan being mad their shipping OTP fantasies aren't met out.

EDIT: we can argue the process to getting there was hamfisted. You can argue the character change and ideals trampled were a travesty. To pre-emptively question the progressive ideals of fans of the show who have a different opinion on a fictional work with more elusive examples is....questionable.

 

[Sephzilla]

The tl'dr on Dany is basically "don't drink your own kool aid".

She started to buy into her own hype and think that everything she did was the right way to do it.

 

[Pezking]

Daenerys was a deeply traumatized woman who had to endure tons of abuse.

What gave her the strength necessary to survive all that was her strong belief that she was destined for greatness. She learned how to cope with her pain by telling herself a story and believing in it.

Everything she did on her journey was based on that. And she had a lot of success. Her belief grew, and the people started to see her as a force of destiny as well. She tried to achieve her goals by being merciful. By helping others. By fighting the bad guys. She hoped that once she reaches her goal, the Iron Throne, that everything would be fine. That her pain would vanish.

But it didn't.

She experienced further loss and rejection. All while having the power to just take what she wants with violence.

Daenerys didn't become mad. She didn't become evil. She became angry when the bells rang, when she had achieved her goal - but the pain still remained.

That's also why she decided to continue her conquest even after the destruction of King's Landing. In order to "free" the entire world. Her journey gives her strenght and comfort. She can't stop. She has to be the master of her own story, and that story cannot end.

I don't see Daenerys as a villain. Her life, her fate is deeply tragic. She's another broken human in a fundamentally broken world.

 

[Deleted member 2809]

When you want to setup a villain worse than Joffrey, Cersei and Ramsay combined, but do it in the penultimate episode with no buildup
LOL
Honestly fuck d&d

 

[Meows]

Her ending with Drogon flying away with her could have been beautifully tragic and poetic if they didn't have her go insane in just two episodes (the penultimate and finale specifically which makes it even worse). This needed a whole proper season to develop, with her slowly losing everything she had built and getting chipped away at as she finally reached where she always wanted to be. We needed to see her react. We needed more "show" and less "tell" - this entire storyline was all "tell." I don't have a problem with her character arc at all, though it is by far the most tragic of anyone on the show, but the fact that they rushed an entire season developing their co-protagonist just so they could get to Star Wars.

Also, it was a big mistake to film her death scene as a big "shocking" moment instead of giving it the proper gravitas to both her and Jon. We knew why Jon was there. Contrast this to Tyrion murdering Shae and you can see how terrible it was done. There was so much emotion there. This was kind of a little fart.

 

[shnurgleton]

Dany was just another perpetuator of the destructive paternalistic tendencies of westeros. She sought revenge against the system by becoming the system just with different set dressing. She was not change, just more fire and blood, and this goes for her stint in Essos as well

 

[WellbornWarrior]

I don't get why people are abandoning the whole franchise including the books because of the bad ending instead of just rejecting the bad fan fiction that the series turned into years ago.

 

[facepalm007]

It was clear to me from season 1 she was going to go bad. The issue was how they rushed it in season 8 not that she went mad queen I think.

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This is my thought as well. This final season is so rushed that her end felt undeserved.
Sure her "madness" is foreshadowed, but foreshadowing is not character development.

 

[cwmartin]

Part of experiencing it is having an opinion on it. The OP has laid out a coherent critique, if you want to engage with that critique go for it.

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OP has laid out a very laborious and exasperating tirade on why they feel personal about the outcome of one of the biggest TV shows in history. My engagement is that this is unhealthy.

 

[Piggus]

Sorry.
Is she in a mall?

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This whole "comfort animal" trend is getting out of hand.

 

[Deusmico]

i wasn't a fan of specifically a character, i see the whole story.

people wanting a character to "win the throne" was just marketing.

dany broke the whell, with her death, and saved westeros from the white walkers threat. she needed a scene in the epilogue i think...

 

[Pilgrimzero]

While I agree it was quick to happen, it was obvious. She's always been out to stomp out anyone in her way. She even arrives in town and tells Jon to "bend a knee". She came to get her kingdom come hell or high water.

She was nice to those who followed her or got out of her way and ruthless to those who stood in her way.

Her going "full brutal" wasn't a surprise, it's just the short amount of time to show it. See also the war with the white walkers.

 

[NinjaGarden]

Suddenly "liberating people" means burning them alive. It was bizarre.

 

[Principate]

I feel that Dany's end goal of breaking the chain or world domination made sense and consistent with what we knew of the character. Even a good and rational Dany I feel would have pursued this. She never seemed to care much for ruling in peaceful times which was her fatal flaw really. Ruling westeros by bloodright and breaking the wheel are incompatible goals. What can you expect her 3 dragons to do in peaceful times other than to dissapear or terrorize the locals. The excution of her descent the reasons for it are all terrible. Though I feel her finale one way or another required a lot more character work than what he had up to the end of this show.

 

[Swiggins]

I'm with you 100% OP.

They fucking murdered her character...I cant fucking believe the shit D&D think they can get away with.

 

[Deleted member 2809]

I don't get why people are abandoning the whole franchise including the books because of the bad ending instead of just rejecting the bad fan fiction that the series turned into years ago.

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This season trashed several characters, good guys and villains.

 

[DrForester]

She was always destined to be the mad queen, but the show did a shit job building to it. And that's pretty much s8 in a nutshell.

Last night's finale was a fine way to end the series. The buildup to get there was just terrible.

 

[Persephone]

Suddenly "liberating people" means burning them alive. It was bizarre.

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"People of King's Landing, I pardon you... from life."

 

[Deleted member 5666]

This is my thought as well. This final season is so rushed that her end felt undeserved.
Sure her "madness" is foreshadowed, but foreshadowing is not character development.

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Yep. It was foreshadowed and was clear for years she would go mad queen. But they rushed it way too quickly, they needed to do it more naturally over more episodes.

 

[Astral]

I thought the path she was headed became more and more clear as the show went on. You're supposed to root for her at first but then slowly realize there's something wrong. The execution was of course terrible. It needed more time to cook. Genetics being a reason for her madness is absurd. I refuse to believe that. The way I saw it, she felt like just some foreigner. She felt invalidated. She worked so hard to get to Westeros, to fulfill what people have been telling her is her destiny, went through so much shit. Yet when she gets to Westeros, she feels isolated. The people, in her eyes, don't love her like they did in the islands. They don't love her like they loved Jon. On top of that she learns she was never even the rightful heir to begin with. So then what was it all for? Then her best friend and son are killed by Cersei. Shit just kept piling up and she understandably loses it. I wish they had explored this more. Committing fucking genocide was overkill and ridiculous.

 

[Damerman]

though heavily biased towards the character, I can appreciate ur post, but it's more to do with the rushed seasons 7 and 8. The bad writing lends a little bit of credence to what you are saying. But daenerys is doing fucked up shit even in the books. I think the heel turn is gonna happen in the books, but it's gonna be done in a more elaborate way. I think we should read the books(if they ever come out) before we disagree with the end of Dany's arc.

 

[Brazil]

I don't get why people are abandoning the whole franchise including the books because of the bad ending instead of just rejecting the bad fan fiction that the series turned into years ago.

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I mean, if they're really that opposed to seeing Daenerys do some shit and die for it, which will absolutely happen in the books as well but just in a more fleshed-out way, then it's probably for the best.

 

[Sephzilla]

 

[BlastProcessing]

OP has laid out a very laborious and exasperating tirade on why they feel personal about the outcome of one of the biggest TV shows in history. My engagement is that this is unhealthy.

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But sniping without engaging is more healthy?

 

[TheMan]

Her rushed turn to madness and villainy will be the worst thing the show ever did. There was a way to get there and they completely failed at doing it

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exactly. The idea made sense but the execution was just so botched, so rushed. The show creators spent all this time and effort building an intricate, intrguiging world and then just fucked up at the end by their own choice.

 

[Znazzy]

I appreciate you taking the time to write all of that out, OP. Even if I don't necessarily agree with it, it's a good perspective. Ultimately, I don't have a single issue with what happened - it's the pacing. If they would've actually taken the time to flesh things out, it would've been a perfect execution. The sudden heel turn is what was jarring and made the delivery mediocre at best. With that being said...

Developing this level of emotional attachment and investment to fictional characters (and, to be fair, this is approximately 1/100th of the Luke Skywalker attachment) is baffling to me.

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Pretty much this. It's a TV show. Not saying that it's not normal to get emotionally attached to a show and it's characters, but this level of attachment borders on a bit extreme IMO.

Just gonna take this opportunity to say that Era has never been as progressive as it pats itself on the back for, but the reaction of men towards women criticising the sexism of this show (and specifically this season/episode) is fucking disgusting and embarrassing even by this place's standards.

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You do realize that this show doesn't take place in 2019, correct? You're placing current societal norms and expectations to a show that takes place centuries ago.

 

[More_Badass]

This is why you watch the show to see what happens, not to cheer on your favorite like your watching a basketball game. This wasn't your story to tell, you just get to experience it.

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Okay, what does that have to do with the critique of how the character and events were written in this final season compared to how she was written and portrayed before?

exactly. The idea made sense but the execution was just so botched, so rushed. The show creators spent all this time and effort building an intricate, intrguiging world and then just fucked up at the end by their own choice.

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Basically. The possibility was always there and the concept isn't the problem. Rushing into it without the set-up and well-paced downfall showing that shift in her character was the problem

 

[tuxfool]

She never seemed to care much for ruling in peaceful times which was her fatal flaw really.

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Tried to do it. Just wasn't good at it.

 

[Deleted member 3897]

Daenerys was a deeply traumatized woman who had to endure tons of abuse.

What gave her the strength necessary to survive all that was her strong belief that she was destined for greatness. She learned how to cope with her pain by telling herself a story and believing in it.

Everything she did on her journey was based on that. And she had a lot of success. Her belief grew, and the people started to see her as a force of destiny as well. She tried to achieve her goals by being merciful. By helping others. By fighting the bad guys. She hoped that once she reaches her goal, the Iron Throne, that everything would be fine. That her pain would vanish.

But it didn't.

She experienced further loss and rejection. All while having the power to just take what she wants with violence.

Daenerys didn't become mad. She didn't become evil. She became angry when the bells rang, when she had achieved her goal - but the pain still remained.

That's also why she decided to continue her conquest even after the destruction of King's Landing. In order to "free" the entire world. Her journey gives her strenght and comfort. She can't stop. She has to be the master of her own story, and that story cannot end.

I don't see Daenerys as a villain. Her life, her fate is deeply tragic. She's another broken human in a fundamentally broken world.

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Your post reminded me off this:

According to r/gameofthrones, apparently GRRM responded to this blog post from 2013 with "This guy gets it" regarding Dany:
Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/gameofthrones/comments/bo1ast/spoilers_found_on_twitter_apparently_grrm/

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[cwmartin]

But sniping without engaging is more healthy?

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You'll have to wait until my 13 paragraph thread before you can safely make a measured determination on my health. Let it go. I think all this fandom around single characters, and feeling extremely personal about fictional characters outcomes in a TV show is unhealthy and childish.

 

[Eidan]

As many have said, I have no problem with Daenerys burning King's Landing. But there was a way to properly build to that and prepare the audience for it. Nothing about the Daenerys depicted on screen would ever make me think she'd go street by street burning men, women, and children after having already secured a victory over her opponent.

Now could I see Daenerys getting to that point? Sure. They really should have set up that kind of ruthlessness when she was in Meereen.

 

[Persephone]

That you want to make a fictional character with major flaws (even with good intentions) as a paragon of progressive ideals and your OPINION is more valid than someone else who watches the show and thinks otherwise make this almost equivalent to a fan being mad their shipping OTP fantasies aren't met out.

EDIT: we can argue the process to getting there was hamfisted. You can argue the character change and ideals trampled were a travesty. To pre-emptively question the progressive ideals of fans of the show who have a different opinion on a fictional work with more elusive examples is....questionable.

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I didn't say liking the show makes you sexist. But the fact remains that almost every time a female poster here tries to lay out her problems with the show's portrayal of women (and in this case, because it's relevant, specifically Dany) she's misgendered and accused of being a rabid stan or butthurt her waifu didn't win and on and on and on over and over again because people are apparently terrified of engaging with criticism of media they enjoy. Articles have been written about the show's sexism problem. Many more will be, after this ending. But every single fucking time, there will be a horde of men swooping in to lecture about how we're just PC police looking to be offended, and it's fucking exhausting.

 

[Forkball]

+Dany is a victim of a cruel society and is a toy for men
+Learns to persevere and not be defined by the desires of others
+Wishes to free others from the oppression she faced, yet also struggles with the consequences of upending a power structure
+Although she returns home, she feels like a foreigner and is alienated from the country's political structure
+SCENE MISSING
+Burn baby burn disco inferno

 

[Meows]

I've said this, like, a million times but imagine how great Emilia Clarke could have sold an entire season of her slowly losing it all. She was brilliant in the last two episodes, she would have owned this.

 

[Damerman]

Her ending with Drogon flying away with her could have been beautifully tragic and poetic if they didn't have her go insane in just two episodes (the penultimate and finale specifically which makes it even worse). This needed a whole proper season to develop, with her slowly losing everything she had built and getting chipped away at as she finally reached where she always wanted to be. We needed to see her react. We needed more "show" and less "tell" - this entire storyline was all "tell." I don't have a problem with her character arc at all, though it is by far the most tragic of anyone on the show, but the fact that they rushed an entire season developing their co-protagonist just so they could get to Star Wars.

Also, it was a big mistake to film her death scene as a big "shocking" moment instead of giving it the proper gravitas to both her and Jon. We knew why Jon was there. Contrast this to Tyrion murdering Shae and you can see how terrible it was done. There was so much emotion there. This was kind of a little fart.

Click to shrink...

I dunno, it was still very tragic for me. I felt bad for her at the end. I really did. I loved the character, even when people were shitting on her from season 4 onward.

 

[Doober]

Just gonna take this opportunity to say that Era has never been as progressive as it pats itself on the back for, but the reaction of men towards women criticising the sexism of this show (and specifically this season/episode) is fucking disgusting and embarrassing even by this place's standards.

Click to shrink...

I... don't see that here, and it's becoming increasingly apparent that you've got a different axe to grind beyond just a beloved character.

 

[Deepwater]

Ultimate irony: Her victory would have preserved the system. Her failure introduced democratic reforms, abolished hereditary autocracy, democratized the advisory council, and allowed more independence within the continent.

Dany ultimately fulfilled her goal. She just had to die to do it.

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Yes her failure resulted in a king-for-life (cause who knows when Bran will die).

Big victory

 

[HellforLeather]

Ultimate irony: Her victory would have preserved the system. Her failure introduced democratic reforms, abolished hereditary autocracy, democratized the advisory council, and allowed more independence within the continent.

Dany ultimately fulfilled her goal. She just had to die to do it.

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Yeah, Tyrion spells this out exactly at the end.

 

[PeskyToaster]

She's still my queen after that sick dragon wings shot.

 

[House_Of_Lightning]

That you want to make a fictional character with major flaws (even with good intentions) as a paragon of progressive ideals and your OPINION is more valid than someone else who watches the show and thinks otherwise make this almost equivalent to a fan being mad their shipping OTP fantasies aren't met out.

EDIT: we can argue the process to getting there was hamfisted. You can argue the character change and ideals trampled were a travesty. To pre-emptively question the progressive ideals of fans of the show who have a different opinion on a fictional work with more elusive examples is....questionable.

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Love how we're trying to cancel someone's "progressive card" when they question the thought process and support behind a fictional, reactionary, brutal, mass murdering white savior.

 

[Deleted member 721]

 

[TheFuzz]

that ending was basically stark fanservice

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The entire concept revolved around the Starks and how their individual stories would be told throughout the war.

People can be upset about the show, but don't be upset with GRRM. It was his story to tell and the endings fit for the most part (even if the show sucked at getting us there).

 

[Damerman]

Daenerys was a deeply traumatized woman who had to endure tons of abuse.

What gave her the strength necessary to survive all that was her strong belief that she was destined for greatness. She learned how to cope with her pain by telling herself a story and believing in it.

Everything she did on her journey was based on that. And she had a lot of success. Her belief grew, and the people started to see her as a force of destiny as well. She tried to achieve her goals by being merciful. By helping others. By fighting the bad guys. She hoped that once she reaches her goal, the Iron Throne, that everything would be fine. That her pain would vanish.

But it didn't.

She experienced further loss and rejection. All while having the power to just take what she wants with violence.

Daenerys didn't become mad. She didn't become evil. She became angry when the bells rang, when she had achieved her goal - but the pain still remained.

That's also why she decided to continue her conquest even after the destruction of King's Landing. In order to "free" the entire world. Her journey gives her strenght and comfort. She can't stop. She has to be the master of her own story, and that story cannot end.

I don't see Daenerys as a villain. Her life, her fate is deeply tragic. She's another broken human in a fundamentally broken world.

Click to shrink...

Perfectly said. This is how I felt, but didn't know how to properly articulate it.

 

[Anubis]

Agreed with OP. Her character and arc resonated with cultures worldwide but the show runners sloppily and hastily assassinated her progression. It is a complete miscarriage of story telling.

 

[Double 0]

The "Dany wants to be the wheel" idea is a true one, hence Drogon destroying the throne.

But I do think D&D did the character a massive disservice, among other characters.

As for the whole no pedestal thing. True, but inspiration isn't bad. And watching that inspiration be turned into something negative hurts. I don't see why that is so baffling.

 

[Xaszatm]

I... don't see that here, and it's becoming increasingly apparent that you've got a different axe to grind beyond just a beloved character.

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OP's last GOT thread was filled with assholes mocking her for being a fangirl and throwing bile at her for daring to feel this for a character. Here's it's better but people are still apprehensive.

 

[Froli]

Star wars man lol

 

[FantaSoda]

I'll be honest I was totally starting to buy back into Dany during her last speech with Jon. I thought she was making some really good points and I was ready to come back to Team Dany.

 

[Doober]

OP's last GOT thread was filled with assholes mocking her for being a fangirl and throwing bile at her for daring to feel this for a character. Here's it's better but people are still apprehensive.

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My apologies, then. Didn't catch that one.