It depends on the context imo. And read the staff posts regarding the situation, she was also sending stuff to mod/admin and everything else. But i won't mention anything else about it.
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We need to talk about responding to Trans related issues
- Thread starter Xaszatm
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All she really did was blow the whistle. For that, she was banned for "abusing a relationship", in a thread where she was trying to call out the behavior that lead to the necessity to make the thread in the first place.
Maybe she really needed to be banned for having that access (or maybe the person who gave it to her, maybe?), I dunno it's not my site and I don't make the rules, but dropping that ban on page four of a thread about how the feelings and emotions of trans people aren't being heard or respected, especially by staff, and then pretending like the staff are the real victims here, sends a very, very bad message.
It also essentially proved correct every allegation she levied in that post, or at least made it essentially impossible for a whole lot of people to see it any other way.
I think maybe there's a bigger problem than KetKat, and that focusing on her having "inappropriate access" to a freaking Discord server isn't really the answer.
ResetERA would not exist if people hadn't stood up to people papering over objectionable behavior. That's incontrovertible fact. Whether that origin means a damn thing to us determines if this community has integrity.
If nothing else it shows the true priroties of the staff members who made the decision. (I know the staff aren't a monolith, hence the qualifier there.)
I can't imagine in what kind of context banning the person who exposes a transphobe instead of the transphobe themselves is acceptable, but okay.
If it's allowed to stand at all, it's going to show the priorities of every staff member still around after that decision.
I take issue with the notable lack of transparency the mods/admins posses contrary to the many claims of seeking transparency by site staff since Era's founding (which Kitsunelaine explained better than I could), but overall this kind of comment is more along the lines of what I would expect from transparency, instead of what amounted to "we have made our decision and this discussion is over".
Y'all have an issue with coming off like there's a presumption of "us vs. them" when issues involve any kind of tension between the team and posters. Which I can understand to a point, considering how fickle so many members here can be and certain other groups which seek to do communities here harm. But I have spent time managing people, have had jobs where I have to tell people to follow specific policy, I try really hard to understand others and be considerate to what happens in the background with y'all and still your responses by-and-large feel very patronizing and opposite of what your words claim you are doing/attempting. There definitely seems to be a curtain which any attempt to peer behind is silenced in one way or another - and I don't even mean situations as complicated as this one involving Ketkat. It's an exceptionally bad look for a site that talks itself up to the degree this one does. It gives me no confidence in personally contacting the staff over an issue I might have - I expect a boilerplate response. It gives me no confidence in pointing out an issue I have in public - I might catch a ban. I generally don't expect to see action taken on a report I send. I'm not even comfortable posting this comment tbh.
Honest question for ERA staff: which has been the greater service to the ERA community...
Spirit of the rules, peeps. Please reassure me that that is the administrative climate which prevails here?
- Ket's thousands and thousands of posts offering insight, empathy, and understanding to other posters, on issues from transgender identity, to the struggles of mental illness, and any number of important subjects? Or,
- A transphobic statement, irrespective of the "status" or popularity of the offending party?
Spirit of the rules, peeps. Please reassure me that that is the administrative climate which prevails here?
Ok, so now she's being libeled because of the mod response. She didn't post any conversations.
This is what results from protecting a transphobic moderator?
Free KetKat
I was about to say. Some strong deja vu in this thread to some bad times.
I wouldn't have starting transitioning last year without KetKat's amazing resources here. In a very real sense her contributions changed my life.
Alright this is ridiculous.
There was no whistleblowing, there was an invasion of privacy by a member taking advantage of their relationship with a former moderator to access conversations not meant for them.
No dirty secret was uncovered. The issue is that minority members of the staff have now had their privacy violated in a channel where they were supposed to feel safe.
No one would volunteer to work under circumstances where these kinds of intrusions are tolerated. Nor will it be tolerated.
There was no whistleblowing, there was an invasion of privacy by a member taking advantage of their relationship with a former moderator to access conversations not meant for them.
No dirty secret was uncovered. The issue is that minority members of the staff have now had their privacy violated in a channel where they were supposed to feel safe.
No one would volunteer to work under circumstances where these kinds of intrusions are tolerated. Nor will it be tolerated.
More like what's more important: trying to make the community a more accepting place for marginalized people or trying to maintain your sense of supremacy and control over that community.
It shows they've really lost sight of their role here when talking about how serious those supposed infractions are. What's the thing that's being said that's too private for general ears to hear exactly?
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man it would suck to be someone in charge of operations here, today. I mean, it must suck every day but also today
resetera has literally never been transparent. I've made threads to that extent before. Lots of other people have too
it's always "take it to private messages" which is borderline fascist. why are you booing? I'm right
how in the planet is "we have trans people on staff" an answer when trans people are still complaining about the efficacy of the rules? That's like saying "not only is it not good enough now, but it will never be good enough because we've already done all we can"
if you need more people on staff the hire more volunteers. but really you just need to be a lot harsher to transphobes
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resetera has literally never been transparent. I've made threads to that extent before. Lots of other people have too
it's always "take it to private messages" which is borderline fascist. why are you booing? I'm right
how in the planet is "we have trans people on staff" an answer when trans people are still complaining about the efficacy of the rules? That's like saying "not only is it not good enough now, but it will never be good enough because we've already done all we can"
if you need more people on staff the hire more volunteers. but really you just need to be a lot harsher to transphobes
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oh yeah and no quid pro quo or collusion either I bet
TransEra is a pillar of this forum and the community of Era at large.
Losing their voice would devalue the site entire.
I would ask the moderation team to reconsider and clarify their actions in this situation.
If this thread is to be one discussing the rhetoric and actions of the Era response to Trans Issues, I would've expected Era Staff to give a bit more leeway to the discussions being had by those who are effected the most by it's discussion: the Trans members of Era.
Losing their voice would devalue the site entire.
I would ask the moderation team to reconsider and clarify their actions in this situation.
If this thread is to be one discussing the rhetoric and actions of the Era response to Trans Issues, I would've expected Era Staff to give a bit more leeway to the discussions being had by those who are effected the most by it's discussion: the Trans members of Era.
Oh believe it, I can confirm all of these, personally I think it's best to just move on.
The only thing they could possibly be embarised by is being called out for things they shouldn't do. Which is exactly what whistleblowing should be.
Not only do we not know who it is, we don't really know the context beyond "A thing happened". We're flying blind, and only have Ket's original post and the staff response to it. The staff response has been fire and brimstone, and none of it has sought to address what Ket was actually talking about. It's an incredibly unsatisfactory way of communication and I feel like the staff have been a bit blindsided and are flying off of the seat of their pants. Not to excuse what's happened, I am mainly bringing this up because I think primarily that the staff need to have a step back and reassess their reaction to this situation and why it's generated the reaction that it has. They also need to I think reassess Ket's role in this conversation. I would be hard pressed to be convinced that Ket was acting in any sort of bad faith by bringing this up.
I'm confused, was Kett really banned because just because they knew about a conversation that happened in private? I don't see how this proves any sort of inappropriate access, since it's not like she quoted anything, posted screenshots, or even named any names. It came across to me like the former moderator who had access to that conversation told Ket about it, which I don't really see a problem with since it sounds like it was an upsetting conversation and they might have wanted to talk about it with their significant other?
Like, where is the proof Ket was hacking the Discord server or their SO's account or whatever? Unless the staff is choosing not to share it with us for whatever reason, there doesn't seem to be... Which means Ket was banned based on a hunch? WTF?
Like, where is the proof Ket was hacking the Discord server or their SO's account or whatever? Unless the staff is choosing not to share it with us for whatever reason, there doesn't seem to be... Which means Ket was banned based on a hunch? WTF?
So they got banned for...having evidence to the issue at hand? World class moderation there
Ket wasn't banned because of her feedback or her views on trans issues. Many of the staff have engaged with her at length regarding these issues and took her views and experiences to heart. She was banned because of her invasion of privacy into a sensitive space meant for minority staff, and the way that invasion took place. There is no whistleblowing, nor was this intended to diminish the issues at hand regarding the trans community here on ERA.
User Banned (1 Week): Conspiracy theories, ignoring staff messages, numerous previous infractions
When you know you've said something truly horrible, so horrible that if anyone discovered it you'd be ruined, you get super paranoid that people will find out about it.
So when a poster references that event, even if they name no names and mention zero specifics and there's no way it could possibly be related to you, you panic because you know they know, and at some point in the future they could attach a name to the horrible things you said.
so they ban you
So when a poster references that event, even if they name no names and mention zero specifics and there's no way it could possibly be related to you, you panic because you know they know, and at some point in the future they could attach a name to the horrible things you said.
so they ban you
I won't be leaving ERA because it is important to me in a multitude of areas and there is nowhere else I either want to post or feel free to post being 100% me, again in a variety of areas since I have multitudes and the good outweighs the bad.
That said I am extremely disappointed in the way the thread has turned and have 0 faith things will get better on this, probably will just have to fortify my stay out of Trans Specific threads rule, since it's impossible it seems for the actual trans community to lead the discussion which invariably leads to the topic no matter the original content turning into this (at least this thread was about the issue, though maybe that makes the end result even sadder) where the community just feels burned and more people do leave.
That said I am extremely disappointed in the way the thread has turned and have 0 faith things will get better on this, probably will just have to fortify my stay out of Trans Specific threads rule, since it's impossible it seems for the actual trans community to lead the discussion which invariably leads to the topic no matter the original content turning into this (at least this thread was about the issue, though maybe that makes the end result even sadder) where the community just feels burned and more people do leave.
I'm confused. Were the accusations made by Ketkat false or was she literally banned for whistle blowing and pointing out problematic behavior?
How is the latter okay?
How is the latter okay?
See, by calling attention to the "breach of privacy", the staff has made this worse, because nobody was talking about that portion of her post until it was mentioned, and now we all rightly want whoever was sending transphobic messages to be punished.
i think this is kind of an exhibit as to why some manner of feedback safe space with a no-lock-guarantee is necessary
cause i'm betting this has a couple hours left at best and any further discussion is to go to PMs with mods, which is definitely a power balance that everyone's okay with
cause i'm betting this has a couple hours left at best and any further discussion is to go to PMs with mods, which is definitely a power balance that everyone's okay with
The whistle blowing is fake, but the whistle blowing is a breach of privacy and a bannable offense. please understand.
Well if Staff closed this thread, wouldn't that just ramp it up even more?
Has the decision been made whether or not Kets ban will be permanent?
Seems like they were banned because they accessed private conversations inappropriately.
To be perfectly honest, and obviously speaking for myself only here, I kinda don't want to know. I consider the staff friends from when I was on it, and I don't want that image shattered. 🙁
Hon it might be time for bed.
Unless you know something we don't, care to share with the class?
I don't know anything, but clearly Ketkat did and the mods don't want us to know about it
So let me get this straight, supposedly "hacking" or however access was gained, into your private server, is a WORSE offense, than what was said in the that server. Now I get it. Thanks for clarification
I know things are hot right now on both sides, but I'm hoping the mod and admin team understands that we have years of experience seeing ketkat defending trans people on this very site, and this is the first time any of us are hearing about whatever this is that got her banned. And due to the nature of things, we aren't being told details of what happened. So it's clear why so many of us are on edge.
I'd also like to point how not only is the mental health thread created by her but she has actively helped people struggling who needed to be seen. This site needs more positivity and kindness. And from nonstaff prospective this does look like punishing a whistleblower. I have a lot of empathy towards the staff here but know what it is you're talking about doing here and how that appears from the community
We definitely do understand, and we don't take the situation lightly. Which is why, to protect the privacy of both Ket and the parties involved, we are not sharing too many details.
What would you say are Ket's motivations behind the posting of this information and how are you addressing them? This is, perhaps, one thing that staff are being cagey about, and is part of the reason why people are on edge.
This is a thread about how we as a community respond to trans issues. So far you've only spoken out on silencing and why you silenced. Not what you're going to do about the issues raised. The only thing you've collectively offered is a boilerplate "We don't condone transphobia". Boilerplate doesn't work in this situation.
I don't envy the moderation team's position right now and I respect how hard it is to communicate and resolve these issues. The things worth doing aren't always easy, and things like this are important to the health of this site.
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Yeah I've seen harsher bans given to people in this thread than to actual transphobe's.
I mean, we get why people are on edge. I don't speak for Ket, so I'm not going to comment on her motivations. The ban isn't about motivations, it's about actions. We are doing the best we can with the intent to be sensitive to everyone involved, but that comes at the cost of not being able to spell out every detail.
It says banned but not why banned ...first I've ever seen that . Anyone else seeing it or maybe just an issue on my end ?
We don't necessarily need to know who it is (I know I don't want to), but I can tell you that I don't feel safe knowing that someone in such a position of power in this community could possibly be a transphobic shithead.
I do understand the need for privacy in both cases, but I do hope that this situation is discussed among Staff fully (I know not everyone on Staff can be up or active at any given time). This is a community that crosses over with a great many other threads and communities, and the Trans community losing faith in moderation could lead to less Trans voices in discussions moving forward all over the site. Even if it's just one person who contributes to Era, one who feels Era not to be as open a community they once hoped, one who decided to not post here anymore, that's one less Trans voice in a GTA thread, or country music thread, or cooking thread, or etc. It's not just about the Trans voices that point out possible transphobic issues, but also Trans voices the elevate discussion about their favorite topics and give their own point of view.
I'm just a shitposting dog. If i were to get banned tomorrow for discussing a Terminator threesome in too much detail, I'd get it, ya know? Everyone would get it. Me getting banned for sommit like that wouldn't cause an uproar. But banning a member of the Trans community with a response that doesn't seem super satisfactory to that community... I just hope the Staff take this into consideration when discussing this in more detail later.
Unfortunately, issues have been raised. Hackles are in the upright position. Ket raised concerns that are relevant to a wide number of people in this community, and the only thing we have the ability to percieve is your public reaction to them. So far, the public reaction has been a banning. The ban may have been about actions in truth, but to the community at large, it also comes as a response to the issues raised.
This is because as much as you'd like for it to be seen one way, if there's a void of response, that void is going to be filled with the nearest fit. So the ban serves both purposes, wether you intend for it to or not. Until you put out something that better fits that position, it's gonna stay that way. If that makes sense.
I ain't no PR expert. I just spend too much time dwelling on these things.
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