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Deleted member 41931

User requested account closure
Member
Apr 10, 2018
3,744
This is by no means a new topic, but with all the noise surrounding the reviews of Days Gone and people making claims of what they mean, I thought it was important to dig back into it. Some claim that a 7 is a bad score, while others sya it's a great one. Truth is, it's neither. So what does a 7/10 or a 70/100 mean in terms of the general consensus? It means it's about as average as a game can possibly be.
oH3onC7.0.0.png

Game review scores has become inflated to the point where 7 has become the statistical average. There's a reason why this score is described as "fair" and "mixed" by Metacritic and Opencritic.
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32sdwhad

A 7 is medicore, but medicore can mean basically anything anybody wants it to be, that's why it's so ubiquitous. Assassins Unity was a technical mess at launch with excessive busy work and a weak story. Yet it has 7 because it has good graphics and fairly decent gameplay. That's all that a 7 really is. Mixed is a good way to describe it. It's neither good or bad.

But I enjoy that game, therefore it deserves even better! No actually. With the exception of some titles that have different intentions, games are a source of entertainment. Being enjoyable is the minimum, the D grade(which is conveniently a 70% in most US schools). There are of course titles that are greater than the sum of their parts at face value like Deadly Premonition, but this of course is highly subjective and typically limited to niche titles.

But how did we get here? The reason for this is due to a lot of complicated factors that has lead to the current culture. To keep it brief, some of the of reasons that might be is that it is often in the reviewers best interest to give a more positive review score. This keeps the publisher happy, ensuring a healthy relationship with their outlet which comes with many obvious benefits. It also keeps readers/viewers happy ensuring there's no backlash(unless it's a Zelda or Uncharted game since apparently giving anything below a 9 is worthy of harassment)
374808-fuckyou.jpg

There are plenty of other factors like personal bias', but this isn't quite as quantifiable.

TL;DR- A 7 isn't bad or good, its a generic and safe score thrown onto anything that's niether offensively bad or particurally impressive. It's what a 5 should be.
 

Silky

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,522
Georgia
Man what if we just eliminated the review scoring system instead of doing this shit

I have never seen so many people do the tango around a score like this before
 

Dest

Has seen more 10s than EA ever will
Coward
Jun 4, 2018
14,056
Work
Yup. 7 is the new 5. 7 is what most people consider "ok" but for some reason people are too afraid to use the scale properly and honestly it sucks because it really takes away from anything between 7-10
 

DaBuddaDa

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17
It's meaning is contained (hopefully) in the text accompanying the review. Scores and text go hand in hand: scores mean literally nothing without the proper context. That's why review aggregates are so awful at predicting the quality of products.
 

ffvorax

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,855
Review scores are bad when people just read the number and not the reason behind it... so Metacritic is the worst thing happened in the last decade.
 

breakfuss

Prophet of Truth
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
1,538
I'm sorry. What is the thesis here?

edit: nevermind, I see what you're saying. I'm not sure this is "new" or revelatory though...things have been skewed for a while.
 

PrimeBeef

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,840
7 is what 5 should be?
Lol what the fuck is that sentence?
Video game review scores keep being a complete joke.
It's why review scores are useless. Reviews should be scoreless. Forces people to actually read or watch them then form opinions rather than scan for scores close to 9(90) or above and skip the rest.
 

Raide

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
16,596
A good solid 7.5 is what I refer to as a game/movie/book that is not great but not terrible. It's a score that, if you happen to like that style, it's more like an 8 but if you don't like that style, it's a 6.

One of my close friends rates things in terms of meals. 7 is a nice burger but nothing fancy. Does the job but you won't be telling everyone about it.
 

sibarraz

Prophet of Regret - One Winged Slayer
Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
18,107
Very Good games that are not essential to play if you are into the hobby
 

data

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,722
Man what if we just eliminated the review scoring system instead of doing this shit

I have never seen so many people do the tango around a score like this before
I don't think that's a good idea. While your free to ignore it, I use it as a gauger to see how the opinion of the game since it's an aggregate. It doesn't affect my purchase behavior completely but it does have an influence. Not everyone has time to read 10 reviews just to get a basic idea since every review is subjective
 

NekoNeko

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
18,447
i see 7s as 1s basically. the reviewer didn't enjoy it but it's not broken so anything lower felt wrong to them.
 

Umbrella Carp

Banned
Jan 16, 2019
3,265
A 7/10 means wait for a sale, because games are way too expensive to average people to be jumping through hoops to play an "Okay" experience.
 
Oct 27, 2017
39,148
Scores are dumb honestly.
Review scores should change into the way Karak from ACG does. Must buy, buy, wait for sale, skip.

Some reviewers use different scales to each other. Angry Joe uses the correct scoring.

Also just because something got a 7 doesn't mean it is bad or average. Games like Dead Rising, Dying Light, Prey reboot and Wolfenstein TNO comes to mind. All of those are really great experiences.
 

EvilBoris

Prophet of Truth - HDTVtest
Verified
Oct 29, 2017
16,684
So what happened in 2010 to make the user scores turn to shit?
 

Asbsand

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
9,901
Denmark
To me a 7/10 usually means that the game has some core features, whether it be the story or the gameplay, that gives it durability, but there's so many little flaws or the game feels a little shallow next to the competition in terms of its budget or how they used the budget.

Mass Effect Andromeda is the perfect 7/10 example for me, and I respect if you think even that is generous; the game is a technically shoddy disaster to be frank, but it has a handful of quests I do remember, the core mechanics and maneuverability is probably the best the series has seen and when the graphics finally shine they really do, and the game even boasts certain VFX or technical accomplishments that I can't find in any other game on this scale or in this fashion. The galaxy map where you select where to go is test of patience and way too self-indulgent but hey, the developers actually rendered each system within the cluster in its 1:1 geomitry and you explore it live and really adds to the sense of being in space. The game is full of "somebody bothered to put this in!" but at the same time it was rushed to meet its final deadline, and the understaffed animation team slipped up completely with broken animations across the board, performance problems and a story that is just full of "wtf is happening??" moments. But it's a 7/10 because it gets so many actually impressive things done all the same.
 

CloseTalker

Member
Oct 25, 2017
30,650
It's almost as if review scores meaning such different things to different people, you start to wonder if they actually mean anything at all
 

Deleted member 10737

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
49,774
here's how i see it:
if everything was ideal, a 70 is would be perfectly fine score, and should be the score a good game gets. a 60 would be a decent score too
BUT
we would all be lying to ourselves if we actually believed that. we would be assuming that the gaming media uses the whole 1-10 scale, but they just don't. for 95% of the gaming publications and websites, the scale for big, high budget AAA games basically BEGINS at 7. unless a game is a broke/unfinished/unplayable mess, it's guaranteed to get that 7. scores like 6 or 5 are reserved for games that should be avoided at all costs.

since that's the reality for the vast majority of the gaming media, i find it quite disingenuous to ignore it and pretend 7s are given to good, above average games. for most gaming media, a 7 is really a 5 given to game that fulfill the bare minimums of not being terrible to play.

at the end of the day tho, scores are dumb and shouldn't be given THAT much thought to. an aggregate of tens of scores is a decent tool if you want to make a decision to buy something day 1, but beyond that, they don't really serve any purpose. you should read the reviews from places you respect, watch gameplay, and ask for impressions from people with similar tastes to your own to form a good opinion.
 

Radishhead

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,568
Unpopular opinion: Games are objectively better than they used to be, and in most cases a "7" is actually the correct score. Even disappointing games nowadays have impressive sound, visuals or stories to compensate for something lacking in the gameplay. Genuinely broken games (scoring 1-2) or games the mass audience would think are straight-up "bad" (so a 3-4 score) just don't really exist as much as they used to. Budgets are higher and standards are tougher.

A 7 is a safe score, but a lot of games nowadays are just safe.
 

Gelf

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,310
These averages of averages don't really tell you much because the fact is there are a large number of games that don't ever get reviewed at all. 7/10 is a decent game, most games that would score 5 and below dont even get reviewed by most major outlets.
 

Terraforce

One Winged Slayer
The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
18,917
"It's what a 5 should be"

No, it's not.
7 is what 5 should be?
Lol what the fuck is that sentence?
Video game review scores keep being a complete joke.
Yup, these pretty much.

Not sure why this is even a point of contention. "Average" is a very applicable substitute, but that doesn't mean 7 = 5. Most games being average is like having a class of students where a majority get Cs. Devalues the C to some people on a psychological level, but the C is no less worthy from an objective viewpoint. We should be ecstatic that most games average that well.
 

Deleted member 31092

User requested account closure
Banned
Nov 5, 2017
10,783
I don't know what school system you have but here a 7/10 is a pretty good vote.

Mixed is 5.5.

Bad is 4.

Broken is 2.
 
Oct 30, 2017
3,629
Considering some of my favorites games this gen were 7/10 scores, Until Dawn, Dying Light, so that seems to be a good score. I don't blindly adhere to the likes of Metacritic that much to prevent myself good games some they are only "7/10".
 
Oct 25, 2017
14,741
I don't think 7 means mediocre, I think 7 means good, it's just that "good" isn't necessarily "good enough". A 7/10 movie will take you two hours of your time, so "decent fun" can still be good enough, but to use the game in the OP, Days Gone is around 20~30 hours. Is "it's ok" really enough for you to invest 30 hours of your life into it? Unless you literally played every single "better than ok" game you were ever interested in, I don't think it is.

Basically, why would I waste 30 hours with a "good" game when I have many "great" games on my backlog, plus a bunch of other "great" games I still didn't buy?

I personally don't really use review scores to guide myself, but this makes sense for me if you do. It's basically two different answers for two slightly different questions: "Is it good?" "Do you recommend it?". A 7/10 would be "yes, it's good, but there are better ways to spend your time". Which is also true for movies, but you may not mind that when it's just 2 hours. A movie has to be exceptionally bad for me to not watch it all the way through, but good games can still lose me after a few hours. What is fun for 2 hours may not be fun for 20.
 

breakfuss

Prophet of Truth
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
1,538
Scores are dumb honestly.
Review scores should change into the way Karak from ACG does. Must buy, buy, wait for sale, skip.

Some reviewers use different scales to each other. Angry Joe uses the correct scoring.

Also just because something got a 7 doesn't mean it is bad or average. Games like Dead Rising, Dying Light, Prey reboot and Wolfenstein TNO comes to mind. All of those are really great experiences.

They're useful to an extent. The system isn't perfect. Metacritic attempts to normalize scores from outlets with wildly different methodologies but generally I think it does a good job of giving an at-a-glance consensus. Games are expensive and time consuming...I'd rather keep what we have over being forced buy things blindly.
 

Deleted member 49804

User requested account closure
Banned
Nov 21, 2018
1,868
The problem with 7 being a good game is that reviewer don't use the full 1-10 scale

How many 1/10 oder 2/10 games are there?
As you perfectly pointed out, if the average is around 7, 7 is average and not good.
Also i would like to see a median graph aswell.
 

Gloam

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,493
7 is above average 5. Average games are not bad games, 7 out of 10 is distinguished and should be treated as a bad score. It ain't so far from 8 but it's a long way from 3 or 2 or 1 or 0 which would be bad scores for bad games.
 

Toumari

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,305
England
Days Gone has more positive reviews than mixed/negative ones, therefore it's the majority consider it a good game.
 

Rodjer

Self-requested ban.
Member
Jan 28, 2018
4,808
7 coming for indie developers or small studios is ok in my book

7 coming from AAA developers is "wait for sale"