What are your views on cultural or ethnic identity?

[Hattoto]

I think this is probably more relevant to people in countries mainly composed of diaspora populations (like the US or Canada). So I'm curious about others' thoughts about cultural (mainly ethnic) identities and the degree to which individuals give them significance.

I'm considered Asian American, and it's pretty interesting to see how people from similar backgrounds reckon their identities. What's also interesting is seeing the dynamics between people from an ethnic homeland and their diaspora. And that dynamic might be one source of an identity crisis which seems to be a common theme among Asian Americans who grew up in America (i.e, people questioning if they're American or Korean, etc).

But overall, I think there's a lot ambiguity in how we conceptualize cultural identities.
Adding to the confusion is how ethnic identities are also regarded as nationalities. Like people in Ireland might have a different interpretation of "Irishness" than that of an Irish American. I've a feeling that may be common across most diasporas. And it prompts me to ask the question "Who has the ultimate authority or say on who belongs to a culture or an ethnicity?" The homeland? A DNA site? Your grandparents?

Personally, I think it's an individual's prerogative to claim their heritage, no matter where they grew up. But for me, I also feel that ethnic identities themselves can be transient things subject to change and even interpretation, and too much fixation over them can be unhealthy at times. If someone were to ask me "what Asian are you?", I'd just say that's a meaningless question to me since I'm culturally removed from my immediate ancestors, and my ancestry is essentially a series of people who moved from one place to another, so ethnic identity isn't some absolute aspect for me.

 

[Deleted member 8752]

Personally, I think it's an individual's prerogative to claim their heritage, no matter where they grew up. But for me, I also feel that ethnic identities themselves can be transient things subject to change and even interpretation, and too much fixation over them can be unhealthy at times.

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Very well said. This resonates a lot with me.

 

[nsilvias]

It feels limiting. Like it encourages you to fit in a box rather than be yourself. I'm Mexican American and I feel like I'm sold an image of how I should be and because I don't follow along I feel like I'm not part of the club. It makes you feel like your acting like a guero (white person) and it's how many frame it but I'm not I'm just being me.

 

[HomokHarcos]

I guess my ancestors came from Europe, but I just view myself as a White North American. Admittedly it is much easier for a white person to avoid being considered foreign. For example Chinese Americans were not allowed citizenship at one point.

 

[KtotheRoc]

It's up to the individual to decide that for themselves.

 

[RichardHawk]

I'm Mexican American and extremely proud of my culture. I would go to Mexico every summer to be with my family so I really got to experience living there and I got to fully emerge in the country. I also grew up in Los Angeles which is a very Hispanic and generally Mexican city. Visiting my family as an adult I feel more and more comfortable being there and it's not outside of the realm of possibility that I might move down at some point. I'm very proud of being Mexican and disgusted that I'm American. It's been hard to deal with over the course of the last 4-5 years.

 

[HiLife]

The "real" vs "Americanized" minority is one of my biggest hang-ups with it. Been through it enough during my lifetime and yeah, it does mess with you and your identity growing up.

 

[Griselbrand]

I'm a first generation Mexican American.

I place a lot of importance in my cultural and ethnic identity.

I sympathize with people who feel pressure to act a certain way or like certain things, I've seen that within my own family. I myself have been in some spaces or hobbies that don't see a lot of representation of minorities, much less Latinos, and I try and bring this up where I can in my own way or encourage others to do the same. It's a small impact but something that I think is meaningful.

I don't think I've ever felt that tying a part of me to my culture has ever harmed me or held me back. There may be people who find it obnoxious but that's their problem, not mine.

EDIT: I should add that because I'm very vocal about my background I am sometimes put in a position where I have to explain or speak up about immigrant issues or cultural questions. It's not necessarily a bad thing and if I don't have an answer I will certainly say so. I don't mind if people ask for my perspective Mexican cooking or latino voters getting behind Trump, I take it as part of the responsibility of putting such an importance on my identity. I'm happy to share my thoughts on the matter even if on occasion it seems like people want to carch me off guard and get defensive.

 

[Desi]

It's easy for me. I'm African American while in the US. American whenever I am abroad. Don't really see myself similar to other black groups that are not African American other than the obvious skin similarities and views from the police. Sometimes being from Baltimore/DMV area I also do not bond with people from other majority-black cities that are not on our Northeast corridor.

I feel as if I am one of the newest races of people.

 

[Deleted member 16516]

I was born, bred and educated in the UK but I don't feel British or English, more European in that regard. Mostly, I feel a mix between my maternal Egyptian ancestry and paternal Indian (Punjab) ancestry.

I can pick and choose what aspects of those cultures I like, and disassociate myself from aspects I dislike such as, strong paternalism, caste systems, anti-LGBTQ+ views etc.

 

[regina's phalange]

Personally, I think it's an individual's prerogative to claim their heritage, no matter where they grew up. But for me, I also feel that ethnic identities themselves can be transient things subject to change and even interpretation, and too much fixation over them can be unhealthy at times. If someone were to ask me "what Asian are you?", I'd just say that's a meaningless question to me since I'm culturally removed from my immediate ancestors, and my ancestry is essentially a series of people who moved from one place to another, so ethnic identity isn't some absolute aspect for me.

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This speaks to me. I am first generation immigrant, the child of two refugees from Hungary. Hungary has a very unhealthy dose of nationalism - and quite rigid understanding of it's ethnic and cultural identity. White, Christian, the victims of historical injustice - there is more to the identity but these have risen to the top of the narrative. I find it difficult to see myself in it and feel like these are 'my people' - especially with the homophobic, islamaphobic, etc. beliefs that are somehow tied to the country's national identity...

Also I was raised culturally Hungarian within the household, I am more American...I think cultural identity is as important as we make it for ourselves; some nations have a strong sense of self they work hard to pass down to future generations. I've found myself relating to more to first generation immigrants (regardless of cultural and ethnic background) than one national identity; like you mentioned, the experience is unique in that feeling of "I don't fully belong there...and I don't fully belong here".

 

[J_ToSaveTheDay]

I'm biracial, white (unknown origin, but I'm American) and Korean to be specific.

It's not something I've completely reconciled in my adult life. As a kid, it was easy enough to just give in to a sense of colorblind-melting-pot narrative of identity that was fed to me by my parents and education, but that narrative hasn't really stuck since moving away from home and getting a lot of different perspectives I've acknowledged as far more valid and valuable. I feel constantly denied any true stake in a cultural or ethnic identity. I wish I had one. I try my best to see all of the ones I encounter as legitimate and celebratory, but have none that I feel any personal ownership of.

 

[cursed knowledge]

i'm a mixed race brazilian and it's weird to talk to the part of my family that lives in the US and hear that they feel awkward as fuck to be called "Latinx" by some white ppl or sum shit but they're starting to feel pushed to identify as that, even tho they really identify as afro-brazilians

the fact that US-based cultural identity that has developed and been talked about worldwide feels wrong to people from the "homelands" but also people who live in the US don't really have any options is weird

i don't know if i made myself clear but this can only fuck up someone's identity sense

 

[Desi]

i'm a mixed race brazilian and it's weird to talk to the part of my family that lives in the US and hear that they feel awkward as fuck to be called "Latinx" by some white ppl or sum shit but they're starting to feel pushed to identify as that, even tho they really identify as afro-brazilians

the fact that US-based cultural identity that has developed and been talked about worldwide feels wrong to people from the "homelands" but also people who live in the US don't really have any options is weird

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yeah, this is something that has been mentioned on this site quite a few times. The US soft power holds so much sway that it influences how people abroad have to identify themselves at times. Even at points changing the pronunciation in your own langauge.

Reminds me of the POC debate. Black people did not like being grouped in it so it evolved to BIPOC but that misses the point that a lot of black people don't want to be grouped in period.

 

[Fromskap]

Well, I'm not really a diaspora myself so I can't exactly relate to you, but I do think it is important to at least have considered your culture and cultural identity. I see culture as the sum of contributions of all people and manpower that have transferred and contributed to it, so the world would be lesser if any are forgotten. Therefore it is important to at least have tried to engage in your cultural identity. In this thinking, I am quite influenced by the current decline of my written language here in Norway as well as an earlier history of subjugation by Denmark.

On the other hand, culture can also contain mechanisms that are destructive, or that erases other cultures. So it is important to see it as a sort of sum where you do not preserve traditions that erase more from others than they contain. So one should look at traditions to remove what is unsavory, but also to preserve what is worthwhile. I think that's a good way to approach most in life.

 

[Deleted member 10629]

I'm Mexican but I don't care much about that. I don't feel like I identify strongly with it, and I wouldn't like to be from any other ethnic identity whatsoever.

 

[Nepenthe]

It's pretty much what you make of it, depending upon your individual experiences, and how those experiences compare with what a wider sociopolitical landscape at large communicates about any given identity ne?

I'm just black American. I have no knowledge of any specific ancestry from whatever country my ancestors were kidnapped from, and at this point feel like, even if I did, I still wouldn't feel any real strong national identity anyway. So all I really have in that regard is "blackness." There is an element of sadness to this, but lately I've embraced both the process of uncovering black American culture and accomplishments, and finding relation and kinships with other black diasporas stranded by the slave trade. I've been able to talk to black folks from Europe and South America and we find commonality in our experiences within seconds. "Do people do x, y, and z to you?" "Sure do." There is an element of universality to blackness that makes it feel like, in a way, you have a big-ass extended family. There is also an element of rebelliousness in being openly proud and happy to being black in a world that is still thoroughly anti-black, so I also find fun and fulfillment in that aspect as well.

 

[Finale Fireworker]

Adding to the confusion is how ethnic identities are also regarded as nationalities. Like people in Ireland might have a different interpretation of "Irishness" than that of an Irish American. I've a feeling that may be common across most diasporas.

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I clicked this thread with this in mind.

I am an American with predominantly Irish and Italian heritage, roughly equal in each part. My great grandmother was an Italian immigrant and her children were raised speaking Italian at home. But my mother was not taught Italian growing up and by the time I was born there was nothing ethnic about my upbringing. My great grandmother and grandmother were heavily accented and still abided by lots of customs that I was not raised to do. But I still spent a lot of time with them and I grew up in the Boston area which had lots of Italian (and Irish) heritage for me to relate to.

As I've grown up I've become more in touch with the Irish part of my background, especially because my SO is nearly 100% Irish in heritage. I have learned a lot about Irish history and politics and customs and folklore and feel more connected with my Irish heritage than my Italian one despite growing up more closely aligned with Italian family than Irish family. I think of us as an "Irish family" as far as heritage is concerned.

If I was talking to someone else from the United States, I would have no hesitation saying "I'm Irish." That's how white Americans like me refer to our ancestry. I'm Irish, I'm Italian, I'm Greek, etc. There's really no confusion over what that would mean because it's already understood that American is your nationality and Irish/Italian/etc refers to your heritage. I took this for granted for most of my life, but as I connected more and more with Europeans online I realized this wasn't going to fly in an international context.

As I made international friends and immersed myself in to Irish politics on social media, I realized that "being Irish" meant a lot more to them than I was used to. I had to contend with people telling me, bluntly, that I was not Irish and not to say I was. Some people were offended that an American like me would ever claim to "be Irish" and while I was upset by this I've come to understand it. Irish national identity is important due to the history of colonialism in the country. There is a strong structure of what is and who is Irish because of this. It's a force of preservation in the face of erosion. So when I say "I'm Irish" as an American, it comes across as really disrespectful. So I try not to talk like that anymore. I understand that I could never "go home" to Ireland because I am not from there. Someone else was generations ago and they're dead now.

I tend to find it depressing to think about. In my own country, my Irish heritage is a point of pride. In Boston it feels like "my people" and "my city" and I feel very connected with that part of myself. And when I tell other Italians in America that I'm Italian too, I'm instantly one of the family. They introduce me to everyone, fix my car for free, bring me food at work, tell stories about me at Easter, etc. But online with my international friends and on European social media I only feel one thing and that's "American." And I don't know what being American means.

I have an additional wrinkle with my identity is that I grew up with Jewish family and observed Jewish holidays with them. We were a Judeo-Christian family so I feel very close to Jewishness and Jewish customs and history. It's sort of a running joke in between Italians and Jews that they're basically the same and this was something that really bound our family. But I am not actually Jewish and have no Jewish blood. So this feels like another big part of my "heritage" that isn't actually mine.

So I have these multiple tracks of ancestry and tradition I feel connected to but feel like I don't really have any right to claim as my own. A lot of the time I just feel like I'm a white American and that's it. As much as I want to embrace all these parts of my familial history and upbringing, it makes me feel like a fraud.

 

[ChippyTurtle]

I agree with your take, it's up to the individual and their personal prerogative to decide their identity.

Personally I drank the melting pot koolaid but frankly there's a lot to detest in the way my parents represent their heritage so I'm comfortable siding with the American part vs Chinese overall (I suppose I'm engaging partly in a childish rebellion), and I luckily decided really early in my life what I wanted as my identity.

It was reading books Asian Americans wrote on their own experiences, how ultimately the act of emigration casted them out of their original group and created their own niche in America informed my own opinions on the matter.

At the end of the day, the act of emigration broke the cultural and ethnic connection. For me reading those books, hearing their own experiences, recognizing partly my own coming conflicts being nearly the same as theirs, how it didn't matter their external and internal battles would ever reconnect them fully into either identity, American or Chinese, so I made my choice without much anguish.

 

[riverfr0zen]

I was born in Malaysia to Indian immigrant parents. Because in Malaysia they don't do citizenship by birth, I am a citizen of a country I've never lived in. When I was 12 our family moved to England. I did grammar school there till college age, which is when I came to the US, where I have been living ever since (I'm 43).



The fact of having to deal with multiple cultural "identities" or influences that changed as I grew up (Malaysian birth identity, parents' Indian identity, later a British immigrant identity, and later still an American immigrant identity) meant that I necessarily ended up situated much further away from what some may consider my "main" identity, i.e. the Indian identity inherited from my parents). I don't even think of it as my main identity -- in fact, I'm not sure I consider any of the "locations" as my current "main" identity, since I have spent a good amount of time in all of them. I think I identify myself more as a sort of "world citizen" type.

I do think that the question of distance from original identity is a personal journey and different for everyone. For example, my brother and sister have similar profiles, but they are much more aware/involved with our parents' ethnic identity. I'm more outgoing than them, and whenever we moved to new parts of the world, I made more of an effort to integrate with locals, I think. I've also always had a facility with adopting accents. I speak in different English accents -- Malay, Indian, English, American -- depending on who I'm talking to, and even within each of those categories there are dialects and specializations. I think this facility has allowed me to assimilate more effectively whenever we have had to travel.

It's not all roses, of course, growing up all over the place like that. There's a lot of push and pull between the "family-friends-external society" dimensions. A lot of battles with parents (unless you're a total tool like my siblings ;). But also sometimes going too far because you want to be more like all your friends, but know in reality you never really are.

Still, wouldn't have it any other way. And, wow that was a ramble :)

 

[Naijaboy]

EDIT

 

[C J P]

I'm mixed Maori/caucasian (but passing) and originally from New Zealand but have spent most of my life in the UK. I don't feel any great affinity for the Brits and British culture, though I know both very well, but since my childhood I've spent most of my life far removed from my Maori family.

So I don't really feel like I'm part of anything, unfortunately, and I don't know that I have the right to claim that heritage. I have a great reverence for Maori culture and I feel offended when it is misused or appropriated (Mike Tyson can go fuck himself) but I feel permanently outside it, which is psychologically difficult but not the worst thing in the world I suppose. When it comes to my cultural/ethnic identity my main feelings are a sense of overwhelming fraudulence when I tell people I'm part-Maori, because I simply haven't experienced a lot of the bullshit a non-passing person would experience, and an overwhelming discomfort with how white people talk when they think they're only in the company of other white people.

 

[Mabase]

Your ethnic identity and how strongly you choose to embrace or ignore it, is only one of the many parts that constitute you - but it is a part of you after all, I'd say. As long as you don't let it be the only thing to define you, it can be such a beautiful thing.

 

[Pet]

Diaspora East Asian American. Born and raised in the US, luckily in a community that's largely similar diaspora. Parents immigrated from Taiwan in their mid 20s.

I have no issues with my identity in terms of my ethnicity, and even growing up I never did.

I'm not Taiwanese/Chinese the way someone in Taiwan would consider themselves to be. I am Taiwanese/Chinese, though.

I am not an American the way someone in America who is white, black, native, Hispanic would consider themselves to be. I am American, though.

However, due to being second generation AND growing up in my environment, I'm very much Asian/Taiwanese American. I have cousins who grew up in predominantly white areas with the same starting point as me, but they are way less attuned to any Asian American subculture than I. That doesn't make them less of an Asian American, though. That's a distinction that many people, even minority Asians, don't quite get. It's not an insult or compliment to be more or less <ethnic> American, but many feel that way personally.

Me? I'm proud AF to be Asian. I have a distinct subculture that is separate from white, black, native, etc Americans. That's not an insult in any way, it is just a difference.

Many diaspora Asian Americans will want to tell me that's not true. I hear it from all sides. Some Asian Americans tell me that because I support causes like BLM, gender equality, LGBTQ+ rights, I am just like a "white liberal." Some Asian Americans tell me that because I grew up in America, there is nothing Asian about me and that "liking Asian food doesn't make you Asian since you have no actual connection to Taiwan." Some Asian Americans think I am "too" Asian and need to assimilate "better" and not be "so Asian" (I guess, not live in my ethnic bubble).

I can't claim to be Taiwanese/Chinese in the same way someone who actually was born and raised there would be. I have no issues calling myself American due to being born and raised here. However, like I said above, I'm Asian American, and I have a very different and specific American life that many other Americans can never truly understand or be a part of.

 

[Hattoto]

Very well said. This resonates a lot with me.

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I'm not a big fan of seeing cultures or identities as discrete or absolute things. From what we know about anthropology, histories of human migrations, linguistics, and general history, I think we can safely say that people, culture, and identities do change.

It feels limiting. Like it encourages you to fit in a box rather than be yourself. I'm Mexican American and I feel like I'm sold an image of how I should be and because I don't follow along I feel like I'm not part of the club. It makes you feel like your acting like a guero (white person) and it's how many frame it but I'm not I'm just being me.

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I can relate. I think among people of Asian descent too, "being Asian" can feel like an implication that you have to live up to certain preconceived notions or expectations. Identities can be a source of comfort and strength, but there are arbitrary aspects of identities that I'm not a fan of.

I guess my ancestors came from Europe, but I just view myself as a White North American. Admittedly it is much easier for a white person to avoid being considered foreign. For example Chinese Americans were not allowed citizenship at one point.

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I know that a "White identity" in America can approach taboo territory, but I'm interested in how European diaspora view themselves. Among the Anglophone countries, it seems like those of English ancestry historically had more leeway compared to those of other European heritages in assuming new national identities like American, Australian, etc.

I'm Mexican American and extremely proud of my culture. I would go to Mexico every summer to be with my family so I really got to experience living there and I got to fully emerge in the country. I also grew up in Los Angeles which is a very Hispanic and generally Mexican city. Visiting my family as an adult I feel more and more comfortable being there and it's not outside of the realm of possibility that I might move down at some point. I'm very proud of being Mexican and disgusted that I'm American. It's been hard to deal with over the course of the last 4-5 years.

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Do people in Mexico consider Mexican Americans to be Mexican?

The "real" vs "Americanized" minority is one of my biggest hang-ups with it. Been through it enough during my lifetime and yeah, it does mess with you and your identity growing up.

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I think I know what you mean. Specifically, I hate how people from Asian countries sometimes see Asian Americans as not "real Asians". Geographically-speaking, they're correct, but since we use "Asian" as both a racial/ethnic descriptor, it feels very dismissive of lived experiences of those of Asian descent outside Asia. It also ignores a fundamental aspect of culture: that it can branch off and those branches can have a new life of their own.

I'm a first generation Mexican American.

I place a lot of importance in my cultural and ethnic identity.

I sympathize with people who feel pressure to act a certain way or like certain things, I've seen that within my own family. I myself have been in some spaces or hobbies that don't see a lot of representation of minorities, much less Latinos, and I try and bring this up where I can in my own way or encourage others to do the same. It's a small impact but something that I think is meaningful.

I don't think I've ever felt that tying a part of me to my culture has ever harmed me or held me back. There may be people who find it obnoxious but that's their problem, not mine.

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Preach! I'm wondering if people from Latin American countries are more open to their diasporas. Then again I'm not too familiar with how people from Mexico, Argentina, or Bolivia reckon identity if it's along national lines, cultural lines, or even ethnic lines since Latin America seems to be a mixture of various diasporas along with Indigenous cultures.

It's easy for me. I'm African American while in the US. American whenever I am abroad. Don't really see myself similar to other black groups that are not African American other than the obvious skin similarities and views from the police. Sometimes being from Baltimore/DMV area I also do not bond with people from other majority-black cities that are not on our Northeast corridor.

I feel as if I am one of the newest races of people.

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I feel like this continent is a place where people can make a new people for themselves.
I learned early on that just because I look like a certain group of people, doesn't mean we have a lot in common. But I think that's one beautiful aspect of being American: that you can freely define yourself.

 

[The Albatross]

I think it can be an important part of your own identity. I don't strongly associated with my Irish & Polish heritage to any strong degree, but growing up I had relatives who were immigrants from Ireland and Poland, and so their stories stuck with me. I'm not religious anymore, but I also have an affinity towards the cultural traditional of Catholicism in Ireland and Poland, not so much y'know the homophobic traditionalism, but that both were counter-cultural religions... that association with Catholicism in both countries was done in the face of the foreign authoritarian government that ruled the countries. I also strongly support immigrant groups who seek refuge in the United States today because that was my family ~120 years ago, religiously persecuted, poor, desperate, and looking to create the sort of lives for their great grand children that I'm lucky enough to enjoy today, so I believe in advocating for families like mine.

I don't really strongly associated with my familial origin otherwise, other than light holidays and traditions... St. Patrick's Day, Borscht on easter, lamb butter, food recipes like pierogies, gwumpkies (I know..., but I can't spell it), etc. If someone from the US asked me "what are you" I'd say Irish and Polish. If I was travelling abroad, I'd say American. I used to know light Polish as a kid because my grandmother and her cousins spoke it occassionally, but I forgot it all. When my great grandfather immigrated to the US, they lived in Franklin New Hampshire, a small town north of the capital, Concord, and he insisted on Americanizing his kids, he didn't allow them to speak Polish, they had to do everything in English. My grandmother was born in the US, her sisters were born in Poland, so she always knew English, but learned some conversational Polish growing up.

 

[Oneiros]

I've lived my whole life in the US and you would have to go back a ways to find a relative of mine who hasn't done the same. So I don't have a very strong connection to the culture of my pre-American ancestors and trying to do so would feel fake to me.

 

[Sordid Plebeian]

do what you find fulfilling to you but don't force it upon others

 

[FeliciaFelix]

Puerto Rican. Never cared while living in PR, rather annoyed at being shoved into it in the mainland.

But I'll say that even in PR, some Puerto Ricans treat Puerto Ricanness like a costume.

 

[Aaronrules380]

I mean personally despite the fact that I now consider myself an atheist growing up in a Jewish household I definitely still see myself as a Jew and consider it an important part of my identity.

 

[John Caboose]

Now and again there's news segments here in Sweden about people in the US trying to observe Swedish traditions and stuff because of their ancestors being from here. It is kind of laughable how bad and warped most of it is.

 

[Jag]

Culturally, but not religiously Jewish. Knowing our history and how many suffered from the present and going back thousands of years, just so that we could live absolutely has an effect on our worldview. It's why I didn't change my obviously Jewish last name even knowing that it would subject myself and my kids to abuse (it has). I could have easily gone from "Jew" to "generic white" by hacking off 5 letters. There are also shared experiences that bind us culturally. Some bound in religious customs, in foods and entertainment.

 

[Hattoto]

Well, I'm not really a diaspora myself so I can't exactly relate to you, but I do think it is important to at least have considered your culture and cultural identity. I see culture as the sum of contributions of all people and manpower that have transferred and contributed to it, so the world would be lesser if any are forgotten. Therefore it is important to at least have tried to engage in your cultural identity. In this thinking, I am quite influenced by the current decline of my written language here in Norway as well as an earlier history of subjugation by Denmark.

On the other hand, culture can also contain mechanisms that are destructive, or that erases other cultures. So it is important to see it as a sort of sum where you do not preserve traditions that erase more from others than they contain. So one should look at traditions to remove what is unsavory, but also to preserve what is worthwhile. I think that's a good way to approach most in life.

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I won't deny that there's meaning in understanding one's background. And for some people, finding and having a sense of belonging to a larger group or something in the past can feel cathartic. Personally I love seeing how things are connected. Just like how many languages are connected within a larger language family, the same can be said of cultures I believe. That's why I feel that cultural identity is something dynamic and fluid rather than something concrete and stiff. One's heritage is not just locked in the past, it keeps going forward and you can take it with you if you want. But that's my American perspective likely talking.

It's pretty much what you make of it, depending upon your individual experiences, and how those experiences compare with what a wider sociopolitical landscape at large communicates about any given identity ne?

I'm just black American. I have no knowledge of any specific ancestry from whatever country my ancestors were kidnapped from, and at this point feel like, even if I did, I still wouldn't feel any real strong national identity anyway. So all I really have in that regard is "blackness." There is an element of sadness to this, but lately I've embraced both the process of uncovering black American culture and accomplishments, and finding relation and kinships with other black diasporas stranded by the slave trade. I've been able to talk to black folks from Europe and South America and we find commonality in our experiences within seconds. "Do people do x, y, and z to you?" "Sure do." There is an element of universality to blackness that makes it feel like, in a way, you have a big-ass extended family. There is also an element of rebelliousness in being openly proud and happy to being black in a world that is still thoroughly anti-black, so I also find fun and fulfillment in that aspect as well.

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It's interesting how at different ends of a spectrum a racial identity is conceptualized when comparing the experiences of the African diaspora and the Asian diaspora in America. I've a feeling that there might be an inverse relationship between racial and ethnic identity. That is, the more strongly a person identifies with a specific ethnicity, it's less likely that person identifies with a race. And vice versa.

From an Asian American perspective, Black Americans seem more united and have more solidarity in some ways compared to Asian Americans (I think many Asians would agree that there is no solidarity among Asians). I think that's because the different Asian identities have something akin to nationalism among them which prevents a sense of racial solidarity. But the African diaspora who were descended from those brought by the slave trade were essentially stripped of their specific ethnic backgrounds which resulted in more shared racialized experiences across those of different heritages.

I clicked this thread with this in mind.

I am an American with predominantly Irish and Italian heritage, roughly equal in each part. My great grandmother was an Italian immigrant and her children were raised speaking Italian at home. But my mother was not taught Italian growing up and by the time I was born there was nothing ethnic about my upbringing. My great grandmother and grandmother were heavily accented and still abided by lots of customs that I was not raised to do. But I still spent a lot of time with them and I grew up in the Boston area which had lots of Italian (and Irish) heritage for me to relate to.

...

So I have these multiple tracks of ancestry and tradition I feel connected to but feel like I don't really have any right to claim as my own. A lot of the time I just feel like I'm a white American and that's it. As much as I want to embrace all these parts of my familial history and upbringing, it makes me feel like a fraud.

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Thank you for sharing your perspective.
I know that things do get confusing when discussing heritage or identity with people outside America, especially in the "Old Country". In communicating in another language, I have to be careful how certain words convey nuance or meaning. Like in Japanese, if someone were to ask what I am, I'd probably say "~系アメリカ人" which implies that I'm an American citizen of specific ancestry, rather than using [country of ancestry]+人 which would imply I'm a citizen of that ancestral country.

If you ask me, I don't think you should feel like a fraud in embracing what you feel connected to. Your heritage is your heritage; that's your right and no one can deny you that. Like I said to a previous post, heritage isn't something outside of you, it's what contributed to you and also what you take with you. That's why I feel cultural identities are transient and always in flux because they do change and we can facilitate the evolution of our heritage if we choose to do so. I hate seeing cultural identities like exclusive clubs. In one era, a group of people are wanderers speaking a dialect of the Proto-Indo-European language, in another era some of that group's descendants are Angles and Saxons living around modern Denmark, centuries later those Angles' and Saxons' children call themselves English and likely incorporated elements of Celtic and French culture into them, centuries later some of those descendants of those English folks call themselves American. What comes next is up to this generation.

I agree with your take, it's up to the individual and their personal prerogative to decide their identity.

Personally I drank the melting pot koolaid but frankly there's a lot to detest in the way my parents represent their heritage so I'm comfortable siding with the American part vs Chinese overall (I suppose I'm engaging partly in a childish rebellion), and I luckily decided really early in my life what I wanted as my identity.

It was reading books Asian Americans wrote on their own experiences, how ultimately the act of emigration casted them out of their original group and created their own niche in America informed my own opinions on the matter.

At the end of the day, the act of emigration broke the cultural and ethnic connection. For me reading those books, hearing their own experiences, recognizing partly my own coming conflicts being nearly the same as theirs, how it didn't matter their external and internal battles would ever reconnect them fully into either identity, American or Chinese, so I made my choice without much anguish.

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I think as Asian Americans (particularly among 2nd-generation), we likely have strong conceptions of what our specific heritage is and feel like there's no room to change the definition or the nature of that heritage. At the same time, I don't think we really focus enough on how we're like new branches with their own stories, which makes me wonder if that's why there's not really a strong "Asian American culture" here. Usually when people think of Asian America, it's just Asian culture transplanted in America, but there's a lot of room to show how Asian American culture can evolve in this country.

 

[Hattoto]

Now and again there's news segments here in Sweden about people in the US trying to observe Swedish traditions and stuff because of their ancestors being from here. It is kind of laughable how bad and warped most of it is.

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Do you think it's good to describe how people trying to claim or celebrate their heritage as "bad or warped"?

I'm reminded of how a person from France thought similar of the Cajun culture and the version of French spoken in Louisiana. For those Cajuns, I assume their Francophone heritage is very meaningful to them because on separate occasions they were treated like trash by English speakers. Their version of French culture likely deviated in some parts from the homeland, but that doesn't make their language nor their attempts at claiming or clinging to aspects of their ancestral culture any less valid.

 

[Enkidu]

Now and again there's news segments here in Sweden about people in the US trying to observe Swedish traditions and stuff because of their ancestors being from here. It is kind of laughable how bad and warped most of it is.

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I actually met an American here in Sweden once who very strongly identified as Swedish-American due to his heritage. He was clearly very proud of it (which was also why he was in Sweden at the time), however aside from knowing a bit about the history and customs of the country, and knowing a few Swedish words, the guy was as generically American as I could imagine. It was actually kind of interesting how he so strongly identified with being Swedish, yet I could barely find anything in common with him at all. Part of me did feel just a little bit insulted at how he had seemingly reduced my whole culture and nationality into just a few cultural quirks though.

 

[Deleted member 22630]

Being Mexican-American is something very important to me in that I love my culture and something I take pride in but nothing toxic, fuck that shit!

 

[John Caboose]

Do you think it's good to describe how people trying to claim or celebrate their heritage as "bad or warped"?

I'm reminded of how a person from France thought similar of the Cajun culture and the version of French spoken in Louisiana. For those Cajuns, I assume their Francophone heritage is very meaningful to them because on separate occasions they were treated like trash by English speakers. Their version of French culture likely deviated in some parts from the homeland, but that doesn't make their language nor their attempts at claiming or clinging to aspects of their ancestral culture any less valid.

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You're obviously interpreting my post way harder than intended. Bad and warped as in "I don't understand a single word they're saying even though its supposed to be Swedish" and "a complete lack of understanding of what they're attempting to recreate".

 

[Deleted member 23212]

For me, it's generally what I have citizenship for. I have American and Canadian citizenship, and thus I tend to associate as being American and Canadian. While I tend to be anti-nationalist and oppose the idea of countries in general, it's undeniable that I'm affected by my time spent in the US and Canada and that's how others view me. I don't associate with my European origins because I don't know any of of them, and it goes back quite a few generations before we even get to those who immigrated here. I also have some native American ancestry but I'd never consider myself native American because nobody views me that way and I never have any contact with that part of the family.

 

[Fulminator]

it's not something important at all to me. I am from a Jewish family but it's not something I regard as important in my life nor do I really care to tbh.

It's up to the individual though and I would never disparage anyone for valuing their cultural background.

 

[balohna]

My cultural background is probably mostly "white Canadian", but there isn't much to mine there other than colonialism and a bunch of cultural touchstones from the other end of the country that don't really relate to me. I have German and Austrian ancestry on my mom's side and both her parents are immigrants, but as far as I can tell they tried to raise their kids as Canadian as possible (no speaking German at home, mostly just being good church going suburban white people). My dad's side has been in Canada for multiple generations, but my grandparents definitely embraced their Scottish roots to some extent. I went to a few highland games things and stuff like that as a kid. But nobody in my family that I've met is actually from Scotland, and I've never been there.

It's weird, I guess when it's easy to assimilate a lot of people just do it.

 

[Kurtikeya]

On a social level, it can be very powerful. For better, but also unfortunately, for worse. Still, when you're able to associate a value or idea with a culture, such as the Japanese mono no aware, the Latin American magic realism, or the Filipino kilig, and when you're able to tangibly experience it for yourself as someone's who part of that culture (be it through social events or just through the air of a place), it can be very beautiful.

I say this about religion, but I also say it about cultural identity. It's not a primal essence or any one particular thing. It's a relationship. It takes work and it takes compromises. It can hurt. However, it can also be empowering and affirming.

 

[Deleted member 14518]

I clicked this thread with this in mind.

I am an American with predominantly Irish and Italian heritage, roughly equal in each part. My great grandmother was an Italian immigrant and her children were raised speaking Italian at home. But my mother was not taught Italian growing up and by the time I was born there was nothing ethnic about my upbringing. My great grandmother and grandmother were heavily accented and still abided by lots of customs that I was not raised to do. But I still spent a lot of time with them and I grew up in the Boston area which had lots of Italian (and Irish) heritage for me to relate to.

As I've grown up I've become more in touch with the Irish part of my background, especially because my SO is nearly 100% Irish in heritage. I have learned a lot about Irish history and politics and customs and folklore and feel more connected with my Irish heritage than my Italian one despite growing up more closely aligned with Italian family than Irish family. I think of us as an "Irish family" as far as heritage is concerned.

If I was talking to someone else from the United States, I would have no hesitation saying "I'm Irish." That's how white Americans like me refer to our ancestry. I'm Irish, I'm Italian, I'm Greek, etc. There's really no confusion over what that would mean because it's already understood that American is your nationality and Irish/Italian/etc refers to your heritage. I took this for granted for most of my life, but as I connected more and more with Europeans online I realized this wasn't going to fly in an international context.

As I made international friends and immersed myself in to Irish politics on social media, I realized that "being Irish" meant a lot more to them than I was used to. I had to contend with people telling me, bluntly, that I was not Irish and not to say I was. Some people were offended that an American like me would ever claim to "be Irish" and while I was upset by this I've come to understand it. Irish national identity is important due to the history of colonialism in the country. There is a strong structure of what is and who is Irish because of this. It's a force of preservation in the face of erosion. So when I say "I'm Irish" as an American, it comes across as really disrespectful. So I try not to talk like that anymore. I understand that I could never "go home" to Ireland because I am not from there. Someone else was generations ago and they're dead now.

I tend to find it depressing to think about. In my own country, my Irish heritage is a point of pride. In Boston it feels like "my people" and "my city" and I feel very connected with that part of myself. And when I tell other Italians in America that I'm Italian too, I'm instantly one of the family. They introduce me to everyone, fix my car for free, bring me food at work, tell stories about me at Easter, etc. But online with my international friends and on European social media I only feel one thing and that's "American." And I don't know what being American means.

I have an additional wrinkle with my identity is that I grew up with Jewish family and observed Jewish holidays with them. We were a Judeo-Christian family so I feel very close to Jewishness and Jewish customs and history. It's sort of a running joke in between Italians and Jews that they're basically the same and this was something that really bound our family. But I am not actually Jewish and have no Jewish blood. So this feels like another big part of my "heritage" that isn't actually mine.

So I have these multiple tracks of ancestry and tradition I feel connected to but feel like I don't really have any right to claim as my own. A lot of the time I just feel like I'm a white American and that's it. As much as I want to embrace all these parts of my familial history and upbringing, it makes me feel like a fraud.

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Fuck that. I'm Irish, born in Dublin, and there is a certain amount of begrudery and colonial hangover about the place. But I've never signed up to the "plastic paddies" bull. But there's a huge amount of the country that are proud to have connections with Americans and other places around the world. As with most things don't take social media as the way it is.

There is a bit of eye rolling with people who drop they are Irish and know nothing about the place, but people with heritage, who have a genuine interest are more than welcome to call themselves Irish.

 

[Hypron]

I do feel that cultural identity is not an intrinsic or fixed thing. It can change over time.

I was born in France and came to New Zealand as a teen. At first, I completely identified as being French, was in touch and up to date to the culture.
Over a decade later, I will have soon spent half of my life in NZ. I now consider myself both French and Kiwi (and have dual citizenship), although I do feel like there is something 'missing' in both cases.

I did not spend my formative years in NZ, and while I'm getting along great with both native-born Kiwis and other immigrants, for some specific things I feel like this lack of shared experience gets a little bit in the way. Sometimes I just don't know cultural references or slang from before I got here, sometimes our values (which can be traced down to our upbringings) do not exactly align.

On the other hand, I have been progressively losing touch with my heritage, I have not kept up to date with current French culture over the last decade and a half. It's almost as if I took with me a snapshot of French culture in the mid-aughts and have been stuck in that time period ever since. I already felt like a foreigner when I visited France in the early 2010s, and I am a bit afraid of how out-of-touch I would be, were I to go back there now. That is without even taking into account the fact I have lost almost all my regional heritage, down to my native accent.

It does feel odd knowing my cultural identity will always be split this way.

 

[Hattoto]

You're obviously interpreting my post way harder than intended. Bad and warped as in "I don't understand a single word they're saying even though its supposed to be Swedish" and "a complete lack of understanding of what they're attempting to recreate".

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Sorry for misinterpreting. It kinda came off to me as snobbish or elitist. That's a thing that I wanted to get insight on: the dynamics between a homeland and their diaspora. It feels like in a lot of cases, the people from the homeland would have an elitist attitude towards their diaspora which includes looking down on how they use their ancestral language and other mannerisms. I guess that's also obvious in some cases between British and Americans.

 

[ScoobsJoestar]

I'm Brazilian Canadian. I know that here in Canada I'm Brazilian and in Brazil I'm the gringo. It is what it is.

 

[Advance.Wars.Sgt.]

I view myself as black American first, and then just black in a general sense when talking on a global sense. I don't feel any sort of affinity towards any African or non-American derivatives of African culture as that is not what I grew up with. Despite this, the intricacies of how different subgroups among the black diaspora navigated their oppression within their countries I very much relate with, as we are all victims of the same anti-black global hegemony and thus have a commonality there.

 

[Hattoto]

I can't claim to be Taiwanese/Chinese in the same way someone who actually was born and raised there would be. I have no issues calling myself American due to being born and raised here. However, like I said above, I'm Asian American, and I have a very different and specific American life that many other Americans can never truly understand or be a part of.

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Yeah, it can get pretty difficult describing the nuances of Asian American identity to other people. Hell, it seems like there's no consensus over what an "Asian American" identity is.
I got angry when someone from China told me there were no such things as "Asian Americans", that we're just American (which felt really dismissive of Asian experiences here). Likewise it's also annoying when people from Asia say Asian Americans aren't "real Americans".

With the divergent views on identity between Asian Americans who grew up here, and people from Asia whose immigration into here constantly fuels the Asian American demographic, I highly doubt that a cohesive and comprehensible Asian American identity would ever be defined.

 

[John Caboose]

Sorry for misinterpreting. It kinda came off to me as snobbish or elitist. That's a thing that I wanted to get insight on: the dynamics between a homeland and their diaspora. It feels like in a lot of cases, the people from the homeland would have an elitist attitude towards their diaspora which includes looking down on how they use their ancestral language and other mannerisms. I guess that's also obvious in some cases between British and Americans.

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No problem. Hopefully you have gained some insight from some of the posts in this thread. The most common dynamic these days between Swedes and Americans with Swedish ancestors several generations back is best exemplarized by the other poster who quoted me. I wouldn't want to speak for how it is with regards to other cultures or countries though, especially those with wildly different circumstances.

I actually met an American here in Sweden once who very strongly identified as Swedish-American due to his heritage. He was clearly very proud of it (which was also why he was in Sweden at the time), however aside from knowing a bit about the history and customs of the country, and knowing a few Swedish words, the guy was as generically American as I could imagine. It was actually kind of interesting how he so strongly identified with being Swedish, yet I could barely find anything in common with him at all. Part of me did feel just a little bit insulted at how he had seemingly reduced my whole culture and nationality into just a few cultural quirks though.

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[MrT-Tar]

I'm mixed - Gujarati on my mother's side and White British on my father's side. I'm understand that my maternal Grandmother's family lived in Burma pre-1942, but I don't think I have any Burmese ancestry.

For UK statistical purposes I'm "Mixed - White and Asian". However, I consider myself primarily British - or more precisely English. The fact that I happen to be 50% Gujarati almost seems like a non-sequitur and has virtually no impact on my day to day life. In fact, I never really questioned or examined my ethnic/cultural identity until I met my wife. She's from South Korea and having been raised in a very homogenous society, is often intrigued by the notion of having mixed heritage and cultural influences.