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ChrisP8Three

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,006
Leeds
thanks for the thread Mama, just a shame its so depressingly true. That said i retain hope that in an era where a game like God of War, dealing heavily in mythology can do so well that we could see one, or hope SE are so inept that they sell the franchise to someone who will do it the justice it deserves
 

IsThatHP

Member
Oct 31, 2017
1,033
Made my peace long ago with this fact. If nothing else, at least Defiance actually serves as a somewhat satisfying ending to the tale, even if it leaves so much unsaid. I personally think a Blood Omen remake, on a digital platform could be credible...hey maybe with our streaming future it can even be episodic.


btw, I was super into Nosgoth when it came out, even had friends playing it with me, I thought it was an excellent game even if even when it was churning and burning it was kind of obvious it had no future. Fuckin' scouts.
 

Skyball Paint

Member
Nov 12, 2017
1,667
Consider this, though:
someone brought Bubsy back

"The descent destroyed me...and yet, I lived"

Bubsynew.png
 

LinkSlayer64

One Winged Slayer
Member
Jun 6, 2018
2,290
I have to hold out that it will rise again. It is one of my favorite series of all time.
 

Deleted member 21411

Account closed at user request
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
4,907
I would settle for square allowing fans to make remakes. I've given up on the series coming back but itll always have a place in my heart
 

medyej

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,421
Great thread Mama Robotnik. Good to see you still doing these.

I yearned for a new LoK for many years, especially during the era that I thought Crystal Dynamics was 'primed' for it around when TR Underworld released. I figured they had just done 3 TR games and improved a ton in both tech and design, so the time was right. But alas they went on to do the modern Tomb Raider games, and now work on Avengers.

What's so weird about there not being LoK anymore is that many publishers would kill for a video game universe as rich and deep as LoK's. It's really ripe for having an entire series of games and other entertainment in, it just needs that one breakout hit to the mainstream. I guess that's what they expected Dead Sun to be. I consider Nosgoth to be one of the finest video game worlds out there, it's just so under utilized.

In the end I'm kind of happy now where we are, because at least we got a great series that is still fairly replayable and hasn't had it's legacy ruined (yeah BO2 aint great). Even if LoK never comes back the saga from Blood Omen through Defiance will still be an all time great in video games.
 

Timppis

Banned
Apr 27, 2018
2,857
Thank you this was great read.

Also. Sad that the IP is effectively dead. Until when in some far distance someone remakes it for the nostalgia.
 
Oct 26, 2017
6,261
Good Elder god I love this series.

Excellent thread and write up - didn't even know about a couple of those cancelled titles. It's a shame SE have it.
 

I KILL PXLS

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,520
I'm still sad Nosgoth got cancelled. I realize why fans of the franchise never gave it a chance, but on it's own merits it was a pretty solid game on top of being unique even to this day. Unfortunately there's nothing else out there like it today that I'm aware of.

On a separate note, I feel like if we ever get another game in the franchise, it will be an isometric game harkening back to the original.
 

Ushay

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,347
Amazing OP, enjoyed reading. Was a blast of nostalgia.

I will say Legacy of Kain deserves the full AAA reboot treatment. Its a crying shame it never received it, instead of the half hearted attempts that effectively buried the IP.

Easily one the best series of all time for me.
 

dantevsninjas

Member
Oct 27, 2017
518
Owned Blood Omen before I ever played Diablo. Thought it was such a fantastic game. Never really played the other titles, rented "Blood Omen 2" without knowing much about it based on my appreciation for the first title.

Boy was I disappointed.

Honestly? I don't think anyone other than maybe Dyack can really do the lore justice and no one wants to work with him.

OP should look into Deadhaus Sonata, Dyack's spiritual successor to Blood Omen. I don't have high hopes, honestly.

Dyack was only involved in the first game; while Silicon Knights laid all the groundwork and background, it's really Amy Hennig who built the ongoing storyline. I think it'd be harder to do without her involvement than Dyack's.

I'm not holding my breath at this point. It'd be nice to see the story continue (read: get finished), but it's probably not going to happen. I think the best case scenario we'd see at this point is a reboot of the whole series if SE ever decides to do anything else with the IP, but even that seems highly unlikely.
 

House_Of_Lightning

Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
5,048
Dyack was only involved in the first game; while Silicon Knights laid all the groundwork and background, it's really Amy Hennig who built the ongoing storyline. I think it'd be harder to do without her involvement than Dyack's.

I'm not holding my breath at this point. It'd be nice to see the story continue (read: get finished), but it's probably not going to happen. I think the best case scenario we'd see at this point is a reboot of the whole series if SE ever decides to do anything else with the IP, but even that seems highly unlikely.


Fair point. I always assumed she was the more specific lore stuff while Dyack was more about crafting the "ambiance". I attributed those qualities to him due to Eternal Darkness.
 

Necron

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,281
Switzerland
Mama Robotnik thread? The day is saved!

It's a depressing read but an honest one. I think it'll never come back, unfortunately. Unless an indie development studio approaches Square with a strong pitch, I guess. Whatever that means...
 

Mifec

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,731
I selfishly want a new LoK just so Hennig could finally write a good game again. It's been 16 years.
 

Dreavus

One Winged Slayer
The Fallen
Jan 12, 2018
1,725
I have to admit, I adore these series thread but I have no idea where or how to start with the series. I'm guessing a YouTube play through would do it no justice, right?

I mean tony jay was one of my favourite all time voice actors so I should probably check out this series.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,407
One of my favorite franchises of all time, really good read OP.

They should make a kickstarter to prove if people are really interested on it, like they did with shenmue 3
 

dodo

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,996
I know it's not the same, but I think the best hope for this franchise is some kind of spiritual successor. I think it's way more likely we get some sort of heavily Kane-inspired indie or B-game, and honestly I think that's pretty exciting
 

Slim

Banned
Sep 24, 2018
2,846
Probably my favourite OP on Era. I made peace with the conclusion long time ago. Dead, but not forgotten. It's just a shame as to how many games got cancelled outta nowhere. Even more ridiculous considering the amount of cut content in SR.
I have to admit, I adore these series thread but I have no idea where or how to start with the series. I'm guessing a YouTube play through would do it no justice, right?

I mean tony jay was one of my favourite all time voice actors so I should probably check out this series.
A Youtube playthrough would be a good way to start. I occasionally watch story bits just for that nostalgia. The story, voice acting, world... still the best out there.
 

Genesius

Member
Nov 2, 2018
15,478
I think they could maybe pull off a full reboot at this point. Doing a straight up sequel seems like a bad idea, considering how niche the series became and how long it's been gone.
 

Mars People

Comics Council 2020
Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,181
I don't understand why they continually made games and then cancelled them after years of development.
Losing millions of dollars. It makes no sense.
 

Thera

Banned
Feb 28, 2019
12,876
France
Remember playing the demo of one of them on PS2. But I didn't like the artstyle and especially dislike the chara design of the main. So it was a pass for me at that time (I was young so probably bought 2-3 games a year, I had to choose carefully)
 

Taker34

QA Tester
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
1,122
building stone people
I don't understand why they continually made games and then cancelled them after years of development.
Losing millions of dollars. It makes no sense.
It's not like they've cancelled those games just weeks before completion. They most likely came to the conclusion that losing their initial investment would still be more beneficial than releasing a failing product. After all you have to pay for the rest of the development time (which can include delays) and of course an immense amount of marketing costs.
 

XDevil666

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,985
If Microsoft really wanted a IP which could go toe to toe with God Of War this is the IP they could buy and put the right team to work!
 

MrBS

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,217
Legacy of Kain was something, I played the orginal on PS1 at launch and fell in love, I followed the whole series birth to death. At least we got an ending in the last game that set up the inevitable showdown, no catharsis but something at least.
 

AuthenticM

Son Altesse Sérénissime
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
30,014
How would fans of this franchise feel about getting a spiritual successor instead? Something like how Bloodstained is another Castlevania. Maybe that would be the best thing to hope for.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,407
How would fans of this franchise feel about getting a spiritual successor instead? Something like how Bloodstained is another Castlevania. Maybe that would be the best thing to hope for.
Not sure if that would work, the story is part of the main appeal, spiritual successor are usually about gameplay.
So a reboot may welcome as well, but it will be really hard to appeal the fans with it.
 

Tiggleton

Banned
Apr 25, 2019
457
I read the entire post, OP. Great work; you made a wonderful thread.

As a youngster I remember seeing ads for Soul Reaver in magazines and really wanting to play it, but I never did. I guess I never will properly experience this series.


As someone who earned their living for four years as a writer and editor, I completely disagree. Also... Did you really wade through that incredible OP just to make a drive-by criticism? What the hell.

No, I read the post. Agreed with it but had a hard time doing that because the quotes were too obnoxious. If you think that's okay I'd hate to see your professional work as an editor.
 

arglebargle

Member
Oct 26, 2017
972
I've tried several times to get into this series but struggle with the first one. I am pretty open to playing old games but it really feels antiquated. I'd love a remaster, but seems hopeless.
 

Taker34

QA Tester
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
1,122
building stone people
I've tried several times to get into this series but struggle with the first one. I am pretty open to playing old games but it really feels antiquated. I'd love a remaster, but seems hopeless.
I think the beauty of the series is how different each game is. You can start with any game and still appreciate the whole narrative. If you dislike Blood Omen, Try Soul Reaver. Maybe you want it even simpler, so try Blood Omen 2. Back in the day I didn't even realize that BO2 and SR are games in the same universe.
 

Mentalist

Member
Mar 14, 2019
17,971
Not sure if that would work, the story is part of the main appeal, spiritual successor are usually about gameplay.
So a reboot may welcome as well, but it will be really hard to appeal the fans with it.

I would probably enjoy a spiritual successor to Soul Reaver, because that game was the most interesting gameplay-wise.

The story didn't really become the driving force until SR2 though, and that's what ended up defining the series (by going back and linking directly with Blood Omen into a single arc- while Soul Reaver on its own felt more of a reboot and less of a sequel at first).

I think that's the other big problem we don't really speak about- the games didn't really have an established gameplay formula beyond the loosest "action adventure" genre. The specifics kept changing every iteration as Crystal Dynamics struggled to find a formula that worked. I'm gonna voice a probably unpopular opinion that Soul Reaver 2, while having easily the best Story (with a capital S) out of any games I have ever played, is a total slog of a game when it comes to combat and the majority of puzzles. Even the much-maligned Blood Omen 2 does a better job in gameplay department (I'd rate the games' playability as BO1-SR1-D-BO2-SR2). This was probably another reason why the series was never a breakout hit- because it lacked a core set of gameplay mechanics to back up its transcendent story. Brazil's ability to shift in the Spectral Realm, was a core element on SR1, but then in 2 due to its more linear nature it became the Elemental Reavers acting as coloured keys. Blood Omen 2 actually had a very solid, if simple combat system based around blocks, hits and dodges for the few un-blockable attacks- it wasn't fancy, but it worked, while progressively upping up the puzzle complexity as you gained more abilities from killing bosses and progressing the game; then Defiance tried a kitchen-sink approach, throwing in aerial moves, weapon combos unlockable as you "leveled up" your Reaver; and "devil trigger"-type ultimate moves. It was a fun and flashy system with fancy and gory finisher move animations that was a ton of fun to use; but ultimately it was still a derivative of many other systems from established franchises that just underlined how schizophrenic the gameplay of the LoK series really was.

In fact, we already have a spiritual successor, a flashy, gothic action-adventure series with a convoluted as fuck lore that has a cult following but didn't set the world on fire with sales. It's called " Darksiders"
 

sora87

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,860
They'd have to reboot it if it ever came back right? Looking at how much story and lore there seems to be and the fact it's been 15 years i don't know how they'd sell it otherwise.
 

flyinj

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,940
Crystal Dynamics has a lot of great ideas that they literally are unable to revisit, as I hope I've made clear with my numerous in-vain requests for a remake of Walt Disney World Quest: Magical Racing Tour

If you are being serious, that was made by Toys for Bob when they were a "subsidiary" of Crystal Dynamics.

So it could happen!
 

Brinksman

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,180
How would fans of this franchise feel about getting a spiritual successor instead? Something like how Bloodstained is another Castlevania. Maybe that would be the best thing to hope for.

As the other user mentioned, Darksiders is out there, but fails to scratch the same itch, especially on the more literary side. Indeed, the Dead Sun reboot they canned was also really a spiritual successor in all but name (borrowing a few themes and concepts but effectively inventing its own weird disconnected mythos).

It's so old that you already need to redefine the gameplay. Anyone invested is simply curious to see what happens next for Kain, one way or the other.
 
Oct 27, 2017
6,348
Come to think of it, where the story left off in Defiance could still be a good point for soft rebooting the whole thing, depending on how long the original story was supposed to go on.
 

Mr_Antimatter

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,571
I'm surprised they got no credible pitches for a new entry on the indie scene. I mean Fear effect got one, for what it was worth.

Just seems like no one with the chops to make a solid Kain game is interested, probably because they are busy doing their own IP.

Part of me still hopes we get a new game, even if it's a Kain 1 style top down game funded via kickstarter, so long as the gameplay is fun and the story up to par.
 

Garlador

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
14,131
Remake it. It's time.

Keep the story and voice acting and remake the the rest. It's the best way to reintroduce players to gaming's best dark fantasy epic.
 

Syril

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,895
I think the beauty of the series is how different each game is. You can start with any game and still appreciate the whole narrative. If you dislike Blood Omen, Try Soul Reaver. Maybe you want it even simpler, so try Blood Omen 2. Back in the day I didn't even realize that BO2 and SR are games in the same universe.
To be fair Blood Omen 2 as it was didn't even make sense in the same universe, and it was only thanks to Defiance and the end of Soul Reaver 2 going out of their way to make it fit that it works at all, and even then it's in more of a broad strokes sense.
 

Fredrik

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,003
Don't give up yet! Shadow of the Beast was revived, Legacy of Kain must have a bigger chance than that.
 

Gabbo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,564
I remember trying Legacy of Kain on gametap when it was one of the free titles. Besides barely working, it was interesting but i didnt have enough time to put into it due to university.

Thats my only real contact with the franchise, though the Soul Reaver titles on gog have occasionally come to mind. A new entry, digital release, or a remaster would do wonders to actually get me into the series, as I hate starting in the middle as Soul Reaver essentially would be.

A sad, but good write up Mama, like always.