• Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
  • We have made minor adjustments to how the search bar works on ResetEra. You can read about the changes here.

Aether

Member
Jan 6, 2018
4,421
Probably everything that doesn't make it an emergent action game where you just rely on a set of core mechanics to do everything.

My favorite thing about Zelda is the diversity of things you will be doing mandatorily. It's all about entering new places full of puzzles and unique boss enemies and trash mobs to me. I don't care the combat isn't advanced. It's good enough that it's fun to do and the enemy variety is really diverse and so are the biomes. You consistently unlock a new real-time mechanic from start to finish that allows you to do new things. That's what gives it a feeling of adventure imo, like the boy pulling the sword from the stone or getting the magic elixir. I feel like I'm doing those things as a player. It's so much more fulfilling than games where you point and shoot at anything that moves or point and clicks where you just do minimal interaction and watch everything happen from afar.

I mostly give you right with that, and youre the first one that focuses on that aspect of the series. Great.

Speaking personally the lock-on, movement, and "platforming" is incredibly awkward to those not familiar with the 3D games. OoT/MM/WW/TP all fall into this with SS slightly improving upon it and BOTW heavily improving upon that.
Yeah... the N64 games, when they released where A-OK and better than most other 3D games. With years it just feelt more strict, and less responsive.
Wind Waker improved it somewhat, but did not go far enough. It still fellt better then The old ones, but was at the same time restricted by them. Twilight Princess was a desaster, even on release i did not like how linke feels to controll, neither the sword swinging, running in circles, use of some items, and especially not the wolf.
Skyward sword: better. The game has so many problems, im not shure if the controlls where good. The sword fighting, i really liked, and some items (bow) were great, the loftwind was.... bad.

BotW is the first Zelda in 20 Years to feel great on release. It is still not perfect, but it is what the series should have done 10 years earlier with Twilight Princess.
 
OP
OP
hwarang

hwarang

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,452
Probably everything that doesn't make it an emergent action game where you just rely on a set of core mechanics to do everything.

My favorite thing about Zelda is the diversity of things you will be doing mandatorily. It's all about entering new places full of puzzles and unique boss enemies and trash mobs to me. I don't care the combat isn't advanced. It's good enough that it's fun to do and the enemy variety is really diverse and so are the biomes. You consistently unlock a new real-time mechanic from start to finish that allows you to do new things. That's what gives it a feeling of adventure imo, like the boy pulling the sword from the stone or getting the magic elixir. I feel like I'm doing those things as a player. It's so much more fulfilling than games where you point and shoot at anything that moves or point and clicks where you just do minimal interaction and watch everything happen from afar.

To be fair, I actually liked the boss battles of Phantom Hourglass. But that's really about it. The dungeon design, time constraint and I guess the overall design was ugh..
 

Lork

Member
Oct 25, 2017
843
I'm just fascinated by the circumstances that lead to the making of this thread. Like what on earth possessed you to choose Phantom Hourglass of all games as a representative example of the Zelda series as a whole?

Were you ready to write BOTW off for fear it might be full of repetitive timed stealth dungeons and awkward touch controls?
 

LumberPanda

Member
Feb 3, 2019
6,357
I love the dungeons and puzzles, but can't stand the amount of busy work it takes to actually get to go in the dungeons from OoT-SS.

Talk to the 8 people 3 different towns, now run accross the giant flat field, now find the magic glass to climb the invisible ladder to get the fish guy to scoot his butt so you can feed mr grumble, now stomp on your right foot (don't forget it!). Okay now you can play the dungeon.
 

Rosebud

Two Pieces
Member
Apr 16, 2018
43,597
In BOTW the stamina bar, the breaking weapons, the lack of waypoints, the obligatory seeds to increase inventory (all with a small puzzle)..... just not for me.
 

ohitsluca

Member
Oct 29, 2017
731
I didn't finish MM because i didn't enjoy the Groundhog Day mechanic, at all. Felt like it didn't add anything interesting or fun to the gameplay, just made me more stressed about the clock and less willing to explore like I wanted to
 

Deleted member 8752

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
10,122
I really do think Link to the Past is the best entry point for the series for a newcomer today. It's free on Switch too if you have a Nintendo online account.
 

SkywardBeam

Member
Oct 25, 2017
409
I will probably never understand how anyone could in good conscience recommend playing Spirit Tracks over Phantom Hourglass. Traveling by boat in PH has at least some semblance of fun, but this f***ing train in ST is the absolute worst. The dungeons are actually quite enjoyable, I'll give it that, but getting there just sucks every last bit of enjoyment one could possibly have right out of the game. But I'm not exactly fond of either of the two, if only for them retroactively destroying the perfect ending of Wind Waker.
 

Deleted member 54073

User requested account closure
Banned
Feb 22, 2019
3,983
No traditional stats, no experience gain, no levelling up.. these are some of the reasons that put me off BOTW. Couple that with Nintendo not having any achievements then theres no real reason to do alot of the stuff in that game other than get through what very little story there is.
 

Aether

Member
Jan 6, 2018
4,421
I disagree 100%.. BOTW was 1 step ahead ( freedom ) and many many steps back. ( combat.. music.. dungeons.. story.. weapons breaking.. etc etc )
combat: way more options, more dynamic... i think the combat got better then ever (ok,maybe not better than Skyward sword when it workes...;) )
music: i like it way more than Twilight Princess/Skyward sword, and its on a level with wind waker.
dungeons: lacking,but not bad. i liked the ideas, ihope they expand all of that, and have different decores for the dungeons...so, probably, yeah.
story: maybe? OoT had a pretty basic story. But yeah, story was not great. Its kinda a parody of zelda stories.
weapons breaking: great mechanic. But divisice, shure.
 

Xenoblade 3

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,953
New York City
I love the puzzles in Zelda. They are puzzling enough to feel satisfying to complete, but also simple enough that you dont get stuck and frustrated.
There were 1-2 head scratchers in BotW, like the constellation ones. I liked them.
 
Aug 28, 2019
440
I haven't played them all - far from it - but while there are some that I like, A Link to the Past is probably the only one that I'm really attached to. I think the problem for me is that the series feels so repetitive, in both scenario and gameplay, and offers little challenge. ALttP executed its design to perfection, but the ones I've played since then just feel like sloppier, less interesting versions of that same game (except BotW, I guess, which I don't really like for other reasons). I guess I feel like ALttP is simple but works, and offers as much as a 2D adventure game needs to, whereas the 3D Zeldas in particular are simple in a way that just leaves me feeling unsatisfied with the experience.

But to be fair, I have not played ALttP in some years. Maybe it's too simple for my taste, now, too. Or maybe I'm just nostalgic.
 
OP
OP
hwarang

hwarang

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,452
I'm just fascinated by the circumstances that lead to the making of this thread. Like what on earth possessed you to choose Phantom Hourglass of all games as a representative example of the Zelda series as a whole?

Were you ready to write BOTW off for fear it might be full of repetitive timed stealth dungeons and awkward touch controls?

It's got like a 90 on Metacritic. So I gave it a shot. Besides the boss battles, it was just incredibly boring.
 

Nintendo

Prophet of Regret
Member
Oct 27, 2017
13,383
The lack of proper cutscenes, character interactions, and voice acting. Text boxes are a huge turn off for many people including me.
 

Linde

Banned
Sep 2, 2018
3,983
Phantom hourglass is one of my favourite games...
but its not a popular zelda game on the internet
you should really try botw
or even a link between worlds
 

Hecht

Blue light comes around
Administrator
Oct 24, 2017
9,734
LTTP is a great entry point. It's also the best one.
 

wtd2009

Member
Oct 27, 2017
985
Oregon
Hmmm, I'll have to give BotW a spin again sometime then. Just need to finish my backlog for four generations of PlayStation first 👀
Don't worry, I made that mistake too. I spent a few hours roaming into areas that were stronger than me, without a tower to unveil a map of where I was and where the first village was, getting a little frustrated. I finally realized there was a whole quest log with other quests to choose from and that got me going.
 

DragonKeeper

Member
Nov 14, 2017
1,588
I never could get into this super popular franchise. I tried Phantom Hourglass and the whole dungeon / puzzle aspect just got old fast. I don't honestly know the appeal of this. Yes Phantom Hourglass was the entry point for me to seriously try out the franchise.

the-legend-of-zelda-phantom-hourglass-ocean-king-temple.jpg


Granted I haven't tried Ocarina of Time or BOTW.
Yeah.....As other have said, that was a bad starting point. Nintendo got experimental with Zelda on the DS and it didn't go well. For a traditional Zelda title I'd recommend Ocarina of time or Twilight Princess for 3D games, and Link to the Past, Link's Awakening, and Link Between Worlds for 2D games.

For something a little different I highly recommend Majora's Mask, which adds sleuthing out the activities of townsfolk while trapped in a groundhog's day style time loop.

Wind Waker is okay, but is a bit spare in content and you spend a lot of time sailing the empty seas.

Beyond those, you could play any other Zelda game other than Phantom Hourglass or Spirit Tracks and have a solid Zelda experience, though the class NES games can be rough.

Then your have Breath of the Wild which takes the original concepts for the series and starts with them from scratch for something that feels both familiar while going in a truly different direction. I love it and it immediately became one of my all time favorite games. Breath of the Wild itself is not a bad starting point since you'd be playing it without being attached to old series conventions.
 
Oct 27, 2017
12,756
Don't worry, I made that mistake too. I spent a few hours roaming into areas that were stronger than me, without a tower to unveil a map of where I was and where the first village was, getting a little frustrated. I finally realized there was a whole quest log with other quests to choose from and that got me going.

I did some of the side quest stuff, but eventually just got bored of the game and how empty it was and how little story there was. I'll pick it up again sometime, I guess.
 

RedSwirl

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,061
I loved Phantom Hourglass and even I'll tell you it shouldn't form your opinion on the whole franchise. I admit the central stealth dungeon sucks and that it's a lot easier than other Zelda games, but I still thought the control scheme was genius, and I'm glad it became the base for some other DS action adventure games like Ninja Gaiden Dragon Sword and that Dragon Ball game.

Actually, maybe people didn't like PH because it was sort of a "casual" Zelda game, and maybe I played it exactly the way it was intended to be played. It was during the era when the DS got big with casual gamers and people who didn't normally play games, and I played through almost the whole game while multitasking.

But yeah, try another one.

Honestly, I think Twilight Princess might be the best choice for giving a newcomer an idea of what just about all the other Zelda games are like. It's probably the most formulaic 3D Zelda game, filled with lots of content and some of the best dungeon design in the series. Zelda fans were just disappointed in it at the time because it wasn't that different from previous games -- it got criticized for giving fans exactly what they wanted.

I guess Link's Awakening and maybe the Oracle games are the best examples of 2D Zelda games you can play.
 

Algorum

Attempted to circumvent ban with an alt-account
Banned
Dec 23, 2018
580
Granted I haven't tried Ocarina of Time or BOTW.
Play BOTW with every intention to learn it's systems/gameplay and you might end up with one of the best video games of all time.

Give it a shot and if you liked it give wind waker and even twilight princess a chance as well.
 

thepenguin55

Member
Oct 28, 2017
11,815
Play BOTW. It shits on every previous 3D Zelda game.

Phantom Hourglass is a mess.

Yo! A person I can relate to. BOTW is the only 3D Zelda I've ever truly enjoyed. Holiday '87 my brother got a NES & Zelda for his bday and we loved it. I would go on to love Zelda 2, Link's Awakening and A Link to the Past. I was one of very few kids holiday '98 who came away from OOT disappointed. The feel and structure/pacing of 3D Zelda's prior to BOTW just don't click with me at all. Add in the increasing length of time spent in dungeons over each progressive game as another negative.

I've at least played all the 3D Zelda's to some extent with OOT and WW being the only two that I stuck out to the end. But yeah, in 2020 I'll recommend BOTW and any 2D Zelda that wasn't on the NES or DS (or CDi, lol) to anyone. Even with Zelda 1 & 2 I think the dungeons and temples in those games largely hold up but everything outside of that is a little rough by modern standards.
 

badboy78660

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,737
When speaking specifically of BotW, if there's one thing that gets hated on the most when it comes to that game's mechanics, it's the weapon durability system.
 

ibyea

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,164
Yeah, Phantom Hourglass is not a good starting point. That said, I expected to hate it based on what people were saying, but I ended up liking it. It's near the bottom of my Zelda list, but I enjoyed it.
 

BrickArts295

GOTY Tracking Thread Master
Member
Oct 26, 2017
13,768
For me I guess its that it becomes repetitive. I honestly think that's why I tend to leave them half way finished. Except for BOTW, I think the Switch hype and being in the conversation made me finish it.
 

Dever

Member
Dec 25, 2019
5,347
Skyward Sword is the best, so that one. Failing that, Majorca's Mask and Twilight Princess.
Skyward Sword being the best is a pretty niche opinion. There's some nice dungeons in that game but otherwise it's the worst Zelda I've played imo. (I've played Windwaker, Twilight princess and BotW)

OP I dunno, it seems a bit odd to judge this series based on a DS game. It's just a solid action-adventure series.
 

bye

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
8,424
Phoenix, AZ
LACK of puzzles and interesting story and good music and enemy variety and themed dungeons and rewarding exploration

*cough cough*
 
Last edited:

Le Dude

Member
May 16, 2018
4,709
USA
damn is it really? what 3 games should I try then?
A Link to the Last is the best 2D entry and outside of the graphics/audio doesn't feel particularly dated.

Breath of the Wild is its own thing. Still Zelda, but makes a bunch of changes and is one of the top of all time.

Ocarina of Time, Wind Waker, and Twilight Princess are all pretty similar in how they play. Ocarina of Time is the best, but also the most dated. Wind Waker VS Twilight Princess really depends on what you prefer.

Playing the first two there and one from the third group would provide a decent overview of the series.

Skyways Sword, Majora's Mask, and A Link Between Worlds are all amazing, but they are also more of unique, one off Zelda games.
 

MoogleWizard

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,692
Several things I imagine. People have short attention spans and Zelda wants you to pay attention and takes things slow. From forcing you to read instead of just listen to trapping you in rooms to solve a puzzle. It was always a super-well known franchise, but Zelda has never been a massive seller until BOTW. IMO this is because BOTW jumps on the open world bandwagon and does away with puzzles and forcing players to stop and think or read, and makes these parts fully optional.

Gamers today are used to being able to brute-force everything. Stuck on a boss in an RPG? Grind or buy new equipment. Not doing enough damage in a shooter? Buy a new weapon. Want better weapons/equipment/new lives etc.? Microtransactions or DLC. Stuck in a Souls game? Summon other players. In most games, there are ways to brute-force progress without having to engage with whatever mechanic or part of the game you're having trouble with. With Zelda before BOTW, this didn't work. Several posters in this thread mentioned that it's Zelda's obtuse puzzles that prevent them from playing Zelda. This isn't surprising because, unlike with most other games, you cannot find a way around solving these puzzles the way they are intended to be solved. You can't grind, summon a helper or buy stronger equipment to work your way around it. You either solve the puzzle or your progress halts. And in traditional Zelda games the dungeons were basically room after room, with puzzle after puzzle. It's a bit of shame that this deterred people from playing Zelda before because a few exceptions aside, Zelda puzzles are not obtuse but easy to solve if you just stop and take a proper look at what's on the screen.

BOTW does away with this. All puzzles are optional, the mere four dungeons are optional, there is very little mandatory NPC interaction (so no forcing you to read). And even the puzzles that are there (the shrines) are short and you only need to solve one or a handful to clear the shrine. This is a much faster process than in the earlier games, where you spent hours in each dungeon. The short nature of the shrines also prevents BOTW puzzles from getting as "obtuse" as in the older games because they can no longer span an entire dungeon.

Personally, I really miss proper dungeons and puzzles but BOTW's sales numbers indicate that sadly I'm part of a minority.
 

MrWindUpBird

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
3,686
Skyward Sword being the best is a pretty niche opinion. There's some nice dungeons in that game but otherwise it's the worst Zelda I've played imo. (I've played Windwaker, Twilight princess and BotW)

OP I dunno, it seems a bit odd to judge this series based on a DS game. It's just a solid action-adventure series.
Sure, but I don't think it being a niche opinion devalues said opinion. I believe it's the best Zelda game. Others believe it's Wind Walker, or Breath of the Wild. I like BotW, but I can't say it makes a good "first" pick to get into the series since it has so little in common with the 30 years of games before it.
 

callamp

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,481
Uninteresting characters and limited narrative kills it for me. Link is just a blank slate, completely full and uninteresting in every way.

It's hard to spend 30-40 hours with dull characters. Although I admit I had fun with Link's Awakening
 

Kickfister

Member
May 9, 2019
1,791
For the more prevalent Zelda formula (get item that lets you do dungeon that lets you get to next dungeon to get new item), I'd recommend Ocarina of Time or Wind Waker.

Ocarina of Time is timeless largely due to it's more generic themes (save the princess from the big bad by beating the generic element temples), but it has a mature, brooding atmosphere to it that no other zelda game has really captured imo. The dungeons are still some of my favorites in the series, and I love a good time skip mechanic. It's impossible to go wrong with it really, I don't think there are many people that would argue it's a bad game, just overhyped (which I'd disagree with personally).

Wind Waker is one of the more unique entries, and it's probably my second favorite Zelda game. Again, it follows that basic formula, but there's a greater emphasis on exploration. Sailing is done pretty well, dungeons are solid, and there are fun characters to meet. I do recommend playing the Wii U version if possible though, as it makes one of the more obnoxious parts of the game far more enjoyable.

If you don't like how limiting that formula is, play BOTW. It's a completely different game from the rest in the series. While I like that game a good bit for what it does well, it's deceptively shallow and contains the least interesting dungeons in the series (though it's filled to the brim with mini-dungeons, so to speak). I don't think they did a good job reinventing the dungeon loop aspect of the previous entries, but they knocked it out of the park with exploration. So if you really think the dungeon formula is what makes you dislike Phantom Hourglass and not just the quality of the dungeon formula in that game, then play BOTW.

That said, the only non-handheld Zelda entry I absolutely recommend against playing is Skyward Sword. At least I recommend against starting with it. It's not awful, but the game treats you like a 4 year old the entire time, and even if you set that aside, there's an awful lot of backtracking (not in a fun way). Also, I personally found the motion controls maddening.
 

Wariobenotware

Alt Account
Banned
Apr 2, 2020
1,869
Yo! A person I can relate to. BOTW is the only 3D Zelda I've ever truly enjoyed. Holiday '87 my brother got a NES & Zelda for his bday and we loved it. I would go on to love Zelda 2, Link's Awakening and A Link to the Past. I was one of very few kids holiday '98 who came away from OOT disappointed. The feel and structure/pacing of 3D Zelda's prior to BOTW just don't click with me at all. Add in the increasing length of time spent in dungeons over each progressive game as another negative.

I've at least played all the 3D Zelda's to some extent with OOT and WW being the only two that I stuck out to the end. But yeah, in 2020 I'll recommend BOTW and any 2D Zelda that wasn't on the NES or DS (or CDi, lol) to anyone. Even with Zelda 1 & 2 I think the dungeons and temples in those games largely hold up but everything outside of that is a little rough by modern standards.


I think the Original NES Zelda is still a fantastic game and i would play it over any 3D Zelda except BOTW. I'm also with you, OOT was a disappointment and i was sad that many future games were using that formula. This was just an issue with Eji Annouma taking charge of the series and i was not a fan of that at all.
 

Jackano

Member
Oct 27, 2017
577
- Playing Phantom Hourglass
- Not playing OoT and BOTW
As far as OP goes, you couldn't take it the wrong way more than that xD
It's like playing Federation Force and not Super Metroid and Metroid Prime. Or something like that. Idk.

To topic:
Starting with BOTW may be a curse. BOTW is the fresh air the franchise needed. Before that, Skyward Sword is already more than dated. The formula for 3D games started in 1998 and knew its best with Twilight Princess, but even that one was a bit aged (should have released in 2005 at max on Gamecube like originally planned).

The 3DS games are good, but the two remakes are 20+ old games to the core, and ALBW still is a 2D game in the same fashion. That's not for anyone in 2020 if you're acustomed to 3D action-adventure games.
Knowing that, BOTW all the way for giving it a new chance should be the general concensus.