How much d'you want to bet that the mods will ignore that sort of stuff, as they do in just about every EGS thread, and instead ban someone like myself for criticising their conduct, or lack thereof?
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We need to talk about how toxic discussing the Epic Games Store is when it comes to accusations and insults (Read OP and Threadmarks Before Posting)
- Thread starter Deleted member 42
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For what it's worth, the EGS discource on Era is definitely better than everywhere else since the reaction from a lot of other parts of the internet is "fuck you ima just pirate it". The Tencent shit has always been a racist red herring though and it's sad to see it pop up here.
It's really gross and disgusting that it's even remotely okay to talk like that.
What a disgusting response.
The topic shouldn't be banned... the discussion around it needs to be cleaned up.
What a disgusting response.
The topic shouldn't be banned... the discussion around it needs to be cleaned up.
It sucks you think we are all so beneath you :(
I guess it's not worth bothering to have conversation on this forum then?
I used to be mostly a leaker in the last but I felt that discussion in this site was possible but any time I see you post it's more or less telling people like me that our opinions are worth nothing regardless of how much I try and explain my position.
It should be ok to think its fine an Indy took epics money and also not think that epic is a good thing.
Ah so now unless you agree with epic your Gamergate level trash. Awesome. Very empathetic.
This is exactly the wrong attitude to have. It's fine to disagree and it's obviously fine to have an opinion regardless of how it's informed, but to act like BL's list, in any regard, is shitty and stupid and entitled to the point of lunacy. Slinging insults from the mundane to the violent gets nobody anywhere and adds literally nothing to the discussion.
This is why we can't have nice things.
Going off topic here but I have no issues with the individual devs either, I would 100% take the deal in their situation.
I still think its very short term and destructive for the pc landscape. Small stores like Gog and Itch will be hardest hit by Epic being prepared to sink millions into unsustainable deals
People are putting Steam's features over the game itself.
100% agreed. That does not make me a shill or entitle you to be hostile or call me names or attempt to report me for "trolling".
User Banned (5 Days): Antagonizing another member and misrepresenting their posts
Fucking truth. No one should get harassed...but at the same time I'm tired of seeing this strategy deployed, especially when it's preceded by snark and inflammatory posts. A lot of folks have legitimate reasons for not supporting EGS and it sucks seeing so many people I respected dismiss that with ridicule.
This applies to perplamp's discord tantrum too. JFC what a mess that was.
I wish the gaming community as a whole would direct all that rage and anger towards exploitative microtransactions and gambling mechanics in games instead of the EGS. Compare to this, the EGS isn't that big of a deal. It's not like EGS can exploit the vulnerable and potentially ruin a person's financial wellbeing.
That is not true at all. People have a preference, be it cloud saves, achievements, regional pricing, controller support, Linux support (so they can even play it), easy streaming, easier refund situation etc.
From what ive seen Epic discussion is definitely the worst here. Even Youtube comments arent as wild as ERA when it comes to EGS. That suits me just fine because many of the same names that dogpiled me for years on GAF for my views on Steam are the ones melting down over EGS. The cherry on top is that sometimes they use some of the same arguments i made for my Steam boycott.. the very arguments they themselves ridiculed years ago. i dont really engage any longer because of bans. So now i just have some laughs when im having dinner content that ive lived long enough to witness vindication.
User Banned (5 Days): Antagonizing another member and misrepresenting their posts
Agree with you both - harassment is crossing the line but some of this feels disingenuous when it feels like OP has posted things intended to provoke/bait in the past.
This post right here is a perfect reason why we have the toxicity that we do.
PC customers have expressed their dislike in great detail for Epic taking away customer choice on where to buy and which launcher to play on. Epic striking deals to keep games off other launchers, while completely ignoring the requests of customers to add any features to their store.
But it's all hand waved away, with the ignorant "just another free launcher" nonsense.
Posts like this exist in every single EGS thread and a lot of it comes from people who don't participate in any PC related threads, and/or have junior accounts. This is a big reason why EGS threads are as bad as they are.
I think the issue is that some people think it's okay to be toxic, if they think they're right. There's also a lot of people who don't see anything that isn't violent (or the threat of violence) as toxic.
This community has only gotten even more and more toxic. On the off topic side of things, people have gotten aggressive and attacking OPS on that board for dumb reasons such as "birthdays" so I'm not surprised.
From a psychological perspective this is because of group think and group bias, everybody in the hate EGS "group" wants to be seen and heard. The problem is it's ridiculous and we don't need to attack people to make a point.
From a psychological perspective this is because of group think and group bias, everybody in the hate EGS "group" wants to be seen and heard. The problem is it's ridiculous and we don't need to attack people to make a point.
As far as I know they are all timed.
The sustained negativity is due to the belief that Epic running what is arguably an unsustainable marketplace (by their own words) will ultimately harm both consumers and developers if (and this is only an IF) Epic decides it's no longer worth it. Mixed with people who are in fact, just petty and want it on Steam right away.
These deals require a lot of assumptions that I can freely admit I do not have the analytics to say one way or another how viable they are.
It requires enough people that are indifferent to the EGS that they will buy their games there, preferably in a quantity above the guaranteed sales # Epic offers you, as Epic may not see the next project from said dev as a worthwhile investment in the future if it's not even making that initial investment back. Who knows how willing Epic is to just throw away money (although the constant influx of "free games" is a sign that they're willing to burn a lot of cash in this endeavor).
It also requires enough people who don't want to use the EGS but are still interested in your game to still be around 1 year later when the Steam release happens to add that supplemental income, ignoring the competition from other games that will be newly releasing at that time (can your "second launch" gain the same level of mindshare as new titles?)
And if worse comes to worse, it requires enough people still interested in you as a developer in the event that Epic doesn't come back for your next project to hopefully make whatever sales target you need on whatever other platforms you hope to get on.
Tie all this in with the sentiment that EGS is meant to push Valve to "change" things, when from a consumer perspective there's nothing Valve actually needs to change (aside from curation of hateful content) that EGS is doing differently, and I take it most people see EGS as a direct attack on the health of the industry they enjoy. I don't want to see exclusivity deals permeating into the PC space. If Epic wants to fund games, it should be acquiring these studios, not just buying our the rights to their games to "starve" out their competitors when it does nothing to help consumers, without knowing how long they're willing to keep this up.
You being meta also really isn't helping things at all. Most of the people in the Ooblets thread that were warned/banned were for trolling people with EGS criticisms.
I just think the mods aren't touching this thread right now.
On toxicity.
Official Staff Communication
This is an important issue and the thread was, ironically, filled with the very kind of toxicity that the OP references. The community also has to do their part to make these threads better. No one likes how these threads turn out and because we can all agree on this fact, it means that everyone involved needs to do better. As such, we are reopening this thread. Our only hope is that this leads to these topic getting better in the future.
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There's a difference between not supporting it and what happens on this forum, you have to admit, right?
100% agree with you BronsonLee . I have no love for the Epic Games and their store and believe the practices they partake in are not good for the communities they are active in. And it is certainly inevitable that tensions will rise with these, the vitriol with which these have been received are not healthy for the community.
Death threats and verbal violence against people in these threads are simply not acceptable.
And while I hate to "both sides" shit, it certainly doesn't help when legitimate criticism of the store and its practices is dismissed alongside the violence.
we need to do better in general, admit that if something doesn't affect us it can affect others and on the other hand realise that not everyone involved in these desicions or activities (or people just not bothered by them) are responsible for a perceived slight against you.
What we need is more empathy.
Death threats and verbal violence against people in these threads are simply not acceptable.
And while I hate to "both sides" shit, it certainly doesn't help when legitimate criticism of the store and its practices is dismissed alongside the violence.
we need to do better in general, admit that if something doesn't affect us it can affect others and on the other hand realise that not everyone involved in these desicions or activities (or people just not bothered by them) are responsible for a perceived slight against you.
What we need is more empathy.
On this forum anyone who disagrees with you on many topics is at best a corporate apologist or Stan. It's just stupid and damn near impossible to have a conversation on here without my eyes rolling out of my head.
The Internet should just stop existing. Yes, EGS needs to improve. Yes, game devs have a right to choose the platform of their choice. There's no logic behind the hatred from either side. Critics of EGS shouldn't be deemed as petulant children. Supporters of EGS (and devs that decide to sign deal with Epic) shouldn't be treated like garbage. Can't we just have a normal discussion? Why is this so difficult? Antagonism and senseless vitriol only results in the gaming community becoming more secluded
It's fair to criticize idea's and actions, but don't make them personal attacks, I don't know why this is so hard for people to understand. This goes for everything, not just games. If you make it personal, you're the one with the problem, not those you're attacking.
Should be pretty easy to clean up the over the top stuff like threats and personal attacks.
But if the goal is to have folks be accepting of this method, I think that ship has sailed. With some of the late stuff where the developers are getting involved and saying some really ... wild stuff themselves that is offending their audience, I think this topic is destined to be an absolutely hugely divisive topic. Any chance of it just becoming a "thing" that folks didn't feel strongly about is dead by this point.
Im not sure that Epics intent was for this to be a quiet thing though. Looking at all those early tweets and stuff? Being a hot topic may be what they wanted. They certainly got it... that for sure.
But if the goal is to have folks be accepting of this method, I think that ship has sailed. With some of the late stuff where the developers are getting involved and saying some really ... wild stuff themselves that is offending their audience, I think this topic is destined to be an absolutely hugely divisive topic. Any chance of it just becoming a "thing" that folks didn't feel strongly about is dead by this point.
Im not sure that Epics intent was for this to be a quiet thing though. Looking at all those early tweets and stuff? Being a hot topic may be what they wanted. They certainly got it... that for sure.
User banned (permanent): trolling, attacking the community and a long history of trolling and inflammatory posting
breaking news this place is trash
Probably not the best thread, or time for that matter just after a thread cleanup to make sweeping and generalising statements. ERA has a lot of both positive and negative aspects and none of them are improved by posts like this in a thread trying to cool down tensions and improve the community.
One of the issues I've seen is that folks tend to interpret empathy as the ability to understand and share the feelings of someone who also shares your opinions or beliefs.
Oh my god. What happened!? This thread was so civil this morning with what I felt was honest and respectful discourse for at least a few hours. I come back this afternoon and it has devolved once more into "I will dominate you with wit, snark, and obvious brilliance". Jesus H. Christ, folks! CALM DOWN! If you wouldn't say something to someone in the real world, then don't say it here. Period. Simple. It's not worth it. No matter what you or the other person has to say. It's. Not. Worth. It.
OP
OP
I'm mostly happy we made it around 10 pages before things went truly off the chain tbh
Even if we fail out at least we got good discussion and reflection on it before it derailed
Just look at this gem of a tweet... and then you wonder why there is so much toxicity surrounding EGS discussion. When a high profile gaming journo that is supposed to be respectable sides with devs/publishers and insults gamers/consumers, what do you expect is going to happen?
Haven´t that choice been taken away a long time ago, possibly never existed. I can´t buy and play DA Inquisition on Steam, but I´ve never heard the amount of hate towards EGS targeted at Origin for ex.
the common argument against that line of thought(which i understand) is that those are funded by the pub, as in, the games werent taken out of anywhere else.
Competition isn't always about changing things, it's about pushing them to be better. That's not to say EGS will do that or even wants to, but historically monopolies are never better for customers long-term than healthy competition. What would the PS4 look like if the 360 didn't dominate the way it did for most of that generation? And look what happened with Xbox One when they felt like they could just coast on their install base. It was fine, but the market shift forced them to fundamentally change their focus and has resulted in awesome things like GamePass, which is maybe the single most consumer-friendly thing in gaming right now.
If the EGS goes down in flames and/or Epic pulls their money out of it down the road either because it fails to gain enough market-share or the handouts become unsustainable, what's the worst case for devs? They got to make a few games with a guaranteed cushion that maybe earned them a following and maybe didn't and they'll have to start from scratch on Steam. That's still a win for them. Not to mention Early Access makes modern PC "launches" kind of a weird thing anyways, so a "re-launch" on a new storefront wouldn't be out of the norm necessarily.
Either the EGS model will be sustainable or it won't, and if turns out to be "won't" then it'll either die or change. As a consumer you can and should use your money to vote if the trade-offs are worth it for you either now or in the future. But also as a consumer, your worst case is either playing at launch on a different device or playing on your PC but having to wait a bit. Inconvenient? Yeah. But nowhere NEAR the level that justifies the reaction it continues to get, and that's what the Jason Schreiers and Ooblet devs of the world are seeing on a daily basis, hence their snark. It's not exactly productive but it's human and I get it.
my bad, it opened in the middle of the thread. thought i read OP but read something else...
Blatent lies like "just another launcher" or "Steam doesn't do anything" don't help the toxicity though.
100% agreed. Once Epic started taking their current approach towards securing exclusives the discussion very quickly turned overwhelmingly toxic to the point where it was impossible to have a genuine discussion on the subject, that's only become worse as time has gone on to the point where I don't even bother looking in threads on the matter anymore.
I'm not the biggest fan of their approach but the discussions on the subject are just tiring.
I'm not the biggest fan of their approach but the discussions on the subject are just tiring.