That would take so much dedication. He had to regroup and double back so many times. Most people would give up.
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What are your thoughts on Spirit Ashes in Elden Ring?
- Thread starter CharlesAznable
- Start date
That would take so much dedication. He had to regroup and double back so many times. Most people would give up.
For me they trivialize the boss fights and the challenge is a big reason why I play these games. I personally don't use them for this reason but I'm glad they are in the game for people who found the previous games too difficult and making the game more approachable to new comers to the series.
Bullying Malenia with 3 Elden Beast BOSS Spirit Summons (30 seconds kill)
She deserves that lol► Discord Server Link: https://discord.gg/YADRJqqMrA► Support this channel on Patreon, and get access to many benefits!https://www.patre...
www.youtube.com
lol
Good. Gooooood.Bullying Malenia with 3 Elden Beast BOSS Spirit Summons (30 seconds kill)
She deserves that lol► Discord Server Link: https://discord.gg/YADRJqqMrA► Support this channel on Patreon, and get access to many benefits!https://www.patre...
lol
Bullying Malenia with 3 Elden Beast BOSS Spirit Summons (30 seconds kill)
She deserves that lol► Discord Server Link: https://discord.gg/YADRJqqMrA► Support this channel on Patreon, and get access to many benefits!https://www.patre...
lol
Pretty much exactly my thoughts. More people get to enjoy the game so why not, I'm personally not a fan though
Bullying Malenia with 3 Elden Beast BOSS Spirit Summons (30 seconds kill)
She deserves that lol► Discord Server Link: https://discord.gg/YADRJqqMrA► Support this channel on Patreon, and get access to many benefits!https://www.patre...
lol
Deserved. She wants to cheat, we cheat back.
I really enjoyed using them and experimenting to see which ones I liked the best. Also nice to "even out" some boss battles where it would have been a 2/3 v1 situation.
Wolves were great at the start, then the ancestral follower, then I moved on to Tiche and mimic.
Wolves were great at the start, then the ancestral follower, then I moved on to Tiche and mimic.
I think they're cool, and clearly the bosses are balanced towards them.
Personally I don't summon them until I've tried a few rounds at the boss by myself, and summon them if I start to have some trouble.
Personally I don't summon them until I've tried a few rounds at the boss by myself, and summon them if I start to have some trouble.
Yeah, no reason not to use them. There are so many ways to turn the game's balance into mashed potatoes without even trying that treating Spirit summons as some red line would be weird. A lot of the bosses are just annoying, too - having an extra body there helps get it over with faster.
I recall seeing an interview with Miyazaki where he said he wanted to focus on larger battles. co-op and more options for people to play with in Elden Ring. Well, if that's what he wanted to do, then he achieved it.
Also should the servers go down completely in the future and you can't co-op/MP any more, at least there is an offline help option for those who missed out.
Also should the servers go down completely in the future and you can't co-op/MP any more, at least there is an offline help option for those who missed out.
So i just unlocked the ability to upgrade the ashes, is there any consensus on wich ones are worth upgrading early on, also since i have a strength/dex build i am a bit limited to the ones that cost a bit less fp.
I was one of those people who bragged about completing my first playthrough of the Souls games without summoning.
I love the spirit ashes. I love them a lot. They designed so much of the game around them; even multiple side-quests require that you use them to access certain areas. There's an entire class of items whose only purpose is to upgrade them, and a main NPC dedicated solely to upgrading them. They are meant to be used, and anyone who tries to argue that they aren't needs to get a grip.
I love the spirit ashes. I love them a lot. They designed so much of the game around them; even multiple side-quests require that you use them to access certain areas. There's an entire class of items whose only purpose is to upgrade them, and a main NPC dedicated solely to upgrading them. They are meant to be used, and anyone who tries to argue that they aren't needs to get a grip.
The way the prerelease previews hyped them up, I was hoping they would be something much more than just a summonable damage sponge..
if you looked a few posts down, I clearly stated I'm fine with people making the game difficult for themselves as it's their choice and that my issue is with people who call-out using Spirit Ashes as something that goes against the essence of the game and that they are the ones being toxic so stop putting that label on me.
I think that was just him accidentally revealing his Dark Souls Battle Royale. 100 loin-cloth clad hollows, getting dropped into some weird Bosch hellscape by that big crow from Firelink shrine.
Actually that sounds kinda rad.
That's actually a pretty solid point. Hadn't even considered that.
Nah. You flat out described people who have a different opinion on game balance than you as "toxic pieces of shit", then you got called out, edited it to something less inflammatory but still smug and insulting. You're basically more toxic than whatever strawman it is you constructed to ridicule.
Introspection required ahead
Ashes are fine. They are a tool the game gives you. I think they are justified in their use because some bosses in this game have utterly insane levels of aggressiveness/speed and sheer HP pools, plus multiple phases, etc. - above and beyond that seen in Demons/Dark/Bloodborne (I know, have played all three of these since ER released). Not to mention these games all have summons too, (player and AI) which are part of the game. And brief distraction can be invaluable (and yes, its usually brief when the bosses usually makes quick work of your summon, even with upgrades)
Whether you win making use of ash summons, other player summons, NPC summons, spamming ranged magic, bows or other throwable weapons, spamming weapon skills, dropping poison/rot on a foe and then playing keepaway while the HP ticks down, using cold status, putting them to sleep, exploiting bleed, exploiting other weaknesses, using the environment to shield yourself or attack from "safe" spots, or via horseback combat (when viable) - ALL are legit strategy, and the notion that a win isn't a win unless you face foe X with nothing but melee strikes from the weapon in hand, is utter BS.
Whether you win making use of ash summons, other player summons, NPC summons, spamming ranged magic, bows or other throwable weapons, spamming weapon skills, dropping poison/rot on a foe and then playing keepaway while the HP ticks down, using cold status, putting them to sleep, exploiting bleed, exploiting other weaknesses, using the environment to shield yourself or attack from "safe" spots, or via horseback combat (when viable) - ALL are legit strategy, and the notion that a win isn't a win unless you face foe X with nothing but melee strikes from the weapon in hand, is utter BS.
what? I wasn't trying to be smug. I was calling out what I kept seeing.
while it's true that I did use "mindless pieces of shits" to describe a group of people (and I regret that so I chose to remove it), I used that describe to people who tell others that using sprit ashes ruins the game (and yes that is being bitter and bickering) and not to people who chose not to use them.
I don't get what your trying to do here?
but sure label me toxic just because I wanted to call something out.
Wait... is this FF now :PBullying Malenia with 3 Elden Beast BOSS Spirit Summons (30 seconds kill)
She deserves that lol► Discord Server Link: https://discord.gg/YADRJqqMrA► Support this channel on Patreon, and get access to many benefits!https://www.patre...
lol
I think it's just people getting them before you. I gave up on summoning other players and just got Tiche to +10 lol.
I think the OP is not really worded fairly and is conflating two issues-- do interact with the gameplay well & should people gatekeep in games?
Summons are undoubtedly an intended mechanic; I really doubt anyone would even question that. Is the mechanic implemented well? No, not at all. They break the AI and make many boss fights trivial. Acting as a distraction is game breaking powerful in the Souls engine, since it means you don't have to engage with the primary mechanics of the gameplay (learning boss patterns). Ideally, summons could make a fight easier without allowing one to bypass the entire primary gameplay design of bosses.
Does this mean people should shit on others for using it? Absolutely, not. I don't use them, because I actually find the Soul's combat very engaging and it's not fun to just wack a boss in the back. But, if others are there to experience the exploration/narrative and don't care for the combat, then who am I to tell them not to use the summons
Summons are undoubtedly an intended mechanic; I really doubt anyone would even question that. Is the mechanic implemented well? No, not at all. They break the AI and make many boss fights trivial. Acting as a distraction is game breaking powerful in the Souls engine, since it means you don't have to engage with the primary mechanics of the gameplay (learning boss patterns). Ideally, summons could make a fight easier without allowing one to bypass the entire primary gameplay design of bosses.
Does this mean people should shit on others for using it? Absolutely, not. I don't use them, because I actually find the Soul's combat very engaging and it's not fun to just wack a boss in the back. But, if others are there to experience the exploration/narrative and don't care for the combat, then who am I to tell them not to use the summons
The mimic is still the best summon since it is highly customizable and not predetermined
Yes Black Knife and Lhutel are great but you can't customize them to be broken
The issue with the mimick comes when you have too much stuff equipped and they start using random spells or throwing items
That's not what I mean.
It basically feels like the last 25% fo the game didn't get the same attention as the rest of the game. The balancing for everything after the Capitol feels out of whack, and not in-line with how the rest of the game progressed pretty naturally. Past the Capitol, it feels like you have to go back and grind some more to "prepare"...and that's just not really fun, especially with the number of enemies that can kill you with 1-2 very rapid hits.
My mimic either used Dragon breath spells, Fortissax's Lightning Spear, Frenzied Flame or healing and buffs.
He is amazing =)
They are in the game and therefore, I use them. You don't like them then don't use them. It's wonderful to have options.
I believe the issue with balancing and the spike in difficulty is because the game past Liurnia seems to balanced around the same level range, there's literally no difference in difficulty going straight to the capital, going to Volcano Manor, fighting Radahn or going into any of the optional areas, they have around the same difficulty and you can do them in any order, but you keep getting stronger and stronger each area you clear, after clearing any of those you are overleveled for the rest. Then the last portion of the game tries to catch up and it can feel very jarring because it's so sudden. It's the price they have to pay to have it be open world while keeping the RPG leveling mechanics.
The reason this happens is that some individuals come into literally any thread looking for a fight. This is because when you "win" a fight on the internet you get a little hit of dopamine and want more so you start seeing fights when there isn't one.
I'm not saying I'm immune to this either but I wish this kind of thing were softly moderated so people would realize they are doing it and curb their behavior.
I don't use them all the time, but the other poll options are not applicable to me. I use them when I feel like it, which is pretty often. A win is a win in these games.
I will use them if its either a gank boss, or if a boss begins to frustrate me. I'm getting too old to care about some false sense of clout for beating everything solo.
I also dont hesitate to summon NPC's when available for lore/immersion reasons.
I also dont hesitate to summon NPC's when available for lore/immersion reasons.
This is a much more nuanced and well explained take, thank you!
They could have avoided this with some more rigid pathing and direction, which obviously goes against typical Souls design, and FROM seems to make these games with "tradition" and consistency in mind. Honestly it's something they should have done, considering a fully "open world" is also a departure from tradition for them. If they would have done a better job just closing off some areas until later in the game, they could have balanced each area more, and the entire game would benefit from it.
The studio really just needs to stop being so stubborn and concede that sometimes you *need* change in your games. Particularly when you're on the (effectively) six entry into this series / genre. At this point the games are starting to feel like Call of Duty in terms of stagnation in design principles. It's in desperate need of several refreshes in a few areas.
I mean they did do that with stuff like the mountains and the Haligtree. Even more aggressive route-blocking than they already did would just beg the question of why do an open world at all if everything has to be done in a strict order?
I use them + cheese weapons + I'm over leveled on my first play through. I've made peace with everyone having their own approach to From games. My approach from the Dark Souls days is "how can I troll the trolls?" I perceive From's games difficulty as tongue-in-cheek so I try to respond in kind. And they're immensely enjoyable to me that way.
The poll options are loaded, people are interpreting option A in two very different ways
Not everything. Areas.
Breath of the Wild does this well by placing strong enemies in certain areas, limiting progression to others (eg stamina restrictions, etc), and specific story elements locking out other places. Elden Ring does *some* of this, but doesn't quite take it far enough, so you wind up with groups of areas that feel like they were balanced together, instead of a natural progressive manner. This means you wind up overpowered for some areas, and wildly underpowered for others (basically most of the stuff after the Capitol).
I'm not proposing that everything in the game have a strict order. I'm saying that specific areas should be balanced in a way that encourages a natural progression through those areas. It's very clear FROM had an extremely difficult time balancing the entire game because they tried too hard to stick to tradition, rather than simply redefining certain elements for the new exploration format.
I mean my current favorite ash is Latenna for a lot of fights in open spaces (dragons in particular last night.) Find a space for her relatively out of harms way and then my job is not quite tank it's more like 'jester': make a big enough show of myself around the dragon on torrent, couple of swipes, lots of dodging and just let her do her little plinkty plink slow kill. I think this also speaks to the general topic theme. That's like a whole fun new way to deal with a Souls boss. From a perspective one could say 'easier' but actually there's a lot of tactics, thinking, gear, and yeah straight up button timing etc to make that strategy work. I also don't mind OP things but it just really is a good example of something ER did really well which was to build in more playstyles.
Stop trying to make me (or other people) do things things they don't want to do. You can make a case for why it's fun and leave it to the person to make a choice.
You don't have the permission to try and make people play a certain way or do things a certain way. If that's how you did it, great.
There's a world of difference between "I find it more fun to do X" and "Doing X is the way it was intended and every other way is bad".
I used them all the time and think they are a great addition to the game. They also work to make differeny builds more viable, such as ranger/mage.
Yeah, unfortunately, the structural design choices that are so freeing also run head-first into the pretty traditional leveling system. The numbers-go-up philosophy of the game undercuts a lot of its open world allures, and vice versa.
For a while, I didn't use them. Then I started running into group bosses or bosses ringing in their own summons, so I was like, fine, you're going to play that way? Then so will I. Never looked back after that. I like that they can draw aggro off of me for a bit so that I can observe patterns/range/telegraphs. They aren't immune to and often do really dumb stuff that can actually hurt you or reduce your own effectiveness, but for the most part, I like using them. Had Mimic, Tiche, and Latenna on me all at +10 going through the last several areas.