• Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
  • We have made minor adjustments to how the search bar works on ResetEra. You can read about the changes here.

ScOULaris

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,629
Having grown up playing fighting games in arcades extensively all throughout my youth, my history with the genre goes nearly as far back as my gaming hobby has existed. I lived through the fighting game depression of the mid-2000's as arcades completely died out in the United States and online play wasn't yet standard for the genre, and then I rejoiced as the genre came roaring back on broadband-connected consoles. The genre is arguably the healthiest its been since its heyday in the mid-90's right now, in terms of the sheer number of yearly releases we get from both long-running series and indie upstarts. On the whole, it's a good time to be a fighting game fan.

But we're not living in some fighting game utopia. Far from it, I'd argue. Since fighting games as a whole are somewhat niche compared to other uber-popular genres like shooters, MOBAs, etc. they've had to change to fit the times we're in. Many of them have experimented with all sorts of convoluted (and oftentimes anti-consumer) monetization models, and some of the worst offenders are poster boys for how to piss off your fanbase with malicious microtransactions.

That's where this thread comes in. I'd like to make this a place for people to air out their grievances with common features, design decisions, or other aspects that seem to be finding their way into most modern fighting games. These complaints are coming from a place of fandom and wanting the best for the genre, at least in my case.

Here are a few that really grind my gears:
  • Out-of-place Guest Characters - I'm looking at you, NetherRealm Studios. The MK series in its modern form has virtually all of the issues that I'll be complaining about in this OP, and their overuse of immersion-breaking, gauche guest characters is right up there at the top of the list. It might not bother some people, but nothing takes me out of a fucking MORTAL KOMBAT match like going up against the likes of Freddy Kreuger, The Terminator, Jason Vorhees, Leatherface, etc. Like, come on. How the fuck do those slasher villains and random pop culture icon characters fit into the MK universe? I might sound like I'm overthinking what is supposed to be a "fun" addition, but it really cheapens the whole package for me. I just hate it.

    maxresdefault.jpg

    This isn't MK. This is some MUGEN-looking garbage.

  • Grindy Unlockables Paired with Microtransactions - Once again, MK11 is the poster child for this kind of aggravating design. Here's another clear-cut example of a fighting game series that sells well trying to milk every last fucking cent out of its fanbase by cramming the game full of cosmetic unlockables (many of which would've just been standard from the outset in previous games) that take forever to unlock and rely on RNG to make everything even more fucked in the ass. It's all designed this way to push people to simply spend additional money to try and bypass as much of the headache as they can and just get the handful of cosmetics that they'd like to use. It's capitalism creeping into game design in the most overt and shitty way possible, IMO.

    01_gift02.png

    Ugh.

  • Garish character customization options - Listen. I'm all for being able to customize the look of your character to some extent in a fighting game. That's cool on paper, but in practice most of the time the end-result is otherwise iconic characters being unrecognizable when you're playing people online. This is exacerbated by games (e.g. Tekken) that give you inherently silly, ludicrous pieces of equipment to put on that cumulatively make your character look like an eye-gouging mess of nonsense. I'm not even sure what the solution to this annoyance is other than giving people a toggle to show or not show people's custom costumes online on your end of things.

    09_tekken7rewards01.jpg

    I guess it's kind of funny, but I should be able to disable this online if I want to.
 

Nephtes

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,550
I'm with you on all that OP, but also:
  • loooooooong load times
  • Lack of bespoke intro sequences between characters with histories (see Ryu vs. Ken SFIII fight intro for when it was done right)
  • Poor netcode in fighting games originating from a certain country
  • Character select screens with UI slowed down because the dev decided to load the full 3D character model instead of using quickly loadable 2D images (or worse, character select screens that have a loading screen because it's loading all of those models before displaying character select)
  • Lack of cross play despite the game existing across multiple platforms
  • Lack of single player modes at launch

    I think that covers it..
 
Last edited:

Deleted member 56752

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
May 15, 2019
8,699
Poor netcode, bad matchmaking design (lobbies in a lot of Japanese games), load times, nonexistent tutorials. Watch the sajam video
 

Thagirion

Member
Dec 6, 2018
493
Agree with all you said, plus one that isn't related to producers but to the players which is the constant buff this nerf that, and also the tiers that now have another meaning, FGC sites give tiers even before one week of a update
 

DrMoguera

Member
Oct 27, 2017
432
The automated feel of a lot of moves like in modern Arcsys stuff. Really don't like how many moves seem to lock you into cinematics, and you can never really tell what buttons are supposed to do based off of just the basic button type anymore. Makes the game not particularly fun to play around in or lab for me. These feel like moves made to simplify flashiness, but I find it to be making things more convoluted overall.
 

TheBaldwin

Member
Feb 25, 2018
8,291
Agree with you on the garish fighting costumes. Let me turn off the damn things if I want to. Soul Cal customisation is funny and creative, Tekkens is just dumb (although as much as I love tekken its normal character designs are very much early 2000's)

Mortal Kombat 11's is fantastic though despite being locked behind alot of grind.

Also I know it was a huge complaint at the time of release, but i really dislike having to unlock characters. In the days now where alot of people want to hop into to training mode, try out all the characters, then take there potential main online we need to have all characters unlocked.

I almost burnt myself out on smash ultimate before I even got 2 days into the game
 

FluxWaveZ

Persona Central
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
10,890
  • Bad Online: Fighting games as a whole should have more competent online than they do. We're finally starting to see a gradual shift towards improvement, but it's been slow and painful. It's especially relevant nowadays.
  • Emphasis on Offense: Fighting games are way too much about the RTSD and fancy juggle combos now. Even a game that presents itself as ostensibly slower and more footsies based in Granblue Fantasy Versus is one of the most oppressive games on the market. I want a game with a plethora of universal defensive options that are actually efficient. MK11 is a modern example. Persona 4 Arena is one I always think back to for an older one that still revolved around setplay and offense.
 

Deleted member 18021

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,000
Aggressive balance patching, the focus on D I G I T A L S P O R T S, DLC, and out of place character skins.
 

J_ToSaveTheDay

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
18,844
USA
Netcode sucks in the vast majority of them. It's only got even worse feeling with the impression that it doesn't have to be as bad as it is, since we have technologies (namely well-implemented rollback netcode) that can remedy most of the issues.
 

Mik317

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,777
chasing the casual market at the expense of the diehards...and thus not really pleasing anyone.

I land somewhere in the middle of both of those groups but the fact that we still see games try to dumb down and cut features...and yet have fuck all to do in terms of single player content beyond watch a shitty movie with occasional brain dead fights while also having terrible online is baffling lol.

I think MK11 plays like shit but beyond its shitty movie, it had towers, the crypt (which was apparently not great but still) and the costumization (again not great apparently due to MICROs) and top class online. But sadly all most devs seem to take from that is shitty movie and less depth (despite MK being rather technical in some aspects) as the reasons it sells.

hell the last single player FG that I put a lot of time into was the Blazblue series because I somehow got into the batshit story and all of the different paths it had...and while I dropped off due to them dropping the dub, I remember that even getting more streamlined.

FG devs aren't th only ones but they chase trends the most but only surface level. FG won';t become big time hits just because you have a half ass story mode, nor will they become hits via making it "easier", CONTENT MY DUDES AND LOTS OF IT is the key
 

Murdamonk

Member
Oct 27, 2017
468
-Bad netcode
-MTX
-if you do go with MTX, why not go all the way... In SFV, you can buy most costumes and colors, but some are not available (only available in Fighting chances)
-Need to be crossplay
 

zoodoo

Member
Oct 26, 2017
12,750
Montreal
OP, I love guess characters. Some are bad like Negan or noctis in Tekken 7 but others are amazing like Predator in MKX, TMNT in IJ2 or Arbiter in KI.
I agree with you though on Tekken's customization. They are hideous and sometimes when watching a stream I have to try to figure out the character by its moveset cause they are unrecognizable.

Regarding your question for me it's some franchise evolving in a weird way. I don't play SF5 but from what I watch this game is way too combo ever. it's like watching KI sometimes. In a similar way Tekken being sooo juggle oriented. So many matches are about who launches who first. But I am speaking in terms of a viewer, I don't play those 2 games.
 

Foffy

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
16,395
Netcode and lack of single player content seems to be the big issues for me. Say what you will about Smash being a "real fighting game" or what have you, the games usually have features that give the game value even if you're all by yourself and that's the same series with arguably the worst netcode in the genre.
 

Hyun Sai

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,562
- Shitty online

- Shitty matchmaking and lack of real consequence for rage quitting.

- Too much emphasis on neverending combo/juggle.
 
Oct 27, 2017
12,058
What's interesting about MK11 that it doesn't actually have that many MTX...I'm sure if there was an option to let you buy all of the cosmetics outright people would do it but you can only buy a certain type of currency that works in a rotating store. More than anything they want to keep people "engaged". That said I won't deny that it's a grind to unlock stuff.
 

RM8

Member
Oct 28, 2017
7,906
JP
MK11 is pretty generous though. It's easy to see souls, hearts, koins, etc. and think you'll need to spend money - you don't. I have -tons- of skins for all my characters just by playing towers. Play the tutorial, get a skin. Play a couple of KL matches, get a skin. Play story mode, get skins. Literally watch the CPU fight against itself, get a skin. You don't even need to be good at the game, lol, it's not like SFV's fight money.
 

Gutsfree

Self-requested ban
Banned
Jun 1, 2018
966
It seems less common but I don't want to unlock characters. Especially if they're locked behind some stupidly long and bland campaign like Dragonball Fighterz. Give additional colors or skins for story stuff but if I just want to start playing, I want all the characters at the screen on launch.

MK 11 showing ping and wifi symbols but only letting me decline the match at 150 ping....which seems to really mean 300 - 500 in game.
 

FluxWaveZ

Persona Central
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
10,890
You don't even need to be good at the game, lol, it's not like SFV's fight money.
You didn't need to be good at the game to get Fight Money in SFV. And I also got all characters for free using Fight Money just by fulfilling weekly challenges, and doing stuff like fulfilling quizzes during live streams or going through Story mode. You can't do that in MK11.
 

RingRang

Alt account banned
Banned
Oct 2, 2019
2,442
Shipping without an arcade mode and with far less characters than previous entries in the series.
 

RM8

Member
Oct 28, 2017
7,906
JP
You didn't need to be good at the game to get Fight Money in SFV. And I also got all characters for free using Fight Money just by fulfilling weekly challenges, and doing stuff like fulfilling quizzes during live streams or going through Story mode. You can't do that in MK11.
Casuals are not going to win that many matches online, they're not going to unlock the entire roster with FM. And it's not only that, I myself gave in and paid for the last big update because I honestly wanted all the colours and stages. Every MK11 player is getting new stages this month.

Also it's not like I can unlock many costumes for my main (Sim) since he's not a bikini waifu.
 
Oct 28, 2017
472
All the punching.
There's enough violence in the world as is!
lowkey hoping for people to start linking me to fighting games where people don't punch each other at all.
 

FluxWaveZ

Persona Central
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
10,890
Casuals are not going to win that many matches online, they're not going to unlock the entire roster with FM. And it's not only that, I myself gave in and paid for the last big update because I honestly wanted all the colours and stages. Every MK11 player is getting new stages this month.

Also it's not like I can unlock many costumes for my main (Sim) since he's not a bikini waifu.
That's the point: when Fight Money was at its most generous (and people still complained about it), you weren't getting FM by winning online matches. That was the worst way to gain FM (that's 50 FM per win; it's not feasible for getting anything). You'd get 15k FM a week by doing things that had nothing to do with winning matches online.
 

hikarutilmitt

Member
Dec 16, 2017
11,429
It's funny how the 3 things OP mentions are in Tekken. The guest characters that aren't from other FGs is freaking weird (Negan? Noctis? wtf?), the way you unlock parts for customization is incredibly grindy and yet... those parts range from fairly nice and reasonable to look at to why does Akuma have a Tonka on his head?

SFV actually doesn't have any of these (maaaaaybe the unlockables with FM, but no more) and is all the better for it. It's not that I don't enjoy T7, but eesh.
 

RM8

Member
Oct 28, 2017
7,906
JP
That's the point: when Fight Money was at its most generous (and people still complained about it), you weren't getting FM by winning online matches. That was the worst way to gain FM (that's 50 FM per win; it's not feasible for getting anything). You'd get 15k FM a week by doing things that had nothing to do with winning matches online.
Okay, I'll agree with that, I unlocked lots of stuff that way. I still think it's easier in MK, they hand out skins at a ridiculous rate - also because there are lots of them to begin with, not only for the most popular characters. I personally prefer the way MK11 did it, it kind of sucked not having all stages in SFV for a while.

And I'll always be bitter that Sim went from having lots of cool outfits in SFIV to his SFV self ;(
 

Acidote

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,975
Pricing / monetization models.

But the one I like (one and done) would be detrimental for the community.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,397
Bad online. It's been mentioned several times but it can be so bad it bears repeating

Not exclusive to fighting games but way too common is selling season/character passes without revealing all the content first

Give us money and hope we deliver

fuck off
 

Deleted member 35071

User requested account closure
Banned
Dec 1, 2017
1,656
im not fond of every year the characters get bigger. It was cool at first...but novelty has worn off. I would be ok with them going back to sprites or whatever being much smaller
 

60fps

Banned
Dec 18, 2017
3,492
Not having proper interactive tutorials. And a checklist of condensed trial and error moves to work through with no context does not count.
 

Harken Raiser

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,992
Not being free to play. If you're going to be selling seasons of DLC characters you might as well make the base game free.
 

Pellaidh

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,179
Bad online in general. Bad netcode is the most obvious thing, but so many fighting games also lack other basic features that are common in pretty much every other modern game. Stuff like good skill based matchmaking, not fragmenting communities between several different game modes (ranked/unranked/lobbies/tournaments/...), making it easy and fast to actually get into matches (hello 30 second loading screens even when you're rematching the same player on the same stage for no reason), not matching together people on different continents, crossplay, and so on.

Not communicating with the community. You look at every GAAS game made these days, and you can see that the developers interacting with the community matters. Meanwhile, it takes Capcom 5 years to even acknowledge their netcode is bad despite the community telling them it is from day one.

Speaking of Granblue, treating the PC community like second class customers in general. Although at least companies that aren't ArcSys have gotten somewhat better in this regard.

Lack of input support. The FGC has finally slowly started acknowledging that maybe hitboxes/keyboards are good. But I don't think any console fighter actually has native keyboard support, meaning that your only option for keyboard like controls is the overpriced hitbox. Also, some games (Granblue again) don't even let you fully rebind your keys.

The pricing model. Pay 60€, then get an in game monetization model that's somehow worse than most big F2P titles. Without any of the benefits F2P models provide (like community retention through grinding for rewards). At least we stopped having to pay 60€ every few years for new versions that were essentially just balance patches with a couple of new characters.
 

Z-Brownie

Member
Nov 6, 2017
3,913
- GaaS
- cosmetic stuff that just doesnt make sense with the game or the character
- the beta feeling when it just released
- most of them are not complete games until their 2nd or 3rd year
- crossover characters that doesnt fit the games

most of my complains come from KI and SFV that i kind of played a bit, but i guess i miss buying a game that is complete and do not change 70% of character on patches just to feel "competitive". My complain goes to Destiny and Overwatch too.
 

Keits

Designer at Iron Galaxy Studios
Verified
Oct 29, 2017
124
Orlando, FL
1.) UX - Make it as quick and easy to do what I want to do in the game. If I want to play local VS, or change my controls, or play online... put as few obstacles in my way as possible.
2.) Netcode - Properly done rollbacks or bust
3.) Lighting - Too many games now are letting their stages light their characters, or de-saturating their characters to look more like they are actually in the level. This looks nice in screenshots but makes reading character position/action way more of a strain on the eyes. The characters should pop from the backgrounds.
 

RM8

Member
Oct 28, 2017
7,906
JP
I may be missing something as I'm not a Sim main but, from what I can see, he had 6 alternate costumes in USFIV and 5 in SFV.
Okay I stand corrected - I forgot about the training gear everyone got, and his mummy cosplay (I always use his story costume). I won't complain as much anymore :P I do prefer his SFIV outfits though.
 
OP
OP
ScOULaris

ScOULaris

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,629
1.) UX - Make it as quick and easy to do what I want to do in the game. If I want to play local VS, or change my controls, or play online... put as few obstacles in my way as possible.
2.) Netcode - Properly done rollbacks or bust
3.) Lighting - Too many games now are letting their stages light their characters, or de-saturating their characters to look more like they are actually in the level. This looks nice in screenshots but makes reading character position/action way more of a strain on the eyes. The characters should pop from the backgrounds.
Listen to this man. Anyone who worked on Killer Instinct (2013) gets it. It avoided all of these pitfalls so gracefully, IMO, and it has BY FAR the best online of any current fighting game both in terms of netcode and structure.
 

PKrockin

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,260
R O L L B A C K N E T C O D E

"Just go to a local" was never a solution for my bumpkin ass even before the pandemic. Asking me to play your delay-based fighting game online is like asking me to play a rhythm game with input delay. It's a horrible experience fundamentally.

All the punching.
There's enough violence in the world as is!
lowkey hoping for people to start linking me to fighting games where people don't punch each other at all.
This may a wild miss but have you played head-to-head puzzlers like Puyo Puyo or Puzzle Fighter?

 

Just Great

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,996
Not having Virtua Fighter in their title
Comeback mechanics
Emphasis on crazy frenetic dumb shit over solidness
Meters, meters, meters, on meters
Netcode
Not having placement matches in ranked to roughly separate base skill levels from the outset