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What’s with all the Negativity with The Last of Us Part II? (No Spoilers)

SOLDIER

SOLDIER

One Winged Slayer
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
11,339
I haven't paid much attention to recent coverings or trailers, but I've been noticing a consistent amount of negativity secondhand on Twitter, this forum and other places. This tends to happen with almost every major AAA release because of console wars or other dumb shit people think is important, but the negativity feels considerably larger and louder with this game.

I'm curious, but also don't want to get spoiled either. I'm assuming a lot of the vitriol comes from leaks and such, so what exactly is wrong with this game? Near as I can tell, people are particularly upset about the grim and violent nature of it, calling it "misery porn"....but isn't that exactly what got the previous game so much praise? Did the sequel up the ante to a more unnecessary degree, or is it more of a case of bad timing (the rest of the world being pretty bleak and miserable at the moment)?

Does it have to do with the LGBTQ representation? I mean aside from the usual hate-filled gamers angry at its mere existence, does it still flub it in some other way? Again, I don't know of any spoilers, but I'm certain nothing could be a more obvious spoiler than

Ellie's girlfriend dies early on.

Feel free not to confirm/deny, but it's so blatantly obvious

Bleak/Miserable settings are something I can get behind, but also something that can be easily screwed up. For me, the biggest issue is "manufactured" misery, especially when you create a cartoonishly evil antagonist that does horrible things because "It's the apocalypse and I'm thriving in being evil, woo!". It's especially insulting when it's something like the Saviors in the Walking Dead, where they try to add in speeches of "Their people too, they're just trying to survive!" in-between moments of "I will crush your baby's head with a bat and I will enjoy every second of it."

I'm just trying to figure out what's got people more worked up than usual about this game. I'm not highly anticipating it, but it is on the maybe pile.
 

Strandr

Member
Oct 12, 2019
540
The long and short is that major plot points released months ago that are very divisive and also have the tendency to be quite charged in current culture. People are knee jerk reacting one way or another falling to extremes of the spectrum
 
BDS

BDS

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
13,845
The alt-right has turned the game into the next culture war battlefield over a series of out-of-context spoiler videos and fake rumors about various characters' sexualities and gender identities.
 
Mr.Flufferson

Mr.Flufferson

Member
Oct 25, 2017
214
All I know is that a lot of the usual crowd were complaining that the game is "sjw" or something ever since the leaks happened. Although other people have other reasons of course.
 
Foxnull

Foxnull

Alt-Account
Banned
May 30, 2019
1,651
BDS said:
The alt-right has turned the game into the next culture war battlefield over a series of out-of-context spoiler videos and fake rumors about various characters' sexualities and gender identities.
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That's not true at all, though. It has to do with the spoilers, yes, but the rest isn't true.
 
AllChan7

AllChan7

Tries to be a positive role model
Member
Apr 30, 2019
3,670
Basically the gamergate crowd is bent out of shape over LGBT and female characters having important roles in the game and feel oppressed about it.

So anyone praising the game is seen as a shill and paid reviewer who's just another mouth piece of woke stream media

And to them, the few negative reviews are the true and honest takes untainted by SJW propaganda.

Basically most haters are mental and in dire need of therapy.
 

Deleted member 32135

User requested account closure
Banned
Nov 9, 2017
1,555
Between this stupid "culture war" and how little the reviews talked about the gameplay aspects of this game and how much about "the experience" with diverse movie and book analogies... I feel what I find the most important aspects of the game havent been talked enough.

I mean, I needed to ask in the review thread if anyone knew if they had included gyro aiming because I couldn't find a review mention such a basic aspect (they didn't... don't ask me why, I am angry).
 
AllChan7

AllChan7

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Apr 30, 2019
3,670
Foxnull said:
That's not true at all, though. It has to do with the spoilers, yes, but the rest isn't true.
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The rest is true. Majority of people lifting up the negative reviews are the alt right crowd. These people believe Anita Sarkeesian was heavily involved in TLoU2 and that Neil is an SJW cuck who pushed out Amy to put more LGBT themes in Uncharted 4. They also believe 70% of Naughty Dog devs quit after Uncharted 4 because they didn't like the progressive themes in TLoU2. None of this is true btw but they desperately need it to be ti validate their existence
 

Sixfortyfive

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
4,615
Atlanta
Everything about the discourse surrounding this game gives me the feeling that it's going to be one of those games that makes a huge splash and gets a ton of hype and critical praise on release, only for public opinion to boomerang on it rather quickly because it's almost explicitly designed to be divisive in the first place. And I think most people are conscious of this on some level.
 
AllChan7

AllChan7

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Apr 30, 2019
3,670
linkwashere said:
I don't know but I want to play the game this Friday. Between this nonsensical "culture war" and how little the reviews talked about the gameplay aspects of this game and how much about "the experience" with diverse movie analogies... I feel what I find the most important aspects of the game havent been talked enough.

I mean, I needed to ask in the OT if they had included gyro aiming because I couldn't find a review mention it (they didn't... Don't ask me why).
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Plenty of reviews discuss gameplay
 
Druffmaul

Druffmaul

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account.
Banned
Oct 24, 2018
2,228
BDS said:
The alt-right has turned the game into the next culture war battlefield over a series of out-of-context spoiler videos and fake rumors about various characters' sexualities and gender identities.
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This. All the way back in 2013, Neil Druckmann openly admitted that Feminist Frequency was a big influence on the original TLOU1. The current "culture war" hadn't really started yet, so while it wasn't a secret, it didn't get that much traction at the time. In more recent years, the usual suspects have glommed onto it and were obviously just waiting for any excuse to give them a "legitimate" reason to shit on TLOU2. The plot leaks were exactly what they were looking for. No doubt there would have been plenty of vocally butthurt fanboys regardless, but the toxic GG types are the ones doing everything they can to blow it up.
 
Crossing Eden

Crossing Eden

Member
Oct 26, 2017
53,380
Foxnull said:
That's not true at all, though. It has to do with the spoilers, yes, but the rest isn't true.
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It's absolutely true. It all started when this was shown at e3:
maxresdefault.jpg

^
We all know which crowd was riled up when this was shown at e3. And ever since that moment, there have been attempts to tear the game down.

Then, when leaked videos came out, specifically a 90 min video that contained 33 minutes of cutscenes and 30 minutes of gameplay, all out of order and without context and buildup. Users from reddit and 4chan quickly spread a "summary" of the game's plot filled with made up plot points, including false information about the identity of certain characters, as well as a faked description of the ending. Now, this isn't even the first time such a thing happened with this title specifically. "Leaked summaries" originating from the same places were pitch perfectly written to rile up the alt right by providing fake information. Specifically, that one of the factions is a homophobic christian cult

The biggest tragedy, aside from the game developers receiving death threats over fake spoilers and having some parts of their game spoiled before the audience could fully experience it, and trust me, they've done a HELL OF A JOB with not spoiling the game in ways that I won't talk about, was seeing how willing people were to believe the fake spoilers in spite of the source. Even worse, was how willingly people believed that it all happened because of a disgruntled employee because ONE twitter account, with no history or following, stated "reports are saying that it was a disgruntled employee," and thus used the leaks as an opportunity to concern troll not because of genuine concern over ND's game development practices, but because they didn't like the plot beats in a fake summary of a story.
 
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Fat4all

Fat4all

Woke up, got a money tag, swears a lot
Member
Oct 25, 2017
92,905
here
linkwashere said:
Between this nonsensical "culture war" and how little the reviews talked about the gameplay aspects of this game and how much about "the experience" with diverse movie and book analogies... I feel what I find the most important aspects of the game havent been talked enough.

I mean, I needed to ask in the review thread if anyone knew if they had included gyro aiming because I couldn't find a review mention such a basic aspect (they didn't... don't ask me why, I am angry).
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i've seen plenty of reviews talk about the gameplay, including the huge improvements to the stealth mechanics that worked well but were kinda basic in the first game
 
Comic Obsessed

Comic Obsessed

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,792
Peru
The biggest criticisms I've heard is that the gameplay hasn't progressed that much from the original while the pacing and characters are much worse.

I don't mind the gameplay being the same since I was cool with the original (aside from some annoying issues) but the other stuff could be a problem since I really loved everything concerning the story in the first one.
 
Pancracio17

Pancracio17

▲ Legend ▲
Avenger
Oct 29, 2017
18,786
something about niel making people upset, the news about crunch, and wierd gamers being upset at buff women and lesbians.

I think.
 
Strangelove_77

Strangelove_77

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
13,392
I asked the same thing in the review thread. The negativity doesn't align with the review scores at all.
And it feels weird to blame it on the alt right and it's sexism and homophobia either, considering there's a somewhat hefty amount of people who dislike the game based on spoilers and Era doesn't tolerate the alt right.
 
Uzupedro

Uzupedro

Banned
May 16, 2020
12,234
Rio de Janeiro
linkwashere said:
Between this nonsensical "culture war" and how little the reviews talked about the gameplay aspects of this game and how much about "the experience" with diverse movie and book analogies... I feel what I find the most important aspects of the game havent been talked enough.

I mean, I needed to ask in the review thread if anyone knew if they had included gyro aiming because I couldn't find a review mention such a basic aspect (they didn't... don't ask me why, I am angry).
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Gameplay it's the most talked aspect of the game in the reviews(at least the ones I saw), reviewers avoided talking about stuff outside gameplay mechanics because of the embargo(and even in this aspect there is stuff they couldn't talk about). Altought I agree that they could be more open in general.
 
Yog-Sothoth

Yog-Sothoth

Member
Oct 1, 2018
3,225
Comic Obsessed said:
The biggest criticisms I've heard is that the gameplay hasn't progressed that much from the original and the pacing and characters are much worse.

I don't mind the gameplay being the same since I was cool with the original (aside from some annoying issues) but the other stuff could be a problem since I really loved everything concerning the story in the first one.
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Depends on what reviews you read. Some others compare the gameplay to MGSV. Only one way to find out though.
 
Crossing Eden

Crossing Eden

Member
Oct 26, 2017
53,380
linkwashere said:
Between this stupid "culture war" and how little the reviews talked about the gameplay aspects of this game and how much about "the experience" with diverse movie and book analogies... I feel what I find the most important aspects of the game havent been talked enough.

I mean, I needed to ask in the review thread if anyone knew if they had included gyro aiming because I couldn't find a review mention such a basic aspect (they didn't... don't ask me why, I am angry).
Click to expand...
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I genuinely can't recall any review that doesn't rave about the gameplay.
 
Crossing Eden

Crossing Eden

Member
Oct 26, 2017
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Siggy-P

Siggy-P

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Mar 18, 2018
11,865
Mostly targeted alt-right backlash.

But also partly back lash against a specific twist.

The rest was fake leaks purposely making the game look worse.

I feel into the last bit but I grew up.
 
Cess007

Cess007

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,116
B.C., Mexico
I would like to blame the leaks.

But I remember people on the internet writing horrifying things about Ellie's girlfriend when she was shown the first time.
 
Annabel

Annabel

Member
Mar 22, 2019
1,677
Everything's been kind of a mess.

Alt right idiots think the game is trying to be "woke" for "sjw points", then you have the couple negative reviews that feel the game is a bit full of itself and after that there's a couple tweets from some critics that generated a hefty amount of discourse.
 
EricTheGamerman

EricTheGamerman

Banned
Aug 12, 2019
5,159
Treating criticism for the game as "just the work of alt right douchebags" serves to benefit no one. There is undoubtedly a faction of alt right people who have decided to make this a game they're going to use to highlight their nonsensical values with for obvious reason...

But they also aren't the only ones criticizing the title and dismissing criticism as such drowns out legitimate complaints and concerns people have with The Last of Us Part II. The excessive violence, tone of the game, and how it compares to the original title have all been brought up by different review outlets as issues with the game, and people have been criticizing the game's approach to violence for years since we saw the first trailers. Generally speaking, according to reviewers and leaks, the "cycle of violence" is a core theme of this game, and especially in this moment, that's not necessarily what people are looking for and in fact we have tons of people very actively fighting against continued cycles of human violence in the form of protest against police brutality and for causes such as Black Lives Matter. Obviously, the game was never going to be able to predict a cultural moment like that, but a game that centers so heavily on violence as one of its core building blocks is also just what some people are not looking for right now as well.
 

Deleted member 52442

User requested account closure
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Jan 24, 2019
10,774
BDS said:
The alt-right has turned the game into the next culture war battlefield over a series of out-of-context spoiler videos and fake rumors about various characters' sexualities and gender identities.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...


it's this plus they make bold/controversial story decisions


so it's just a powder keg
 
goodretina

goodretina

Member
Dec 30, 2018
1,705
It's basically impossible to discuss this without spoilers, but on this forum it's mainly because of plot points and game design decisions from the leaks. Some people are also put off by the violence and the negative tone of the game. For the most part the spoiler thread was good discussion. I got spoiled early before it was widespread knowledge that there were leaks.

Outside of this forum there is a bunch of anger based on false rumors about a character being trans, and of course some misogyny and homophobia.

My advice is that if you have made it this far without getting spoiled, then just stop reading anything about the game now. Don't search for it on websites. You have almost made it!
 
Cactuar

Cactuar

Banned
Nov 30, 2018
5,878
If by negativity you mean the rants of concern trolls, alt-righters and console warriors then yes, there is negativity. But then again, if it's angering that crowd it's all positivity to me

;-)
 
nib95

nib95

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Oct 28, 2017
18,498
BDS said:
The alt-right has turned the game into the next culture war battlefield over a series of out-of-context spoiler videos and fake rumors about various characters' sexualities and gender identities.
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Predominantly this.

P.S there aren't actually any spoilers in this image.

20200507073321.jpg
 
Trigonometrize

Trigonometrize

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,143
Combination of not liking Uncharted 4 and not liking the comments the creative leads have made about their intentions with the game about sum it up for me.
 
Damn Silly

Damn Silly

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Oct 25, 2017
7,194
There seems to be a few reasons. The obviously dumbest one is from dipshits who dislike it just because of LGBT representation.

But there is other, more legitimate reasons, like a few well-regard critics' criticism and the culture of crunch at Naughty Dog
 
GazRB

GazRB

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,798
linkwashere said:
Between this stupid "culture war" and how little the reviews talked about the gameplay aspects of this game and how much about "the experience" with diverse movie and book analogies... I feel what I find the most important aspects of the game havent been talked enough.

I mean, I needed to ask in the review thread if anyone knew if they had included gyro aiming because I couldn't find a review mention such a basic aspect (they didn't... don't ask me why, I am angry).
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No one really cares about gyro aiming though? That's like wondering if it uses the touchpad lol.
 
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