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We need to talk about how toxic discussing the Epic Games Store is when it comes to accusations and insults (Read OP and Threadmarks Before Posting)

Deleted member 42

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 24, 2017
16,939
Hi. Let's have a chat.

We need to talk about how toxic discussion on the Epic Games Store is now. I mainly posted this in the Ooblets thread, but decided to break it out of there for its' own.

It's worse now than it's ever been, and it's been ramping up for quite a while. I don't forsee it getting better without communities attempting to work on stamping these things out, so I want to talk about them.

For example, in the past few months, I've seen people compare EGS and/or Tim Sweeney to:

Hitler
Genocide
War crimes
Racial trolling
a Chinese government spy agency (this one is popular)
Trump (this one too)
Gamergate

I have seen people call devs who take EGS deals:
Cunts
Whores
Thieves
Racist
Trash

On a personal level, I have had people:
Threaten to kill me (a credible enough threat that I called the police)
Try to find my house
Try to get me fired
Harass me for months
Sling massive amounts of racial slurs towards me
Call me subhuman

I don't note those last things for sympathy. I note them to show the more personal level that these things tend to go.

Flipping it around, I have seen people call people who don't want to use the EGS:
Children
Babies
Fanboys
Shills
People who should 'care more about something else' (I've done this personally, something I'm going to actively avoid doing now)

Those are all separate incidents.
Those are all separate people.

None of these things have anything to do with your PC gaming preference.
They have nothing to do with whether Valve earns their 30% cut, or whether Epic doesn't support Linux, or anything regarding technology or software.

They only exist for hate.

These outliers need to stop. They need to be called out when they happen. If they don't, the people saying these things will think that it's acceptable. It shouldn't be.

We can make our points without resorting to this level. We can express our displeasure for something without stooping this low.

We gotta do better.
 
Transistor

Transistor

The Walnut King
Administrator
Oct 25, 2017
37,125
Washington, D.C.
I agree. I may not like what's going on with the moneyhatting, but holy shit, the way people are acting is unacceptable. When it comes to some subjects, ResetEra is failing miserably at showing that the gaming community isn't a trash heap of toxicity.

It's not just the EGS discussions either. The negativity and toxicity manifests itself in many discussions. I got called an entitled dickhead for ragging on Nintendo about their birthday emails :P

Don't worry, I love you BronsonLee
 
p3n

p3n

Member
Oct 28, 2017
650
It's not outliers. It's outrage culture. It is 2019 and this happens everywhere everytime. It is also disgusting.
 
KillLaCam

KillLaCam

Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,383
Seoul
YOU DARE USE THE EGS. Why do you want to send steam to the North Korean prison camps?


But seriously I don't get why the epic store makes people freak out so much. Like yeah I'm probably not gonna buy a game that is exclusive on it, but it's not that big of a deal. It's just another store
 
LuigiMario

LuigiMario

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,933
Yep, it's getting to the point where I don't even go to threads where games get timed exclusivity on EGS. Way too much hostility. I don't like EGS, but there's ways to voice your frustration or vote with your wallet without being negative or toxic.
 
Pryme

Pryme

Member
Aug 23, 2018
8,164
Agreed 100%.

'fuck these devs', 'asshole devs' and 'trash developers' gets flung around in EGS threads and it's toxic as hell.
 
Wintermute

Wintermute

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,051
personally i think that most stuff should go in a mega-thread for EGS rather than new threads for every single piece of EGS news, and it should be heavily moderated with permabans if people can't talk without behaving like Gamers.

also sorry to hear you've had all that stuff said and threatened. that's awful.
 
Phrozenflame500

Phrozenflame500

The Fallen
Oct 28, 2017
2,132
The mass overreaction to the EGS is one of the funniest gamer moments in the past little while, if only because of how widespread it is.
 
ThereAreFourNaan

ThereAreFourNaan

Member
Nov 8, 2017
13,097
Yes, nobody should have to put up with actual abuse, and I'm sorry that you've experienced that. I've striven to be calm and patient in these discussions.
 
Odesu

Odesu

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,537
Yup. It's a fucking inferior Launcher you already have 4 of anyway you can download and install for free. That's it. It makes sense that you wouldn't like it, it makes sense you would dislike business practices behind it. But the amount of hate and vitrol such a small, utterly unimportant thing can and has lead to is completely and utterly insane. Thank you for the OP.
 
Chairmanchuck (另一个我)

Chairmanchuck (另一个我)

Teyvat Traveler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,081
China
How does the wariness of Tencents involvement (a 49% share in Epic) is just based on hate?

We are talking about Tencent, who literally helped creating the social credit system in China, is giving data from WeChat, QQ and Weibo to the chinese government and is involved into the uyghur situation in West China.


Edit: Nevertheless, before I forget it. Death Threats for such a minor thing are horrible and I feel sorry for you to receive that and can not even understand people who write stuff like that because of a game they can just play 1 year later.
 
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Costa

Costa

Member
Oct 25, 2017
533
Canada
I've seen so much toxic discourse over EGS that I've basically just stopped engaging myself. It's just exhaustive at this point.

Gamers People suck.
 
Transistor

Transistor

The Walnut King
Administrator
Oct 25, 2017
37,125
Washington, D.C.
Sephzilla

Sephzilla

Herald of Stoptimus Crime
Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,493
A lot of the stuff you're talking about is why I try to avoid participating in EGS threads these days and only read/lurk them. The fact that [SEE STAFF POST] has become a meme is pretty sad. I feel like a big part of the problem is that a certain subgroup of posters on this forum who always pop up in those threads aren't being properly held accountable for the toxic environment being created in these discussions.

Also, I had no idea the personal attacks that were sent your way though BronsonLee , that's horrible.
 
SPRidley

SPRidley

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,231
I knew it was bad, but i didnt know it was that bad.
Sorry to hear the threats you got BronsonLee

Also 100% with you.I was actually going to enter the thread with the poster that said he actually didnt hate EGS, telling that i thought the same, but thought twice and didnt do it. I suppose that thread became sadly pretty terrible also.
 
CloseTalker

CloseTalker

Member
Oct 25, 2017
30,549
Yup, I agree. It's to the point I just instantly ignore any EGS thread on here. Some of the absolute worst discussion I've seen since Era began.

And I'm sorry you've had those things happen to you, that's really shitty
 
SaintBowWow

SaintBowWow

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,082
I know the point of this thread is that both sides need to calm down but the examples of infractions in the OP make it clear who is way the fuck overreacting
 
Schlorgan

Schlorgan

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Oct 25, 2017
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AntiMacro

AntiMacro

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Oct 27, 2017
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Alberta
Wintermute said:
personally i think that most stuff should go in a mega-thread for EGS rather than new threads for every single piece of EGS news, and it should be heavily moderated with permabans if people can't talk without behaving like Gamers.

also sorry to hear you've had all that stuff said and threatened. that's awful.
Click to expand...
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Isolating it won't fix the community's problem.
 
Violet

Violet

Alt account
Banned
Feb 7, 2019
3,263
dc
I propose:

The Thunderdome


A subforum where there are no rules. If a topic on gaming-side is just untenable (say, console wars threads, whether Kojima is pretentious or not, EGS, is Breath of the Wild actually good) it gets banned and threads pertaining to that topic must be created in the thunderdome.


Also I will judge each thread personally and the loser of each argument gets banned
 

Deleted member 203

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,899
SilentRob said:
Yup. It's a fucking inferior Launcher you already have 4 of anyway you can download and install for free. That's it. It makes sense that you wouldn't like it, it makes sense you would dislike business practices behind it. But the amount of hate and vitrol such a small, utterly unimportant thing can and has lead to is completely and utterly insane. Thank you for the OP.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
There are credible reasons to fear for what the future looks like for the PC gaming scene as a result of Epic's strategy, if successful, and I don't think that's unimportant. But the discourse around it makes it very hard to separate the good arguments from the bad faith ones (CHINESE SPIOES!!!). And a lot of the anger is misplaced (don't blame struggling indie devs for taking Epic's money, for example).

The tone and tenor of discourse online has just reached a nadir where there are only extremes and people aren't so much having a discussion as yelling into the void.
 
benzopil

benzopil

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Oct 25, 2017
4,150
Chairmanchuck said:
How does the wariness of Tencents involvement (a 49% share in Epic) is just based on hate?

We are talking about Tencent, who literally helped creating the social credit system in China, is giving data from WeChat, QQ and Weibo to the chinese government and is involved into the uyghur situation in West China.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Maybe because there's no involvement


And before someone says that he's a liar I would like to see a proof, because otherwise his words are more believable than whatever someone else wants to believe
 
MJForum Poster

MJForum Poster

Member
May 25, 2019
6,025
London
The EGS situation feels like the culmination of a lot of momentum that started back with the Mass Effect 3 ending in 2012.

For some reason, the gaming community has a hard time calmly criticizing things they don't like it. Instead, they have to be turned into "this is the worst thing ever" flavors of the week. Youtubers exacerbate this with their hyperbole and manufactured drama as their livelihood depends on it.
 
krg

krg

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,901
LuigiMario said:
Yep, it's getting to the point where I don't even go to threads where games get timed exclusivity on EGS. Way too much hostility. I don't like EGS, but there's ways to voice your frustration or vote with your wallet without being negative or toxic.
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My thoughts exactly. I see an EGS thread and I avoid it like the plague.

I REALLY hope the moderation team start taking action because this is getting out of hand and Era will inevitably be considered a toxic place.
 
Bunkles

Bunkles

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Oct 26, 2017
5,663
Chairmanchuck said:
How does the wariness of Tencents involvement (a 49% share in Epic) is just based on hate?

We are talking about Tencent, who literally helped creating the social credit system in China, is giving data from WeChat, QQ and Weibo to the chinese government and is involved into the uyghur situation in West China.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

What kind of data do you think Google, Microsoft, Apple, etc have shared with the US and other governments over the years? Why the fearmongering over Tencent as the 'big baddie' and assume Tim Sweeney is just opening Epic's database for Tencent to see your game collection and CC info?
 
m_dorian

m_dorian

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,403
Athens, Greece
A point has been reached where no proper discussion can be made and arguments are been repeated again and again because there are many posters who persist to argue in bad faith.
We all have made mistakes though that very dividing topic ( you too OP) mostly because people try to win the argument rather than understand it.
It had showed me that many people here display a huge lack for empathy ( to the consumers and to the developers alike) making almost any such discussion insufferable.
I love many moments I had on this forum in the past but for some good months my appreciation here sadly declined.
 
Serious Sam

Serious Sam

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,354
Honestly I've mostly seen well deserved constructive criticism on this topic. If anything, it's pro-EGS evangelists who've been ridiculing Steam and suddenly "not knowing" Steam's feature set.

There will always be these certain individuals who swear a lot, this is the internet after all. But they are in minority.
 
Chairmanchuck (另一个我)

Chairmanchuck (另一个我)

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Oct 25, 2017
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Schlorgan said:
So are you going to boycott movies that Tencent finances as well?
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I am saying that people are wary about the involvement arent racists or that they should not be told "dont worry".

benzopil said:
Maybe because there's no involvement


And before someone says that he's a liar I would like to see a proof, because otherwise his words are more believable than whatever someone else wants to believe
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

That doesnt mean that people can not be wary of that.

Their biggest shareholder is Tim Sweeney himself, after that its just Tencent, who actually is engaging in a system to oversee citizens, gives data to the chinese government for dissidents and "unwanted" people. I am not saying Tencent does it with Epics data. I am saying people can at least be wary about it.
 
PeterVenkman

PeterVenkman

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,770
I'm actually really glad you posted this thread.

I noticed a crazy huge thread about Ooblets, a game I'm excited about. I saw all of the dev posts and thought to myself that, honestly, I didn't see anything wrong with their decision. And yet it's somehow acceptable in that massive thread to call the devs "Human Trash"? Like what the hell is going on?
 
Camjo-Z

Camjo-Z

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,504
benzopil said:
[READ STAFF POST]
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

At this point "(see staff post)" is just code for "this thread is guaranteed to be a shitshow, keep your distance".

Violet said:
I propose:

The Thunderdome


A subforum where there are no rules. If a topic on gaming-side is just untenable (say, console wars threads, whether Kojima is pretentious or not, EGS, is Breath of the Wild actually good) it gets banned and threads pertaining to that topic must be created in the thunderdome.


Also I will judge each thread personally and the loser of each argument gets banned
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Oh, come on. Can't we just get beyond Thunderdome?
 
Wintermute

Wintermute

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,051
AntiMacro said:
Isolating it won't fix the community's problem.
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it's not even about isolating it, i just dont want to see a dozen different EGS threads on this forum every day every time a developer tweets something. Like in the last few minutes a new thread has popped up about a tweet by Rami Ismail. Does that really need its own thread. Stick it in a megathread, give us some sanity.
 
DoradoWinston

DoradoWinston

Member
Apr 9, 2019
6,109
Yup discussing anything epic related is just an absolute mess and is honestly not worth anyone's time at the moment.
 
Uzzy

Uzzy

Gabe’s little helper
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Oct 25, 2017
27,086
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Actual threats of that nature are obviously too far, and people doing those should rightly be banned and reported to the police.

Insults and glib comparisons don't help discussions and should be avoided.
 
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