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We've Reached Peak Nazi - Jonathan Pie
- Thread starter Sal
- Start date
I never said left and right are the same (though the implication that one has even suggested this is a popular point of attack on here, from what I've seen). I said they largely vote as monoliths, but neither is a monolith.
what planet have you been on that republican legislators aren't closely allied with trump
this isn't some vague ephemeral link, they're subservient to his every whim
I mean sure the left can't agree on anything while the right will disagree on whether to shoot immigrants or just give them smallpox while still supporting the most cruel method but sure they're both equally not monolith.
With a post like this, I just can't take you seriously, so I'll pass on continuing this discussion. Enjoy your time in this thread.
Sure, sure.
In the mean time Kavanaugh was still appointed despite the not monolith right being conflicted about it.
Like seriously if you could give example on the not monolith behavior, it sure would be interesting to discuss over your vague BS generalities you try to pass off as arguments.
It's ok you can keep the high ground you like so much, if we ever spar with lightsabers that might be useful.
I just edited them into my last reply after seeing your edit. Thought I'd be faster about it lol.
User banned (3 days): Disingenuous arguing. Ignores Trump's repeated and documented calls for political violence.
I can right now, on this board, call Donald Trump a flaming pile of shit that I can't wait to see out of office so he can be prosecuted and hopefully jailed for all sorts of corrupt bullshit, without fear.
His economic policies are aimed at strongarming for the sake of achieving free trade. He's certainly a capitalist with a tinge of protectionism.
Fortunately our amazing constitution basically prevents a single party state, so we can forgo that aspect of fascism.
He's not a supporter of political violence.
The immigration rhetoric certainly has tinges of it, but the actual policies are way more complex to call one thing or another.
I'm a market socialist with a degree in political economy (aka marxism), I certainly get the difference between Marx and Stalin. The poster I replied to made claims about fascism to equate nazism, which are similar but different, just like Marxism and Stalinism. That's why I picked Stalinism isntead of Trotskyism ;)
I think the direct correlation between alt-right and Neo-Nazis is incredibly nuanced, due to the overuse and overlabeling of both terms. But until I see actual Fascist tenents being proposed as law, it's hard for me to label the guy as such. Trump is a giant piece of shit, but I really don't think he's a Nazi or even a Nazi supporter. I don't really think he's a Fascist either.
I can't stand Jonathan Pie but he isn't exactly wrong on this. In a heavily fractured political environment, people are quick to throw labels at each other to dismiss any discussion. With that said, the current environment has certainly warranted the more frequent use of the term at times, without question.
It's great because you're not the press and you kind of know it, right?
You can't say he's clean in that regard after spending literal years in office delegitimizing the press.
And not a supporter of political violence?
The guy that retweeted this?
After his 2nd most popular slogan was literal call for jailing his direct opponent?
Donald Trump doesn't support political violence might be the funniest fucking thing I have ever read on this forum
Republicans have made it their life mission to suppress votes for any party that isn't them, effective working towards a single party state. Your constitution doesn't mean shit.
Did you miss all the times he's either refused to condemn violence against protests, or trots out the "Both sides are bad" line?
I see you were in the Jordan Peterson thread running defense for him as well, so don't act like we don't know what you're trying to do here.
I really think it's rhetoric and feeding his base of idiots. I think he's a corrupt piece of shit, but he's missing too many of the key ingredients of what makes a fascist a fascist.
It's not a word that can be used interchangeably with totalitarian/authoritarian.
:P
In seriousness though, this is one of the areas that I think clear definitions and appropriate use of terms is super important. Both from the perspective of being able to have rational discourse without vilifying people we disagree with, as well as being able to appropriately point out and immediately dismantle and isolate the evils of Fascism and Nazism whenever they appear. Muddying the waters hurts everyone.
It's not a word that can be used interchangeably with totalitarian/authoritarian.
I CANT STOP MYSELF
:P
In seriousness though, this is one of the areas that I think clear definitions and appropriate use of terms is super important. Both from the perspective of being able to have rational discourse without vilifying people we disagree with, as well as being able to appropriately point out and immediately dismantle and isolate the evils of Fascism and Nazism whenever they appear. Muddying the waters hurts everyone.
*edit* Apologies for double post.
I disagree with most of Jordan Peterson's stances, I just find the disconnect from what I've watched of him to the perceived stances and positions fascinating.
Please do not label me as such. I'm a socialist that went to The Evergreen State College, full disclosure. He thinks I want to kill everyone like Mao and Stalin.
LOL, I was going to return to that thread, but the level of insanity in there was too much.
I disagree with most of Jordan Peterson's stances, I just find the disconnect from what I've watched of him to the perceived stances and positions fascinating.
Please do not label me as such. I'm a socialist that went to The Evergreen State College, full disclosure. He thinks I want to kill everyone like Mao and Stalin.
I kind of disagree here.
Considering the context is always important.
You cannot have an informal conversation like we have now without using somewhat loose definitions.
(although it's certainly arguable that Trump exhibits traits unique to fascists but that's not the point here).
If we were doing anything like writing a paper, an article, an essay (vid or not) or even debating, the argument for strict definition might work.
As it is, it only serves to muddy conversation into pointless debates about forms.
I'd even argue that it's rather stupid too as actual neonazis are doing less damages to the countries they're in compared to the crypto fascists enabling them.
Be it the tories in UK, the GOP in the US or that particular vocal fringe of yellow vests in France.
Again Flake has been a bigger disgrace than Spencer and did far more damage.
Calling him "'"'moderate'"'" ain't gonna change that he did a heck of a lot more to steer the US toward dictatorship than swastika branded neonazis (and no, not in a Chamberlain way).
here are your receipts - dude is and remains trash
What you can and can't say on this forum isn't relevant. Are you saying a fascist isn't a fascist until he actually becomes a dictator? Trump has moved to silence critics, and advocated for violence against critics and political rivals/enemies. His attacks on the free press have been consistent and daily.
That's fairly convincing. Of course he is going to have more power than neonazis which are appropriately removed from any real impact or political power. But, on a technicality, every single presidential administration expands presidential power.
He's more egregious than most, so Ill cede this one.
I pity you for your inability to actually engage and assume what someone is saying is what they mean. I can't fathom having to live in such a suspicious and paranoid world on a daily basis.
Seems pretty accurate, I'm not sure what part of it rustled the jimmies of most posters here.
Would it help to point out that the video was made due to right wing protesters in London hounding a female mp on her way to parliament and calling her a Nazi as she's in favour of a second brexit vote?
Would it help to point out that the video was made due to right wing protesters in London hounding a female mp on her way to parliament and calling her a Nazi as she's in favour of a second brexit vote?
Yeah he started making shitty strawmen arguments about the CK thing and it was really really bad.
Regardless, making a video on how some internet people overuse the word Nazi is really fruitless, how about you spend more time going after the people that are being labelled Nazis and less time tone policing anonymous users on message boards.
That's probably a generous assumption tbh. Your average German was probably (socially) far, far right of what we'd consider "alt right" today.
TBH I doubt I'd be super comfortable listening to my own 1930s relatives talk about race or religion either.
Do you not remember his calls for violence on the campaign trail?
Do you not remember whenever the right committed violence he harped on "both sides"?
You don't remember, or...
He's more or less right about what is or isn't nazism, and I agree the word does get used far too liberally now.
The title, of course, is wrong. Peak nazism was some eighty odd years ago. But I imagine that's sensationalism.
The title, of course, is wrong. Peak nazism was some eighty odd years ago. But I imagine that's sensationalism.
"They don't have concentration camps yet so they aren't nazis"
Yes, this is an actual argument in 2019.
Weirdly defending bigots and saying "Tut tut, I don't personally want to consider how bad some people are, so please change how you speak about them." is a lot easier than actually trying to stop bigotry I guess.
iunno, kinda look like nazis to me.
Nah, dude. He's just saying he fingerbanged a chick thiiiiiiiiis tall. The gentleman behind him is giving a child a high five. Liberals - Sex negative and anti-family. Shame.
Holocaust Survivors Recall Exact Day Holocaust Started Right Out Of The Blue
The term Nazi is sometimes misapplied, yes.
But there are also plenty of examples today where the term is completely fucking apt.
I am infinitely more willing to forgive the people who use the term Nazi too readily over the people who seem to have a compulsive reflex to blanket condemn/ridicule the use of the word. Can't help but think those apologists will keep saying "oh stop being hysterical and calling people Nazis" right up until the point where we find ourselves digging through the ashes of the next Auschwitz-Birkenau.
We study history for a reason, and the people who keep hand-waving away clear warning signs of history repeating (and for little more than semantic reasons) are very, very dangerous people, regardless of their intentions.
But there are also plenty of examples today where the term is completely fucking apt.
I am infinitely more willing to forgive the people who use the term Nazi too readily over the people who seem to have a compulsive reflex to blanket condemn/ridicule the use of the word. Can't help but think those apologists will keep saying "oh stop being hysterical and calling people Nazis" right up until the point where we find ourselves digging through the ashes of the next Auschwitz-Birkenau.
We study history for a reason, and the people who keep hand-waving away clear warning signs of history repeating (and for little more than semantic reasons) are very, very dangerous people, regardless of their intentions.
Yeah I figured this was the context of the video. I know of quite a few small-town Yorkshire right wing shitheads who have been using the term nazi to refer to anyone who they think is "anti Britain", either by being pro EU or whatever other reason. It's amazing to think how meaningless the word has become.
Speak like a Nazi and support white supremacy and supremacists & their policies and I'm gonna call you a Nazi.
This alt-right shit is so fucking annoying because it's ultimately a successful rebranding of Nazism. Maybe they don't yet quite kill Others in the same scale as Nazis eventually did but we've got ICE gathering immigrants no matter if they are legal or not, leftist politicians killed on the streets of London, immigrant/refugee children gathered and even dying at what are essentially consentration camps etc. that these people fully support.
This alt-right shit is so fucking annoying because it's ultimately a successful rebranding of Nazism. Maybe they don't yet quite kill Others in the same scale as Nazis eventually did but we've got ICE gathering immigrants no matter if they are legal or not, leftist politicians killed on the streets of London, immigrant/refugee children gathered and even dying at what are essentially consentration camps etc. that these people fully support.
That's my take on it too - I've heard people round these parts refer to the EU as "a Nazi conspiracy" ("They conquered Europe without ever firing a shot!"), and Angela Merkel labelled the "the second coming of Hitler".
But, y'know, screw context I guess?
There's a guy who's a huge BNP supporter living in a local village. He was at the pub recently making comparisons between Merkel and Hitler, exactly as you said, and saying that we should basically get back to the good old days of "scalping Nazis" and I think referencing inglorious basterds. Herein lies the massive issue with the use of the word Nazi in the modern political climate.
There will always be ignorant idiots who miss the point entirely. I don't think that's unique to today's society.
There's such a massive divide between rural and urban areas, between the big cities and the small towns, between North and South, that boiling it down to some black and white "Left vs Right" conflict is hopelessly naive - and plays right into the hands of Actual Fascists.
Yup. After watching some alt right livestreams from the Unite the Right rally, I learned 2 things.
1. Neo-Nazis are distinct from other far right groups, and should be distinguished as such.
2. There are a fuckton more neo-nazis than I thought there were.
I found his first few videos pretty entertaining but he's become an irresponsible centrist echo chamber with a boring shtick.
He's a very angry version of that Boogie "maybe we'll meet in the middle" .gif, and at a chaotic time like this, I can't stand for that nonsense.
He's a very angry version of that Boogie "maybe we'll meet in the middle" .gif, and at a chaotic time like this, I can't stand for that nonsense.