Getting share play perks for PS2 games was a godsend.
Online play being added to EVERY PS2 game was the best. Twisted Metal Black cooperative online.
Online play being added to EVERY PS2 game was the best. Twisted Metal Black cooperative online.
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Were the Remastered PlayStation 2 Classics on PlayStation 4 a missed opportunity?
- Thread starter Deleted member 30151
- Start date
Nintendoes (kinda?) what Sony won't O_O? But yeah, I'm shocked that I went to a Target at 3 am for an NES classic, a system I have no real nostalgia for (I started playing games with SNES), but I had absolutely zero interest in the PSOne classic. If you had told me that these two hypothetical products would be coming out a few years ago and this would be the outcome, I likely would have laughed.
Sony dropped the ball from the start, here - from the beginning when they announced an incomplete list of games, something just didn't feel quite right to me. FF7 would have been the big draw for me, but I already bought a copy for PS4. While the lack of Spyro and Crash is understandable, given the focus on the remastered collections, it still felt odd to me to not see these titles here. And the timing with Symphony of the Night...just...ugh. For the most part, this system was a "classic" in name only, to me, which is a crying shame.
Oversight on my part - whoops, sorry! I could have sworn Shadow Complex was a PS2 game...I guess my memory isn't what it used to be. I was indeed talking about Shadow Complex Remastered which is not actually a PS2 classic. I actually went to wikipedia and was shocked at just how small the list of PS2 classics is. The other PS2 classics that I do in fact actually own (and which are indeed PS2 classics) are: Wild Arms 3, Jak and Daxter (Precursor Legacy), and Psychonauts.
We were soooo close getting GTA VCS but I think it's cancelled at this point. Implementing trophies took too long. They had only one guy on it as far as I remember reading somewhere.
It's a quite a Sony-thing to do something half-arsed, instead of churning out a bunch of stuff quality content first and winding stuff down if it doesn't work out. Only very few (sometimes odd) games have been released every couple of weeks which just wasn't enough. Sony could've easily put more of their good first party stuff up. I imagined something like Killzone, GoW, SOCOM, Sly Cooper, Ape Escape, The Getaway etc. right after the GTA trilogy was released.
They always hope their customers to buy stuff and only then show some incentive which isn't the way to go. It's impossible to tell how much of a money sink this was (I imagine it was still profitable) but the whole PS2 to PS4 program was one big mishandled disappointment.
It's a quite a Sony-thing to do something half-arsed, instead of churning out a bunch of stuff quality content first and winding stuff down if it doesn't work out. Only very few (sometimes odd) games have been released every couple of weeks which just wasn't enough. Sony could've easily put more of their good first party stuff up. I imagined something like Killzone, GoW, SOCOM, Sly Cooper, Ape Escape, The Getaway etc. right after the GTA trilogy was released.
They always hope their customers to buy stuff and only then show some incentive which isn't the way to go. It's impossible to tell how much of a money sink this was (I imagine it was still profitable) but the whole PS2 to PS4 program was one big mishandled disappointment.
I mean obviously it's not perfect, but I've spent a lot of time playing PS2 games and have played series I hadn't played (or at least much of) back then. There's just something about PS2 games that's lacking in modern games but I don't know what it is (I don't think it's nostalgia).
Too pricey and nowhere near as frequent as the PS1 releases on PS3 (or even PS2 games on PS3). Sony really dropped the ball this gen. Hope PS5 fares better and they look at what Microsoft are doing and follow that model with their legacy games.
Sony is - repeat- fucking absolute clown shoes with how its treating two of the absolute best game libraries. It's like they actively go out of their way to be assholes considering BC. They're incompetent beyond measure.
Unquestionably a missed opportunity.
They should have carried over all PSN purchases.
They should have supported PS1 games.
They should have had a big library with all the classics that they could have feasibly got with some effort.
They should have put a similar amount of effort into it as MS did with their BC program.
They should have carried over all PSN purchases.
They should have supported PS1 games.
They should have had a big library with all the classics that they could have feasibly got with some effort.
They should have put a similar amount of effort into it as MS did with their BC program.
The cross compatiblity of PS1 games from PSP to PS3 to Vita really gave me a positive view of Sony's support of classic games and purchases going forward. For them to completely dump that with PS4 and just have this subpar effort has soured me on the entire brand. I refused to pay a penny for any of these titles, they should have continued what they did previously with and carried across existing purchases of PS2 games to PS4.
Same. At this point I'm thankful that the platform that makes the most effort with BC is also the one that's missing any workable PC emulators still. it would be an even more dire situation if things were the other way round.
Sony's approach to backwards compat this gen is just disappointing.
The inability to carry over PS1 and PS2 classics you bought on PS3 is already bad enough indeed, but the overwhelming reliance on trophies can be seen as a contributing factor to the overall state of the PS2 on PS4 program. It's a shame really.
The inability to carry over PS1 and PS2 classics you bought on PS3 is already bad enough indeed, but the overwhelming reliance on trophies can be seen as a contributing factor to the overall state of the PS2 on PS4 program. It's a shame really.
When they started it, I was excited that we'd get stuff like a worldwide release for Siren 2 (my favorite in the series but only available in English in EU) and a version of Suikoden 5 with better load times. Alas, it was not to be.
Seems like a problem of it being too much effort and not enough demand. I really wish they just backtracked on it and just uploaded them straight to PSN like with the PS3 without trophies or any of the other upgrades. The upgrades were definitely nice, but clearly not worth being such a barrier that only a few dozen games managed to make the list. There's so many obvious games that never made it over which sucks.
The worst part about this is how they just silently shut it down. We haven't had a new game in a year or two and they just brushed it under the rug smh
The worst part about this is how they just silently shut it down. We haven't had a new game in a year or two and they just brushed it under the rug smh
They've shouldn't have made the trophies mandatory, as others I'm sure have said I think that deterred some publishers from putting in the effort of putting out their games again. It might've worked if they had "enhanced" versions of the games with trophies that they could've charged a couple of extra bucks for.
Some of you guys are really something else. GTA VCS doesn't work on their emulator. It has serious framerate issues. That's probably why it never showed up. But sure, blame the trophies.
It's not an either/or scenario though. Sony is a multi-billion dollar company. Part of their system strategy should be to incorporate the last 25 years of their history so that it's readily accessible for longtime fans and newcomers interested in the hobby. They can still port PS2 titles and support Guerrila Games and whoever else, especially with how they dominated the sales-charts this generation.
We do have one new one but it's tied to AC7 preorders. AC5 The Unsung War is coming but like over a year since the last ones.
At least that's something I guess lol. And I guess that's another inherent issue with PS2 ports. A lot of devs would rather slap a new addition or two and release their games as "HD remasters" or "X Collection" outside of the Sony program anyway. Square Enix, Konami, and Capcom have done plenty.
I picked the third poll option, i really just want more games added. But in the end, like so many things, it is Sony snatching victory from the claws of defeat. Its frustrating because on the gaming front they are really good, but pretty much every other initiative they have tried sideways to direct PS4 games and the hardware have been disappointments
From the developers' side, this was almost certainly the biggest obstacle. I'm sure a lot of publishers wanted to bring their PS2 games over to PS4, but Sony's requirement to implement trophies surely added a significant burden, and developers just felt it wasn't worth the investment in time and money.
Without trophies, they probably would have sold a lot better, because then developers could have released games more quickly and easily. This would have unquestionably provided a much larger catalog of PS2 games on the PS4.
I'm not opposed to the inclusion of trophies, but it truly should have been optional. Making it mandatory is what repelled developers on the concept.
Notice that Microsoft does not require achievements to be patched into original Xbox games that are released on Xbox One.
The biggest obstacle for consumers was pricing. As others have mentioned, Sony should have followed Microsoft's example, and allowed owners of either the PS2 physical discs or the downloadable "PS2 Classics for PS3" to carry those same games over to PS4 at no extra cost. Instead, "PS2 Classics for PS4" were almost always priced higher than the same games on PS3, and the need to repurchase those games was an outright insult to loyal PS4 fans.
It is faster to release them without trophies, but I would like to see some back up for the statement that they sold better. Sony was able to see the numbers on the ps3, and all the noteworthy ps2 games they had got a quick upgrade with trophies instead of a quicker release without. Behavior seems to indicate trophies were necessary to make them stand a chance. As for optionally adding trophies, that is just stupid. One of the best things they did was mandating the system. Something where developers can do whatever will never be supported. Straightforward rules are better, like Microsoft just saying everything gets a 1000 points
i just want to play all games off disc, like the gens before the PS4. just make everything codefree. next best thing are remasters with trophies.
i don't care about iso dumps most of the time. trophies are the minimum with screen filters when necessary.
i don't care about iso dumps most of the time. trophies are the minimum with screen filters when necessary.
I'd say it was a missed opportunity to not release them in Japan.
I mean, come on, at least release Siren.
That being said, I'm not sure that going back to the PS2's style of things would make it so much easier. Though it may appear large, the PS2 library on PS3 is relatively small even on the Japanese line up relative to the PS1 titles, and the games ... don't seem to run very well? After a certain point Silent Hill 4 was broken for me, and I had to quit the game (it was playable, but all of the sound was off). Haunting Ground seemed off. I got the impression that emulation for the PS2 was much more difficult than the PS1, creating a need for extensive testing, trouble shooting, etc. that they apparently weren't willing to do.
I mean, come on, at least release Siren.
That being said, I'm not sure that going back to the PS2's style of things would make it so much easier. Though it may appear large, the PS2 library on PS3 is relatively small even on the Japanese line up relative to the PS1 titles, and the games ... don't seem to run very well? After a certain point Silent Hill 4 was broken for me, and I had to quit the game (it was playable, but all of the sound was off). Haunting Ground seemed off. I got the impression that emulation for the PS2 was much more difficult than the PS1, creating a need for extensive testing, trouble shooting, etc. that they apparently weren't willing to do.
Probably an issue with the regional branches of SIE not talking. Being decentralized has it's disadvantages too.
I'm pretty sick of how they handle BC. They need to get their shit together for their next console or they aren't getting all of my console money thats for sure. I didn't need an xbox this gen, I have a strange feeling that might change with the next considering what MS has been doing.
Since MS is doing a excellent work with X360 BC, their OG XB efforts are still lame like Sony with PS2.
Sony always messes up this stuff.
They should get rid of trophies and just release the games consistently.
Trophies are useless and I imagine that people want to play games for what they were and not just because of stupid trophies.
They should get rid of trophies and just release the games consistently.
Trophies are useless and I imagine that people want to play games for what they were and not just because of stupid trophies.
I have no problems with my OG Xbox titles.
Notice that I said they probably would have sold better without trophies. We'll never know if they actually would have sold better, because they never made the effort.
I can only speculate that lifting the burden of requiring trophies would have brought more developers on board with the initiative. This would have likely led to more PS2 games being brought over, and at lower prices.
Many downloadable PS2 games on PS3 that sold for $9.99 had their prices raised to $14.99 when the same games were brought to PS4. This price increase was obviously meant to offset the added investments in time, manpower, and resources because Sony forced developers into a laborious 2-3 month process of programming and testing trophies.
They didn't get a "quick" upgrade. As Sony themselves has stated, it takes 2-3 months to add trophies to a PS2 game.
Evidently, their strategy didn't work, as (in the US) they released about 100 downloadable PS2 games for PS3, but only about half of that for PS4, and have almost completely ceased releasing any new downloadable PS2 games over the last year.
As I and others in this thread have pointed out, mandating the system didn't work. Sony should have revised the program and allowed developers to release PS2 games on PS4 without trophies. Then, we could truly see if this would have affected consumer interest and sales. Let the chips fall where they may.
AFAIK Sony did most of the work, including adding trophies. The publishers main job would be rights clearance - digging up all the paperwork for the game and verifying that they have the rights to put it on a new platform. Stuff like middleware, voice acting, licensed brands or music, etc., can be tied to one specific retail release, or limited to a certain time period, and can require an additional payment or a fully renegotiated contract before it can be used again. For the Silent Hill HD collection for example, they had to track down all of the original cast members and get their permission to reuse their performances, and only managed to do so for SH2, leaving SH3 with just the new voice track.
And really, if trophies were such a bother they could just leave out the Platinum and/or do the Terminator: Salvation thing and just have a dozen or so gold trophies based on simple, easily testable requirements like level progression. Yet they don't. Even as the pace of releases slowed down, someone is still putting in the work giving them full trophy sets covering all sorts of criteria even though there is absolutely no need to do so. Using trophies as a scapegoat makes no sense really.
Funny how of the big three, it's the one with the smallest "classics" back catalogue that ends up having the best backwards compatibility programs. I hope Sony and Nintendo follow.
Well except that Xbox is still being supported while PS2 isn't.
My biggest problem with Sony is how they treat their legacy games. Microsoft has been killing it when it comes to BC and Sony seemingly doesn't give a shit. They're going to have to do better if they want to have another successful generation.
I was referring to the 'quick' remasters they got on the PlayStation 3 instead of them being dumped as PS2 Classics. Any major PS2 game they had didn't get released as a PS2 classic.
Sony's internal division seems to play a greater role in the lack of releases. The PS2 on PS4 process seems to way heavier carried by SCEA, while on the PS3 SCEE, SCEA and SCEJ worked independent on some games. Which means that there were a lot of games, but it was heavy divided of who actually got to play them.
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I've also heard the same thing, it's usually Sony itself that handles the task of adding trophies. But there's more...
It doesn't matter whether the trophy programming is performed by Sony's team or the original development team--the point is that someone has to put in that work, meaning someone has to pay for that work. Evidently, this required additional investment of time and money hasn't succeeded in the way that Sony and their developers would have liked, because they've virtually shuttered their efforts. Meanwhile, Microsoft (with about half the user base) continues to truck along, and their efforts have received high praise from both consumers and developers alike.
Forcing developers to put in trophies/achievements (the Sony approach) = more time, more work for developers, slower releases, higher prices for consumers
Not forcing developers to put in trophies/achievements (the Microsoft approach) = less time, less work for developers, quicker and more frequent releases, lower prices for consumers
It's easy to see which method is working and which one isn't.
Is it? Not super familiar with the Xbox ecosystem, but according to Wikipedia, there have been 33 OG Xbox games made backwards compatible, with no new games added since June. In comparison there are 50+ PS2 games on PS4. I fail to see how Xbox's initiative is doing better than the PS2 one, if anything it looks like it will peter out faster than PS2 on PS4. And I can't help but notice that the same publishers, THQ Nordic and LucasArts, are over-represented in both game lists while the bigger ones are barely present. All in all it looks like most publishers simply aren't interested in either.
Ninja Gaiden Black on 1X: 4K/60/don't have to rebuy if you own it
Vice City on PS4: poorly upscaled 1080p (even on a "Pro" console), barely 30fps, buy it again cuz trophies
I would say no.
Every company has finite resources. I think the BC program is just more important to MS.
I remember Sony having BC in the PS3 and it not being much of a factor except in driving the price up. I also remember them taking it away without much flack. Possibly because everyone still had a PS2.
It just seems weird that, not in this thread, but so many threads BC is has become such a selling point. The data suggests it isn't even used very much in MS console.
I can imagine they will include PS4 BC in the PS5 because of architecture though, it would be a PR mess not to.
I do understand wanting to go back and play old games though. You can catch me playing Pac-Man and other Atari 2600 games on a physical console I had to buy, even though they are offered in the PS store now.
It just seems Sony doesn't think it's worth it to pursue this and focus their time, money in current, future plans.