What are some franchises that have cut mechanics from their games over time in the pursuit of being more streamlined?

[galv]

I'm thinking of games like Mass Effect, which streamlined itself by cutting the Mako/planetary exploration and removing some of the RPG elements when moving forward towards Mass Effect 2. Usually, the streamlining/removal of these useless mechanics benefit these games in a positive way. On the flip side, we have games like Red Dead Redemption 2, which expanded on what made Red Dead Redemption so great, or The Witcher 3 which added onto The Witcher 2 and made it a fully open-world game.

Any games immediately jump to mind? Do you prefer games to iterate on past sequels and get better, or do you prefer streamlining and cutting out the fluff so to speak?

 

[Stronginthearm]

Pokemon.

 

[DeoGame]

Fire Emblem cut the complexity with Awakening (or SHadow Dragon/New mystery, but those are remakes so it's iffy) and trickled it back in with Fates, Echoes and Three Houses. I hated the change but it did win a market, and they have done a better job of merging the old with the new in a way that feels less like a regression and more like a natural evolution after Radiant Dawn.

Also, I prefer Iteration often, but sometimes mechanics just suck. Like, hearing that Wasteland 3 has gone from progressive turn-based (i.e. by unit) to tactics style turn and team-based warms my heart.

 

[Annabel]

Well Pokemon is the big one right now.

Feel like this is common with RPGs in general though.

 

[RadzPrower]

I mean, that's not an either or scenario.

Ideally, you do both cutting of some stuff that wasn't well received or otherwise needs to go, but you should also always be adding new functionality and/or content.

 

[ThreepQuest64]

Assassin's Creed. I really miss the social stealth mechanics.

 

[Future Gazer]

Pokemon

 

[DNAbro]

Destiny to Destiny 2 and boy did they have to walk back in that one. Some of the ramifications are still felt in the current iteration.

 

[TheEchosOfTheCyborg]

Dragon Age is a weird because it has and for the better, but then brought them back in an improved way, same with Mass Effect gameplay wise.

Elder Scrolls

Street Fighter IV is this to 3 and so is Mortal Kombat Armageddon/vs DC Universe to MK9

 

[Mr Jones]

Mario damn near became a ninja in Mario 64. He had more moves than he could ever use, that only ended up getting used in speed runs, like his jumping dive, and his sweep kick (!).

EVERY single Mario game after that lowered his moveset. Including Galaxy and Odyssey.

 

[Deleted member 7883]

Bethesda with Elder Scrolls and Fallout. Oblivion was far more streamlined than Morrowind, same with Skyrim when compared with Oblivion. Some changes were good, others were... questionable. Fallout 4 is even less of an RPG than Skyrim, let alone Fallout 3. Above all else I really hope that Bethesda starts adding more RPG elements into starfield and especially TES VI.

 

[TransEuropaExpress]

The Evil Within had those cool ass matches and traps which weren't present in The Evil Within 2.

 

[Deleted member 18944]

Splinter basically removed all the mechanics of Chaos Theory to streamline the game.

This was a good move for Conviction because it logically made sense. Sam was no longer about stealth, he just wanted to fucking kill some dudes. But then blacklist hit and it's just not the same franchise anymore.

 

[steviestar3]

Mario damn near became a ninja in Mario 64. He had more moves than he could ever use, that only ended up getting used in speed runs, like his jumping dive, and his sweep kick (!).

EVERY single Mario game after that lowered his moveset. Including Galaxy and Odyssey.

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You'd be right if you were just talking about the Galaxy and 3D Land/World games, but lumping every single post-Mario 64 game together is disingenuous. Sunshine and Odyssey have just as much if not more advanced movement tech as Mario 64 does.

 

[Airbar]

Bethesda with Elder Scrolls and Fallout. Oblivion was far more streamlined than Morrowind, same with Skyrim when compared with Oblivion. Some changes were good, others were... questionable. Fallout 4 is even less of an RPG than Skyrim, let alone Fallout 3. Above all else I really hope that Bethesda starts adding more RPG elements into starfield and especially TES VI.

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I don't think they will. Skyrim was by far their biggest success, they probably streamline their next games even more.

 

[Transistor]

Bethesda with Elder Scrolls and Fallout. Oblivion was far more streamlined than Morrowind, same with Skyrim when compared with Oblivion. Some changes were good, others were... questionable. Fallout 4 is even less of an RPG than Skyrim, let alone Fallout 3. Above all else I really hope that Bethesda starts adding more RPG elements into starfield and especially TES VI.

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This is a good example. Expanding combat was a great improvement in Oblivion / Skyrim. Removing skills and turning the game into a connect the dots simulator was not.

 

[fourfourfun]

Fallout 4 had no need to dump the junk collection crafting meta on the game, absolutely was not balanced for it and made the entire game a trudge.

 

[Platy]

Every Marvel vs Capcom cut something

Like 2 cut special partners and 2 buttons and infinite cut a character per team and more

 

[Chopchop]

Does the vote have to be either/or? You're supposed to cut out what didn't work while improving on what you kept.

Doom 2016 threw out pretty much everything not central to shooting demons in the face, then improved on shooting demons in the face.

Doom 3 tried to make Doom more story and horror-heavy, and it didn't work. Doom 2016 realized that, and went in the right direction.

 

[galv]

also particularly interesting examples in hitman blood money -> absolution which slowly cut down on the stealth mechanics and in the same vein the descent between, thief -> thi4f

 

[TheDinoman]

I dunno, Smash? Melee had a lot of crazy tech that didn't make it into later installments.

 

[Deleted member 49535]

I mean, removing stuff that doesn't work is obviously good. But removing for the sake of removing to add some random stuff I don't care about just because "it's new" like Pokemon does is awful.

 

[Deleted member 7883]

I don't think they will. Skyrim was by far their biggest success, they probably streamline their next games even more.

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I'm not so sure. There was a helluva lot of Streamlining in between Skyrim and Fallout 4, both were helmed by Todd Howard. Fallout 4 was the first time they (Bethesda Softworks) didn't win GOTY since... Morrowind I think? With the GOTY going to Witcher 3, I really hope that that was a slap in the face of sorts to stop dumbing down the formula and keep the games RPGs instead of slowly turning all their games into an action romp. A LOT happened to Bethesda's public image from the release of Skyrim to today. I'm too stubborn to think that Todd wouldn't take any of the changes in games/the industry/bethesda's reception into account when planning for TES VI.

This is my favorite series of all time, I'm having difficulty believing it'll be even more dumbed down. I just can't do it man :(

 

[Deleted member 48897]

Pokemon Sword/Shield really out here reminding me how much I miss the chao garden.

 

[Kcannon]

Resident Evil 7.

 

[Airbar]

I'm not so sure. There was a helluva lot of Streamlining in between Skyrim and Fallout 4, both were helmed by Todd Howard. Fallout 4 was the first time they (Bethesda Softworks) didn't win GOTY since... Morrowind I think? With the GOTY going to Witcher 3, I really hope that that was a slap in the face of sorts to stop dumbing down the formula and keep the games RPGs instead of slowly turning all their games into an action romp. A LOT happened to Bethesda's public image from the release of Skyrim to today. I'm too stubborn to think that Todd wouldn't take any of the changes in games/the industry/bethesda's reception into account when planning for TES VI.

This is my favorite series of all time, I'm having difficulty believing it'll be even more dumbed down. I just can't do it man :(

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My perception (that could be completely off, mind you) has always been that the driving force behind this simplification actually is Todd Howard. Maybe a mix of Skyrim and FO4 is the furthest they'll go in the future. But Bethesda (the dev) is in the business of selling power fantasy simulators, not RPG's.

 

[Kcannon]

Mario damn near became a ninja in Mario 64. He had more moves than he could ever use, that only ended up getting used in speed runs, like his jumping dive, and his sweep kick (!).

EVERY single Mario game after that lowered his moveset. Including Galaxy and Odyssey.

Click to shrink...

Odyssey Mario overall has more moves than 64 Mario.

Same for Sunshine, where FLUDD adds a lot in expense of... punching I guess. And maybe the long jump.

 

[Mr.Deadshot]

Resistance 2 removed the weapon wheel which was reintroduced in 3 because it got a lot of flak for it. On the other side, it vastly expanded it's multiplayer.

 

[TransEuropaExpress]

Resident Evil 7.

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This is a really weird one for me. I still enjoyed it to some degree but Remake 2 made the whole stripped-back-to-nearly-nothing gameplay feel even more bizarre to me in hindsight.

 

[Mr Jones]

No, Sunshine didn't have as large of a Move set for Mario.

Check out his list in Mario 64:

https://strategywiki.org/wiki/Super_Mario_64/Controls

Here's his list in Mario Sunshine

https://strategywiki.org/wiki/Super_Mario_Sunshine/Controls

To be fair, no one really really punched or kicked in Mario 64, so those moves aren't missed. The gameplay was better (to me) in games like Galaxy and Odyssey, but the mechanics of Mario's movements in Mario 64 were reduced.

 

[L4DANathan]

Mass Effect. The complete cutting away of the planet exploration was jarring and made me resent 2 even before I realized that the entire main plot was just filler. ME3 and some of the ME2 DLC brought back a *little* of it, but nowhere near the scope of 1.

Spoiler

Not to mention completely removing any and all writing talent from the story/lore.

 

[Bit_Reactor]

I think sometimes you have to do a reset. I think Monster Hunter World took away a lot of things vets liked about it (I'm not a vet) but are slowly bringing them back, and Ithink after the QoL adjustments it can get more complicated over time without losing its streamlined-ness.

Things like Pokemon are iffy though. It constantly cuts shit in its sequels, have no idea why.

 

[Patryn]

Elder Scrolls, Diablo and Dragon Age have stripped away the player's ability to set initial stats and stat growth in favor of automating it. This is done in order to prevent people from making non-viable characters, but it's at the cost of players discovering unintended cool and great builds.

A loss, in my opinion.

 

[Deleted member 16136]

Every single PC game that used to be "exclusive" and went multi platform.

Hmmm, I wonder how a thread would go with the question of which PC games didnt lose anything after going multi platform?

 

[Jaded Alyx]

No More Heroes 2 removed the GTA style city

Street Fighter IV removed parries, Street Fighter V removed Focus.. In fact you can name a lot of fighting games here

 

[Gilver]

I like games to add on to what past games did the best and remove everything non essential, so both?
First thing I thought of was DMC 5 (shocker!) because they refined and added upon the combat a bunch and removed puzzles/platforming/down time, etc that was never good in past games. So they streamlined the game but also added upon the best part (also DOOM 2016 is a good example of making the cool part better and removing everything else).

 

[Patapuf]

Every single PC game that used to be "exclusive" and went multi platform.

Hmmm, I wonder how a thread would go with the question of which PC games didnt lose anything after going multi platform?

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Yeah this.

Most of the franchises that went PC--> Xbox/the other consoles lost something.

Elder Scrolls and Bioshock being the first that come to mind, but there's lots of others.

 

[HylianSeven]

Yeah this thread feels like it was made about Pokemon.

I'm okay with the fluff being cut, but the problem is the things Game Freak/TPC defines as "fluff". Cutting Pokemon, cutting the GTS of all things (that one I cannot understand by any stretch), cutting moves, cutting Mega Evolution (an actual neat mechanic) and replacing it with Dynamaxing/Gigantamaxing (a lamer poor man's Mega Evolution).

I get that modeling and animating 900+ creatures is a huge undertaking, and from one sense I can understand the decision to cut Pokemon, but I wish they would have taken more time to work on the game. Cutting things like the GTS is absolutely baffling and honestly pretty inexcusable to me. Gen 7 cut Super Training for some reason, and so it felt like getting desired EVs was much more of a pain and not as straightforward process.

 

[laxu]

I'm still disappointed GTA IV and V removed the gym and most of the restaurant options that were in SA. That wasn't an improvement at all.

Then on the opposite end you have the latest Tomb Raider trilogy that added the largely pointless crafting mechanics to the game. They made a bit of sense for the first one's survival theme but I feel that crafting has been the "popular feature thrown in to pad the game just because" feature for years. At least the crafting was pretty straightforward so it doesn't get all that much in the way.

Every sequel should both add to the mechanics that work and streamline those that are overly complicated.

 

[Robochimp]

Elder Scrolls, Diablo and Dragon Age have stripped away the player's ability to set initial stats and stat growth in favor of automating it. This is done in order to prevent people from making non-viable characters, but it's at the cost of players discovering unintended cool and great builds.

A loss, in my opinion.

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In Diablo's case it was to make players efficient enough to monetize every step they took by way of the real money auction house.

 

[SatelliteOfLove]

Elder Scrolls is the poster boy for this in terms of number of possibilities, with World of Warcraft in the functionality department.

 

[Deleted member 48897]

The gameplay was better (to me) in games like Galaxy and Odyssey, but the mechanics of Mario's movements in Mario 64 were reduced.

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I do feel like the moveset difference between Odyssey and 64 is pretty minimal, but I don't know if the moveset feels different in scope vs. the fact that they do a better job of associating moves with specific contexts in Odyssey. The jump + dive move combination is pretty powerful in both 64 and Odyssey, and while it's arguably harder to chain in the latter, the longjump and the roll are more effective and easier to control while over the ground anyway. Basically, the base moveset for Mario (even without Cappy) is closer to what I wish 64 had been like because it's a deep moveset where Mario is overall more consistent in his controls -- but one of the bigger reasons just comes down to the fact that he has a lot more aerial control in general.

 

[Uthred]

Diablo 3 did a lot to streamline the previous entries. Possibly it went a bit too far in terms of equipment. But being able to fluidly change your build was a big step up and showed solid respect for a players time (having to level an entire new character for a different build is incredibly archaic). Removing a lot of tedious or false choices from skill trees to focus instead on stuff that had a radical impact on the skill or gameplay was also a solid innovation. I'd much rather level up and get "Now your axe shoots out flaming skulls or some shit!" than "Now you have a largely imperceptible +3% to crit!"

 

[Jakisthe]

I'd *much* rather see unpopular elements reworked than removed. I can think of very few examples where any mechanic is just a lost cause and should just be entirely abandoned. Maybe something like (and I swear this isn't bait, it just most prominently comes to mind) BotW's durability?

There's also QoL stuff which I guess some would count as "dumbing down" but I'd just say makes sense with the advancement of design philosophies. Multiple Building Selection in Starcraft 2, for instance, got old school players all steamed, but the reality is that having it just be one building at a time is silly busy work which does nothing but add extra clicks and brings very little in terms of strategic or tactical thinking. I see that as just a QoL change though, not really a mechanic loss.

 

[Glio]

It happens on many occasions that a franchise as it progresses is increasingly focusing on the most hardcore and noisy public and is losing along the way what made it popular in a moment.

There is a Miyamoto's quote about this.

"What's happening with video games is the same thing that happens with anything new and interesting. At the beginning, everybody wants to see what it is. They gather around and check it out. But gradually, people start to lose interest.

"The people who don't lose interest become more and more involved... And the medium starts to be influenced by only those people. It becomes something exclusive to the people who've stuck with it for a long time. And when the people who were interested in it at first look back at it, it's no longer the thing that interested them."

 

[Deleted member 59109]

I was thinking of Mass Effect too. The games got much more linear and streamlined over the series, to the point where in 3 you can't even holster your weapon for most missions. It's very obviously just a shooter game at that point. 2 reduced the amount of planets you could just land and explore on, though sometimes scanning would unlock a "secret" mission you could fly down to. 3 didn't even have this, none of the planetary scanning revealed any opportunities to land.

Andromeda tried to revert this but it was bad for many other reasons.

 

[PtM]

Why not both?

 

[Hazzuh]

Most fighting game franchises have been removing mechanics and options from their games for at least the past decade. Guilty Gear is the latest example unfortunately.

 

[Weltall Zero]

To be fair, no one really really punched or kicked in Mario 64, so those moves aren't missed.

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Speak for yourself, I jump-kicked fools left and right. :D

 

[Mr Jones]

LMAO!