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Finale Fireworker

Love each other or die trying.
Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,713
United States
Game development is costly and intensive work. You don't get anything for free - it all has to be made by someone, somewhere, with limited time and limited budget. So as much as I love to see new things, I have a really abiding appreciation for games that make the most out of their assets. Asset reuse can be really offputting in certain egregious circumstances, but it can also be really compelling and elegant as well. I thought it might be cool to talk about that and give some credit to games that rely on really efficient game design.

Sekiro-01-HD.png


Sekiro was one of my favorite games from last gen and is loaded with frugal design decisions that don't at all detract from the experience. You fight almost every miniboss twice and some even more than that. They have different names and slightly different appearances but they are mechanically identical. Because Sekiro is a demanding game that takes practice, this means you get two chances to prove yourself against these enemies. You have your first encounter where you learn their patterns and the methods to defeat them and then you have the subsequent encounter where you can really put what you learned to the test.

I really love this about Sekiro. Sometimes I'd get stuck on a miniboss for a long time and throw myself at them over and over and over trying to find the best (or cheapest) way to beat them. But then when I encounter their equal later, I get to use everything I learned the first time to dispatch them much more effectively.

In addition to this, Sekiro is eager to re-use map spaces and arenas for different types of encounters. You might fight two different story-critical bosses in the same place. You might pass through an area multiple times only to find a new boss has spawned there later in the game. There are some areas that are very self-contained or cordoned off, but there are others that you play in repeatedly in slightly different world states. I think it speaks to how creatively these locations and these enemies are used that despite their repeated appearances it never felt stale to me.



Nier-Automata-11-HD.png


I only played Nier: Automata for the first time earlier this year when looking for something new to play in quarantine. I resisted it for a long time. I don't usually play games like this. A big part of why I finally chose to play it was so that I could say, definitively, it was not as good as people said. I ended up being wrong about that. I really loved the game and I particularly love it from the perspective of this topic.

Automata features 26 "endings" - one for each letter of the alphabet, that can be triggered by performing various actions in multiple points of the story. Most of these are gag endings, like having a robot eat a fish or going the wrong way in the first level and being never seen again. But the narrative structure of the proper campaigns, which feature multiple playable characters, is fascinating. You play the same map and interact with a lot of the same characters in a lot of the same locations. You fight some bosses multiple times. But the vantage point from which you see them is so different and so unique. You don't feel as though you are playing the same game you already did, you feel like you are playing a different side of the game you did not see before.

Nier Automata has an austere world map with only a few different environments. You run through it over and over again and take the terrain for granted by the end as it becomes something you've seen and explored repeatedly. But while the world around you stays the same, your perspective changes so much that it almost does not feel like the same world at all. The same world just looks different with new eyes.

Automata is a great example of building a stage and allowing multiple different stories to play out on top of it. It is very efficient, wasteless game design.

---------------

I am sure there are lots of examples of games that make the most of their assets. Even if it's not part of the game's design ethos like the ones I mentioned, there are individual enemies or levels that would fit criteria like this. Sometimes something hits different the second time around, you know? Do you have any favorites of something like this?

To add some flavor to the topic I suppose you could also discuss asset reuse you really didn't like, but I'd prefer to keep it positive. However to throw something into that pile, I really didn't care for the Honeyhive and Gold Leaf Galaxies being mirrored and rethemed versions of each other in Super Mario Galaxy. It's not a concept I dislike - in fact it's obviously something I am open to given this topic - but I don't think either level is interesting enough in layout or identity to justify their relationship as such.
 

Derachi

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,699
I think Kamurocho from the Yakuza series is easily my favourite re-used environment. By using the same map over and over again, but having the games all be set in different years, it really helps the game world feel both familiar and different. It could be anything, from Millenium Tower being built between 0 and Kiwami, Kamurocho Hills being built in 2, the Don Quixote being torn down and turned into a police station for 7 (this was mainly because they didn't get the Don Quixote license again) and all the times Little Asia gets burned down and rebuilt. It feels like a real place where time passes and things change, but at the same time, when I'm told to go to Tenkaichi Street, or Senryo Avenue, or Pink Street, or the Champion District, I know EXACTLY where to go.

I wish they had changed anything about Sotenbori between Kiwami 2 (takes place in 2006) and 7 (takes place in 2019)
 

TeenageFBI

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,245
Majora's Mask reuses TONS of Ocarina of Time assets. You'd think it would be distracting but everything being so familiar yet warped and twisted just works.

And yeah, Yakuza is a great example. I love seeing how the areas change over the years.
 
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Finale Fireworker

Finale Fireworker

Love each other or die trying.
Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,713
United States
I think Kamurocho from the Yakuza series is easily my favourite re-used environment. By using the same map over and over again, but having the games all be set in different years, it really helps the game world feel both familiar and different. It could be anything, from Millenium Tower being built between 0 and Kiwami, Kamurocho Hills being built in 2, the Don Quixote being torn down and turned into a police station for 7 (this was mainly because they didn't get the Don Quixote license again) and all the times Little Asia gets burned down and rebuilt. It feels like a real place where time passes and things change, but at the same time, when I'm told to go to Tenkaichi Street, or Senryo Avenue, or Pink Street, or the Champion District, I know EXACTLY where to go.

I wish they had changed anything about Sotenbori between Kiwami 2 (takes place in 2006) and 7 (takes place in 2019)
I haven't played Yakuza personally but this sounds really cool and a great example of the feeling I like.

Majora's Mask reuses TONS of Ocarina of Time assets. You'd think it would be distracting but everything being so familiar yet warped and twisted just works.

And yeah, Yakuza is a great example. I love seeing how the areas change over the years.
Major's Mask is definitely the platinum standard of what can be done with this sort of mentality.
 

Kalem

Member
May 23, 2019
444
The Spin-off FarCry games reimagining the maps of the main games while feeling ENTIRELY different
 

Temascos

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,524
Damnit, I was already beaten, I planned to mention Kamarucho!

It's such a great place, you can see how much has changed over the games what stayed the same. The passing of time is real there, and it's great. I've played 3-5, Dead Souls and currently playing through 0. I do wish there was some more underground areas to explore or that movement wasn't so rigid in the interior areas, but when I get to the games designed in the Dragon Engine I reckon that changes things up a lot.
 

PeskyToaster

Member
Oct 27, 2017
15,314
From Software games do this well because it shows your progression as a character and player. Like how Taurus and Capra demons are bosses early on and rather difficult but later when you encounter them they are just normal enemies that you destroy. Feels good that way.

I think Kamurocho from the Yakuza series is easily my favourite re-used environment. By using the same map over and over again, but having the games all be set in different years, it really helps the game world feel both familiar and different. It could be anything, from Millenium Tower being built between 0 and Kiwami, Kamurocho Hills being built in 2, the Don Quixote being torn down and turned into a police station for 7 (this was mainly because they didn't get the Don Quixote license again) and all the times Little Asia gets burned down and rebuilt. It feels like a real place where time passes and things change, but at the same time, when I'm told to go to Tenkaichi Street, or Senryo Avenue, or Pink Street, or the Champion District, I know EXACTLY where to go.

I wish they had changed anything about Sotenbori between Kiwami 2 (takes place in 2006) and 7 (takes place in 2019)
I really this sort of reuse as well though I haven't played a Yakuza game. It's smart from a production aspect and it's very rewarding to the player.


The only kind of reuse I don't like is when the game pretends that its not being reused. Like in Destiny or something when the game pretends that I didn't just clear the entire base of enemies not five minutes before being sent there again and it's suddenly repopulated. Or Dragon Age having a bunch of fights take place in the same alleyway or all of the bandits using the exact same hideouts.
 

nded

Member
Nov 14, 2017
10,579
Taskmaster in UMvC3 is asset recycling done right. Aside from the animations, if you look closely you can see that his character model is based on Captain America's.
 
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Finale Fireworker

Finale Fireworker

Love each other or die trying.
Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,713
United States
Taskmaster in UMvC3 is asset recycling done right. Aside from the animations, if you look closely you can see that his character model is based on Captain America's.
Super Smash Bros has had a divisive history with this but I think in the wake of Ultimate most people have come around to it being a good thing for the series.
 

Tatsu91

Banned
Apr 7, 2019
3,147
I think Kamurocho from the Yakuza series is easily my favourite re-used environment. By using the same map over and over again, but having the games all be set in different years, it really helps the game world feel both familiar and different. It could be anything, from Millenium Tower being built between 0 and Kiwami, Kamurocho Hills being built in 2, the Don Quixote being torn down and turned into a police station for 7 (this was mainly because they didn't get the Don Quixote license again) and all the times Little Asia gets burned down and rebuilt. It feels like a real place where time passes and things change, but at the same time, when I'm told to go to Tenkaichi Street, or Senryo Avenue, or Pink Street, or the Champion District, I know EXACTLY where to go.

I wish they had changed anything about Sotenbori between Kiwami 2 (takes place in 2006) and 7 (takes place in 2019)
I do agree it is the smartest reuse of level design i have ever seen.
 

sweetmini

Member
Jun 12, 2019
3,921
I think Kamurocho from the Yakuza series is easily my favourite re-used environment. By using the same map over and over again, but having the games all be set in different years, it really helps the game world feel both familiar and different. It could be anything, from Millenium Tower being built between 0 and Kiwami, Kamurocho Hills being built in 2, the Don Quixote being torn down and turned into a police station for 7 (this was mainly because they didn't get the Don Quixote license again) and all the times Little Asia gets burned down and rebuilt. It feels like a real place where time passes and things change, but at the same time, when I'm told to go to Tenkaichi Street, or Senryo Avenue, or Pink Street, or the Champion District, I know EXACTLY where to go.

Indeed, this is my favorite.
Having the DQ replaced was a heartbreaker :(
and... i hope the bowling is not closed next game.
 

Derachi

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,699
Indeed, this is my favorite.
Having the DQ replaced was a heartbreaker :(
and... i hope the bowling is not closed next game.
I think that one might have been out of their control. If the ドンキ company didn't want to be in the game anymore, or if they couldn't manage a deal with Sega or something, at least they did something story related with that iconic store, rather than just... I dunno, replace it with yet another Poppo or something.

If they're not gonna bring back Mach Bowl, at least bring back Rizap hahaha
 

Roxas

The Fallen
Oct 28, 2017
3,575
Buenos Aires, Argentina
On the yakuza note, my memory of Kamurocho was very strong to the point that in 6 they changed where the karaoke bar was located and it killed me, it was always in the same location at the southeastern corner of the city
 

Gunny T Highway

Unshakable Resolve - One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
17,028
Canada
On the yakuza note, my memory of Kamurocho was very strong to the point that in 6 they changed where the karaoke bar was located and it killed me, it was always in the same location at the southeastern corner of the city
I was going to say Yakuza as well. For the most part I kind of like how Kamurocho does not change too much from game to game. It is like going back to your hometown after not visiting for a couple of years.
 

Archduke Kong

Member
Feb 2, 2019
2,313
One of my favorite Souls tropes is using one of the early game bosses as a late game enemy. DS1 has the Capra Demons and Taurus Demons in the Demon Ruins, and DS2 brings the Flexile Sentry back when you go to the Shaded Woods. I think DS1 was more jarring with it (the enemies didn't look like they belonged in that environment), but being able to take down those initially tough bosses with your now leveled up character and your more powerful weapons is a great reminder of how far you've come.
 

Semajer

Member
Oct 27, 2017
779
I thought Tales of Xillia 2 was a decent way to reuse pretty much all of Xillia's assets again.
 

jtb

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,065
I loved visiting all the KOTOR 1 planets in KOTOR 2 even though both had tons of copy-pasted assets
 

Semajer

Member
Oct 27, 2017
779
Was that Majora's Mask-style?
I don't think it was quite as well implemented as Majora's Mask, which introduced a lot of new assets. Xillia 2 has you entering splinter timelines/universes from the main world where locations and characters are different from the main world. It was a nice way to extend the game length while allowing for interactions and battles with characters that would otherwise be unavailable.
 

OrangeNova

Member
Oct 30, 2017
12,669
Canada
Halo 1

When you have to go backwards through some of the levels after unleashing the flood to get back to the Pillar of Autumn, it just felt so epic.
 

Tailzo

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,945
I think Kamurocho from the Yakuza series is easily my favourite re-used environment. By using the same map over and over again, but having the games all be set in different years, it really helps the game world feel both familiar and different. It could be anything, from Millenium Tower being built between 0 and Kiwami, Kamurocho Hills being built in 2, the Don Quixote being torn down and turned into a police station for 7 (this was mainly because they didn't get the Don Quixote license again) and all the times Little Asia gets burned down and rebuilt. It feels like a real place where time passes and things change, but at the same time, when I'm told to go to Tenkaichi Street, or Senryo Avenue, or Pink Street, or the Champion District, I know EXACTLY where to go.

I wish they had changed anything about Sotenbori between Kiwami 2 (takes place in 2006) and 7 (takes place in 2019)
Yeah, I was thinking of Yakuza series too. Some new locations, but old good ones like kamurocho being reused in a good way.
 

Rotobit

Editor at Nintendo Wire
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
10,196
I like that the Trails series' typical structure is introduce areas in the first game, along with their local politics, key figures, and some quirky characters, then revisit after a timeskip in the next entry. Often times there are areas in the first game that are barred off that you can revisit later. Really sells the brilliant world building. It does make it hard to marathon them, tho.

Also taking a trip to Persona 3's setting in Persona 4 is cute

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Makes sense they couldn't do the same with 5 considering the engine overhaul but it's still a bit of a shame
 

Kasey

Member
Nov 1, 2017
10,822
Boise
I like that big crazy ferris wheel in the Alan Wake DLC that takes you back through old levels.
 

Trode

Member
Mar 27, 2018
310
Castlevania: Symphony of the Night

The inverted castle is a really smart reuse of the environment you've explored and 'castle as a creature of chaos' concept the game introduced earlier on. The upside down level design, the color changes, new obstacles and enemies give it an 'off' vibe that contribute to the impeccable atmosphere of SOTN. Rather than just being a retread, it feels like a chaotic and unpredictable journey through a castle you thought you had mastered.
 

Blade24070

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,003
The RPD station in both 3 and R3make. Funnily enough, both games have inconsistencies with their predecessor 2/R2make.
 

Rodney McKay

Member
Oct 26, 2017
12,215
Halo 1

When you have to go backwards through some of the levels after unleashing the flood to get back to the Pillar of Autumn, it just felt so epic.
Yeah, a lot of people shit on those levels since they are reused, but they're some of my favorite levels in the game. Especially Two Betrayals with the snow level at night, love that one so much.
 

Hero Prinny

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,192
in Dead Space 2 you revisit the ship from the first game. Its easily the spookiest moment in 1 and 2 for me. However my favorite example of reuse assets is Kanto being a bonus region in silver/gold/crystal back in the day.
 

Angst

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,430
Danganronpa 2. The school. I can't say more than that because its a huge spoiler, but if you know, you know.
 
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Finale Fireworker

Finale Fireworker

Love each other or die trying.
Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,713
United States
Pokémon Gold & Silver is such a cool example because they literally took the old game and crammed it inside the new game and the benefit of that was incredible.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,801
New York City
Wanted to mention Majora's Mask, which is so good at this...

But Kamurocho (and also Sotenbori) is one of the other coolest examples of this. It turns into a living town that you are familiar with for years... Kind of like in your own neighborhood where you might be like "my favorite store used to be there... I have fond memories at this restaurant... This used to be a row of homes... I remember this spot is where I met the woman I love" kind of thing, but in a video game.
 

eddiemunstr

Member
Jan 20, 2019
1,532
Not sure if it counts but there is a mod for the old fps game Blood called Death Wish. Its basically a full game with entirely new levels which is impressive, but in a world where this is now common for old fps games to get mods that add a full games set of levels or gameplay modification this doesnt make it stand out.

What makes the game stand out and really shine against others is that this mod uses entirely assets from the normal game, but they are used so creatively and have such great level design it really proves the saying "less is more" in a world where mods are typically full of new custom assets. The levels are themed on movies much like the original Blood was, but this mod just goes above and beyond in the awesome ways it does it to the point that when you play a level and see it you just think "how was this not in the original game, it fits so perfectly". The level design and transition between areas is also pretty amazing considering the engine this game is running on, and even not taking into consideration technical limitations of the engine they are just well done in general.
 

Bigwombat

Banned
Nov 30, 2018
3,416
I think the trolls in God of War were a good use of reusing assets.










Psych! That was infuriating. The enemies in either ghost or tlou2 being reused in a decent way. They can switch out a few pieces of clothing or change the color and it doesn't bother me at all.
 

Feep

Lead Designer, Iridium Studios
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
4,603
The creepy-as-fuck Promyvion areas in Final Fantasy XI are a good example of this. Similar assets, ABSOLUTELY TERRIFYING NIGHTMARE VERSION.

Pokemon Gold and Silver gets a rad shout-out, praise be to Iwata.
 

TheXbox

Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 29, 2017
6,565
Sekiro is a great example, although From handles their recycled assets and environments so elegantly it would never have occurred to me without reading the OP. Every recurrence is like an exam, testing your prior knowledge and pushing you against new behaviors. It would be impossible to truly master the game without revisiting old enemies.
 

Deleted member 23212

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
11,225
Marvel vs. Capcom 2 is basically Marvel and Capcom MUGEN, especially for the Marvel side (sans Cable and Marrow).
 
Oct 26, 2017
9,939
It's a really simple one but I love the Signal palette swaps in Streets of Rage 2. Fantastic use of the Mega Drive's limited color palettes. The spritework in general is superb throughout the whole game.

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