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WhtR88t

Member
May 14, 2018
4,587
User banned (3 days): trolling with "lazy dev" rhetoric and inflammatory drive-by posting
I really hope competition from EGS makes Steam actually improve their app/store.

Where does Valve spend the 30% cut they take from developers? I can't imagine they spend it on actually improving Steam that's for sure. It's been the same trash pile app for like 10 years.
 

olag

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
2,106
I welcome it, and wish that publishers put games on more than just Steam when the exclusive deal is up. This gives a possibility for games to start showing up on other stores when they would probably only be a Steam game.
One company buying exclusive rights to publishing a product.......results in said product appearing on more store fronts.......even though there are multiple other store fronts on the market ignored by said developers.......because they don't have a sack of-.. ....I mean they don't offer the same benefits yea 😂

Mental gymnastics are fun especially when they only benefit the already successful.
 

Armaros

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,901
I really hope competition from EGS makes Steam actually improve their app/store.

Where does Valve spend the 30% cut they take from developers? I can't imagine they spend it on actually improving Steam that's for sure. It's been the same trash pile app for like 10 years.
So stuff like proton, universal controller support, discovery all existed in 2009?

And how does a store that doesn't even have a shopping cart and yet has store-wide sales pushing Valve to improve anything? Doesn't that tell them the opposite?
 

Alexandros

Member
Oct 26, 2017
17,811
I really hope competition from EGS makes Steam actually improve their app/store.

Where does Valve spend the 30% cut they take from developers? I can't imagine they spend it on actually improving Steam that's for sure. It's been the same trash pile app for like 10 years.

What areas of Steam should they improve in your opinion? What app do you think is the best in the field?
 

olag

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
2,106
I really hope competition from EGS makes Steam actually improve their app/store.

Where does Valve spend the 30% cut they take from developers? I can't imagine they spend it on actually improving Steam that's for sure. It's been the same trash pile app for like 10 years.
I'm not even against the lowering of the cut on all store fronts including consoles but are you seriously going to suggest that the most successful storefront in pc has stagnated and not done anything for pc gaming and Devs for over a decade?
 

Cordelia

Member
Jan 25, 2019
1,517
I really hope competition from EGS makes Steam actually improve their app/store.

Where does Valve spend the 30% cut they take from developers? I can't imagine they spend it on actually improving Steam that's for sure. It's been the same trash pile app for like 10 years.
Ah Valve is lazy rhetoric. This is the popular belief and nothing you guys here can do to change this.
 

BrutalInsane

Banned
Nov 2, 2017
2,080
What makes the EGS store more closed then lets say the Blizzard store? 'Exclusive' doesn't make much sense to me as your PC can run both Steam, EGS and any other free stores. I don't mean this as a snarky remark. I honestly don't understand much of the rage.

The Blizzard Store sells games made by Blizzard. Same with UBI, Origin (alongside Third Party games you can get from other vendors as well), so on and so forth. I have no problem with this. Epic, alongside the developers that take part in this, is taking away my choice as a consumer where I can buy the product from, look for discounts, etc. Plus, Steam offers other services i use a lot, such as the Workshop and Cloud Saves for almost all titles. So, less choice, massively shittier service from EGS.

And don't get me started on them snatching Kickstarter titles . . .

Do you play on PC?
 

c0Zm1c

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,206
I don't want this to be the future of PC gaming. So no, I absolutely do not welcome Epic's business model.
 

closer

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,167
I really hope competition from EGS makes Steam actually improve their app/store.

Where does Valve spend the 30% cut they take from developers? I can't imagine they spend it on actually improving Steam that's for sure. It's been the same trash pile app for like 10 years.

We don't know exactly what their profits are spent on, but there are a lot of good posts floating around talking about how valve spends primarily on r&d, how they provide multiple free tools (and thus less of a barrier to entry for developers), and the list goes on. It's not certain how neccesary the 70/30 split is to this end, but valve has definitely spent a lot of effort both improving steam and making the pc dev industry more of an open place.
 

UltraGunner

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,213
Los Angeles, CA
ZLQcmdTpFaJpQEvVTUxsgesj1x0=.gif
 

Ploid 6.0

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,440
One company buying exclusive rights to publishing a product.......results in said product appearing on more store fronts.......even though there are multiple other store fronts on the market ignored by said developers.......because they don't have a sack of-.. ....I mean they don't offer the same benefits yea 😂

Mental gymnastics are fun especially when they only benefit the already successful.
I'm not turning flips, but it's my hope, especially with Stadia joining the gaming market using Linux (I hope games start showing up on Linux natively and I'm glad Valve are making progress with Linux gaming in case Microsoft goes crazy again and threaten PC gaming. Also more Vulkan games). At the least with games showing up on Epic with the deal I have 2 options, and so far Epic purchases have been good, never had to deal with their customer service yet but until then at least there's the option to not have to use Steam. I would prefer Amazon (Twitch Store), GOG, or Origin (EA has awesome CS that try to help and go out of their way to make things right like Amazon).

One of the main issues people assume devs have with making games available on multiple launchers is they don't have time to port it. When it shows on Epic Store first with extra cash they should have all the time and a good amount of funds to port it to other stores than just Steam. Even if it was a Japanese dev like Square Enix which usually just dump it on steam and forget it until a Denuvo update, or a complete edition is released, which is still not likely to have a game improvement patch (Nier:A).
 
Last edited:

Deleted member 16452

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
7,276
Competition is always good.

I'm more than happy when games and developers do well, but lets not fool ourselves by thinking Epic is doing all of this in good faith, they just want to spend their way into a big marketshare.

Just like I don't put Valve on a pedestal either, they had their issues and still have many.

I'm pro developers and happy when they can get paid tho.
 

olag

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
2,106
What makes the EGS store more closed then lets say the Blizzard store? 'Exclusive' doesn't make much sense to me as your PC can run both Steam, EGS and any other free stores. I don't mean this as a snarky remark. I honestly don't understand much of the rage.
Let's talk basic economics before delving into the why some people and developers might be against EGS.

The market, well any market exists on supply and demand , this competition of suppliers to demanders results in price advantages and indirectly informs and regulates what suppliers can or cannot do. For example when Xbox/playstation push their luck in terms of pricing or other customer based needs you'll see their competitors adapt to pick up lost customers(see the great gen 8 or war of 2013).Having multiple outlets for games allows customers to gravitate to the ones who offer the greatest customer experience.

Fast forward to 2019 , Epic circumvents customer demands buy procuring exclusive rights to games. Don't agree with how they treat their employees, too bad they own certain games, don't agree with their practices, too bad they are the only supplier .......don't agree with their pricing model, too bad they are the only supplier........oh look they just took that game off the market, too bad they are the only supplier......do you see where this is going.

And before you go, well these games were only on steam, that's down to developers not releasing on other storefronts not Steam strangle holding the market by buying selling rights. If developers actually cares about the split theyd actually start releasing on ith and GOG but no this is about who's got the biggest sack of money and who gives the CEO the biggest one. What a lot of people fail to realise is that even though
Epic is playing nice with a few Indies for now, they'll eventually just stop cause either the all will have run dry or the it would be easier to just attract larger titles as it's easier right now to just attract "popular" titles.
 
Last edited:
Oct 27, 2017
4,708
The Blizzard Store sells games made by Blizzard. Same with UBI, Origin (alongside Third Party games you can get from other vendors as well), so on and so forth. I have no problem with this. Epic, alongside the developers that take part in this, is taking away my choice as a consumer where I can buy the product from, look for discounts, etc. Plus, Steam offers other services i use a lot, such as the Workshop and Cloud Saves for almost all titles. So, less choice, massively shittier service from EGS.

And don't get me started on them snatching Kickstarter titles . . .

Do you play on PC?
Thank you for the response without snarkyness or sarcasm.
I don't play much on PC you are right (occasionally an indie or 2 thats not on console). But yes i know the other stores are 1st party. But developers have every right to choose the store they wanna sell on, and i think it's not fair to be pissed at those developers. When Blizzard brings out a game on their store, you see it as normal that its on the Blizzard store. But if a small developer brings out their game on the EGS store, then lots of people attack them for their choice. This is what i personally dont understand. If it makes sense to the developer to go on EGS, who are we to argue with that.

But yes you have the right to not wanna buy any game on the EGS store.
 

Dr. Ludwig

Member
Oct 31, 2017
2,521
I really hope competition from EGS makes Steam actually improve their app/store.

Where does Valve spend the 30% cut they take from developers? I can't imagine they spend it on actually improving Steam that's for sure. It's been the same trash pile app for like 10 years.

If you're calling Steam trash then is EGS a dumpster fire to you?
 

Adamska

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
7,042
It is what it is. I do like to hear publishers constantly stating their satisfaction with the performance of their titles on Epic's store when there's a whole contingent of people hell bent on saying games won't/don't sell well there due to not being on Steam.
 
Oct 27, 2017
4,708
Let's talk basic economics before delving into the why some people and developers might be against EGS.

The market, well any market exists on supply and demand , this competition of suppliers to demanders results in price advantages and indirectly informs and regulates what suppliers can or cannot. For example when Xbox/playstation push their luck in terms of pricing or other customer based needs you'll see their competitors adapt to pick up lost customers(see the great gen 8 or war of 2013).Having multiple outlets for games allows customers to gravitate to the ones who offer the greatest customer expirience.

Fast forward to 2019 , Epic circumvents customer demands buy procuring exclusive rights to games. Don't agree with how they treat their employees, too bad they own certain games, don't agree with their practices, too bad they are the only supplier .......don't agree with their pricing model, too bad they are the only supplier........oh look they just took that game off the market, too bad they are the only supplier......do you see where this is going.
That actually makes sense yes, and i'm kinda understanding it now. So you guys would be less annoyed if the games were on both platforms and lets say EGS made all games 10% cheaper then Steam?
 

NCR Ranger

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,865
It will be interesting to see if these publishers are still singing this tune when Epic stops paying them for exclusives.

Epics heavy-handed tactics in pushing the EGS means I won't be supporting them anytime soon. With that said I expect to see more stories like this because I will be surprised if the whole things crashes and burns as quickly and dramatically as some might hope.
 

Armaros

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,901
It is what it is. I do like to hear publishers constantly stating their satisfaction with the performance of their titles on Epic's store when there's a whole contingent of people hell bent on saying games won't/don't sell well there due to not being on Steam.

Funny how the company didn't want to talk about Metro exodus's performance on Pc when it was time for quarterly earnings.

But now it's fine cause it's a puff piece on Epic.
 

collige

Member
Oct 31, 2017
12,772
That actually makes sense yes, and i'm kinda understanding it now. So you guys would be less annoyed if the games were on both platforms? I thought most of those were..?
None of them are. I think there's maybe two or three games that launched on EGS that didn't have a deal that prevented them from releasing on Steam.
 

BrutalInsane

Banned
Nov 2, 2017
2,080
Thank you for the response without snarkyness or sarcasm.
I don't play much on PC you are right (occasionally an indie or 2 thats not on console). But yes i know the other stores are 1st party. But developers have every right to choose the store they wanna sell on, and i think it's not fair to be pissed at those developers. When Blizzard brings out a game on their store, you see it as normal that its on the Blizzard store. But if a small developer brings out their game on the EGS store, then lots of people attack them for their choice. This is what i personally dont understand. If it makes sense to the developer to go on EGS, who are we to argue with that.

But yes you have the right to not wanna buy any game on the EGS store.

Agreed. For example, I was really looking forward to Mechwarrior 5. I had a choice where to buy it, but then it got gobbled up by EGS. Fine, no problem at all, but as a consumer don't expect me to shell out for it at launch, I'll wait until it's on deep discount on other storefronts when I would of bought it on release at $60. And PGI, as a struggling developer, I hope you made the right choice taking the cash up front, I know they burned a lot of bridges with their Mechwarrior Online user base with this decision. I don't see that as 'attacking them for their choice,' but rather me making a choice as a consumer on where i purchase from.

That actually makes sense yes, and i'm kinda understanding it now. So you guys would be less annoyed if the games were on both platforms? I thought most of those were..?

Yes! This is exactly it. And not both, but rather all! For example, another game I like is sold through many storefronts, and the developers website. I chose to buy it from the later to support them, and I had the option to do so.
 

olag

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
2,106
That actually makes sense yes, and i'm kinda understanding it now. So you guys would be less annoyed if the games were on both platforms and lets say EGS made all games 10% cheaper then Steam?
Pretty much, hell I'd be happy to purchase stuff from EGS if they just stopped with the exclusivity deal. That's the thing which makes me vehemently against everything EGS
 

Crayon

Member
Oct 26, 2017
15,580
I'd be so pissed if I spent two, three years making a game and then my publisher tanked my goodwill for a payout.
 

Cactuar

Banned
Nov 30, 2018
5,878
"We need to embrace a digital partner that offers a much more compelling rev share model than anybody else, and I think they act as a role model for us and for other digital partners as well--a 70/30 split is quite frankly anachronistic," he said.

People were arguing in the other thread literally 2 days ago that this had no bearing in developers decision making process. Of course I didn't believe that garbage, but it's just funny how two days later a developer comes out and agrees.
 

Cordelia

Member
Jan 25, 2019
1,517
People were arguing in the other thread literally 2 days ago that this had no bearing in developers decision making process. Of course I didn't believe that garbage, but it's just funny how two days later a developer comes out and agrees.
Publisher.

Part of the reason why Koch cut a deal with Epic for Metro Exodus was because the Epic Games Store pays more to publishers. Steam typically gives 70 percent of game revenue to publishers, while the Epic Games Store pays 88 percent.

Koch/Deep Silver is the publisher, 4A is the developer, and from what we knew, 4A didn't know this decision until it was announced.
 

olag

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
2,106
People were arguing in the other thread literally 2 days ago that this had no bearing in developers decision making process. Of course I didn't believe that garbage, but it's just funny how two days later a developer comes out and agrees.
The reason why this is suspect is because you already have stores on the pc market place which allow developers to select what cut to take........but sure lets take what the "developer"(CEO) says at face value cause obviously he has no reason to support the storefront which essentially paid his company for selling rights.

The split is fine and very good but if that was enough why arent there more companies just releasing on EGS? Why the exclusivity clause?
 

Cactuar

Banned
Nov 30, 2018
5,878
Publisher.



Koch/Deep Silver is the publisher, 4A is the developer, and from what we knew, 4A didn't know this decision until it was announced.

Well then whoever is involved in the decision making process. The fact is that cut plays a part in the decision making process, as those other elements as well, but it is not a non-factor as some were arguing.
 

XR.

Member
Nov 22, 2018
6,582
MAU is a function of retention. UA spend is only tangentially related by way of LTV but is more of a matter of scale and CPI.

A company like Machine Zone used to spend comparable amounts but never reached the same magnitude of MAU.
Again, this proves nothing. You can spend 300 million dollars on UA when your MAU is 10 users; that doesn't mean it's a good idea.

What I'm saying is none of this is needed. At all. The PC market was fine before all of this started, and is now in a worse state because the fragmentation is not making anything better. You can argue all you want regarding UA budgets, it's completely irrelevant since consumers have nothing to gain by it.

All this boils down to is people wanting more money. Not a solution to anything, or an improvement, just more money. And there's not necessarily anything wrong with that; it's just very odd when people try to defend that when they're not the ones benefitting from it.
 

Demacabre

Member
Nov 20, 2017
2,058
But developers have every right to choose the store they wanna sell on, and i think it's not fair to be pissed at those developers.

No snark. You do realize Epic has rejected an indie games that choose to release on multiple platforms. They offered money for exclusivity and when the dev denied the exclusivity, they suddenly didn't have room for them on their store at all. Epic is not really their friend.
 

Cactuar

Banned
Nov 30, 2018
5,878
The reason why this is suspect is because you already have store on the pc market place which allow developers to select what cut to take........but sure lets take what the "developer"(CEO) says at face value cause obviously he has no reason to support the storefront which essentially paid his company for selling rights.

The split is fine and very good but if that was enough why arent there more companies just releasing on EGS? Why the exclusivity clause?

It is not the sole reason, it is a factor. Even if Store B gave me 100 percent of the profits if no one's buying from store B how does that help me? That means I'm getting 100 percent of nothing. In the cases where Epic gives upfront money that is indeed a factor, but they offer a butter cut across the board and that factors in as well. The sales pitch is quite clear, "We'll give you X amount of dollars AND a greater percentage of your sales." The cut is a factor in the decision making process.
 
Oct 27, 2017
4,708
No snark. You do realize Epic has rejected an indie games that choose to release on multiple platforms. They offered money for exclusivity and when the dev denied the exclusivity, they suddenly didn't have room for them on their store at all. Epic is not really their friend.
Yeah i saw that story and that sucks i agree.
 

Siresly

Prophet of Regret
Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,580
Deep Silver is one party (and I suspect the main instigator) responsible for the Shenmue 3 snafu where Deep Silver wanted more money and convinced Ys Net that it was a good idea to break their promise to backers and make the game EGS exclusive. And after they'd involved themselves with the kickstarter campaign and backlash began, they were just like "we're not involved with the kickstarter campaign, nothing to do with us" like a bunch of fuckos.

I don't particularly care about Deep Silver's interests or whether the (millionaire? billionaire?) CEO of its parent company is happy.
Or the parent company of the parent company, which is THQ Nordic AB/Embracer.
 
Oct 27, 2017
4,708
But that's who you are championing.
Not sure what 'championing' means (english is not my main language) but i guess it means 'defend'. I'm not trying to defend EGS. I just didnt understand how people can get so upset about it. I think i kinda understand it now. i still think that being upset to a developer that goes to EGS is wrong though. And you know, it's all business.. Steam is not their friend neither or something.
 

toad02

Banned
Oct 10, 2018
1,530
Loving the free games so far.
Almost bought The End is Nigh yesterday and today I discover I will have it for free :)
 

olag

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
2,106
It is not the sole reason, it is a factor. Even if Store B gave me 100 percent of the profits if no one's buying from store B how does that help me? That means I'm getting 100 percent of nothing. In the cases where Epic gives upfront money that is indeed a factor, but they offer a butter cut across the board and that factors in as well. The sales pitch is quite clear, "We'll give you X amount of dollars AND a greater percentage of your sales." The cut is a factor in the decision making process.

The sales pitch is clear but given the middling to low success of the storefront which has existed longer than steam and most likely has a higher user base because of this which gives developers control over their profits, and the multiple indie devs flat out saying its the money up front.......you can pretty much see where the real weight of the offer is which is why people rightly dont fixate on the cut.

Curiously the other big publisher touting the cut has only been Ubisoft who've seen a massive increase in activity on their own store which they get 100% of the cut thanks to the Epic deal and these guys are still touting the cut........and even then they gave a vague allusion to valves business model being unrealistic.
 

Demacabre

Member
Nov 20, 2017
2,058
Not sure what 'championing' means (english is not my main language) but i guess it means 'defend'. I'm not trying to defend EGS. I just didnt understand how people can get so upset about it. I think i kinda understand it now. i still think that being upset to a developer that goes to EGS is wrong though. And you know, it's all business.. Steam is not their friend neither or something.

Let me ask you this. Do you think people would be upset if games came to as many storefronts as possible? And the developers made money from all those storefronts? Not being locked to one that may lack features people have come to expect? Their friendslist? Their acheivements (as petty as that is)? Linux support? Wouldn't it be better if devs could sell on all storefronts and the consumer choices where they want to buy? We kind of have the idea that indies get somewhat bullied into exclusivity at threat of not being able to sell on EGS at all.

Not many thinks any storefront is their friend. They do see one pulling some awful tactics like disrupting crowdsourced game promises and screwing up preorders though. If EGS was one of many locations a game was being sold at AND offering a better cut, I'd actually be a fan of them. Open to give them time to grow. But they aren't doing that.

The point of this is just to hopefully give you an idea why some people may think issues is more deeper than "just another launcher" or just irrational. You have your opinion and that is ok.