This is really a bad comparison.
Boogie was talking about sympathizing racism and hate.
Bronson is talking about not attacking people and sending death threats over video games.
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We need to talk about how toxic discussing the Epic Games Store is when it comes to accusations and insults (Read OP and Threadmarks Before Posting)
- Thread starter Deleted member 42
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Boogie was talking about sympathizing racism and hate.
Bronson is talking about not attacking people and sending death threats over video games.
I've been a PC gamer all my life. The vast majority of my gaming library is on Steam. There's a lot of bad elements in the community, and has been for a long time. A lot of which is rearing it's ugly head, and coalescing around this EGS problem.
That's fair and props for trying. Perhaps you will manage to reach out to a few people and they might actually chill a bit and that would be a win.
However, the community as a whole does not have the self-control to do that otherwise this forum (or any other) wouldn't need moderators in the first place. Law is needed to keep order.
We all need to do better, yourself and myself included, but I can't even trust myself to dial it down when it gets heated. It's the animalistic nature of us as humans coupled with anonymity I guess.
Part of your interest as a consumer is wanting developers to do well so they keep making things that you enjoy consuming, surely?
Absolutely. It's not even conversation any more, just people shitting out their opinions and lashing out at whatever they disagree with.
Also the importance people place on being a "consumer".
I'm so sure of what I saw that when I was going to respond to your post it only had that first sentence, and I had to change my post after updating the page and seeing your edit on how I'm apparently "lumping you in with those that call people Hitler?".
At any case, this is really not on-topic. We shouldn't polute this thread (more).
We need to do a better job dealing with obvious trolls without acknowledging them in any way.
Report & ignore.
I totally get indie devs wanting stability, i never once got angry at them, but big publishers like Take 2 moving to EGS is very disappointing when people own so many of their games on Steam, we all know RDR2 might be EGS exclusive, oh boy im not looking forward to that backlash.
Yeah, but "crunch time" isn't really part of that equation.
You're right, I'm just not a fan of the ignore button. The day I start ignoring people en mass is the day I just leave the forum.
Why come in here and be so disingenuous about this? Why feel the need to lie?
Did you even read the OP?
Isn't this the very thing they are trying to dissuade?
That user you're talking about was banned for this:
Not in response to anything. Just jumped into a thread to troll/threadwhine. They ate a 1 day ban. 1 day!
You are exactly the problem I described earlier. Everyone who is anti-EGS HAS to be the toxic ones, and you somehow have the moral high ground of jumping in to tell us we're wrong and then go running the moment you're confronted.
Edit: You yourself have been banned for trolling EGS threads! Multiple times!!!
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Are Austin Walker, Jason Schreier, and Patrick Klepek trolls too? Because that's basically where they all landed. Painting those who don't agree with you over the severity of all this as "trolls", "schills" or worse is one those shitty tactics people are talking about.
I have no problem with the word "fuck" but these short "Fuck X" style drive-by posts should not be tolerated, IMO. They contribute nothing to the discussion and just result in an ugly look for the community. Yes, this even applies to juvenile "Fuck cancer" replies in those threads. If you don't want to spend time actually thinking of something worthwile to say then just don't post.
I think Era in general is in need of revising some rules in order to permit civil discourse. I disagree with people who consider banning EGS/Tim Sweeney discussion a solution to the problem as the hostility in EGS threads is a symptom of toxic mentality rather than the cause.
And sadly it's been like that for a while, the last time I remember it being discussed is in this thread from last year...
...but sadly since then it hasn't changed or improved at all. I think the primary reason why it is as evident as it is now in the Ooblets thread is because the initial blog post did just about anything but set the stage for a level headed discussion. It was an open invitation for exactly the mentality discussed here, and people did take up that chance.
Now to finish this, let me just say that I am no saint myself. I admit I am biased and of course this also reflects in my posts. Since I won't try to justify my behaviour, I would rather here and now offer an apology to everyone whom I potentially attacked, offended or made feel like their opinion doesn't matter. We all should strive to do better with having a civil discussion about the things we care about, and this also includes me. I am sorry.
And sadly it's been like that for a while, the last time I remember it being discussed is in this thread from last year...
...but sadly since then it hasn't changed or improved at all. I think the primary reason why it is as evident as it is now in the Ooblets thread is because the initial blog post did just about anything but set the stage for a level headed discussion. It was an open invitation for exactly the mentality discussed here, and people did take up that chance.
Now to finish this, let me just say that I am no saint myself. I admit I am biased and of course this also reflects in my posts. Since I won't try to justify my behaviour, I would rather here and now offer an apology to everyone whom I potentially attacked, offended or made feel like their opinion doesn't matter. We all should strive to do better with having a civil discussion about the things we care about, and this also includes me. I am sorry.
No ban for this flagrantly trolling post:
https://www.resetera.com/threads/oo...ames-store-on-pc.132351/page-12#post-23249070
Also this!
Important to remember that neither Epic nor Valve are saints and each have several things worth dragging them for.
Us thinking one of them is worse than the other doesn't magically absolve the other.
Resetera in general lately has been exceedingly toxic. Some of the insults, snark, aggression, and just straight hatred that i see go into some of these posts make me wonder just how far this site has fallen. Even outside of the hostile egs threads, people just seem to go into threads either with massive chips on their shoulders or are actively seeking out a fight. Maybe the world is just in a bad place right now and some people are taking out their anger on resetera, but this was supposed to be a place to have civil discussions about games and progressive politics. But lately it just feels like an online fight club. Im so sorry that happened to you op. I certainly hope those death threats didn't come from a resetera user
Since we're talking about both sides, would you consider these tweets toxic?
Anyway, what should we identify ourselves with then? Gamers?
Anyway, what should we identify ourselves with then? Gamers?
I think the choice of words is important when addressing others, think about what you've typed up and consider how you'd feel being on the receiving end of the post. Or how loaded a term actually is, I fear the internet has normalised some incredibly strong terms, even something as seemingly small as the acronym "kys" which I only found out the meaning for last month when a user here detailed a particularly tragic story.
Sometimes it's as if the terms you'd use to more understandably vent against the cruelty and/or injustice in the world are also used for game devs not doing things exactly to how you'd prefer or posters standing with an opposite viewpoint on one aspect of a game's design or development, it's kinda extreme.
Sometimes it's as if the terms you'd use to more understandably vent against the cruelty and/or injustice in the world are also used for game devs not doing things exactly to how you'd prefer or posters standing with an opposite viewpoint on one aspect of a game's design or development, it's kinda extreme.
User Banned (3 Days): Conspiracy theory, accusing members of shilling
When figures who get paid to write about games make points that seem completely disingenuous and strawman the actual objections people are raising (even to the point of antagonizing their own audience), it shouldn't be surprising that a suspicion of impropriety starts to develop. We already know Epic is splashing money around the industry to promote their poor quality product, so I think the suspicions are understandable.
I was about to post this in the other thread but that last tweet is straight up bamboozling
"Consumer" isn't akin to "gamer" as a self-ascribed term, it's just... the word. For consuming things. Whether it be food or entertainment or anything.
the UK even has a "consumer rights act" it's not like some #GamersRiseUp meme, it's got historical foundation. If we're gonna live in a capitalistic world we need a word for the people, y'know, buying the products
you don't identify as a consumer, you ARE a consumer
I think the fact that they boiled down dissidents to gamers being entitled makes me vry unwilling to label them anything but schills. I mean I have absolutely no problem with developers going to epic for money(so long as they are honst about it) , my issue is with Epic and their game store in general.
So thats my attempt as a consumer to meeting them halfway, where is theirs? Sarcastic strawman designed to belittle consumer concerns whilst ignoring issues like loot boxes. Yeah no respect.
I would. This wasn't called for at all and I'm reconsidering my opinion on Jason heavily
Are you implying Austin Walker and Patrick Klepick are paid off?
Provocative commentary like that is a big part of the problem. Sheer condescension and misrepresentation.
I like Jason's work but I think less of him for takes like this.
The internet for the most part is not a place for civil discourse anymore, and hasn't been for a while. Not sure why people would think a single message board would be immune to this. People are just dug in and want validation for their views rather than having a discussion, and i find myself guilty of this as well. Lets be real, for the most part the most vocal people have picked their side on the EGS stuff, and nobody is changing. So what really is there to discuss?
I would fucking love this.
For real EGS threads are unbearable, from both the "eww trash devs" and the "people who complain are just crybabies" posts. The posts you mentioned in the OP may be outliers, but when they're quoted 40000 times, they sure don't seem like outliers
do people really think identifying as a consumer is a good thing?
jason isn't wrong. dont construct an identity around buying things.
jason isn't wrong. dont construct an identity around buying things.
There have been a small number of posts which object to Epic on the grounds that it's owned by Tencent and there has been some racist fearmongering about Chinese spying, etc. That is awful when it happens, but I think generalizing that to imply it's a major current in EGS opposition is disingenuous.
I mean he literally stoked the flames by dismissing everyone who had an issue with the EGS, then complains the discourse around the EGS is too much.
He is 100% being toxic in this situation and refuses to understand why.
We are literally consumers and nothing else. This is such a dumb take that I wouldn't expect from Jason. Why should we as consumers care about the money developers get from Epic? That money doesn't concern us.
Thank you for making this thread.
Just yesterday, people were calling the Ooblets developers "human trash" for going with EGS.
It's disgusting.
Just yesterday, people were calling the Ooblets developers "human trash" for going with EGS.
It's disgusting.
yep. EGS threads are just the latest in a major trend of this shit. too many people on this site care more about being self-righteous and getting in sick owns on others rather than having conversations like normal people. there's no empathy, there's no ability to see any kind of grey areas, everything is a game of Good vs. Evil where the people who think they're on Team Good just want to score as many Discourse Points as possible whether that means shitting on other posters, derailing threads, etc. really hoped people would learn how fucked up this is after how the etika situation went down but if anything's changing it's not happening fast enough.
Why have any standards at all then? Buggy product? Who cares, support indies! Devs/pubs being assholes? Who cares, support indies? Game just flat out bad? Who cares, support indies!
Don't complain and don't question anything! Just spend your money so indie devs can keep their lights on!
They hate us calling ourselves consumers lol which is ultimately what we are btw. There is so much baked in fodder towards the term "gamer" it was a much more loaded term to use by EGS defenders. It was used as an insult. "Consumer" doesn't have the same effect and they sure as hell aren't going to mock consumers.
User Banned (3 Days): Conspiracy theory, accusing members of shilling
I don't know if it's specifically them but people coming out to defend Epic is highly suspect unless they're a PR person or they have been paid.
We shouldn't ever allow the corporations to have their way. We lose in that way.
This question is encouraging a toxic response. I'll decline.
OP
OP
I hope people don't think that I'm specifically talking about -all- of the discussion about this.
Like I said in the OP, it's about the outliers, the <5% threads where everyone goes too far.
If we can't handle those, we can't handle anything at all.
This forum has an Ignore Thread function. I dunno if you know it so figured I would point it out. It's a simple way of ignoring anything EGS related.PLEASE STOP CREATING NEW EGS THREADS FFS. ARGH. PLEASE CREATE AN OT AND KEEP EVERYTHING THERE. THAT IS IT. /meltdown
(and to the inevitable "well dont read them then" there's dozens of them on the front page of the forum. they're unavoidable)
So everyone who disagrees with you is paid off? Don't you realize that line of thinking is part of the problem at hand?
Their personal opinion on a controversial issue doesn't make them trolls, but the amount of effort they put into understanding the opposite opinion and the way they choose to express themselves can absolutely be considered trollish. For example:
"I understand people's concerns and issues with EGS but in my mind the benefits for developers outweigh the impact on customers": perfectly fine as an opinion and expressed in a polite and thoughtful manner.
"Oh no! You have to use a different client! Fucking gamers": 100% trolling, no matter who does it.
Consumer laws are what keep a lot of companies in check, yes it is a good thing and we *are* consumers. That is how companies view people and that is how people should view themselves.
People are not entitled to products and developers are not entitled to consumer revenue. There has to be a trade of value between the two. Thats how the consumer-producer relationship works.